futuredaze

Did the U.S. really go to the moon in 1969?

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Lately, I've been questioning the official narrative.  There are a lot of things that are red flags in my mind, such as:

 

- NASA claiming to have "destroyed" the original moon technology and that it is "difficult to rebuild."

- No other countries have been to the moon since, despite exponential technological improvements.

- Russia and China says we didn't do it.

- Shadows from the moon landing pics go in different directions, suggesting they do not come from the faroff sunlight, but a closer stage light.

- Other oddities in the reflections of the spacemen's helmets.

- Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin never really gave many interviews, and when they talk about the moon landing they seem really strange.  This isn't objective proof by any means but an intuitive impression.

 

Not to mention how often the establishment narratives fall apart upon closer scrutiny. 9/11 clearly did not happen the way they said it did.  Same with the Kennedy assassination.

 

Now, I'm not saying "we definitely didn't go."  I am just saying "the official story seems weird" and "I wouldn't be surprised if it was made up."

 

Other opinions?

Edited by futuredaze

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I think "we" did go. There is just too little evidence to the contrary. Plus bear in mind that there were many hundred people involved with the project. And all of them were silenced somehow?

 

Also, the moon isn't really that far away. Sending people there should be well within our technological capabilities. Actually, I would have expected humanity to go hiking at least on Mars by now... :D

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13 minutes ago, futuredaze said:

Lately, I've been questioning the official narrative.  There are a lot of things that are red flags in my mind, such as:

 

- NASA claiming to have "destroyed" the original moon technology and that it is "difficult to rebuild."

- No other countries have been to the moon since, despite exponential technological improvements.

- Russia and China says we didn't do it.

- Shadows from the moon landing pics go in different directions, suggesting they do not come from the faroff sunlight, but a closer stage light.

- Other oddities in the reflections of the spacemen's helmets.

- Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin never really gave many interviews, and when they talk about the moon landing they seem really strange.  This isn't objective proof by any means but an intuitive impression.

 

Not to mention how often the establishment narratives fall apart upon closer scrutiny. 9/11 clearly did not happen the way they said it did.  Same with the Kennedy assassination.

 

Now, I'm not saying "we definitely didn't go."  I am just saying "the official story seems weird" and "I wouldn't be surprised if it was made up."

 

Other opinions?

 

I have had dinner with Buzz Aldrin and there is no doubt that he is sure that he went to the moon. Even 30+ years after, he was also super upset that they changed the side in which the door opened on the lunar capsule which made it so that he was the 2nd man on the moon instead of the first. He felt robbed and went on about it for 30 min. Also, Neil was supposed to have shown up for the dinner too, but he cancelled at the last minute (which Buzz said was typical). Jim Lovell was also with us who told about the Apollo 13 mission. All of the space flight stuff was all very real to him too. It was just me and a business friend who set it up with the two astronauts, so no big event and they were blatantly honest about everything.

 

Would have been great if Neil showed, but one of the coolest nights of my life. :) 

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Obviously not. For propaganda purpose, the NASA mandated Stanley Kubrick to make a fake Moon landing. Due to his perfectionism, he went with his whole crew to the Moon to add more realism to the scene.

Edited by Eques Peregrinus
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Some time ago there was a discussion on a Dutch science forum about this. So I know from experience how hopeless it is to discuss with conspiracy thinkers. That's why I will not waste my time participating in this topic.

 

The arguments for doubting that the U.S. really got to the moon are solidly debunked in this book:  https://www.amazon.com/Moon-Hoax-Debunked-Paolo-Attivissimo/dp/1291591575

 

Or read it for free:

http://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/

 

Not that it will make any difference....

 

Edited by wandelaar
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I just saw a meme, let me see if I can find it.

By Dan Broadbent | July 20, 2018 | Category Space Share and enjoy! Nearly 50 years ago today on July 20th, 1969, humans stepped foot on the surface of the moon for the very first time with the Apollo 11 mission. It was a remarkable achievement that gave the United States victory in the Space Race, and solidified NASA’s role as a leader in space exploration. The Apollo program was an incredible time of space innovation and development. It used innovations spawned from the worst parts of humanity to create some of the most incredible things we’ve ever done.
 

 

Image may contain: 2 people, meme and text
 
At 250,000 miles away, the moon isn't that far away, most of us will  drive our cars much further, but because we live in a gravity well, its expensive to get to.  The tech required isn't much more then a Boeing 767, its just dozens of times more expensive without commensurate payback. 
 
To me the doubt is driven by a anti-government anti-science paranoia. 
 
 
Edited by thelerner
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Why haven't people been back to the moon then?  Do you think nobody wants to go, then?

 

Look at computers in the 1960s.  Look at computers now.  It should be significantly EASIER to get to the moon nowadays, assuming it happened.  Yes, I know there was big motivation during the Cold War, but surely other countries have plenty of reasons to go.  Perhaps moon landing technology is an anomaly in modern human technology, in that it is the only technology that stagnated or even went backwards!

 

NASA literally says they "destroyed the technology."  WTF.  They also apparently "recorded  over" a lot of the original footage.  The most important, or one of the most important, scientific advances in humankind....   Yeah, I guess someone recorded ALF over it or something. 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwji6NbL7aTfAhVLrVkKHXknBKsQwqsBMAF6BAgDEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJjt7HpC6w3o&usg=AOvVaw0s6aNWZWjvzdMjdKaJrM7x

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nasa-tapes/moon-landing-tapes-got-erased-nasa-admits-idUSTRE56F5MK20090716

 

Then there are the arguments of the thermosphere/Van Allen Radiation Belt.  Feel free to correct me if you have a scientific background, but it seems implausible that a spacecraft containing aluminum (melts at around 650 degrees Fahrenheit) went through these high-heat parts of our atmosphere (2,000-2,500 degrees Fahrenheit).

 

It is humorous that someone wanted to write me off as a "conspiracy thinker."  And predictable.  I am not even denying it, I am just questioning it which I believe is healthy and rational.  I do think there is some supportive evidence.  If we invented the atomic bomb in the 1940s, moon-landing in 1969 doesn't seem impossible.  but it does strike me as implausible.

Edited by futuredaze

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2 minutes ago, futuredaze said:

Why haven't people been back to the moon then?  Do you think nobody wants to go, then?

 

Look at computers in the 1960s.  Look at computers now.  It should be significantly EASIER to get to the moon nowadays, assuming it happened.  Yes, I know there was big motivation during the Cold War, but surely other countries have plenty of reasons to go.  Perhaps moon landing technology is an anomaly in modern human technology, in that it is the only technology that stagnated or even went backwards!

 

NASA literally says they "destroyed the technology."  WTF.  They also apparently "recorded  over" a lot of the original footage.  The most important, or one of the most important, scientific advances in humankind....   Yeah, I guess someone recorded ALF over it or something. 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwji6NbL7aTfAhVLrVkKHXknBKsQwqsBMAF6BAgDEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJjt7HpC6w3o&usg=AOvVaw0s6aNWZWjvzdMjdKaJrM7x

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nasa-tapes/moon-landing-tapes-got-erased-nasa-admits-idUSTRE56F5MK20090716

 

Then there are the arguments of the thermosphere/Van Allen Radiation Belt.  Feel free to correct me if you have a scientific background, but it seems implausible that a spacecraft containing aluminum (melts at around 650 degrees Fahrenheit) went through these high-heat parts of our atmosphere (2,000-2,500 degrees Fahrenheit).

 

It is humorous that someone wanted to write me off as a "conspiracy thinker."  And predictable.  I am not even denying it, I am just questioning it which I believe is healthy and rational.  I do think there is some supportive evidence.  If we invented the atomic bomb in the 1940s, moon-landing in 1969 doesn't seem impossible.  but it does strike me as implausible.

 

The bottom of the capsules are lined with special ceramic tiles that can withstand the heat. The capsules enter the atmosphere at a very precise angle to prevent damage to the body of the capsule. Same way with the shuttles.

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54 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I just saw a meme, let me see if I can find it.

By Dan Broadbent | July 20, 2018 | Category Space Share and enjoy! Nearly 50 years ago today on July 20th, 1969, humans stepped foot on the surface of the moon for the very first time with the Apollo 11 mission. It was a remarkable achievement that gave the United States victory in the Space Race, and solidified NASA’s role as a leader in space exploration. The Apollo program was an incredible time of space innovation and development. It used innovations spawned from the worst parts of humanity to create some of the most incredible things we’ve ever done.
 

 

Image may contain: 2 people, meme and text
 
At 250,000 miles away, the moon isn't that far away, most of us will  drive our cars much further, but because we live in a gravity well, its expensive to get to.  The tech required isn't much more then a Boeing 767, its just dozens of times more expensive without commensurate payback. 
 
To me the doubt is driven by a anti-government anti-science paranoia. 
 
 

By that logic, everyone in the CIA knows ALL of the most top-secret files, and everyone in the Trump administration knows just as much as Trump.

 

Of course the top dogs know something the low people don't.

 

I am not doubting we ever went to the moon with spacecraft.  I am, however, agnostic about the supposed fact that HUMANS landed on the moon.

 

Of course, I am not claiming objective knowledge.  I used to not really think about this thing at all, and always assumed the narrative was correct.  However, once you start seeing through the lies of the U.S. government (especially in the last century), you begin to question (different from doubting) everything you hear and read.  There is evidence to support both sides, similar to catastrophic climate change supporters/deniers.

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Just now, ralis said:

 

The bottom of the capsules are lined with special ceramic tiles that can withstand the heat. The capsules enter the atmosphere at a very precise angle to prevent damage to the body of the capsule. Same way with the shuttles.

I've seen that explanation.  It seems possible but I don't have a strong background in science to know for sure.

 

I'd like to find more people who have a scientific background AND a philosophical approach.  Unfortunately, many of those who doubt it raise valid philosophical questions yet lack a science background (like me); and many of those who do have some scientific background also have their pre-conceived notions and like to use their scientific understanding in order to prove their belief system (as Robert Anton Wilson says, we have a "thinker" part of our psyche that can think and believe anything, whether rational or irrational, and the a "prover" part that seeks to prove whatever beliefs we have).

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I think so

 

By now you guys could use your Mo Pai Dragon Ball Z siddhis and see for yourselves no? :huh:

Edited by King Jade
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2 hours ago, futuredaze said:

Why haven't people been back to the moon then? 

 

Cost/Benefit Analysis... 

 

It's expensive to go to the moon. Where's the profit?

 

A better question is why did we go there in the first place? Was is really just a USA-USSR dick-measuring contest?

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3 hours ago, futuredaze said:

Why haven't people been back to the moon then?  Do you think nobody wants to go, then?

 

Its boring .   No beaches or cute animals or local indigenous servant /slaves to bring you poolside cocktails.

 

And VERY expensive .... we need to save that money to make weapons to sell to poor people so they can blow the shit out of each other .

 

It seems you just do not understand modern economics !

 

 

Quote

 

Look at computers in the 1960s.  Look at computers now.  It should be significantly EASIER to get to the moon nowadays,

 

Look at the Great Pyramid at GIza .... Look at skyscrapers and modern apartment complexes now. It should be significantly easier to build an even bigger pyramid nowadays .

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

assuming it happened.  Yes, I know there was big motivation during the Cold War, but surely other countries have plenty of reasons to go.  Perhaps moon landing technology is an anomaly in modern human technology, in that it is the only technology that stagnated or even went backwards!

 

NASA literally says they "destroyed the technology."  WTF.  They also apparently "recorded  over" a lot of the original footage.  The most important, or one of the most important, scientific advances in humankind....   Yeah, I guess someone recorded ALF over it or something. 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwji6NbL7aTfAhVLrVkKHXknBKsQwqsBMAF6BAgDEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJjt7HpC6w3o&usg=AOvVaw0s6aNWZWjvzdMjdKaJrM7x

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nasa-tapes/moon-landing-tapes-got-erased-nasa-admits-idUSTRE56F5MK20090716

 

Then there are the arguments of the thermosphere/Van Allen Radiation Belt.  Feel free to correct me if you have a scientific background, but it seems implausible that a spacecraft containing aluminum (melts at around 650 degrees Fahrenheit) went through these high-heat parts of our atmosphere (2,000-2,500 degrees Fahrenheit).

 

Wot  ??? :huh:

 

Quote

 

It is humorous that someone wanted to write me off as a "conspiracy thinker."  And predictable.  I am not even denying it, I am just questioning it which I believe is healthy and rational.  I do think there is some supportive evidence.  If we invented the atomic bomb in the 1940s, moon-landing in 1969 doesn't seem impossible.  but it does strike me as implausible.

 

Not really. Remember that story about telling the indigenous man about the moon landing ? They made a big deal about telling him, to impress him. he said "So what ! My Grandfather, he flew up to the  to the Moon too himself  , many years before you people did ."

 

and, of course ;

 

البُراق

 

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Buraq

Edited by Nungali
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does it matter if we did or not?

doesnt matter to me

there's no whisky up there

and ya aint gonna make any up there

 

Spoiler

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

Cost/Benefit Analysis... 

 

It's expensive to go to the moon. Where's the profit?

 

A better question is why did we go there in the first place? Was is really just a USA-USSR dick-measuring contest?

Yeah, the Cold War had a lot to do with it.  Obviously.  However, why wouldn't any countries want to go?  Wouldn't "coming in second place" still be pretty awesome? 

 

If it was expensive back then, shouldn't it be cheaper now?  10 years ago it was hard to get a decent laptop at the time for under $1k, now you can get much powerful ones, for $400-500.  Plus gas is cheap again now thanks to the Bad Orange Man.

Edited by futuredaze

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/6105902/Moon-rock-given-to-Holland-by-Neil-Armstrong-and-Buzz-Aldrin-is-fake.html

 

Interesting.

 

It isn't like any one fact disproves the moon landing, but when you look at the combination of ALL of the skeptic's evidence, they present a reasonable take on the matter.  As I am not an expert, I don't want to act like I know it all when I don't.  I learned from a pretty young age to question the mainstream narratives and the media.  However, that does not mean I always think they are 100% wrong, since they are usually partially right, but with much spin and selective editing thrown in there.

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a) I always wonder what level of disbelief I'm dealing with?  Do you believe in outer space?  Or is there a dome and we live on a flat earth?  Do you believe the sun is a star or a giant bright flashlight?   Do you believe rockets exist?  Or that the entire history is made up?   Were there space shuttles?  Did they fly?  Are there satellites in space, giving us weather for 40 years, GPS, broadcasting? 

 

Put simply what parts of physics and engineering do you believe is a hoax, that only the brightest and most paranoid can see through. 

 

 

 

b)We have been back to the moon, just not manned.  We've had satellites circling it, getting high res pictures (including pics of the original landing sites) and bouncing radar but landing hasn't been worth the price, instead the 100's of millions were put into the International Space Station, exploring other planets and asteroid belt.  The cost of the original manned were in the billions (Total Apollo cost about $25 Billion).  So it can be done, cheaper but we're still talking 100's of millions.. mostly for a photo ops.

 

Wait, though its visible with the naked eye, and is continually manned and taking hi res pictures, do you believe in the International Space Station?  Doubters try to use 'science' to debunk, but mostly prove they don't understand the science.  They'll look up melting points, but not understand that temperature works differently in a vacuum then in an atmosphere, just like water boils different at high altitudes.  We know these things because science asks questions and sets up experiments to find the truth.   Because skeptics don't know history they won't or can't look up hundreds of tests done, step by step to get us here. 

 

They ignore rockets and high altitude balloons that took us to the edge of space in the 40's and 50's.  The first astronauts were balloonists.  We learned about the atmosphere and vacuum from them.  Progressively we got launched rockets and planes higher and higher, learning as we went along.  Our rockets went higher.  We launched dogs and monkeys into space.  So did the Soviet Union.  Almost a dozen countries have launched satellites plus private companies.

 

Using the scientific method, we set up experiments and we learned.  Most of us, anyway.  One could read the books, learn about the pioneers in aerospace; the hows and the whys that made there progress.  It's amazingly documented.  These people are proud of there accomplishments.  We have the pictures and the people are still alive, mostly.  You can talk to them, read there books, follow the steps..

 

Tech improved and these actions were not done in isolation.  The original launches of satellites from Sputnik on, were tracked around the world.  All of these things were tracked.. well you know where I'm going.. being a doubter is easy, being a scientist, or engineer, putting in the study is hard. 

 

 

As the world grows more paranoid and superstitious..stupider, it'll be more dangerous.  Diseases that have been cured will re-appear cause why trust modern medicine?  Early warnings of danger from tech satellites etc., will be ignored cause they it could be faked and lying.  Ideas easily and thoroughly debunked decades ago, will..

 

Edited by thelerner
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10 minutes ago, thelerner said:

being a doubter is easy, being a scientist, or engineer, putting in the study is hard. 

 

Having blind faith in what authority figures tell us is just as easy...perhaps even more so.

 

24 minutes ago, thelerner said:

As the world grows more paranoid and superstitious..stupider, it'll be more dangerous.  Diseases that have been cured will re-appear cause why trust modern medicine?

 

Did you know that the third leading cause of death in the US is modern medicine?

There is always room for questioning. The truly scientific mind doesn't sweep anomalies under the rug, out of fear...it tries to explore them.

To address the topic of thread: Room 237 was a fun documentary. I'm a big Kubrick fan. I don't know whether the first moon landing was faked or not. If I cared about this subject a bit more, I'd be looking into wandelaar's book recommendation.

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2 hours ago, zerostao said:

does it matter if we did or not?

doesnt matter to me

there's no whisky up there

and ya aint gonna make any up there

 

It may be hard to get whisky on the moon. But travel a little further and you can find some pretty interesting space booze. Loads of it!

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, thelerner said:

a) I always wonder what level of disbelief I'm dealing with?  Do you believe in outer space?  Or is there a dome and we live on a flat earth?  Do you believe the sun is a star or a giant bright flashlight?   Do you believe rockets exist?  Or that the entire history is made up?   Were there space shuttles?  Did they fly?  Are there satellites in space, giving us weather for 40 years, GPS, broadcasting? 

 

Put simply what parts of physics and engineering do you believe is a hoax, that only the brightest and most paranoid can see through. 

 

 

 

b)We have been back to the moon, just not manned.  We've had satellites circling it, getting high res pictures (including pics of the original landing sites) and bouncing radar but landing hasn't been worth the price, instead the 100's of millions were put into the International Space Station, exploring other planets and asteroid belt.  The cost of the original manned were in the billions (Total Apollo cost about $25 Billion).  So it can be done, cheaper but we're still talking 100's of millions.. mostly for a photo ops.

 

Wait, though its visible with the naked eye, and is continually manned and taking hi res pictures, do you believe in the International Space Station?  Doubters try to use 'science' to debunk, but mostly prove they don't understand the science.  They'll look up melting points, but not understand that temperature works differently in a vacuum then in an atmosphere, just like water boils different at high altitudes.  We know these things because science asks questions and sets up experiments to find the truth.   Because skeptics don't know history they won't or can't look up hundreds of tests done, step by step to get us here. 

 

They ignore rockets and high altitude balloons that took us to the edge of space in the 40's and 50's.  The first astronauts were balloonists.  We learned about the atmosphere and vacuum from them.  Progressively we got launched rockets and planes higher and higher, learning as we went along.  Our rockets went higher.  We launched dogs and monkeys into space.  So did the Soviet Union.  Almost a dozen countries have launched satellites plus private companies.

 

Using the scientific method, we set up experiments and we learned.  Most of us, anyway.  One could read the books, learn about the pioneers in aerospace; the hows and the whys that made there progress.  It's amazingly documented.  These people are proud of there accomplishments.  We have the pictures and the people are still alive, mostly.  You can talk to them, read there books, follow the steps..

 

Tech improved and these actions were not done in isolation.  The original launches of satellites from Sputnik on, were tracked around the world.  All of these things were tracked.. well you know where I'm going.. being a doubter is easy, being a scientist, or engineer, putting in the study is hard. 

 

 

As the world grows more paranoid and superstitious..stupider, it'll be more dangerous.  Diseases that have been cured will re-appear cause why trust modern medicine?  Early warnings of danger from tech satellites etc., will be ignored cause they it could be faked and lying.  Ideas easily and thoroughly debunked decades ago, will..

 

Haha.  Comparing flat earthers to people who question the mainstream moon landing narrative is a big stretch.  I KNEW it was going to happen though, because I've noticed this pattern of comparing the mainstream moon landing narrative to flat earthers when I have seen similar posts online.  The comparison reminds me of those who call the people who believe in a global elite working together for certain aims, believers in "the lizard people!!1"  It is basically just an attempt to create a straw man by using a metaphor which does not reflect reality. 

 

Of course I believe in outer space.  I believe in the moon.  I believe human spacecraft has been to the moon.  I have my doubts as to whether or not humans have been on the moon.  Currently, I am around 60% disbelief and 40% think it actually happened.  I am trying to learn as much as possible to get a better understanding of the matter.  There is no need to clinging onto a view until one can see the situation clearly and fully.  I was agnostic on God for the first 20-25 years of my life until I found what was conclusive for me (based on subjective experiences and objective understanding).

 

Why is questioning a subject "stupid" or "superstitious"?  In my opinion, the stupid people DO NOT question, they just accept things blindly.  I am not even questioning anything that seems basic, or to be taken for granted, like gravity, space, existing as a human being, etc.  I am questioning a NARRATIVE pushed out by a government organization in a time when this government was hugely deceitful and corrupt.  I am not saying the narrative is 100% false.  Something can be 75% true and 25% false, but still be deceptive.  Cult leaders often fuse the truth with a lie, and that generally gives them more power than just lying all the time, which is really obvious to most people.   I agree with you, flat earthers are pretty stupid.  However, I can almost see where flat earthers are coming from -- since we have been lied to SO MUCH by our government, our education systems, our media... it almost wouldn't be surprising to find out the Earth really was flat.  Yet of course that is ridiculous, but this highlights how ridiculous the lying has gotten in the last century, like I said earlier.

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36 minutes ago, futuredaze said:

Comparing flat earthers to people who question the mainstream moon landing narrative is a big stretch.

 

I disagree. The mindset that says the Moon landing was faked is exactly the mindset that believes in a flat Earth. As regards the Moon landing, we're not talking about ancient history. There are literally hundreds of millions if not more than a billion people alive today who were alive when it happened. For it to have been faked without a single person confessing the charade is absurd.

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I see people who disbelieve in the 6 moon landings pretty much the same way you see flat earthers..ie pretty stupid.  Close to the same thing, ignoring an overwhelming body of evidence and constructing an impossibly complex conspiracy theory.   <that's probably overly harsh on my part, but guess I have issues with it>

 

Questioning is fine, it's great, but if you have a strong and paranoid agenda, you'll be blind to answers.  You can study the plans and building of the 6 moon landings in incredible detail.   The 10,000's of thousand of people involved are still alive.  One can trace the beginnings and steps.  You can see the evidence, talk to the people.    Learn the problems they faced and how they overcame them.

 

You can also see the fruits of there progress by where we are now, ie the space station, multiple countries sending probes and vehicles to different planets and asteroids. 

 

The truth is clear and easy if you have an open mind, you can study how and why it happened, first hand.  You can learn from people who've been in space and designed crafts.   I'm in Chicago, where they have the Adler planetarium, you can go there and see the history of human learning, how it evolved, problems given and solved.

 

You don't trust the government so.. one of mankinds greatest achievements is null and void to you.  Oh well... your loss cause learning about space, its history, the engineers and researchers who solved and continue to solve real hard problems is fascinating.  The now of it, the cutting edge science thats being done.  It's inspiring.  Hopeful even. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by thelerner
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