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The moon's gaze, obscured The clouds coming and going Life, Death, is like that

singing a sad song, bare maple branches shiver; the moon's gaze, obscured.

Did you know Neidan is a form of Qigong? The people in the west could never distinguish the two.

Yes! I would add to this that "intent" is important... what it is you want to get out of it and who that is for, and what damage might be the fallout. I watched to movie over the weekend, and I am inclined to agree with Barford - it DOES illuminate much of what I have seen about magick, but even more the BASICS of it. In my case, I had already had few years of visions, (including things some might characterize as the "dead", or "demons" (not that I believe in them in that way) and then in summoning the HGA an encounter very much in the flavor of the movie, though not the same."My" HGA was a very different affair, but had the same amazing realism, etc. Later I had the appearance of other Christian characters (I am NOT a Christian) that were MUCH more like the movie - gold breastplates and armor, the size/scale, etc. I understand why Barford says he teared up seeing this scene - it gets it right. Honestly, this part seems impossible to me... a complete delusion. None of these things exists as a truly separate thing to command in my experience, and IF the HGA is commensurate with "stream entry" in Buddhism, anyone what saw it would KNOW that, or come to realize in a short time. My first thought about this was, if HGA conversation IS the same as "stream entry", why would you bother what what I would think of as a very worldly practice like trying to manipulate other beings or people? Ngondro is a clearing, and becoming familiar with the path. It digs up the stuff you have been avoiding dealing with.. BUT it actually has the whole path in it and could enlighten you itself. The famous Dudjom Rinpoche of the Nyingma tradition (the Buddhist tradition I worked in primarily) did it even AFTER his enlightenment, and until his death.

Thank you very much for pointing me the right direction.

when ripe, the fruit falls full soft pear and satsuma juice, lips, tongue, sweet now.

Life, Death, is like that why collect if not to give when ripe, the fruit falls

... which leads me onto ...... why do it all in the first place ? Try , from 30:00 onwards below ( the more I hear these guys talk, the more I want to listen to . many interesting points are discussed in the whole video - and show some 'east meets west' traditions and work .

@Nungali This song was probably written by one of those former little catholic kids -- just the way they heard it. I think it's brilliant, phonetically and poetically.

Hi Sawan . How were you 'in ' ceremonial magic ? Did you practice it and if so what ; what forms or rites or rituals did you do? Was the astrology used in conjunction with that ( to decide 'when' to specific rituals or processes ) or for other purposes ?

Welcome! Please do!🙏

Hi. Welcome to the forum.

Yes ... I mean a Wednesday ? save it for the weekend surely. I think the demon thing is possibly ok. I haven't read it yet but I can see the logic of, if you like solidifying the HGA by addressing the worldly powers. It makes sense and many parallels in say the Kalachakra tantra and so on. It's the magic squares that I don't get ... and suggest that this is just ann add on from someone's grimoire. (?) i.e. not directly relevant to the main work. Although I can see that in magic you do have to test its efficacy or its could all just be subjective mind tricks. Yep ... maybe. The translation of ngondro as preliminary is a bit misleading. Perhaps 'foundation practices' might be better. They are not just something you get out of the way before the heavy lifting starts. In fact in a lot of ways they are the heavy lifting. They are a practice in themselves which doesn't really end at completion. Although I've done the 100,000 of this and that ... I still do them. The guru or lama is in some respects your actual teacher .. but equally it is your buddha nature and the dharmakaya itself. The more I think about it the more hermetic the vajrayana seems (though perhaps not as taught these days in the west at least). I have had as much teaching in dreams and direct inspiration from vajradhara as I have had from my actual teacher (who I have not seen in years).

Yes, it does translate to metaphysics. 玄: dark, deep, hidden, or mysterious. 学: study, learning, or a field of knowledge. Historically, 玄学 also refers to a Chinese school of thought from the Wei–Jin period, and a scholastic approach to earlier Daoist texts. So our ability to determine whether all discussions of the Dao are "xuanxue" depends on which definition we use. Metaphysics is the study of the unseen, unknown, the mysterious. It is the study of the underlying fabric of reality. So all study of the Dao is literal 玄学. But the idea that the Dao is emptiness and ziran is the expression of this emptiness (the original inquiry of the thread), is strongly developed from the historical, scholastic 玄学 movement. This view influences much of how we discuss the Dao in modern context. Before the Wei–Jin 玄学 movement, Daoist discussion was framed less as an exact, comprehensively designed system, and more like guidance for living, governing, and cultivating life. As you know, in early texts like the Daodejing and Zhuangzi, the Dao is usually pointed to through images, paradox, and lived examples. You get lines like “the Dao that can be spoken is not the constant Dao,” or stories that show how forced control backfires. The focus stays on how to move through life: wuwei (not forcing), softness, timing, simplicity, protecting your vitality, and letting patterns unfold. Even when they use words like 无 (wu), it often works like “the generative absence that makes functions possible” (like the empty hub of a wheel, or the empty space in a bowl), rather than “emptiness” as a full metaphysical theory. And 自然 (ziran) reads more like “so-of-itself” or “things unfolding on their own,” not “the expression of emptiness." But the Wei–Jin 玄学 approach shifts the focus. It takes those earlier Daoist lines and tries to make them philosophically exact and defensible, which are later blended with Buddhist concepts: debates about 有/无 (being/non-being), what is “root” (本) and what is “branch” (末), and how a deeper “source” relates to the visible world. Commentarial reading becomes a major method, and the Dao starts getting discussed in more systematic, abstract terms–often as the underlying “non-being” that grounds “being,” with ziran framed as how that ground shows up in the world. That scholastic style is a big reason modern discussions of Dao define it as emptiness. So 玄学 describes the study of the unknown, and it also describes a historical movement that sought to define the unknown in exact, and yet paradoxically more abstract terms.

Nagajuna's shunya and Xuanxue match quite closely and in a way Wang Bi and his school paved the way for an easy entrance for Buddhism into China. I wonder how different Daoism would be without Xuanxue? Can we ever know?

If you have 100% dedication and confidence in the teachings, then every living situation can become part of your practice. You can live your practice, not just do it. (с) Karmapa XVI Rangjung Rigpe Dorje No matter how many wise words you read or speak, what good are they if you don't put them into practice?! (с) Buddha The classical definition states: "Magic is the science and art of aligning reality with the will of the practitioner," and we have neither the right nor the reason to dispute it. However, we should ask ourselves: If we were to journey toward our own fundamental principles, toward the origins of our Will, what would we discover there? And there, we would perceive an aspiration for happiness, a drive for growth, a longing for freedom and awareness. These are the foundational attributes of our consciousness. Therefore, it can be stated that Magic is the Way of evolution and liberation of consciousness, a journey to diminish its conditioning, to transcend limitations, and to break free from dissatisfaction. Our will is not petty whims or caprices, nor the impulses of a wounded child. Our will is the creative bedrock of the Universe, thus Magic is the Way of Freedom and the Road of Creation. (с) Enmerkar

LDT breathing is the key to all Qigong method. In Chinese term, Qigong, 气功, is the method of breathing. If you used other definition for Qigong. Good luck in you achievement. BTW The Chinese Taoist had defined LDT breathing for Neidan as follows: LDT breathing is done with reverse breathing. Of course, the normal breathing has to overcome in perfection first. Then, perform the reverse LDT breathing, hereinafter, doing the Neidan practice.

Yes, air is a very important element. In TCM, It was considered to be a postnatal qi. It is the main source of external qi to make Neidan work for you. It provides oxygen to your body. Please keep this in mind. That is the key to success of Neidan practice.

The Neidan Qigong method will do the job for you. FYI Any kind of Qigong will do if the LDT breathing was involved. However, Neidan was specially emphasized for cultivating Prenatal Qi. Please follow the discussion about Neidan on the Forum.