forestofemptiness

Damo Mitchell Free MCO Course

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5 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

I've spoken quite highly in this thread about Damo, but I'd also like to offer a counterpoint.

 

I do find him quite absolutist. For instance, he is quite disparaging of other styles and systems. Even major traditions that have produced many enlightened masters over the years are treated almost with disdain.

 

I won't get into the specifics, because it was said on a private Facebook group, but the implication is that only what he teaches is correct, and everything else is wrong.

 

I don't doubt his path is a true one, and perhaps even one of the most direct and powerful that is publicly available. But I also don't think it's the only one  

 

Yes after having been in a cult when I was younger I always get uncomfortable when someone says only my way is right and every other way is wrong.

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13 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Yes after having been in a cult when I was younger I always get uncomfortable when someone says only my way is right and every other way is wrong.

 

Having had the same experience, I fully agree. Thankfully if Damo ever intends to be a cult leader, he'd be utterly shit at it. Inflatable pink flamingoes would probably factor into it somehow.

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On 25/10/2021 at 12:08 AM, freeform said:


Yup - completely agree.

 

Some people say that there’s a universal path and all traditions are basically the same. I completely disagree with that… there are clearly a lot of crossovers between certain paths… but equally there are many differences.
 

I have little experience outside of alchemical Daoism and some meditative practice in Buddhism - and I almost always mention that everything I say is from that perspective.

 

Since we’re talking about the Xian Tian attainment on a microcosmic orbit thread, I think it’s clear we’re talking about Daoist alchemy.

 

I’m using a specific definition of ‘realisation’ - one defined by @dwai… we’ve basically had this discussion continuing for a few years now, so we’re not talking about all paths in general.

 

The main disagreement seems to stem from ‘realisation’ vs ‘actualisation’… One is realising your true nature - the other is manifesting this true nature through all layers of existence. The argument Dwai puts forth is that everything is already perfectly actualised - you just need to realise it. Mine is a bit more basic - my tradition, my teachers, and many generations of masters in my lineage unequivocally disagree. And I’ve shared plenty of reasons why.

 


Not even entering into the argument of whether this view is correct or not, it is the traditional Daoist perspective. Komjathy states this clearly in Daoism, a guide for the perplexed, where he writes, "a transcendent spirit is created [his italics], not given. From a traditional Daoist perspective, immortality is not an ontological given; it is actualised through Daoist training (p. 128). As it so happens I do agree with your (and traditional Daoism’s) perspective. 
 

 

Edited by Bindi
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9 hours ago, Bindi said:


Not even entering into the argument of whether this view is correct or not, it is the traditional Daoist perspective. Komjathy states this clearly in Daoism, a guide for the perplexed, where he writes, "a transcendent spirit is created [his italics], not given. From a traditional Daoist perspective, immortality is not an ontological given; it is actualised through Daoist training (p. 128). As it so happens I do agree with your (and traditional Daoism’s) perspective. 
 

 

 

Yes - while some traditions focus purely on releasing, letting go, dissolving etc. - Alchemical Daoism has an element of both letting go and building, creating, birthing and so on.

 

It's quite confounding for those heavily invested in their own tradition (that they see as universal) - so I completely understand the 'how can that be so' type of reactions.

 

Far worse is when there's no disbelief - but some twisted form of ‘agreement’ instead. This way Daoism just gets redacted, filtered, manipulated and contorted into something supporting their truth. Alchemical Daoism just becomes another branch of non-dualism or neo-vedanta, or shamanism, or sex magick or christianity etc.

 

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Why not just let a tradition be what it is? Even if you disagree with it. Even if you know better? Why bother with all the hassle and the mental gymnastics of hammering a square peg into a round hole?

 

Now I'm confounded :)

 

Edited by freeform
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20 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

I won't get into the specifics, because it was said on a private Facebook group, but the implication is that only what he teaches is correct, and everything else is wrong.

 

I don't take him in this way at all... from what I gather.....he's just unapologetic about the amount of false teachings and methods that float around in the public domain

 

Let me give you an example...I recently had a look into some other traditions, such as Tibetan lines.....my research (and discussions with a quite well versed practitioner)  indicated, that the most common things you come across.... visualize this deity etc etc...is extremely overemphasized to the public and does not serve the functions many people state it does (that's not to say it serves no function...but what it does vs what you are told it does are miles apart)  ….moreover... much like Daoism.... a lot of the actual methods are kept secret for those initiated into lineages...

 

Though in In saying that...I've been shown that there are genuine practices for  tsa lung & trul khor on YouTube of all places! so there's probably others for different practices like Tummo & Phowa buried in there ;) but the point is...whats fed to the masses is not always as it seems, nor what it is depicted as

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4 hours ago, freeform said:

Yes - while some traditions focus purely on releasing, letting go, dissolving etc. - Alchemical Daoism has an element of both letting go and building, creating, birthing and so on.

 

I think most traditions have some mix. From a Buddhist POV, I would use "effort" and "effortless" methods. However, the former is usually a method to develop the latter. Interestingly, I have heard that certain Tantric forms also develop a body that is to survive death. However, such practices seem to be aimed at full time practitioners. I wonder if internal alchemy is similar. It appears quite different from the Mahamudra/Dzogchen styles of practice.

 

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

I don't take him in this way at all.

 

I have the same impression FWIW, but I wouldn't go to him for anything other than neigong. 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

I don't take him in this way at all... from what I gather.....he's just unapologetic about the amount of false teachings and methods that float around in the public domain

 

Agreed, he definitely holds a strong stance and opinion on cultivation matters, and I think that's quite good instead of being wishy washy.

 

You just have to take him and it for what it is, I've never gotten the feeling that he's preached "everything else is wrong", he definitely has certain practices or traditions that he does not necessarily agree or align with but I've not gotten the impression that it is his way or the highway.

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On 26.10.2021 at 8:52 AM, Frederic said:

It took years to integrate this experience because all previous motivations where no longer relevant, yet the ego still had (and still has) a lot of habitual movements, so searching, grasping and stuff like that often happens.

Sounds great!

How did you manage this? 

(feel free to pm if you like.)

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On 1-11-2021 at 10:03 PM, questionmark said:

Sounds great!

How did you manage this? 

(feel free to pm if you like.)

 

I'm not sure how to answer. Life happens. What helped is that every time some grasping occurred, that after a while I would realize it happening (sometimes after months, but time became shorter and shorter). It is an ongoing process. Further more different teachers or teaching materials often come at exactly the right time to help with integration. Tim Freke was a big one for me. Now new material and teachers show up and a whole new path of exploration and deepening presents itself.

 

I've noticed that a lot of motivations came from a feeling of lack. And from that flowed grasping and striving. In essence a running away from feeling something in myself. trying to cover something up. Over time motivations changed to enjoying practicing for the sake of it, or exploring Self because it interests me. I feel that after all that I'm right now just beginning to be able to practice properly! If you want to discuss this further you can PM me.

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6 hours ago, Frederic said:

Over time motivations changed to enjoying practicing for the sake of it, or exploring Self because it interests me.

 

This is so crucial I think, and likely one wouldn't really "get it" until it just happens. Motivation from a feeling of lack and practicing with a sense of grasping and striving is miserable looking back. This shift is one of the things that found me back here at the Bums. 

 

 

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