Will meditation alone achieve special effects?

[Horus]

Like the Buddha ever said that. Show me where.

I said he came to that conclusion, not that he said it, not that it is written so.

 

Your level of abrasiveness is uncalled for here, and you are making it sound harder and more technical than it is.

 

You create more work for everyone with this hateful way, let it go.

 

It's the same hatred that lead to Siddhartha's poisoning.

 

Breath and Stillness is all anyone needs.

 

That's not to say that many have not and will not complicate simplicity into insanity.

 

The Buddha reached his heights because of the soul that he is, not some technique we can squabble over.

 

Compassion!

 

If he was here now he would put a naughty hat on you and sit you in the naughty corner!!

 

[aboo]

I think any answer given to the OP could only be a "stab in the dark" as the OP is a beginner and has not defined exactly what it is he is after. It seemed to me he was looking for a simple answer that would not overwhelm him, and I think the simple answer is yes, if he meditates long and deeply enough "something" will happen.

Edited October 1, 2014 by aboo

[Bud Jetsun]

I have read about the benefits and extrasensory abilities that qijong, yogi, and buddhist practices can give you.

 

Only you can give your self those abilities, all practices offer only the experience of practicing.

 

Heightened awareness and senses occur at the moment one realizes they were always there to the extent one chose to listen/observe, which is mutually exclusive the act of hearing/seeing.

 

Siddhis are as unbounded and compassionate or cruel as you let them be.

 

Manifest perfect mindfulness, then choose to realize you always had exclusive dominion over all aspects of your reality, as all that which you know of your reality that is expressive in thought.

[Tibetan_Ice]

I said he came to that conclusion, not that he said it, not that it is written so.

 

Your level of abrasiveness is uncalled for here, and you are making it sound harder and more technical than it is.

 

You create more work for everyone with this hateful way, let it go.

 

It's the same hatred that lead to Siddhartha's poisoning.

 

Breath and Stillness is all anyone needs.

 

That's not to say that many have not and will not complicate simplicity into insanity.

 

The Buddha reached his heights because of the soul that he is, not some technique we can squabble over.

 

Compassion!

 

If he was here now he would put a naughty hat on you and sit you in the naughty corner!!

 

 

So now you speak for Buddha and claim to know his conclusions?

 

While it may seem to be hateful to you to dispute your oversimplified ignorant statements, to others with a more discerning intellect the conclusions are far different.

 

Don't we all have the seed of the Buddha in us? Now you have implied that Buddha didn't need any technique. Right... And that's exactly what Buddha taught for over 40 years... No technique...

 

I can tell you have it all figured out by the compassion in your response.

[Horus]

I think any answer given to the OP could only be a "stab in the dark" as the OP is a beginner and has not defined exactly what it is he is after. It seemed to me he was looking for a simple answer that would not overwhelm him, and I think the simple answer is yes, if he meditates long and deeply enough "something" will happen.

Well, that's a good point.

 

What abilities are on your wish list, dc9?

[Horus]

So now you speak for Buddha and claim to know his conclusions?

 

While it may seem to be hateful to you to dispute your oversimplified ignorant statements, to others with a more discerning intellect the conclusions are far different.

 

Don't we all have the seed of the Buddha in us? Now you have implied that Buddha didn't need any technique. Right... And that's exactly what Buddha taught for over 40 years... No technique...

 

I can tell you have it all figured out by the compassion in your response.

ok, you're starting to catch on.

 

Though, not reading very well...I did not say he had no technique - I said "The Buddha reached his heights because of the soul that he is, not some technique we can squabble over."

 

The Buddha was/is a very special soul - a soul that from the very dawn of creation ALWAYS chose the light, the "correct" perception in every lifetime. The sum total of these choices bestowed upon him great power and responsibility. It was not his techniques in the lifetime of Siddhartha.

 

Granted he spent many years to come to that conclusion, and it was a very simple technique that was ultimately required to bring him to that. But it was the other lifetimes that created the magnitude of his awareness.

 

If the Buddha were incarnate here upon the earth today, which "he" is - you would not see this soul bending over backwards with technique to attain greatness.

 

"I can tell you have it all figured out by the compassion in your response."

 

One day you might come to the conclusion that there is a difference between compassion, righteousness, and arrogance.

 

When that day comes you might have more compassion for "oversimplified ignorant statements".

 

What is "ignorance" - something a teacher, lineages, or books can destroy? Something "intellect" can quash?

 

Let's continue this chat when you have enough compassion to go and talk directly with said grand soul, then the ignorance will subside.

 

Until then, chill out Tibetan Ice...

[Gerard]

What do you guys think about this? Right now I have a lot of trouble meditating for longer than 15 minutes, but if I can ever get to the point of being able to do it for 2+ hours a day, will I begin to feel new sensations and awareness?

 

 

Proof that you have already encountered a mind block. There will be many others.

 

Stop and focus on moving work, a lot of it actually. Welcome to the modern world, you are not the Buddha born 2,500 years ago in a planet populated by around 25 million humans with no technology, stress, pollution of all kinds, pornography, consumerism, etc.

 

Moving work choices:

 

1. Walking meditation.

2. Internal Martial Arts. My personal recommendation, notably Bagua.

3. Hiking in the mountains. Try seated meditation when you get to the top or at the bottom of the mountain, in the forest and near a small creek.

[KenBrace]

 

This is ridiculous, in my opinion, and in my own personal experience. Ive meditated between 1-2 hrs a day for about a year and a half and have experienced some pretty profound changes. The idea that one needs do devote 6 hours a day to meditation to see results is bizarre. Also Ive had many sessions that didnt "feel" like I was even meditating and noticed the next day feeling much different. Actually I can remember a difference even after my first 10 minute meditation. I think its not helpful to beginners to put these kind of limitations on meditation. I know if Id have read a post like this when I was just starting Id have just said screw that, because thats just overwhelming. anyways thats my 2 cents. Im sure longer is "better" however Ive had some pretty profound meditations where I only went for 40 min. It all depends.

Your idea of "profound" is a lot different than mine.

[Brian]

Please share your idea of "profound," KenBrace?

[thelerner]

Stop and focus on moving work, a lot of it actually. Welcome to the modern world, you are not the Buddha born 2,500 years ago in a planet populated by around 25 million humans with no technology, stress, pollution of all kinds, pornography, consumerism, etc.

 

Moving work choices:

 

1. Walking meditation.

2. Internal Martial Arts. My personal recommendation, notably Bagua.

3. Hiking in the mountains. Try seated meditation when you get to the top or at the bottom of the mountain, in the forest and near a small creek.

You make some good points about moving/nature/awareness but I gotta disagree with adding 'stress' to your list of no's, 2,500 years ago. Wasn't stress and suffering the reason Buddha became the Buddha? I'd also want to double check on pollution too. A big community with no plumbing or refrigeration can get quite polluted. Even porn might be more a mindset problem then exclusively a tech one.

 

Still your solutions are right on.

[Spotless]

I have read about the benefits and extrasensory abilities that qijong, yogi, and buddhist practices can give you. But all of these different methodologies all have different claims on the way our energy/chi/whatever in our body works, that it makes me think that none of them matter.. that as long as you meditate deeply and longly enough, you will be able to achieve those effects regardless..

 

What do you guys think about this? Right now I have a lot of trouble meditating for longer than 15 minutes, but if I can ever get to the point of being able to do it for 2+ hours a day, will I begin to feel new sensations and awareness?

 

At the higher levels their are actually very few differences in the views of the different methodologies - and then the differences are basically inherited proclivities that die hard even among the enlightened.

 

Meditation brings to bear forces upon energy patterns that are stuck and or constrictive. With meditation we also pet the horse and slap the driver.

The driver is the idiot we call by our name. The horse is that great spirit vehicle we beat with a whip.

 

At some point the driver begins to dissolve into the buzz and we embody the emerging light of the true self.

 

Freeing up from positions and the straightjacket of our thick skin of patterns and the bantering buzz of the madman, abilities are allowed to participate in our awakening space.

 

Everything of a higher order that can be achieved by meditation can be achieved by other means. Meditation is very effective for work on the madman, movement is very effective in bonding with the horse.

 

 

 

[3bob]

I have read about the benefits and extrasensory abilities that qijong, yogi, and buddhist practices can give you. But all of these different methodologies all have different claims on the way our energy/chi/whatever in our body works, that it makes me think that none of them matter.. that as long as you meditate deeply and longly enough, you will be able to achieve those effects regardless..

 

What do you guys think about this? Right now I have a lot of trouble meditating for longer than 15 minutes, but if I can ever get to the point of being able to do it for 2+ hours a day, will I begin to feel new sensations and awareness?

 

Have you read or do you know that demons also have these same powers except in twisted form? Thus the motive for such powers is of major question and concern - since if we are practicing a true spiritual path all powers will then properly fall under the need to know or use and thus be justified to aid and or help benefit further spiritual practice, and if such is not the motive then what is? "Meditation" is really or ultimately a prepping for freedom+awareness+heart-wisdom and not powers or "effects" per-se.

Edited October 2, 2014 by 3bob

[joeblast]

Please share your idea of "profound," KenBrace?

I saw a sign once at a bar that said

 

FREE BEER!!!!

(all day, tomorrow)

[Tibetan_Ice]

ok, you're starting to catch on.

 

Though, not reading very well...I did not say he had no technique - I said "The Buddha reached his heights because of the soul that he is, not some technique we can squabble over."

 

The Buddha was/is a very special soul - a soul that from the very dawn of creation ALWAYS chose the light, the "correct" perception in every lifetime. The sum total of these choices bestowed upon him great power and responsibility. It was not his techniques in the lifetime of Siddhartha.

 

Granted he spent many years to come to that conclusion, and it was a very simple technique that was ultimately required to bring him to that. But it was the other lifetimes that created the magnitude of his awareness.

 

If the Buddha were incarnate here upon the earth today, which "he" is - you would not see this soul bending over backwards with technique to attain greatness.

 

"I can tell you have it all figured out by the compassion in your response."

 

One day you might come to the conclusion that there is a difference between compassion, righteousness, and arrogance.

 

When that day comes you might have more compassion for "oversimplified ignorant statements".

 

What is "ignorance" - something a teacher, lineages, or books can destroy? Something "intellect" can quash?

 

Let's continue this chat when you have enough compassion to go and talk directly with said grand soul, then the ignorance will subside.

 

Until then, chill out Tibetan Ice...

You say it is all breathing and stillness in one thread and then you post this in another thread...

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/16504-internal-vision-and-remote-viewing/?p=583872

 

Develop the foundation - Jing, Qi, and Shen.

Develop the foundation - Virtue (release all negative emotions & thoughts & deeds)

Practice White Skeleton Meditation.

Practice attenuation of the optic nerve with eyes down the nose focus.

When you feel the whole system is "full" of jing/qi/shen - reverse the focus and take the eyes down the central channel and back up.

When you feel the whole system is "full" of jing/qi/shen - try to send the Shen down the front channel.

When you feel the whole system is "full" of jing/qi/shen - try to meld your intention (Yi) with Shen (energy in upper dantien) and then with all of your might and intuitive tricks command the Shen to extend the astral tube from pineal to yintang to lower dantien.

Also caution that to "fix unwavering concentration on a single part of the body" can very easily create imbalances.

 

With these approaches I have seen inside: meridians, dantiens, fires, bones, muscular tissues, dark matter, qi, jing, shen - and outside: through walls, through the ceiling/roof, up the street, the other side of the planet, other planets, stars, spirits, ET's.

 

But, I'd call myself a natural not an expert

 

Kind of contradictory, don't you think? Let me spell it out for you. On one hand you give a tremendously watered down renditition of "meditation" and then on the other hand you seem to know specialized techniques and can illuminate a few of the lamps. Maybe there is hope for you yet... LOL

 

And now you claim that the Buddha is incarnate here today on earth. What is your proof? You do know that you create your own visions and you shouldn't mistake them for non-relational reality, don't you?

Edited October 2, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[PLB]

It is not a train, where you get on at one station and arrive at another after some time.

It is a lover who wonders why you are so cold and insensitive but has faith that you will improve.

[Horus]

You say it is all breathing and stillness in one thread and then you post this in another thread...

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/16504-internal-vision-and-remote-viewing/?p=583872

 

Kind of contradictory, don't you think? Let me spell it out for you. On one hand you give a tremendously watered down renditition of "meditation" and then on the other hand you seem to know specialized techniques and can illuminate a few of the lamps. Maybe there is hope for you yet... LOL

 

And now you claim that the Buddha is incarnate here today on earth. What is your proof? You do know that you create your own visions and you shouldn't mistake them for non-relational reality, don't you?

Thanks Tibetan Ice.

 

Sorry for being an ass the other day, I should be more compassionate I know. I just like to let the monkey off the leash now and then - and then scrape in the darkness to go higher.

 

So, I take responsibility for being so flippant, immature, and arrogant. But, better out than in I say (provided we can whip that shit into gold afterwards )

 

Kind of contradictory, don't you think? Let me spell it out for you. On one hand you give a tremendously watered down renditition of "meditation" and then on the other hand you seem to know specialized techniques and can illuminate a few of the lamps. Maybe there is hope for you yet... LOL

 

Yes, but life is full of contradictions - life is one, no?

 

 

On one hand you give a tremendously watered down renditition of "meditation" and then on the other hand you seem to know specialized techniques and can illuminate a few of the lamps. Maybe there is hope for you yet... LOL

 

Yes. Well, I've personally had to water everything down when it comes to practices - you picked the right element there

 

So, the OP essentially asked "will meditation alone achieve the special effects?", and to that I still proffer a resounding yes.

 

In the end all of my work keeps coming back to simplicity.

 

I'm hellishly stubborn when it comes to accepting that though.

 

So, to a "beginner" - what else can one do but say yes - the meditation alone is what brings the special effects?

 

That's what brought them for me - the technical stuff largely arose from the meditation, a means to hone, ground and "control" said gifts.

 

So, for me its all about the simplicity of breath, stillness, and the resultant awareness that rises up from the construct.

 

The more I play into the honing, the more it costs me. But, in that price comes stability - temperance.

 

But the last hing I'd tell a beginner is "nope, sorry - its all the complicated mental gymnastics that I do that wins the prizes."

 

Coz, it's not.

 

It's the letting go of self that gives all.

 

So, I made a compromise with myself. To "only work with Siddhis that I have come into direct contact with, and feel it progressional to devote some time to honing". And I do this sparingly. Most of my expereince with Siddhis happens spontaneously, and then I choose to connect the dots to stabilise them to the waking state functionality.

 

But, its retrogressive.

 

for example:

 

I had a "other lifetime" experience with an "immortal assassin" - who had the gift of invisibility like it was easy as walking.

 

It was impressed upon me because my guides had already asked me to be invisible when I do certain earth grid work. So, this Assassin started impressing upon me the process to get to that level of ability with said Siddhi.

 

So, it all comes down to stillness, breath, and the resultant awareness. And then when I get myself "full of qi" and want to hone said Siddhi - I can do it (I can get the cloud of invisibility to engulf both hands so they are not visible, just the akashic cloud can be seen. I'm yet to manipulate the cloud to absorb/reflect the visible environment.) Progress in this is slow - as it chews the juice massively. I get the cold chills and my whole energy body shrivels...and the reason is that I have not done enough stillness, and breathing to really "fill up" (which is an illusion, filling.).

 

So, hone with mental/yang processes, but procure with yin stillness.

 

And to be honest, imho - I doubt that the honing is even required - it just slows you down.

 

But, as I said I let the monkey of the leash until he tires and then I scrape up the darkness, eat it for breakfast, and then get down to the real cultivation with a quiet full bellied monkey.

 

And now you claim that the Buddha is incarnate here today on earth. What is your proof?

 

Yes, proof. Well, I'm working on that one - it's not a biggy for me. But, I've been able to consruct multiple perception screens inside - and can feel the bridge to broadcasting that to others. Maybe a few years off that though... But then, seeing is only a type of proof right?

 

 

You do know that you create your own visions and you shouldn't mistake them for non-relational reality, don't you?

 

Yep, straight up. Pissed me off to no end for a long time that one. Much the same as the waking state - we co-create all of it...right pain in the ass, huh?

 

But then once you learn to attenuate the bs visions (with a little help from yo friends ) from the rest...then the ballpark drops its boundaries and the home runs are a bit tougher to hit out of the park.

 

But then what is really "non-relational reality"?

 

What exists outside the relationship?

 

Only ego separates, no?

 

Best wished Tibetan Ice!

[dc9]

I can buy that through meditative techniques, you can hone your mind to experience things as if you were on drugs such as LSD and shrooms. you can condition your mind to be in a constant state of euphoria and bliss, and you can gain much more control over your body and mind.

 

But you guys are talking about invisibility or immortality or whatever? If such a thing were possible, then it's absurd that we don't have evidence of it. Any explanation for why we don't have concrete proof of supernatural abilities is just total rubbish to me if they actually exist. Every single investigation in any person who claimed to have anything supernatural has revealed them to be frauds.

 

I would be absolutely thrilled if such a thing exists, don't get me wrong. But it just feels delusional and absurd for me ...

 

But I will be a scientist of my own body. I'll do my best to extend my meditation sessions as long as possible and see where it leads me. You guys say this is all it takes, right? I don't need anything more than that to attain supernatural.

[KenBrace]

Please share your idea of "profound," KenBrace?

Something that takes you to a whole new level and far beyond anything you would encounter in the everyday life of an ape.

 

This kindu reminds me of how Christians use the word "profound" to describe the Holy Spirit and what not. If they took a step back then they would realize that it's just a game in their heads with no real significance. They want something spiritual and profound in their lives so instead of finding something worthwhile they indulge in "spiritual drugs". Most meditative practices are about as useful as prayer imo.

Edited October 3, 2014 by KenBrace

[Horus]

I can buy that through meditative techniques, you can hone your mind to experience things as if you were on drugs such as LSD and shrooms.

Actually, this is not (usually the aim imo/ime). Rather you can hone your mind to experience things as they "actually are" once you develop enough awareness, and then enough stability to pierce through that level of "experience" of self.

 

But you guys are talking about invisibility or immortality or whatever? If such a thing were possible, then it's absurd that we don't have evidence of it. Any explanation for why we don't have concrete proof of supernatural abilities is just total rubbish to me if they actually exist. Every single investigation in any person who claimed to have anything supernatural has revealed them to be frauds.

 

I would be absolutely thrilled if such a thing exists, don't get me wrong. But it just feels delusional and absurd for me ...

Well, I'm the one talking about invisibility and immortality right now, don't lump that on anyone else...

 

In time you will realise, if you don't already , that "when they own the information oooh, they can bend it all they want".

 

Let me paint a piccy for ya:

 

Humanity are co-creators, we all have free will - not so hard to grasp?

 

The collective free will of humanity, in the majority, seeks to control the vastness of its "unlimited" free will - to contain and corral it, keep it manageable through the senses.

 

The responsibility of being fully at one with said free will is pretty intense to most, it takes "constant "work"" to be in that state of awareness.

 

So, the collective has manifested a group control system to keep the illusion of separateness alive and well - thus keeping the average joe blow from walking out the top of his head and realising who he/she really is.

 

ok, no judgement there, free will, right?

 

There's a great scene in the film "Inception" where Leo D-Cup is training his charge in architecturally redesigning the illusory landscape of the dream state.

 

What he does not tell her is that if she changes the dreamscape too drastically - the collective starts "attacking you". They attack the "different".

 

I'm not trying to tell you that people will attack you, not at all.

 

I'm saying that there is an ancient control system that has been expanding and contracting since mankind's original fall from grace - and it keeps this stuff under wraps with ridicule, hiding, and whatever it takes to maintain the sleep of the senses.

 

Evidence and proof are fodder, brecky to feed this beast ongoing.

 

But I will be a scientist of my own body. I'll do my best to extend my meditation sessions as long as possible and see where it leads me. You guys say this is all it takes, right? I don't need anything more than that to attain supernatural.

It's your free will, all power to ya.

 

You need nothing more, you are already "supernatural". This is about training in memory energy that drags your ass beyond your current locked in degree of awareness.

 

Be that scientist, though I would urge you to question whether its a matter of quantity (time) or quality.

 

Consistency will deliver you to that answer.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Horus

[dc9]

But all it takes is one person to reveal his powers in a manner that is undeniable, and society's worldview will come crashing down. Especially in this current age of mass media and information.

 

But are you trying to tell me that there are a bunch of people right now who essentially have superpowers that we see in movies and books and comics, but there is some type of conspiracy going on that is suppressing our knowledge of them?

 

I mean, honestly that would be kind of awesome if it were true. And I certainly can't prove that it's not true, but I also can't concretely prove that islam or christianity isn't true but I still don't believe in those religions.

 

 

So, where can I find evidence that what you are saying is true, and not one of the many false claims that people make?

 

And if deep meditation is all it takes to unlock supposedly innate superpowers such as invisibility, why isn't this being experienced by many people who spend large amounts of time meditating?

 

I hope I don't come across as rude, but you are just making a claim that I perceive to be very unlikely to be true.

[Horus]

But all it takes is one person to reveal his powers in a manner that is undeniable, and society's worldview will come crashing down.

 

Are ya sure about that?

 

[Horus]

So, where can I find evidence that what you are saying is true, and not one of the many false claims that people make?

 

[silent thunder]

Of all the cultivation, meditation, intention and visualization work I've done...

 

The most rewarding and effective results stem from:

 

Kind heart.

Quiet heart.

Sincere heart.

 

Everything else is secondary.

[katsura]

This kindu reminds me of how Christians use the word "profound" to describe the Holy Spirit and what not. If they took a step back then they would realize that it's just a game in their heads with no real significance. They want something spiritual and profound in their lives so instead of finding something worthwhile they indulge in "spiritual drugs". Most meditative practices are about as useful as prayer imo.

What's described by practitioners of qigong and yoga is pretty universal (we all have the same body), even if some spiritual and religious traditions aren't as adept at codifying and reproducing the phenomena.

 

Prayer is underrated. It's hard for me to imagine a stable yogic practice not inclining one to prayer at some point, particularly in those pandora's box moments.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I can buy that through meditative techniques, you can hone your mind to experience things as if you were on drugs such as LSD and shrooms. you can condition your mind to be in a constant state of euphoria and bliss, and you can gain much more control over your body and mind.

 

But you guys are talking about invisibility or immortality or whatever? If such a thing were possible, then it's absurd that we don't have evidence of it. Any explanation for why we don't have concrete proof of supernatural abilities is just total rubbish to me if they actually exist. Every single investigation in any person who claimed to have anything supernatural has revealed them to be frauds.

 

I would be absolutely thrilled if such a thing exists, don't get me wrong. But it just feels delusional and absurd for me ...

 

But I will be a scientist of my own body. I'll do my best to extend my meditation sessions as long as possible and see where it leads me. You guys say this is all it takes, right? I don't need anything more than that to attain supernatural.

 

In person teacher would really help, just random meditation doesn't do much aside from relax you and such.