Daemon

Probiotic Appreciation Study Group

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Posted (edited)

I've copied this now edited post over from the Tea Appreciation Study Group thread order to avoid hijacking an excellent conversation amongst a group of tea connoisseurs. I'm just a tea pleb, so I can really only read and learn from them.

 

There may also be some master brooch brewers or biochemists here. If so, I'm hoping that I might also learn something from them or at least from others beginning brewers like me.

 

____________________________

On 28/02/2018 at 11:53 PM, Daemon said:

I just drink ordinary black (but organic) conventionally brewed tea (adulterated with milk and sugar) but I also mix black, white and green organic teas (2:2:6 spoon ratio for 3 litres of nutrient solution) and ferment that mix into kombucha for the health effects (as well as the great taste).

 

I've got a 2 x 8 litre continuous brewer setup with a third that I use as a SCOBY hotel.

 

Started the booch about a year ago doing 2 litre batch brews but almost immediately switched to my first 8 litre continuous brewer and very quickly added the second and third. Couldn't keep up the maintenance on all three and retired the third as a hotel/vinegar brewer. It was a very steep learning curve but well worth the effort.

 

Can help with more detail if anyone's interested in giving it a go themselves.

Edited by Daemon
to improve clarity.
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Alanna-About-Page1.jpg

Alanna Collen is a science writer with a PhD in evolutionary biology from University College London and the author of the life-changing popular science book 10% Human: How your body’s microbes hold the key to health and happiness.

She is a well-travelled zoologist, an expert in bat echolocation, and an accidental collector of tropical diseases.

Alanna has written for the Sunday Times Magazine, the Guardian, and the Huffington Post, as well as about wildlife for ARKive.org. She has appeared on numerous radio and television programmes, including BBC Radio 4’s Tribes of Science and Saturday Live, and BBC One’s adventure-wildlife show Lost Land of the Volcano. She lives in Bedfordshire with her husband.

Alanna is currently working on her second popular science book, Fatology: Why fat is not all about food, which is due to be published by HarperCollins in 2018.

http://alannacollen.com/alanna-bio/

 

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I once saw a recommendation by another Daobum for Hyperbiotics, which is a special type that allows for a timed release, so that more probiotics make it into the gut.

I've used them successfully (both the pro-15 and advanced strength with kiwifruit)...sometimes due to stress and poor diet, the bowels will be in really bad shape, but that product gets it back to normal right away.

On a side note...I think that the "low fodmap" diet would help someone with gut health, too.

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In terms of optimising the enteric nervous system, establishing and supporting a happy colony of benevolent microorganisms is probably the most important practice.

 

To complete the details of my own current receipe for booch; for a 3 litre batch of nute, I also use distilled water and 260g of ordinary white sugar plus 20g of pure, organic, unrefined sugar (rapadura).

 

☮️

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For anyone considering brewing their own booch, it's important to realise that it's powerful stuff, especially if you use the continuous brewing method, which will produce ingredients that cannot accumulate in the limited timeframe of batch brewing.
This is NOT like most of the weak, watery commercial booch and care must be taken when starting to consume it because it can annihilate the pathogenic microorganisms with which some people's guts are colonised. If this happens then the the toxins that these pathogens release on death can be highly problematic (the same issue may occur with kefir consumption and with the use of commercial probiotics). Therefore, it's essential to start slowly with low doses and to monitor the effects. For most people the following schedule is, as far as I'm aware, the norm. However, for many, even the gradual 2-week acclimatization at these doses can prove to be far too much.

 

Week 1
Half a small glass per day (about 125ml) but obviously you should stop immediately and seek medical help if you have an abreaction.

Week 2
Assuming all is well after Week 1, you can progress to one small glass per day (about 250ml) but still observing appropriate caution.

Week 3
Again, assuming all went well in Week 2, you can probably now drink as much as you like.

 

It's also worth noting that there's anecdotal evidence that the anecdotally extensive benefits of booch consumption can take months or years to manifest. It's also just one support for the body's natural healing and it's natural functioning and it's certainly not a magic bullet or a universal panacea, as some seem to believe.

 

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Posted (edited)

I brewed both Jun & Kkombucha for a while and would like to again.

 

I was really into it for a while, consuming from 1 quart to a gallon of finished product a day. 

 

I needed it, It was good for me. I started a sitting mediation practice shortly after I started brewing and might not have gotten far with that had I not started cleansing with the KT & Jun, not to mention the yogurt that could also convert into analogues of either KT or Jun that I originated out of "thin air" using my newly discovered intuition that I was able to better get in touch with thanks to the probiotic beverages.

 

I have reason to believe that these beverages help in demineralizing neurons along with conditioning a clean and healthy enteric system. 

 

My daughter removed a wart on her finger in a matter of days. We watched it shrink into oblivion noticeably smaller everyday until it was gone forever within a week. I gave her an eye dropper full of KT which she diligently used to apply a couple of drops a few times a day. She kept it under a bandaid that had K on the pad.

 

A word of caution- rinse your mouth with water after drinking KT or Jun. Your teeth will start breaking off in chunks.

 

KT is a highly acidic solution containing a wide variety of organic acids perfectly capable and proficient at dissolving calcium based compounds into solution, and from my OWN experience that includes teeth.

 

It is almost as acidic as Apple cider vinegar. If you let your brew go to long it will essentially become vinegar. I've used old KT to dissolve thick abalone shells that I could hardly break to size with a rock. Both KT & Jun vinegar made short work of dissolving the shell. I use the resulting water soluble calcium rich solution diluted in water to give to plants.

 

Point being it's very easy and effective to rinse and swallow a couple of mouth fulls of water after you're  done enjoying your sparkling beverage.

 

"Jun" bevarage for those of you who don't know is a kombucha like beverage that some say was originated by Laozi himself.

 

Maybe, or maybe not? We will never know but it's pretty yummy as well as good for you. Its made with a Jun scoby, green tea, and honey instead.

 

Brew time is shorter, the fizz is more of a champagne like fizz than KT and the taste is noticabley different.

 

 

 

 

Edited by ion
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Great topic, Daemon!

Is the continuous brewing method described somewhere? I am very curious...

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Posted (edited)

I make kefir myself, with raw cow’s milk. It’s one of the few foods that contain vitamin K (along with other fermented foods). The typical American diet is deficient in Vitamin K, and I hypothesize that this causes osteoporosis. Could even cause brain issues like Alzheimer’s or others due to the calcification of glands.

 

For the booch makers... why booch over kefir? Is it healthier?

Edited by cmpunk50
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@cheya

 

This is a photo of a the type of container that I use (mine hold 8 litres, which is apparently about the minimum volume required for the continuous method, according to Crumb & LaGory).

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsFl9WeTgal6WMDVMqwfy

 

This is an outline of the continuous method. I learned how to do it myself by experimenting with the method given in The Big Book of Kombucha by Crumb & LaGory.

 

618DEQkpUCL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

I hope that's enough detail for now, so that you could gather the necessary materials if you want to give it go yourself?

 

☮️

 

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Posted (edited)

@cmpunk50

 

I brew (organic whole milk) kefir as well.

The difference between the two is that apparently the kefir is skewed towards providing beneficial microorganisms and the kombucha towards providing various nutrients including some quite unusual organic and inorganic acids. If you go for a secondary ferment with the kombucha, it's claimed that the process also makes it easier to absorb whatever you've added to the secondary ferment (e.g. medicinal herbs). Unfortunately, I'm neither a microbiologhist nor a biochemist, so I can't vouch for that myself.

As a far as kefir is concerned, the culture that I was given was taken to the microbiology department of a very prestigious university in 1980 and the verdict was that nobody knew what it was (other than it appeared to be a colony of microorganisms). It was also said that it would require the work equivalent of a PhD thesis to begin to properly unravel it's mysteries. I decided to take the risk and just started taking it myself according to the accompanying instructions and now, nearly 40 years later, fortunately my health is still excellent and kefir's not nearly so bizarre and it's generally well-accepted as being beneficial. Booch however, is still considered quite odd!

Another interesting fact is that every colony of booch and kefir will be slightly different (as is every sourdough starter), so that makes any serious scientific investigation of potential health benefits quite complex (probably far too complex in the case of kombucha).

 

☮️

 

Edited by Daemon
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2 hours ago, Daemon said:

@cheya

 

This is a photo of a the type of container that I use (mine hold 8 litres, which is apparently about the minimum volume required for the continuous method, according to Crumb & LaGory).

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsFl9WeTgal6WMDVMqwfy

 

This is an outline of the continuous method. I learned how to do it myself by experimenting with the method given in The Big Book of Kombucha by Crumb & LaGory.

 

618DEQkpUCL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

I hope that's enough detail for now, so that you could gather the necessary materials if you want to give it go yourself?

 

☮️

 

 

I might have to try making this. Thanks!

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They can't really cone to anything concrete about homebrew cultures of synergistic cronies of MO's that aren't continuously kept in sterile conditions. 

 

 

Its the same thing with the system of agriculture I practice called Natural Farming. Its macrobiotic farming or biological horticulture. Every practitioner collects and cultures MO'sfrom forests local to them and ends up with different organisms.

 

kefir and kombucha, Jun, ACV, yogurt and whatever else are all different.

 

Kombucha Tea is super potent and by far the most acidic. It is known for alkalinizing the digestive tract, detoxing, joint relief, and killing and displacing pathogenic MO's like candidia yeasts. KT containing beneficial wild yeasts, some lactic acid bacteria, acetobacter. The high sugar co,tent favors the yeasts whose, byproduct(alcohol) favors acetobacter whose products favor other acid producing bacterial.

 

Kefir is more loaded up with lactic acid bacterias, different ones than in KT or yogurt. Lactic acid bacteria are good for diversionary can colonize the digestive tractors pathogens wont.

 

They all have similarities and differences, and if you can you should use them all.

 

After making KT for a while in any new region the brew will start to select native microorganisms from that area. Mostly local lactic acidbacterias and wild yeast strains.

 

KT contains a bacteria that is only found in kombucha. It came into existence or evolved into existence in the micro environment of a kombucha brew. Its not found anywhere else except in KT. I forget the name of the organism.

 

But each is also different because of the substrates they are made from. Milk is full of a different mix of compounds that are going to be converted into different things. It's difficult for yeasts to metabolize the lactose and proteins in milk, and the by product of lactose (milk sugar ) metabolization is lactic acid, not alcohol. With no alcohol, no acetic acid is produced so the end concoctions are way different.

 

Btw. Homebrews of any of these are farm more effective and potent than the stuff you can buy at the market.

 

I used a bottle of Dave's KT to use as starter to brew a batch. It produced a scoby but never produced alcohol or got sour.

 

Leads me to believe that they pasteurized it killing everything benificial off, and then they add a certain amount of certain bacteria

back, but not each type and none of the yeasts before selling it.

 

Nothing made me more healthy and clean feeling than a yogurt I made, but yogurt from the store never makes,me feel healthy and clean.

 

I've looked at my yogurt under the microscope and it was teaming with life. I looked at some store

bought yogurt, Brown Cow was the brand and there was hardly any activity. The bacteria I saw were few and comparably lethargic seeming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Be real careful using a continuous brew set up. Make sure any plastic and rubber fittings are chemical resistant and  be sure to make SURE all the metal is stainless steal.

 

Otherwise I hate to tell you but your also drinking plastic, plasticizers, rubber, and metallic compounds all of which would out weigh any benefits of the tea.

 

Edit-meaning if you buy an inexpensive apparatus that is sold as a drink dispenser that is intended for using for iced tea or lemonade than it is not likely made for holding alcohol and strong acids.

 

HDPE, and PP are OK plastics.  I believe that those are marked #2, and #5.

 

A stainless steal dispensing spout is essential with the right kind of rubber gaskets.

 

If you buy everything at a homebrew shop they use all the right plastics, rubbers, and metal.

 

Even if your not using a continuous brew set up

up, make sure the container is made of real glass, and just glass, not like a glass vase or something that might be leaded.

Edited by ion
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Following this thread with interest.

Not sure if this is relevant but my acupuncturist, who cured my 2 decades long hay fever in half an hour, advised me to start taking good quality acidophilus and consuming sauerkraut.

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Posted (edited)

Home made sauerkraut, or homemade Kim Chi.

 

Store bought stuff is often not fermented.

 

Lots of stuff we consider as garbage, junk food used to be probiotic  and good for you.

 

Sourkraut, pickles, ketchup, mayo, soda, and more were fermented foods containing live  probiotics that were really good for you, but even when purchasing tthese as organic products nowadays it's all junk food.

 

Soda used to be made by the lactic acid bacteria and yeasts found on ginger root.

 

You'd make a starter by adding cut ginger to sugar water; that was called the "ginger bug", bug= micro organisms.

 

with that as a starter you could then brew up sasparilla or whatever.

Edited by ion
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Posted (edited)

You can also,make sasparilla or root beer with a kombucha culture.

 

You can make really good beer really quickly with kombucha too.

 

The yeast in KT make alcohol that is usually instantly,converted into acetic acid by the acetobacter bacteria.

 

You can alter the balance to favor the yeast or bacteria in your brew several ways.

 

Steeping your tea to long or using too much tea will favor the yeast because of the tannins. That will cause your brew to be very bubbly, and put holes in the scoby but won make an alcoholic beverage.

 

Hops is a bacterial suppressant  that's why they began using it to make beer in the pre sterile days 100's of years ago. Its discovery led to more constant and stable brews.

 

So tomake a nice IPA use the same amount of sugar in the water, no tea at all but boil up some hops to add the sugar too.

 

Filter That then add you starter with fresh hops.

 

I did it in half Half gallon jars which I sealed off with press & seal that I secured on by screwing the band over the press and seal tightly.

 

Press and seal actually allows gas to pass through it, so when pressure builds up in the jar it will cause the press and seal to form a dome, but will not pop because the co2 Will slowly escape allowing nothing else to enter.

 

I made,my beer without any brewing equipment other than a jar and press and seal.

 

I don't drink alcohol any more though, but it made a fantastic IPA.

Edited by ion
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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, ion said:

Be real careful using a continuous brew set up. Make sure any plastic and rubber fittings are chemical resistant and  be sure to make SURE all the metal is stainless steal.

 

Otherwise I hate to tell you but your also drinking plastic, plasticizers, rubber, and metallic compounds all of which would out weigh any benefits of the tea.

 

Edit-meaning if you buy an inexpensive apparatus that is sold as a drink dispenser that is intended for using for iced tea or lemonade than it is not likely made for holding alcohol and strong acids.

 

HDPE, and PP are OK plastics.  I believe that those are marked #2, and #5.

 

A stainless steal dispensing spout is essential with the right kind of rubber gaskets.

 

If you buy everything at a homebrew shop they use all the right plastics, rubbers, and metal.

 

Even if your not using a continuous brew set up

up, make sure the container is made of real glass, and just glass, not like a glass vase or something that might be leaded.

 

 

Quoted for emphasis!

 

Thank you for this and for your other extremely helpful and interesting contributions. Incidentally, I was told that rubber is entirely unsafe for brewing or storing kombucha if it's in direct contact but that silicone is safe. So if you store booch in bottles with rubber seals, they should be stored upright. Although, I wouldn't risk it at all myself.

It's probably also worth noting that not all stainless steel is suitable and that only high-grade (therefore highly acid-resistant) stainless steels can be used.

I had a very long conversation with one of the owners of the company from which I bought my SCOBY because I was made aware of the same concerns that you've set out. I was assured that using Kilner drink dispensers is safe. Despite that, I've been intending to move to using pottery jars or wood casks and wooden taps or at least cobbling together some way of using wooden taps (in cork inserts) because I've noticed that the (food safe) silicone seals discolour. This might simply be tea stains  but, I prefer to be certain of eliminating the other possibility.

Incidentally, pottery glazes can be also be toxic, so it's important to be aware of that as well.

It's occurred to me that the safest way to continuous brew would probably be in pyrex glass without any taps and by introducing a food-safe syphon tube briefly to harvest the 3 litre batches that I've found to be optimal for my 8 litre setup.

 

☮️

 

Edited by Daemon
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My kefir grains are quite choosy. I usually make kefir from goat milk, but sometimes there is a break in supply and i have to buy cow milk. The grains would not eat cow milk, they rather starve then eat it. Not sure why.

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I find there's a period of acclimatisation even in switching from organic whole milk to organic reduced fat milk.

In your case, are you using organic milk because most cows milk has a degree of antibiotic contamination (and other unpleasant chemicals), which is why kefir only really thrives on organic milk.

Another factor may be that if you evolve your kefir grains into water kefir grains, I've heard that they cannot be returned to being milk kefir grains again, although I'm not sure about that myself, as I've never tried to produce water kefir grains. Perhaps if you turn your cows' milk kefir grains into goats' milk grains, they cannot be turned back to being cows' milk grains again?

 

☮️

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Posted (edited)

Pu-Erh Tea !

 

While tasting good and appears good for my digestion, and yes it's fermented ... but I question the actual amount of legit probiotic strains it contains...

Edited by Fa Xin

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I'm a big fan of kombucha. I was brewing my own for the better half of this year, but my brew got infected with something that gave me a severe food poisoning episode and set my whole gut into disarray. 

 

I'll be restarting when I have better conditions to brew in. At the moment, I don't have adequate space with good enough airflow to make it properly it seems.

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58 minutes ago, Maybe said:

I'm a big fan of kombucha. I was brewing my own for the better half of this year, but my brew got infected with something that gave me a severe food poisoning episode and set my whole gut into disarray. 

 

I'll be restarting when I have better conditions to brew in. At the moment, I don't have adequate space with good enough airflow to make it properly it seems.

 

Thanks for your review, that is what i am kind of scared of. Is there a way to test it before drinking it to make sure it is safe? 

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2 minutes ago, Seatle185 said:

Thanks for your review, that is what i am kind of scared of. Is there a way to test it before drinking it to make sure it is safe? 



Generally you can see any type of disturbance in the SCOBY as you're brewing it. If it's mold, it's clearly mold. Yeast will make it look off as well.

When it comes to what happened in my brew, it was too close to the area where I prepare food, and some kind of bacteria must've gotten in. If you practice general safety and sanitation with it, you'll be alright.

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