Could anyone introduce me to the basics of daoism?

[NaturaNaturans]

Apoligies, I know this is a little lazy, but I come from Europe and know basically nothing about this philosophy (is it a philosophy?).

Would anyone mind giving me a quick insight of the essence of it?

 

[Maddie]

7 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

Apoligies, I know this is a little lazy, but I come from Europe and know basically nothing about this philosophy (is it a philosophy?).

Would anyone mind giving me a quick insight of the essence of it?

 

 

I think if you ask ten people you'll get thirteen explanations lol. 

[MBZ]

 “The Dao of Pooh” 

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, MBZ said:

 “The Dao of Pooh” 

 

The best Taoist ever obviously :-)

[Mig]

28 minutes ago, MBZ said:

 “The Dao of Pooh” 

How good is that book as an introduction to Daoism or Eastern philosophy ? From the vinegar tasters to the old master and the master Zhuang, what's that all about?

[SirPalomides]

It’s a terrible book and I’m hoping MBZ was kidding.

 

I would start with a historical overview- I think the best way to understand ideas is to learn at the same time the context they arose in. Isabelle Robinet’s book Taoism: Growth of a Religion is good, I don’t know if anything in English has superseded it.

[liminal_luke]

I remember reading a short list of introductory taoist books provided by @Taomeow but am unable to locate it now with the search function.  In general, I think her posts would provide a place to start.

[Trunk]

https://www.amazon.com/Scholar-Warrior-Introduction-Everyday-Life/dp/0062502328/

 

[Gerard]

 Very easy:

 

[NaturaNaturans]

4 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 Very easy:

 

One of those «cant be described, but maybe pointed at» concepts?

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 1 The introduction of Tao
1. 道可道，非常道。
2. 名可名，非常名。
3. 無，名天地之始。
4. 有，名萬物之母。
5. 故常無，欲以觀其妙。
6. 常有，欲以觀其徼。
7. 此兩者同出而異名，
8. 同謂之玄。玄之又玄，
9. 眾妙之門。

1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.
2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name.

3. Invisible, was a name given to Tao at the origin of sky and earth.
4. Visible, was a name given to Tao as the mother of all things.

5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale.
6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary.

7. These two come from one origin but differ in name,
8. Both are regarded as unfathomable, the most occult and profound;
9. The gate of all changes.

 

[NaturaNaturans]

@ChiDragon no wonder it is hard to explain

[Gerard]

You need to do the RIGHT PRACTICE (1) in the right environment (2). 
 

I already gave you a clue for number 2.

 

For no. 1:

 

This is what I do:

 

 

 

But from time to time I play with TJQ a bit too:

 

 

 

 

Learned both from legitimate lines and highly experienced teachers.

 

Then you'll understand and connect with the principles within (Tao).

So it's method + environment (nature is the best place to train).

 

You need to find a good teacher. It's a very important aspect of this path.

 

 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

 Regarding this:

 

7 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.
2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name.   (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

Think Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem.  That's what I did when I was a teenager and was trying to understand the Dao de Jing back in the late sixties.

 

and this:

 

2 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

@ChiDragon no wonder it is hard to explain

 

Want to understand something like Wuwei?  Think in terms of the the Unmoved Mover as the Unchanged Changer, a wider meaning set for the Greek work Kinesis, and think of the difference between normal action "wei" and "wuwei" "non action" as the difference between Aristotle's efficient and formal causes as I did in a series of posts analyzing Wuwei a couple of years ago.

 

With of the right knowledge and some creative thinking most of these "mystereies", can be translated into terms that are somewhat more understandable.  Interested in knowing more?  Let me know.

 

ZYD

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Since the OP liked my post, I thought I would put in this link to my posts on Wuwei:

A Science of Wu Wei?

 

I don't have much time to post in much detail on this thread, but the post linked above should give a good idea of what I talking about by thinking of Wuwei as the action of a formal cause.  I hope the posts are interesting and informative.

 

ZYD

 

[NaturaNaturans]

1 hour ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

 

Since the OP liked my post,

 

Yessir, it was very helpfull hearing it described with more western terminology. I will def check the link out with time.

[Chang dao ling]

On 12/15/2023 at 6:51 PM, NaturaNaturans said:

Apoligies, I know this is a little lazy, but I come from Europe and know basically nothing about this philosophy (is it a philosophy?).

Would anyone mind giving me a quick insight of the essence of it?

 

Read Eva Wang,Damo Mitchell, Jerry alan Johnson Books

[exorcist_1699]

Daoism simply is a system  of philosophy for understanding  the world(s) , both  physical and spiritual , that we live in . However, different from  other systems of philosophies ( even religions) , Daoism interprets them with the ideas and  ways of jing , qi , shen ,  which exist not only inside people's bodies, but everywhere , therefore giving the followers of Daoism  the power and means  of not only understanding the world(s) , but  changing them . Philosophers finally  are endowed  with  a power , qi ,  that disentangles them from solely  being an explainer , always succumbing to  poverty, diseases, aging and earthly  political power , even  alienated human creation like AGI .

Edited December 20, 2023 by exorcist_1699

[NaturaNaturans]

On 18.12.2023 at 10:06 AM, Chang dao ling said:

Read Eva Wang,Damo Mitchell, Jerry alan Johnson Books

Thank you. Im probally only buying one, what would you reccomend.

 

Also, Tao te ching is available on YouTube i see, that is the «main» text, is it not?

 

edit: is it fair to say daoism is more about «a way of Life,» then a philosophy?

Edited December 20, 2023 by NaturaNaturans

[Chang dao ling]

7 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

Thank you. Im probally only buying one, what would you reccomend.

 

Also, Tao te ching is available on YouTube i see, that is the «main» text, is it not?

 

edit: is it fair to say daoism is more about «a way of Life,» then a philosophy?

https://amzn.eu/d/3dhJMnf

If you are interested in learning the theory and practice you can buy this book "White moon on the mountain peak" click the above link. If you are only interested in theory than Eva Wang books are perfect for you. https://amzn.eu/d/ayss4G8. Check this book also https://amzn.eu/d/1gowUj8

Edited December 21, 2023 by Chang dao ling

[Master Logray]

Try this out.   C.C. Tsai is the expert in Taoism and - comics.  The DaoDeJing, Zhuang zi are must read.  In cartoons with illustrated text.

 

https://press.princeton.edu/books/ebook/9780691185941/dao-de-jing

https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691179742/the-way-of-nature

 

They are also in Amazon and in ebook format.

 

C. C. Tsai is one of Asia's most popular cartoonists, and his editions of the Chinese classics have sold more than 40 million copies in over twenty languages. Here, he works his magic again with a delightful graphic adaptation of the complete text of Laozi's Dao De Jing, the beloved source of Daoist philosophy. Masterfully transforming Laozi's challenging work into entertaining and enlightening episodes, Tsai offers a uniquely fresh, relevant, and accessible version of one of the world's most influential books.

 

You don't have to go through difficulties in cryptic language, foreign culture and translation.  Its teachings are so easy to remember.

 

Some of the chapters are in the Youtube channel C. C. Tsai Comics.   You can take a look first.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfH1aDrm3A

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NaturaNaturans]

thanks for the help so far. I just downloaded the dao de zing as well as «warrior scholar,» as suggested by Trunk. Still have two Audible credits left, so ill see after ive finished these. Promising so far, I might ask a question here or in a seperate thread when im done with these.

 

—————

I do get a strong sense that Dao is similar to the heraclian and stoic sense of logos as universal law. 
 

from wiki:

Quote

 

The writing of Heraclitus (c. 535 – c. 475 BC) was the first place where the word logos was given special attention in ancient Greek philosophy,[17]although Heraclitus seems to use the word with a meaning not significantly different from the way in which it was used in ordinary Greek of his time.[18] For Heraclitus, logos provided the link between rational discourse and the world's rational structure.[19]

This logos holds always but humans always prove unable to ever understand it, both before hearing it and when they have first heard it. For though all things come to be in accordance with this logos, humans are like the inexperienced when they experience such words and deeds as I set out, distinguishing each in accordance with its nature and saying how it is. But other people fail to notice what they do when awake, just as they forget what they do while asleep.

— Diels–Kranz, 22B1

For this reason it is necessary to follow what is common. But although the logos is common, most people live as if they had their own private understanding.

— Diels–Kranz, 22B2

Listening not to me but to the logos it is wise to agree that all things are one.

— Diels–Kranz, 22B50[20]

What logos means here is not certain; it may mean "reason" or "explanation" in the sense of an objective cosmic law, or it may signify nothing more than "saying" or "wisdom".[21] Yet, an independent existence of a universal logos was clearly suggested by Heraclitus.[22]

 

 

Any thoughts?

[SirPalomides]

Like the passage notes, it's kind of hard to pin down what Heraclitus meant by "logos". I suspect it's more his description of his own account/ understanding of the world which everyone else struggles to catch up with. These pre-socratic philosophers are like rappers, every one of them is the greatest and all the other MC's are wack and too stupid to understand them. 

 

The parallels between Daoist philosophy and Stoicism have been noted more than once. I would say a subtle but key difference is the Stoics' fatalism and their sense of freedom as a purely interior thing. Virtue is the sole good and ultimately a matter purely of mental will detached from all surrounding experience. The Daoists acknowledge fate as well, and value interior equilibrium in the face of life's changes, but my sense is that there is a greater sense of human freedom and agency within the world at large than the Stoics would be willing to admit. 

 

On 12/20/2023 at 5:15 PM, NaturaNaturans said:

Also, Tao te ching is available on YouTube i see, that is the «main» text, is it not?

 

Yes and no. It is of course widely read, quoted, etc. but I would argue by itself it's quite a vague text and if we want to get into some really meaty Daoist philosophy then Zhuangzi is the place to start. 

 

On 12/20/2023 at 5:15 PM, NaturaNaturans said:

 

edit: is it fair to say daoism is more about «a way of Life,» then a philosophy?

 

Philosophy is a way of life. The notion that it could be some detached exercise doesn't seem to arise before the last few centuries. 

[Maddie]

I have a question about Daoism myself. Does Daoism have anything like mindfulness in Buddhism where one just observes the mind without getting involved?

[ChimpSage]

Daoism in its most basic form is simply the way of infinite light and virtue.

 

A Daoist is someone who is on the pathway towards removing all vice and darkness and becoming pure virtue and light.

 

Everything else is not Daoism. May call itself Daoism but it’s not.

 

Similarly, a Daoist may call themselves a Buddhist but if they’re on the way, they’re a Daoist.

 

Just a label that points us to a pathway up the mountain towards embodying divinity. Embracing God rather than animal within us.

Edited December 25, 2023 by ChimpSage