BaguaKicksAss Posted March 30, 2014 Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on how "real IQ" should be measured? Easy, make someone do something they have no clue about how to do. For example if they have never worked with their hands, have them build a house. If they work with their hands, have them learn to play an instrument. Have the run a business. Have them learn to sing, draw, whatever. Hmmm, I think I challenge myself with my forms of iq tests all the time; it's fun . 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Poor MPG's not exactly inundated with members over there on his new forum is he? Apropos IQ and other psychometric ( measuring mind) 'tests' if there is a criticism it has to be that the compilers of each test set the parameters against their pre-definitions of what is to be measured, how and why. For example someone doing one particular test comes out as an " INTJ". Super. But, according to whom? Why, the people who set the test and created each 'definition' of course. Edited March 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 30, 2014 Well.. I learned this morning that MPG started a forum so I think I'll see how his works out before starting one of my own. Well, that was one cultivation you did right by being aware of your environment consciously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted March 30, 2014 Well.. I learned this morning that MPG started a forum so I think I'll see how his works out before starting one of my own. I don't know yet, but his might be MP based only, whereas your/yours talked of including other forms/systems of Neigong... so I still vote go for it . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted March 30, 2014 Poor MPG's not exactly inundated with members over there on his new forum is he? Apropos IQ and other psychometric ( measuring mind) 'tests' if there is a criticism it has to be that the compilers of each test set the parameters against their pre-definitions of what is to be measured, how and why. For example someone doing one particular test comes out as an " INTJ". Super. But, according to whom? Why, the people who set the test and created each 'definition' of course. When I was over in Haiti 99% of the folks I met (small village) were illiterate. Though they were laughing at me because I wasn't getting the songs and dances as fast as was standard for people over there . They were also far from unintelligent. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Well, the more intelligent you are the more you understand how little you understand. So narcissistic intellectuals who think that their mind can capture everything and engage regularly in mental masturbation usually are more intelligent than average (I would estimate around 115-120) but not quite genius-level IQ (140+). Yes, it is easy for intellectuals to be egotistical about their learnings. They have no idea that the intellectual brain is such a huge joke. I know, because I was one once, as a kid learning the theory of relativity at 12 and going on to aircraft design from there. You use the word understand, I don't know how close that is to knowing, but I think the only real tool of knowing intellectual things is a highly energized crown point, helped no doubt by a highly energized third eye in some way ... hell if I know how it works, or care ... along with a highly energized whole bodyl There is one thing good about mental jerking off, it can be very enjoyable and lead to mental bliss, but this only happens after a person masters the art of non thinking on a daily basis, which comes after enlightenment Edited March 30, 2014 by Starjumper 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) So, maybe I can contribute something of value instead of just criticizing and complaining... My personal observations of neigong and qigong. Taiji form is qigong, taiji form is neigong. Qigong is qigong, qigong is neigong. Niegong is qigong, neigong is neigong... In my neigong instruction, the mind of intent is most consistent. Breath usually natural, occasionally coordinated as is suitable. Body motion optional. Can work on many things. Strength that arises is beyond muscle. I'd probably lump the iron stuff here as well. In qigong instruction, always body movement involved, probably more verbal convention in our system than for any other reason. Breathing usually more emphasized in beginning until neigong comes in! Here are more of the muscle contraction systems. My favorite is Shiba Luohan Qigong practiced with dynamic tension. VERY intense. Use caution... So I tend to link neigong to mind of intent and qigong more to breath and body movement. Either may be injected into the other as makes sense to the application and teaching at hand. YMMV - it's just one way to think about it. I know other systems have different nomenclature, emPHAsis, practice and theory. Please don't criticize Share! Peace Edit - PS I meant my own criticism and complaining, you all get to deal with yours Edited March 30, 2014 by steve 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted March 30, 2014 So, maybe I can contribute something of value instead of just criticizing and complaining... My personal observations of neigong and qigong. Taiji form is qigong, taiji form is neigong. Qigong is qigong, qigong is neigong. Niegong is qigong, neigong is neigong... In my neigong instruction, the mind of intent is most consistent. Breath usually natural, occasionally coordinated as is suitable. Body motion optional. Can work on many things. Strength that arises is beyond muscle. I'd probably lump the iron stuff here as well. In qigong instruction, always body movement involved, probably more verbal convention in our system than for any other reason. Breathing usually more emphasized in beginning until neigong comes in! Here are more of the muscle contraction systems. My favorite is Shiba Luohan Qigong practiced with dynamic tension. VERY intense. Use caution... So I tend to link neigong to mind of intent and qigong more to breath and body movement. Either may be injected into the other as makes sense to the application and teaching at hand. YMMV - it's just one way to think about it. I know other systems have different nomenclature, emPHAsis, practice and theory. Please don't criticize Share! Peace Edit - PS I meant my own criticism and complaining, you all get to deal with yours Where all does Zhan Zhuang fit into all this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Where all does Zhan Zhuang fit into all this? Such beautiful parallels and synergies! In my experience the Zhangzhuang is much more a focused system of spiritual cultivation linked to a (Bön) Buddhist view. It has components that qualify as neigong and qigong as adjuncts. Not too disimilar to Daoist systems but the view is different and that counts for a lot! The meditation and energetic anatomy and nomenclature are different as well, but think about it, the mind, energy, and anatomy is what it is, we just project our concepts on it! Edit - PS my previous post was referring to my experience in a Daoist system, not Zhangzhung Edited March 31, 2014 by steve 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted March 31, 2014 Such beautiful parallels and synergies! In my experience the Zhangzhuang is much more a focused system of spiritual cultivation linked to a (Bön) Buddhist view. It has components that qualify as neigong and qigong as adjuncts. Not too disimilar to Daoist systems but the view is different and that counts for a lot! The meditation and energetic anatomy and nomenclature are different as well, but think about it, the mind, energy, and anatomy is what it is, we just project our concepts on it! Edit - PS my previous post was referring to my experience in a Daoist system, not Zhangzhung I know, I just thought you might have some further insights along those lines too . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KenBrace Posted March 31, 2014 I don't know yet, but his might be MP based only, whereas your/yours talked of including other forms/systems of Neigong... so I still vote go for it . Due to the cost of a server I don't really think it's worth it. I wish I had the money but unfortunately I'm not a rich man. :-/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MERCELESS ONE Posted March 31, 2014 I started off with a little light trolling http://www.mopaidebate.com/discussion/5/trolling-trolling-trolling-trolling-#Item_1 *Disclaimer, I do not in any way represent the views posted or expressed on the particular forum above, nor am I anything more than just a regular member of said forum that some friend of mine runs.... lol i love the disclaimer!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted March 31, 2014 Due to the cost of a server I don't really think it's worth it. I wish I had the money but unfortunately I'm not a rich man. :-/ Aside from the several free hosting companies around the net... most websites cost $20 per year for hosting, or $30 per year, depending on quality of hosting company. Then it is $10 per year for the domain name. I of course mean just regular simple free forums. I ran some on services like the above for many years... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted March 31, 2014 Due to the cost of a server I don't really think it's worth it. I wish I had the money but unfortunately I'm not a rich man. :-/ Amazon web services is free for a year, I think, or else really cheap and only based on usage. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted March 31, 2014 Hasn't google come up with any free awesome hosting yet? Hell they even stop by to do my dishes for free for me once per week (as they scan my internet usage). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MERCELESS ONE Posted March 31, 2014 When I was over in Haiti 99% of the folks I met (small village) were illiterate. Though they were laughing at me because I wasn't getting the songs and dances as fast as was standard for people over there . They were also far from unintelligent. one thing i noticed when i was there is that the average haitian spoke 3 languages or at least the ones i met did! on second thought it was 4, most spoke haitian creole, french, spanish, and english it was cool to learn a little haitian, and practice my french 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 31, 2014 Well.. I learned this morning that MPG started a forum so I think I'll see how his works out before starting one of my own. Sorry to say, this is going to be another one of those inconclusive dead end on the subject matter. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted March 31, 2014 one thing i noticed when i was there is that the average haitian spoke 3 languages or at least the ones i met did! on second thought it was 4, most spoke haitian creole, french, spanish, and english it was cool to learn a little haitian, and practice my french Wow, that is impressive! I usually ran into 1-2 spoken languages (and none written). Though Egypt people know 4-7! Sooooo what were *you* doing over in Haiti? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MERCELESS ONE Posted March 31, 2014 Wow, that is impressive! I usually ran into 1-2 spoken languages (and none written). Though Egypt people know 4-7! Sooooo what were *you* doing over in Haiti? im in the u.s. coast guard, we were doing operations out there and got to meet quite alot of the locals. ill say it was an interesting experience. most americans have no idea how pampered and lucky they are!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, before I started with my master my tai chi master told me: "watch him like a hawk" (means observe more carefully than 99.9% of people are able to). That was the best advice I ever got. You mean just observation and nothing was told to you....??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted March 31, 2014 You mean just observation and nothing was told to you....??? I know Starjumper's gone so I'll answer for him - When you study with martial arts masters, they generally don't say much. You watch, you duplicate, you get corrected if you've demonstrated that you have spent enough time practicing… And you learn just as much watching them when they are not teaching (they're always teaching). Very few words are necessary with a good teacher. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 31, 2014 I know Starjumper's gone so I'll answer for him - When you study with martial arts masters, they generally don't say much. You watch, you duplicate, you get corrected if you've demonstrated that you have spent enough time practicing… And you learn just as much watching them when they are not teaching (they're always teaching). Very few words are necessary with a good teacher. Thank you for answering for Starjumper, I can understand when Kung Fu was taught but Neigong without explanation is not possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted March 31, 2014 Thank you for answering for Starjumper, I can understand when Kung Fu was taught but Neigong without explanation is not possible. Yes, some instruction is absolutely necessary in specific techniques but discussion can be very minimal and observation is priceless. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, some instruction is absolutely necessary in specific techniques but discussion can be very minimal and observation is priceless. Are we talking about something in general or a specific technique like Nei Gong? I don't think our minds have come to a mutual synchronization yet. I think we should discuss something at a higher level without making generalization statements. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted March 31, 2014 I'll also bet that oftentimes the teacher doesn't always use the word neigong/keikung when showing some of it . 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
