Transgender Q&A

[snowymountains]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

The right totally manipulates Christians into voting for them. This is why the evangelicals act like Trump of all people is the second coming of Christ lol. 

 

Melania then is Marry Magdalene I presume? 😂 😂 😂 

Edited April 15 by snowymountains

[Sahaja]

On 4/13/2024 at 11:38 PM, Nungali said:

I could not find the map on line  I was thinking of, it is in a book I have .  But I found this ;

 

 

 

https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/

 

 

About 18 years ago visited a  temple in rural Myanmar with my family that had ceremonies led by what appeared to us as transgender “priest/priestess” mediums.  Dance and music were a big part of the ceremony. The local people attending (the vast majority in attendance) appeared to treat the mediums with a great deal of seriousness and respect.  In our personal interactions with the mediums they were very open, light hearted/quick to laugh,  and were kind to us offering to pray for our daughters’ then upcoming school exams. 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Maddie said:

Thought I would share another thought I have. To me what is interesting/baffling about the transgender issue is the strong reactions and feelings it brings out in people. I don't really understand it. 

 

Well, in my experience ,, gender is a line with male one end female the other , VERY few people are on the extreme points. But in some cultures and societies , they seem obsessed with extremes ; you are  either one or the other , on many levels .   So if your 'natural state ' is in conflict with supposed ideologies then those that hold to those ideologies, or have been brain washed by them , may feel threatened .  Or they might feel threatened by  you ..... upsetting the apple cart , so to speak .

 

Then, there is all this .... I am sorry .... BULLSHIT  about 'being a man '   and what that means to some  and how that is threatened in a similar process .

 

" You say I aint been a man ! ?  ...   thems duelin' words !

 

and I will add that concept  is really suffering and failing  ! I went to a men's workshop and after listening dumbfounded for half an hour I had to ask ' Who thinks they have been through a process or even that  made them  a man , or some transition in life where you thought now I am a man - purely under your own definitions' .  Less than half the hands of the group went up . I asked the others 'do you know what it means or what the term is describing 'to be man ' , again, less than half .  So near 1/4 of the men present did not even have a definition of what it means . ... even to them !

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

The right totally manipulates Christians into voting for them. This is why the evangelicals act like Trump of all people is the second coming of Christ lol. 

 

 

Wait ..... doesnt 'the anti-Christ'   come first

 

 

[Apech]

18 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Well, in my experience ,, gender is a line with male one end female the other , VERY few people are on the extreme points. But in some cultures and societies , they seem obsessed with extremes ; you are  either one or the other , on many levels .   So if your 'natural state ' is in conflict with supposed ideologies then those that hold to those ideologies, or have been brain washed by them , may feel threatened .  Or they might feel threatened by  you ..... upsetting the apple cart , so to speak .

 

Then, there is all this .... I am sorry .... BULLSHIT  about 'being a man '   and what that means to some  and how that is threatened in a similar process .

 

" You say I aint been a man ! ?  ...   thems duelin' words !

 

and I will add that concept  is really suffering and failing  ! I went to a men's workshop and after listening dumbfounded for half an hour I had to ask ' Who thinks they have been through a process or even that  made them  a man , or some transition in life where you thought now I am a man - purely under your own definitions' .  Less than half the hands of the group went up . I asked the others 'do you know what it means or what the term is describing 'to be man ' , again, less than half .  So near 1/4 of the men present did not even have a definition of what it means . ... even to them !

man up nungali 

[Maddie]

20 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Well, in my experience ,, gender is a line with male one end female the other , VERY few people are on the extreme points. But in some cultures and societies , they seem obsessed with extremes ; you are  either one or the other , on many levels .   So if your 'natural state ' is in conflict with supposed ideologies then those that hold to those ideologies, or have been brain washed by them , may feel threatened .  Or they might feel threatened by  you ..... upsetting the apple cart , so to speak .

 

Then, there is all this .... I am sorry .... BULLSHIT  about 'being a man '   and what that means to some  and how that is threatened in a similar process .

 

" You say I aint been a man ! ?  ...   thems duelin' words !

 

and I will add that concept  is really suffering and failing  ! I went to a men's workshop and after listening dumbfounded for half an hour I had to ask ' Who thinks they have been through a process or even that  made them  a man , or some transition in life where you thought now I am a man - purely under your own definitions' .  Less than half the hands of the group went up . I asked the others 'do you know what it means or what the term is describing 'to be man ' , again, less than half .  So near 1/4 of the men present did not even have a definition of what it means . ... even to them !

 

One of the first area of relief I noticed when I acknowledged that I was trans was the relief that I could stop trying to act "manly". It was always so much work to act "manly" enough in Texas to not arouse suspicion. 

[EFreethought]

8 hours ago, Maddie said:

It's important to remember that with the far right loosing their minds over the trans issue, that there are a lot of strawmen out there right now. 

 

The far right people are always losing their minds over something. It's like they want to be angry.

 

Ah, to be back in the sweet, innocent days of Jade Helm.

 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Apech said:

man up nungali 

 

I have , of course    

 

I am sure you have read my views on initiation and 'coming into manhood' ... and how the western system of it  has virtually become extinct .

 

So I could put my hand up  on each of those questions .   My definition is on 7 levels;  a man should have '7 heads' . But I won't go into that here  .....   off topic .

 

I will say however that in some of these systems , what 'makes you a man' might be considered effeminate  in some western views . Eg . in the Samurai tradition , you are not a 'real man' unless  you can arrange a nice bunch of flowers  (ikibana ) , appreciate nature and beauty ,  write beautiful and meaningful poetry , and in a beautiful calligraphic style and spend some time on your hairdo and facial make up

 

  .....   and there is the killing people with swords and stuff  .   

 

In my tradition ,  the 'consciousness of a poet ' and of a  'certain type of woman ' is also required  .  One must be a warrior as well   .  And this path is also open to women ;

 

 

Artemisia I  -  historically famous for

her valour     at the Battle of Salamis

toward the end of Xerxes I's invasion

of Greece in 480 BCE.

 

... or these 'girls ' ;

 

        

 

 YPJ    -       Kurdish women's army

 defending  and liberating women

and children from IS capture .

 

 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

One of the first area of relief I noticed when I acknowledged that I was trans was the relief that I could stop trying to act "manly". It was always so much work to act "manly" enough in Texas to not arouse suspicion. 

 

Ahhhh ...  but this  isnt  'an act' .   Its about being .  Not acting .

 

Many men , in this new age of ( moving towards ) equality  know how to act . And they can act however they want in  more liberal societies that are more open and inclusive than Texas   ( what do you like about it by the way ?  You are still there , although it must have been difficult for a long time  ) . 

 

But, the old 'act like a man '   and being told to 'man up ' and what that meant and implied ... well, a lot of that has been tossed out now .

 

If I had asked those questions to my parents generation it would be easy answers ; "Of course I know what it means to be a man !   To be the bread winner of the family and work , to fight and defend my country, if need be .  To be master of my emotions, while women stay at home and do the cleaning and childminding  . ... and so on .

 

Nowadays  ? Many men aint so sure ... even in places like the opposite of Texas .

 

You would not turn an eye here Maddie .  But still this is where I find male identity confused  or unknown . They threw the SNAG thing out some time back .   There are 'New Age' type of workshops about it ... but OMG !   The stuff they are putting out ! .  Nothing is out there that seems to be adopted as an overall model .

 

If I ask women the same questions , I get an immediate response  ... they  are on 'the up' (a bit ) in our society , some are even enthusiastic in their descriptions of what it means and where they are going .

 

I am nearly tempted to ask you ..... what does it mean 'to be a woman '  ,    to you Maddie  ?     

[liminal_luke]

Billy Joel - She's Always A Woman (from Old Grey Whistle Test) (youtube.com)

[Maddie]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

I am nearly tempted to ask you ..... what does it mean 'to be a woman '  ,    to you Maddie  ?     

 

To me it means just being myself and not having to act like a man :-)

[Salvijus]

29 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

To me it means just being myself and not having to act like a man :-)

Why not being yourself(a woman) in a male body? After all a body is just a bag of meat, is it really important to alter its natural shape that nature has given it? 

Edited April 16 by Salvijus

[silent thunder]

11 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Why not being yourself(a woman) in a male body? After all a body is just a bag of meat, is it really important to alter its natural shape that nature has given it? 

Wow.  Just wow.

 

 

[Salvijus]

The thing that worries me about this topic is. 

 

It is sayed in spiritual texts that a physical body is the last manifestation of all the other subtle bodies before it. So there is an energetic body as a blueprint that then gives manifestation to whether you will have male body or a female body, and its shape and form etc. 

 

So the thing is... If the energy body decides whether you'll be given a male body or a female body. What's the point of interfering with it? There're some teachers that say even the energies behave differently in a male and female body. And there are practices sometimes differently geared to suit this. 

Edited April 16 by Salvijus

[silent thunder]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The thing that worries me about this topic is. 

 

It is sayed in spiritual texts that a physical body is the last manifestation of all the other subtle bodies before it. So there is an energetic body as a blueprint that then gives manifestation to whether you will have male body or a female body, and its shape and form etc. 

 

So the thing is... If the energy body decides whether you'll be given a male body or a female body. What's the point of interfering with it? There're some teachers that say even the energies behave differently in a male and female body. And there are practices sometimes differently geared to suit this. 

[Salvijus]

@silent thunder relax? 

[Salvijus]

To continue with my previous thought without thunder interfering me. 

 

For example, in Ayurveda even plants are categorized into male and female according to their energetic qualities. Even tho plants have no genitals. Energetics are much more of what we are than the body really. And personally traits are probably shallow aspect of us aswell. 

Edited April 16 by Salvijus

[Maddie]

25 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The thing that worries me about this topic is. 

 

It is sayed in spiritual texts that a physical body is the last manifestation of all the other subtle bodies before it. So there is an energetic body as a blueprint that then gives manifestation to whether you will have male body or a female body, and its shape and form etc. 

 

So the thing is... If the energy body decides whether you'll be given a male body or a female body. What's the point of interfering with it? There're some teachers that say even the energies behave differently in a male and female body. And there are practices sometimes differently geared to suit this. 

 

Guess those aren't my texts. 

[Maddie]

49 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Why not being yourself(a woman) in a male body? After all a body is just a bag of meat, is it really important to alter its natural shape that nature has given it? 

 

So I actually tried this for a while because I was fighting this, I didn't want this, so I took exactly this line of thinking. Long story short my anxiety and depression didn't seem to care about this line of thinking. 

Edited April 16 by Maddie

[blue eyed snake]

48 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The thing that worries me about this topic is. 

 

It is sayed in spiritual texts that a physical body is the last manifestation of all the other subtle bodies before it. So there is an energetic body as a blueprint that then gives manifestation to whether you will have male body or a female body, and its shape and form etc. 

 

So the thing is... If the energy body decides whether you'll be given a male body or a female body. What's the point of interfering with it? There're some teachers that say even the energies behave differently in a male and female body. And there are practices sometimes differently geared to suit this. 

 

hmm...

 

it's also said in spiritual texts that we should try to find the balance between female and male.

That males should look for their feminity and vice versa.

 

i don't know about the energy body deciding anything, but energies do tend to behave different in male versus female bodies. And not every male body behaves like any other male body, neither does the chi. It's a continuum, where people like Maddie and me are on the outer sides.

 

It's the society that prevents us from acting like the gender that we feel is right, that fits with the way our chi runs through and around the body. I mean, the  body i currently live in looks like a fat old woman with big boobs, would I behave like a guy i would be laughingstock everywhere.

 

for years I've wanted to have a beard and my voice a bit lower, would make life a lot nicer.

 

Humans need to be part of a group, two spirit people have long been denied their place in society, I would like to see an end to that.

[Maddie]

4 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

hmm...

 

it's also said in spiritual texts that we should try to find the balance between female and male.

That males should look for their feminity and vice versa.

 

i don't know about the energy body deciding anything, but energies do tend to behave different in male versus female bodies. And not every male body behaves like any other male body, neither does the chi. It's a continuum, where people like Maddie and me are on the outer sides.

 

It's the society that prevents us from acting like the gender that we feel is right, that fits with the way our chi runs through and around the body. I mean, the  body i currently live in looks like a fat old woman with big boobs, would I behave like a guy i would be laughingstock everywhere.

 

for years I've wanted to have a beard and my voice a bit lower, would make life a lot nicer.

 

Humans need to be part of a group, two spirit people have long been denied their place in society, I would like to see an end to that.

 

Hey I obviously can't answer this for you but to me you sound trans. Have you ever considered transitioning? I hope you don't mind the question. 

[Apech]

22 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Hey I obviously can't answer this for you but to me you sound trans. Have you ever considered transitioning? I hope you don't mind the question. 

which bit of wanting a penis, a beard , a low voice and no boobs led you to this conclusion?

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, Apech said:

which bit of wanting a penis, a beard , a low voice and no boobs led you to this conclusion?

 

I try not to be presumptuous lol 

[Taoist Texts]

13 minutes ago, Apech said:

which bit of wanting a.... a low voice ...

https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/low-voice-pitch-increases-standing-among-strangers/

lower pitches seen as more attractive and formidable

formidable, sacre bleu!

[Maddie]

18 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/low-voice-pitch-increases-standing-among-strangers/

lower pitches seen as more attractive and formidable

formidable, sacre bleu!

 

well shit lol