Tibetan_Ice

Is rigpa really that simple?

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I can only speak from my own experience, during a retreat last year I went to a deep place in meditation where there was nothing, entirely no self. My sense of self inevitably returned but it created quite a shock and threat to my system afterwards which reverberates even to today, and poses the existential question that if one minute it isn't there any more whether it actually exists in the first place

 

This is essential.  There are a number of experiences which will more or less shatter the continuity of the "normal world" in terms of personal experience.  Eventually, as it becomes "more" rather than "less", and that continuity is indeed permanently "broken", it creates a space or opening for awareness to functionally grow beyond the confines of the mind.  Its not an overnight prospect, although the suddenness or contrast of such experiences with the "normal world" is often the most memorable aspect and thus is more apparent in hindsight.  Yet the process initiated is like any other cultivation, like a plant growing from seed to sprout to flower.

 

This effect is the best reason (if not the only worthwhile one) to pursue "alternate" realities or siddhis or any of the other non-ordinary phenomena.  For example, a functional aspect of the sahasrara gives a 360 degree non-local (where presence arises with awareness, wherever it is placed) view of reality in its composition of rays and lights, i.e. energy flows, i.e. so called "dark matter".  The three aspects of all-directions, all-locations, all-apparent goes a very long way in breaking the hypnotic vice grip which the internal dialog imposes on the mind, as well as the instinctual imperatives which compel the energetic system to serve only the earthly cycle - although the latter is more like a ripening than a "breaking free"... as its all part of the plan rather than a revolt.  

 

This is usually impossible to fully understand until it becomes hindsight - although the intellectual idea of it can serve you well if you can truly agree with it.  Also, in many traditions it has been dramatized in various ways which certainly do emphasize the "one" vs "other" or "us" vs "them" type aspects.  Swimming upstream and so forth - its like resistance training for a certain task.  You need it until you dont - unlike resistance training so you can look like Mr. Universe, which by definition is an endless endeavor.

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What is rigpa?

Once again, here is one of my favorite people teaching Dzogchen.

 

Compare that to what Jax said about rigpa in the original post. Like night and day.

 

Wells, perhaps you should watch this video over and over till you get it..

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What is rigpa?

Once again, here is one of my favorite people teaching Dzogchen.

 

 

Having watched the video my understanding of what Alan Walace means by Rigpa is that Ripga is awareness from the perspective of awareness. 

 

Not awareness of awareness, but awareness from the view of awareness, being awareness

Edited by Jetsun

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Having watched the video my understanding of what Alan Walace means by Rigpa is that Ripga is awareness from the perspective of awareness. 

 

Not awareness of awareness, but awareness from the view of awareness, being awareness

There is still one more step.. See the previous video..

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"Almost every practice is a method to develop, not to understand. In Dzogchen the principle is that there is nothing more to understand."

 

 - from the Nail of Innate Awareness Emerging from Within - The Twenty-One Nails: Oral Commentaries by Lopon Tenzin Namdak and Tenzin Wangyal RInpoche

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There is still one more step.. See the previous video..

 

I am not aware of any further step from the additional video, unless you mean the cutting through, but the cutting through is the way towards Rigpa rather than being Rigpa itself

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I am not aware of any further step from the additional video, unless you mean the cutting through, but the cutting through is the way towards Rigpa rather than being Rigpa itself

Well if you mean that 'being awareness' is arrived at by cutting through then I think you've got it. However, it is easy to be aware of being aware without cutting through.

 

PHAT

 

:)

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Traditionally, by the time a practitioner received dzogchen teachings, the sutric and tantric views were already well established. The dzogchen view transcends the mind that understands, hence the comment that there is nothing more to understand.

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"The only perspective from which you can ascertain rigpa is rigpa. You can't ascertain it from the perspective of the coarse mind. And you can't ascertain from the perspective of the substrate consciousness either. It can only know itself. "

 

From Alan Wallace's "Pointing out instructions - Rigpa" at 10:40 in..

 

http://media.sbinstitute.com/courses/fall-2014/27-pointing-out-instructions-rigpa/.

 

Therefore, I conclude that Jax, who is claiming that the knowing of every experience is rigpa, is mistaken and has not understood nor differentiated between coarse mind conceptual grasping and the purity of rigpa. The examples he uses are all coarse mind examples being grasped by the subject. That is not rigpa. He also claims that meditation is not needed, there is nothing to practice... In other words, no need for trekchod, cutting through, shamatha, entering the natural state..

 

Yet he claims to be a certified Dzogchen teacher, given permission by C N Norbu to teach! It is too bad that there are people like that out there..

 

Here is the video again.. Now that you have enhanced your understanding of rigpa by reading this thread, do you still agree with Peterson?

 

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Technically you need to be able to get to the otherside of the experience. As you need to see what is there when haven't done it(whatever habit) and it has to be done without blinking out from the habitual baseline.

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Traditionally, by the time a practitioner received dzogchen teachings, the sutric and tantric views were already well established. The dzogchen view transcends the mind that understands, hence the comment that there is nothing more to understand.

 

it could be also that when you meet new people you should remain silent and wait till you are accepted to their circle. Maybe that is mistaken nowadays with highest practice there is.

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On 6/27/2016 at 12:13 PM, Tibetan_Ice said:

Jeff and Ralis,

If there are no degrees of Rigpa then why is there a distinction between son clear light and mother clear light?

 

For the sake of expressing the qualities of the view (through simile) to aspirants, for pointing towards and recognition purposes.  The loving mother (a "universally recognizable" symbol) holding the son expresses warmth (compassion) while the son expresses awareness.

 

They are not seperate "levels" (or "degrees") but inseparable qualities.

 

Yes, this is an old post, in an old (and at times contentious) thread, written by a member who hasn't been active in a very long time... 

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2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Does anyone else ever wonder where TI has wandered off to?

He git trolled so hard and embarrassed himself so in the sexcapades thread that he left.

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3 hours ago, Kar3n said:

sexcapades thread

Oh my, whatever was that all about? 

 

I had only one interaction with him and I guess that was on his way out.

 

Always wished he had stuck around to discuss more.

 

During my introductory writing as required on this site,  he remarked my view was was mostly Tantrik (Which Is technological means within the body) ( Kriya )   yet I was ripe for Dzogchen.

 

This stuck with me.

 

Over time life has proven he was correct.

 

Due to this I would like it if he were to return if nothing else to discuss in private and worthwhile or not to tell him, yes you were right. 

 

Beyond this I do not know Tibetan Ice but respect him.

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4 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Oh my, whatever was that all about? 

 

I had only one interaction with him and I guess that was on his way out.

 

Always wished he had stuck around to discuss more.

 

During my introductory writing as required on this site,  he remarked my view was was mostly Tantrik (Which Is technological means within the body) ( Kriya )   yet I was ripe for Dzogchen.

 

This stuck with me.

 

Over time life has proven he was correct.

 

Due to this I would like it if he were to return if nothing else to discuss in private and worthwhile or not to tell him, yes you were right. 

 

Beyond this I do not know Tibetan Ice but respect him.

 

You really don't want to know :)

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5 hours ago, Apech said:

You really don't want to know :)

I’ll take your word in it. Seems it was a bit of a messy time.

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6 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

I’ll take your word in it. Seems it was a bit of a messy time.

 

All active discussions with disagreement on the bums can get messy. Even though TI and I would disagree on various topics, I miss him here at the bums. He would always research his positions and supporting logic for them. Always an interesting discussion. :) 

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Posted (edited)

I miss him also.

The "messy" time was extraordinarily valuable for anyone willing to see.

We have the ability to convince ourselves, and others, that we are progressing on the path.

The conceptual mind is expert at convincing us that we "understand."

Then something happens that smacks us in the face and shows us a glimpse of some ugly truth.

Perhaps we are not quite as far along the path as we have come to believe and it can be painful and difficult to accept.

That is precisely our opportunity to make some real and meaningful progress.

I hope TI did just that and I send him my love, support, and best wishes.

 

Edited by steve
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