Goodbye

[Marblehead]

2 minutes ago, phil said:

As believes / belief systems work like filters, only letting in those aspects of reality we are convinced to be true and to exist, I see it quite the opposite way: Believing is seeing. 

 

Yep, that's the way it is for many people.  Our mind, because we believe strongly is something, will manifest it in our brain and we will believe we are seeing that whatever.  This is a reality so I can't argue against it.

 

But I will suggest that when this happens we are allowing ourself to become distracted with illusion and delusion.  Yes, distracted from living our life according to the processes of nature.  There will be, in most cases, negative repercussions.

 

[allinone]

16 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Seeing that in your post was a shocker.  I thought you are an Atheist.

 

Close your eyes.  Your eyes can no longer see.  Anything you think you see is just your mind doing its thing.

 

But anyhow, in empty-minded meditation the eyes and mind are closed.  No input.  No judgements.

 

 

I believe in God as higher power. Aliens. Extraterrestials. Maybe there is even humanoids in undeground etc you get the point.

Trees have energy etc.

 

Christianity as religion is for influence, politics and stuff. So its important to know what it is, so i choose forests so i am Pagan.

[Marblehead]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[allinone]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Thanks for clarifying.

 

 

do you believe in humanoids and creators who live in other places than Erath and this galaxy?

[Marblehead]

Just now, allinone said:

 

do you believe in humanoids and creators who live in other places than Erath and this galaxy?

No.

 

However, I cannot deny the probability that there are life forms, many of them advanced, living on/within other solar systems throughout the universe.

 

But these would not be what we could call humanoids.  Different life forms based on the capabilities of the planet on which they evolved.

 

[phil]

52 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

 

Yep, that's the way it is for many people.  Our mind, because we believe strongly is something, will manifest it in our brain and we will believe we are seeing that whatever.  This is a reality so I can't argue against it.

 

But I will suggest that when this happens we are allowing ourself to become distracted with illusion and delusion.  Yes, distracted from living our life according to the processes of nature.  There will be, in most cases, negative repercussions.

 

I don't know if it´s really just that way, but we could probably philosophize about this endlessly.. 

 

It's just that imho there is good reason to see ones belief system as the fundament of ones subjective reality (and there is always the question if an objective reality exists at all). 

The succession goes like this: Your believes about reality determine your thoughts, your thoughts determine your actions, your actions determine your character, habits, personality etc.. I think this is obvious. 

 

According to the reality we perceive: You are speaking of illusion and delusion if we let our believes define the reality we are seeing, but isn't this how everyones reality is created? No matter if your believes are conscious or subconscious they are the fundamental factor which forms the reality. In Germany we have a saying or dictum which translates to "Life is hard". If you are a five year old child and your parents tell you that life is hard you believe them because they are your authorities and so you take it for granted. If you don't reconsider this opinion your will see life from that moment as hard and difficult and, I think this might be the most interesting point, you will attract circumstances that confirm this point of view, because humans are mostly communicating non-verbal and unconscious and you show your believes all the time, even those you are not aware of.. and others respond to them in the way that it fits your believes. 

      This is just one facet of it, but I think there is a lot more playing a role. For example, seeing thoughts as a form of energy that does not only exist in your head but is sent out into the world, meeting other forms of energy, attracting and repelling other energies, then the opportunities we have to create a life worth living, a life that suits our wishes, are endless. Of course this requires total honesty to oneself and ones believes and it's a constant digging in subconscious patterns so that they come to light and can be replaced by a conscious decision, but in my experience this allows one to have a direct and profound impact on your whole life-situation and with it comes the realization that if you change yourself you change the outer world as it seems to be only  a reflection. Question remains if it is just an illusion, but if it is, then it is an illusion that is created from a conscious decision and I think that a conscious observation on how reality is created is one way to find out about the deeper, underlaying structures of existence. 

But just my opinion and experience of course.. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by phil

[Marblehead]

9 minutes ago, phil said:

I don't know if it´s really just that way, but we could probably philosophize about this endlessly..

It wasn't my intention to get you all fired up.  Nice response though.  Let's see how well I can respond to it.

 

9 minutes ago, phil said:

It's just that imho there is good reason to see ones belief system as the fundament of ones subjective reality (and there is always the question if an objective reality exists at all).

True that for most people.  And then Lao Tzu told us to forget knowledge.  This includes all the beliefs that were taught to us when we were younger.  Forget subjectivity, start fresh based on objective reality.

 

9 minutes ago, phil said:

The succession goes like this: Your believes about reality determine your thoughts, your thoughts determine your actions, your actions determine your character, habits, personality etc.. I think this is obvious.

Agree.  However, when our actions are based in the thoughts that were inserted by others without us questioning them it is well possible that we are going to be very prejudiced and narrow-minded.  Better to have no thoughts.

 

9 minutes ago, phil said:

According to the reality we perceive: You are speaking of illusion and delusion if we let our believes define the reality we are seeing, but isn't this how everyones reality is created? No matter if your believes are conscious or subconscious they are the fundamental factor which forms the reality. In Germany we have a saying or dictum which translates to "Life is hard". If you are a five year old child and your parents tell you that life is hard you believe them because they are your authorities and so you take it for granted. If you don't reconsider this opinion your will see life from that moment as hard and difficult and, I think this might be the most interesting point, you will attract circumstances that confirm this point of view, because humans are mostly communicating non-verbal and unconscious and you show your believes all the time, even those you are not aware of.. and others respond to them in the way that it fits your believes.

Human life is absurd but it is still worth living. - Albert Camus

 

Yes, for nearly all of us illusions and delusions area part of our belief system.  I won't pass judgement here because for many people these illusions and delusions help them cope with "their" reality.

 

But I still think it would be better if we could create an environment in which to live such that we need no illusions or delusions.

 

I have stated before that I too have my illusions and delusions but I know what they are.  I let them play here at home.  But whenever I go out into the world of other people I leave my illusions and delusions home (I never leave home with them) because my reality is not compatible with much of what I must interact with when I go out and about.

 

9 minutes ago, phil said:

This is just one facet of it, but I think there is a lot more playing a role. For example, seeing thoughts as a form of energy that does not only exist in your head but is sent out into the world, meeting other forms of energy, attracting and repelling other energies, then the opportunities we have to create a life worth living, a life that suits our wishes, are endless. Of course this requires total honesty to oneself and ones believes and it's a constant digging in subconscious patterns so that they come to light and can be replaced by a conscious decision, but in my experience this allows one to have a direct and profound impact on your whole life-situation and with it comes the realization that if you change yourself you change the outer world as it seems to be only  a reflection. Question remains if it is just an illusion, but if it is, then it is an illusion that is created from a conscious decision and I think that a conscious observation on how reality is created is one way to find out about the deeper, underlaying structures of existence.

Ah!  Energy.  Chi.

 

We pretty much agree here.  And this can be proven objectively.  But I will suggest that these understanding should be based in objective reality and not in illusion, delusion, or mysticism.

 

9 minutes ago, phil said:

But just my opinion and experience of course.. 

Well, you did good.  We really don't have many differences in understandings.

 

[Brian]

My experience/understanding is that our field of vision expands and clarifies as we remove the blinders and filters we have constructed (usually with

well-intentioned assistance).

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, Brian said:

My experience/understanding is that our field of vision expands and clarifies as we remove the blinders and filters we have constructed (usually with

well-intentioned assistance).

Reading Nietzsche helped me remove the blinders.

 

[phil]

17 minutes ago, Brian said:

My experience/understanding is that our field of vision expands and clarifies as we remove the blinders and filters we have constructed (usually with

well-intentioned assistance).

Yes, and the assistance can be found everywhere I think, the important thing is to allow it  Of course meditation is also that tool in this regard 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Reading Nietzsche helped me remove the blinders.

 

Little fun-fact.. As I am studying philosophy I did an online test to find out which philosopher is in consensus to my own thoughts of existence and Nietzsche was ranked last place, 0% match 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by phil

[Brian]

13 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Reading Nietzsche helped me remove the blinders.

 

Yes, that sort of thing can help, as long as one understands this tends to replace one set of beliefs with another.

[Brian]

3 minutes ago, phil said:

Yes, and the assistance can be found everywhere I think, the important thing is to allow it  Of course meditation is also that tool in this regard 

Little fun-fact.. As I am studying philosophy I did an online test to find out which philosopher is in consensus to my own thoughts of existence and Nietzsche was ranked last place, 0% match 

 

Post that online test in a new thread -- it might be fun!

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, Brian said:

Yes, that sort of thing can help, as long as one understands this tends to replace one set of beliefs with another.

But then I started reading Taoism and this required me to dismiss all beliefs.  (I still don't believe a particle can be a wave.  Hehehe.)

[Marblehead]

8 minutes ago, phil said:

Little fun-fact.. As I am studying philosophy I did an online test to find out which philosopher is in consensus to my own thoughts of existence and Nietzsche was ranked last place, 0% match 

 

Ha!  I would have to suggest that the test was very faulty.

 

(I won't suggest that you weren't answering the questions honestly.)

 

[phil]

7 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Ha!  I would have to suggest that the test was very faulty.

 

(I won't suggest that you weren't answering the questions honestly.)

 

Did a new thread on that in the Rabbit Hole as Brian suggested, you are free to try the test for yourself ;-) 

[silent thunder]

Reality tunnels seems the most functional phrase for me to describe the process of how I as a human absorb, process and store sensory information as reality.

 

 

Quote

 

Every kind of ignorance in the world all results from not realizing that our perceptions are gambles. We believe what we see and then we believe our interpretation of it, we don't even know we are making an interpretation most of the time. We think this is reality. – Robert Anton Wilson^[2][3]

The idea does not necessarily imply that there is no objective truth; rather that our access to it is mediated through our senses, experience, conditioning, prior beliefs, and other non-objective factors. The implied individual world each person occupies is said to be their reality tunnel. The term can also apply to groups of people united by beliefs: we can speak of the fundamentalist Christian reality tunnel or the ontological naturalist reality tunnel.

 

 

As I seem to be unwilling to summon the energy put it in my own words this morning, I share this quote out of a desire to respond with a minimum of engaging the formative mind.

 

I do contend that among phenomena, there seem to be phenomena that have objective parameters, such as the bench at our kitchen table, on which my ass rests now as I type this seems solid and anyone who's sat on it seems to agree to this...  yet this bench causes my wife's bum considerable discomfort when she rests on it, and when I sit there, I'm comfortable... what is the reality of the bench?  We all seem to agree that fire is hot, yet the thermal vents where extremophiles live in comfort, would boil the flesh from my bones.  Which one is reality? 

 

Confirmation bias seems a driving factor that shades our subjective versions of some seemingly objective situational phenomena. 

 

ugh... that process was subjectively unpleasant... it almost hurt.  [yoda voice]Maybe later again I'll try...[/yoda voice]

 

[phil]

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

as the bench at our kitchen table, on which my ass rests now as I type this seems solid and anyone who's sat on it seems to agree to this... 

 it's interesting that if you zoom and zoom and zoom at the bench it isn't solid at all, just some waves or whatever, probably even dependent on if you observe it or not. So what I also find highly interesting is that our body and those normal, body-integrated senses we have are tuned to only that part of reality we are able to perceive.  This is nothing new, but it simply shows that if we had other senses we would perceive what we call reality in a totally other way. 

There are of course other senses one can cultivate to perceive more aspects of the world. Everyone who had precognitive dreams or some kind of intuition for example knows that time and space are not that static as we were taught and that there are connections between life-forces that are not bound to time and space.

And coming back to the believes I wonder what would happen if our parents and teacher would have told us in our childhood that things like time and space are flexible, that everything is connected, everything is energy, things like telepathy are possible and things like that. Would  reality show that those things are true? I think yes, and I think slowly and steady the world is on it's way to realize those aspects of reality, but in its usual slow speed. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by phil

[Starjumper]

4 hours ago, Marblehead said:

However, I cannot deny the probability that there are life forms, many of them advanced, living on/within other solar systems throughout the universe.

 

But these would not be what we could call humanoids.  Different life forms based on the capabilities of the planet on which they evolved.

 

Thank you for your inquiry, I answered in this thread:  

 

[Marblehead]

Yep.  You sure did answer, didn't you?

 

I encountered a woman once who had a name label pinned on her dress that read "Mars".

 

I asked her if she really was from Mars and she said "No, I'm from Venus."

 

 

[Starjumper]

Some of those Venusians are pretty nice.

[allinone]

21 hours ago, Marblehead said:

No.

 

However, I cannot deny the probability that there are life forms, many of them advanced, living on/within other solar systems throughout the universe.

 

But these would not be what we could call humanoids.  Different life forms based on the capabilities of the planet on which they evolved.

 

 

whatever, you didn't get what i wanted to tell.

 

Feelings, channels. Like when you cringe it is a channel you go through and it is situation, location and time dependent too so eventually you can replay these things in your head and don't need to go through painful events anymore.

 

So the God channel what is basically the situation where you are the dumber and helpless one, so you activate, go through, purify these types of channels where you are the low key.

Edited September 5, 2017 by allinone

[Marblehead]

7 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

whatever, you didn't get what i wanted to tell.

 

Feelings, channels. Like when you cringe it is a channel you go through and it is situation, location and time dependent too so eventually you can replay these things in your head and don't need to go through painful events anymore.

 

So the God channel what is basically the situation where you are the dumber and helpless one, so you activate, go through, purify these types of channels where you are the low key.

Yeah, well, sometimes we have to work at it a little before we begin to understand what the other is wanting to talk about.

 

As I am an Atheist I don't use the word "God" often and that is almost only when someone else has used it first.

 

And really, I don't talk about channels either.

 

But I do talk about myself often and regularly share my life experiences with others with the intent of causing them to think.

 

Yes, I have feelings; I have emotions; I have personal biases.

 

And yes, I do try to remember my lessons in life so that I don't have to experience the bad times over and over again.

 

However, I have never been dumb or helpless.  And, as an Anarchist I have always done my own thing.  For a long time now I have been the center of my universe.  It wasn't always that way.  But my many experiences proved to me that I must always attend to myself first.  Then, with reserve energy I can attend to others' needs if appropriate.

 

I don't spend a lot of time any more wondering how I should live; I just live and accept the results.

 

[allinone]

22 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, well, sometimes we have to work at it a little before we begin to understand what the other is wanting to talk about.

 

As I am an Atheist I don't use the word "God" often and that is almost only when someone else has used it first.

 

And really, I don't talk about channels either.

 

But I do talk about myself often and regularly share my life experiences with others with the intent of causing them to think.

 

Yes, I have feelings; I have emotions; I have personal biases.

 

And yes, I do try to remember my lessons in life so that I don't have to experience the bad times over and over again.

 

However, I have never been dumb or helpless.  And, as an Anarchist I have always done my own thing.  For a long time now I have been the center of my universe.  It wasn't always that way.  But my many experiences proved to me that I must always attend to myself first.  Then, with reserve energy I can attend to others' needs if appropriate.

 

I don't spend a lot of time any more wondering how I should live; I just live and accept the results.

 

 

You don't still get it tho. I will change the subject a bit.

 

Well there is this thing of negativity and not accepting your positive help. Because the positive help you offer is counterproductive.

 

The entire combat like attacking is looked as negative act. But it is not. It is for protection, when someone try to brainwash peeps with positivity and acceptance its is actually the positive guy is try to pull out the warm energy from the negative person, in order to make it positive but it is actually you make it lose that persons energy if that person don't know how to put it back.

 

It can be expressed better i'm sure.

 

The channels and feelings cultivation without spending more warmth energy but packing it in order to use it in your own mind field to overcome and turn the tides.

 

It is not wrong if positive people try to pull out the warmth from negative, because its how negative gets information easy experience and learns but the thing is negative person is not able to defend audioable so also the positives could learn, because positives will see it as evil acts and ban and suspendable, offecive.

Edited September 5, 2017 by allinone

[allinone]

celibacy and solitary practice is mandatory in between interactions and other actions in order to be able to these acts in your own mind later and not need to suffer because of the consequences of these actions in that time and space.

Edited September 5, 2017 by allinone

[Marblehead]

12 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

You don't still get it tho.

Well, you can't say I didn't try.

 

12 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

I will change the subject a bit.

That might help.

 

12 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

Well there is this thing of negativity and not accepting your positive help. Because the positive help you offer is counterproductive.

Okay.  Talking about energy.  I don't reinforce negativity.  And I accept that things I say are not always helpful.

 

12 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

The entire combat like attacking is looked as negative act. But it is not. It is for protection, when someone try to brainwash peeps with positivity and acceptance its is actually the positive guy is try to pull out the warm energy from the negative person, in order to make it positive but it is actually you make it lose that persons energy if that person don't know how to put it back.

Combat?  I don't like to compete.  But I can.  Yes, I know that often if one does not say what the other is expecting what was said can appear to be negativity.  This is even more so on internet forums such as this one.  One on one personal encounters can mostly be more productive.

 

12 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

It can be expressed better i'm sure.

Well, you know that if we continue talking we eventually gain an understand of the other's thoughts.

 

12 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

The channels and feelings cultivation without spending more warmth energy but packing it in order to use it in your own mind field to overcome and turn the tides.

Yes, energy input will cause many effects.  Sometimes they are not the desired effects.

 

12 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

It is not wrong if positive people try to pull out the warmth from negative, because its how negative gets information easy experience and learns but the thing is negative person is not able to defend audioable so also the positives could learn, because positives will see it as evil acts and ban and suspendable, offecive.

Important is if people talk "with" each other rather than talking "to" each other.

 

I most times offer Yin energy.  It tends to harmonize with excessive Yang energy.