Living at peace with society...

[deci belle]

It is a constant battle. That's what it is. Why sugar-coat it?

[Vmarco]

I would not use that phrase. It sounds a little high minded for me. So it depends what you mean I suppose.

 

 

High Minded? So, you're tolerant of jealousy, greed, anger, bullying, stupidity and so on,...but just feel you should accept jealousy, greed, anger, bullying, stupidity and so on.

 

You also say that you wish everyone happiness and enlightenment,...but what exactly does that imply? A bodhisattva wishes for the liberation of all sentient being,...fully undersanding that such liberation arises from the dissolution of what sentient beings cherish the most,...their sentience.

 

Can one realize real happiness and enlightenment without going beyond their attachment to sentience for their identity?

 

What would the world look like if jealousy, greed, anger, bullying, stupidity and so on, no longer existed? In other words, what manifests jealousy, greed, anger, bullying, stupidity and so on?

 

Here's a interesting clip on jealousy:

[Owledge]

We invite acquaintances into our life for a limited time. Friends are always with you.

Acquaintances can seem like true friends. ... Only time will tell.

[Marblehead]

Acquaintances can seem like true friends. ... Only time will tell.

Yes, their friendship will be tested; not necessarily by us intentionally but simple 'cause and effect' events of life will show the truthfulness of their friendship. (Of course, it is our responsibility to pay attention and see reality as it really is.)

[skydog]

...

Edited January 26, 2013 by sinansencer

[thelerner]

Can you visualize a World of Peace with Beware of Dog signs, and the terrorism of millions getting bit every year?

http://thetaobums.com/topic/26667-pit-bulls-do-they-get-a-bad-rap/

 

What would a Peaceful World look like? And who is preventing it from being a reality?

Question is can we be at peace with this world? Right Now?

I can. Don't like everything, but around me its pretty good. And through various charities I'm working to make it better. I recognize the dangers, avoid what I can, accept what I cannot, and right now; I'm at peace; dogs, mosquitoes, flu, bites and all.

 

 

maybe peace is just a cup of tea away, preferably with a neighbor or friend.

making a cup of tea

i save the world

[Marblehead]

 

making a cup of tea

i save the world

So nice!

[Apech]

High Minded? So, you're tolerant of jealousy, greed, anger, bullying, stupidity and so on,...but just feel you should accept jealousy, greed, anger, bullying, stupidity and so on.

I'm not sure if this is a typo but I was saying I should not accept these things not that I should accept them. It was a the righteous word that I was most uncomfortable in your 'righteous intolerance' phrase. It's just not a phrase I would use.

 

 

You also say that you wish everyone happiness and enlightenment,...but what exactly does that imply? A bodhisattva wishes for the liberation of all sentient being,...fully undersanding that such liberation arises from the dissolution of what sentient beings cherish the most,...their sentience.

 

It means I have good wishes towards everyone ... even those who might harm me ... because I would like to see them gain enlightenment and so stop doing harm. Happiness also to them. This does not mean I have to like them, trust them, have anything to do with them ... By sentience do you mean sense perception? or do you mean essential sentience i.e. the capacity to be aware? I don't see how you dissolve the latter.

 

Can one realize real happiness and enlightenment without going beyond their attachment to sentience for their identity?

 

Its attachment to self .... craving and ignorance which prevent happiness I think.

 

What would the world look like if jealousy, greed, anger, bullying, stupidity and so on, no longer existed? In other words, what manifests jealousy, greed, anger, bullying, stupidity and so on?

 

The world would be nirvana on the extinguishing of these obscurations. Although you could argue if 'world' means 'whirled' i.e. cyclical and therefore samsara.

 

Here's a interesting clip on jealousy:

 

 

I haven't watched this vid because my internet is too slow.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Apech

[skydog]

Acquaintances can seem like true friends. ... Only time will tell.

 

Ok- The following is conceptual rubbish to some degree, anyways I think it is a nice way to view things. And non duality includes duality I guess.

 

I just see or sometimes/try to see everyone as my best friend that either I havent fully connected with yet because of conversational skills/fluff talk/social skills/language barriers or the other persons mind mud/ignorance, the way I see it from examining my own mind everyone just wants the best, even if they hate themselves somehow they want the best and are doing it from fear/wanting safety because they believe it is best to do so, everyones beliefs tell them most of the time what they are doing is the best thing to do, someone cant possibly do what they think is bad or more importantly feel is bad because then they wouldnt do it, even if they have been told they are a bad person and look for validation of that this is in their own current sel finterest for pity or whatever, anyways to some degree everyone is perfect and even people who I may not want to hang around with because their mind mud/ignorance causes them to act in ways I prefer not to be around I still see them as deep down my best friend and forgive them because if they knew/saw things clearly they would of course do whats best, but it seems whats best for them anyways.

 

Yeh, this is a little idealistic but still.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I think I may have found my peace. My own little piece of peace.

My creative outlet and need to design worlds...



cant have it without society, alas. yet it is almost like a romantic relationship between us...

[AsheSkyler]

The only way I can have a peaceful experience with society is let them think I'm what they want me to be, and try to avoid any conversation or situation that will let them learn otherwise. It's like a game of hide-and-seek to where if you're found, you're subject to hours or even years of lectures of how you're inferior to the general population, should never speak because you are stupid and have bad ideas, will never amount to anything, and will never be wanted by any employer or mate and will die poor, alone, and hated because of it.

 

Those people reaaaally don't appreciate it when you ask why they are projecting their insecurities onto you, pretending you possess those qualities, and then punish you for having those qualities. Big no-no. Just be their strange sounding-board and hope they figure themselves out before they spread rumours that you are the embodiment of their worst fears or they even walk off and do the same thing to another person.

[Unseen_Abilities]

-

Edited January 31, 2014 by Unseen_Abilities

[Vmarco]

The only way I can have a peaceful experience with society is let them think I'm what they want me to be, and try to avoid any conversation or situation that will let them learn otherwise. It's like a game of hide-and-seek to where if you're found, you're subject to hours or even years of lectures of how you're inferior to the general population, should never speak because you are stupid and have bad ideas, will never amount to anything, and will never be wanted by any employer or mate and will die poor, alone, and hated because of it.

 

Those people reaaaally don't appreciate it when you ask why they are projecting their insecurities onto you, pretending you possess those qualities, and then punish you for having those qualities. Big no-no. Just be their strange sounding-board and hope they figure themselves out before they spread rumours that you are the embodiment of their worst fears or they even walk off and do the same thing to another person.

 

Sounds like your (astrological) Practical Director, that is, "planet of oriental appearance." is Pluto,...which is often defined as someone painfully ahead of the established mentality and morality of the time. A Practical Director reveals what one would be good at. With Pluto as the planet of oriental appearence, there is an aptness of bringing new meaning, significance, and perfection to old forms. What forms or systems one is apt to bring updated meaning to, depends on the House that the Practical Director is posited in.

 

I resonate with your post in that I hardly spoke during the first 40 years of this life,...and for the most part, still find it necessary to remain quiet in most common circumstances, throughout the 48 States and 6 Countries I've been to. At one time, I felt my predicament was rather cruel,...until I realized that the universe is not here for me,...I'm here for the universe. It didn't relieve the mundane isolation from society at large, but did mitigate my understanding of things.

 

A Buddhist said, "Morality can only be imposed from without when we are asleep. It can only be pseudo, false, a façade, it cannot become your real being…morality is bound to be nothing but a deep suppression. You cannot do anything while asleep; you can only suppress. And through morality, you will become false. You will not be a person, but simply a "persona"—just a pseudo-entity. . . . Only a dishonest person can be moral."

 

But you can't tell moral people that. And especially in Judeao-based Countries, such discussion could get you worse than killed.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Vmarco

[zanshin]

Ok- The following is conceptual rubbish to some degree, anyways I think it is a nice way to view things. And non duality includes duality I guess.

 

I just see or sometimes/try to see everyone as my best friend that either I havent fully connected with yet because of conversational skills/fluff talk/social skills/language barriers or the other persons mind mud/ignorance, the way I see it from examining my own mind everyone just wants the best, even if they hate themselves somehow they want the best and are doing it from fear/wanting safety because they believe it is best to do so, everyones beliefs tell them most of the time what they are doing is the best thing to do, someone cant possibly do what they think is bad or more importantly feel is bad because then they wouldnt do it, even if they have been told they are a bad person and look for validation of that this is in their own current sel finterest for pity or whatever, anyways to some degree everyone is perfect and even people who I may not want to hang around with because their mind mud/ignorance causes them to act in ways I prefer not to be around I still see them as deep down my best friend and forgive them because if they knew/saw things clearly they would of course do whats best, but it seems whats best for them anyways.

 

Yeh, this is a little idealistic but still.

 

Once ended up in a long conversation with a casual acquaintance from high school and the outcome was we both thought the other one was sort of stuck up and snotty in school, but we were both just naturally quiet and went along with our groups. We're friends now and actually have lot in common. Sort of an epiphany how my old perception of her was wrong. So I do try to be positive in making connection and expectation even though I'm really not a social person.

[manitou]

I don't think acceptance is the thing. It might be for some but for me I don't see why I should accept jealousy, greed, anger, bullying, stupidity and so on. Why should I? I think its more about seeing everything as part of the 'work'. And generating good will to others even in the face of their behaviour while protecting your own space/freedom.

 

 

I think there's a differnce between acceptance and Acceptance. No, I wouldn't accept somebody bullying me or saying unkind things - but there is a graceful way out of that that doesn't have to upset our emotional well-being. Just be kind and walk away, understanding that there's no other way for that fellow to act. The man's in a hell of his own making.

 

But the Acceptance part is realizing 'that's the way that person is', and not expecting anything else from him. Part of maturing is taking people for what they are, bullies or not, and realizing that that's how they are. If he is in your presence, expect him to try to bully you. It's his nature. But how you are capable of responding, how much work you've done, is the thing that will dictate whether this will drive you crazy or something gentler, like looking at it with a degree of humor because you knew it was going to happen anyway. Blow it off.

 

What I've actually found, over all the physical moves I've made in my life, is that I'm always still there when I get to my destination. If I have buttons that are still predominant sticking out of my chest that people can push at any moment, this is going to happen whether I'm living in the middle of New York City or a small village in the Himalayas. The ultimate answer lies within us, and repeatedly moving from one locale to another to escape folks which are unpleasant to us only extends the lesson, as I see it. Until we do the inner work and file down the buttons, it will happen everywhere unless you can find an uninhabited island somewhere.

Edited January 27, 2013 by manitou

[Birch]

It's certainly an ideal to strive for Manitou. At this point in my path I have had to stand up to people that are bullying me or putting me down. It can be daunting sometimes and people who have been used to expecting compliance on my part or that I will meet their attempts at abusive behaviours or powergrabbing with graceful silent acceptance are often enraged when I do stand up to them.

 

I do not consider this to be an issue of 'buttons' although people who wish to attack or powergrab are often very good at understanding what they are, or what they might be. This is also my 'responsibility', to not make those so apparent, or not to care to defend them if they are.

 

I find it relates to 'stealing potential' quite well. But that part is harder to explain.

[Vmarco]

What I've actually found, over all the physical moves I've made in my life, is that I'm always still there when I get to my destination. If I have buttons that are still predominant sticking out of my chest that people can push at any moment, this is going to happen whether I'm living in the middle of New York City or a small village in the Himalayas. The ultimate answer lies within us, and repeatedly moving from one locale to another to escape folks which are unpleasant to us only extends the lesson, as I see it. Until we do the inner work and file down the buttons, it will happen everywhere unless you can find an uninhabited island somewhere.

 

If your surroundings are unpleasant in an emotionally charged way,...no amount of relocation will get away from that. My advice for those who do get emotionally charged, is to go to the most emotionally charging place possible, so you can face the core issues effecting such emotional charges.

 

On the other hand,...why live in belief-driven location, if you are uncompatable with those beliefs. For example, suppose one is LGBT, and comfortable with being LGBT,...why live in a State like Texas, where every other person likely feels you should be dead?

 

2012 Texas GOP Official Platform states: "We affirm that the practice of [LGBT's] tears at the fabric of society and contributes to the breakdown of the family unit. [LGBT] behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. [LGBT's] must not be presented as an acceptable "alternative" lifestyle, in public policy, nor should "family" be redefined to include [LGBT] "couples." We believe there should be no granting of special legal entitlements or creation of special status for homosexual behavior, regardless of state of origin. Additionally, we oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose [LGBT's] out of faith, conviction or belief in traditional values. "

Edited January 27, 2013 by Vmarco

[WillingToListen]

The only way I can have a peaceful experience with society is let them think I'm what they want me to be, and try to avoid any conversation or situation that will let them learn otherwise. It's like a game of hide-and-seek to where if you're found, you're subject to hours or even years of lectures of how you're inferior to the general population, should never speak because you are stupid and have bad ideas, will never amount to anything, and will never be wanted by any employer or mate and will die poor, alone, and hated because of it.

 

Those people reaaaally don't appreciate it when you ask why they are projecting their insecurities onto you, pretending you possess those qualities, and then punish you for having those qualities. Big no-no. Just be their strange sounding-board and hope they figure themselves out before they spread rumours that you are the embodiment of their worst fears or they even walk off and do the same thing to another person.

.Nobody is perfect

[Marblehead]

.Nobody is perfect

I am the perfect example of that!

[Vmarco]

.Nobody is perfect

 

Yes,...perfect is impossible for those attached to the Judeao-Christian-Muslem traditions. Know god, no Peace; Gnow peace, no god.

[Aetherous]

"You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

- Matthew 5:48, ESV

[WillingToListen]

I am the perfect example of that!

Me too!

 

Yes,...perfect is impossible for those attached to the Judeao-Christian-Muslem traditions. Know god, no Peace; Gnow peace, no god.

 

By perfect, I meant perfect as in devoid of error... which a human cannot be. Humans are fallible, erroneous by nature...

"You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

- Matthew 5:48, ESV

That's how I try to see it, it's hard to keep it in mind at times- especially when you're down

[Vmarco]

Me too!

 

 

By perfect, I meant perfect as in devoid of error... which a human cannot be. Humans are fallible, erroneous by nature...

 

Yes,...humanism is imperfect, impermanent, neurotic beingness. However, that which uses the vehicle of humaness, such as a Tathagata, would be perfect. I agree, the "human cannot be perfect." And that could be said to be a fact as it stands,...however, such a statement can be quite misleading,...suggesting that the driver of the human vehicle cannot be perfect.

 

What would a perfect driver of the human vehicle look like? It would look like that which no longer clings to imperfection for its identity.

[Vmarco]

"You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

- Matthew 5:48, ESV

 

As I've said before, I'm a big advocate of Christians being true to their faith. The world would be much better off if Christians better adhered to their dogma and doctrines.

 

Their Bible says "prove all things" 1 Thess 5:21.

 

So I say, give them a chance. Let them PROVE that they are not False Christians. Let them accept Jesus’ litmus test for determining the true christian faithful, as published in the canonized text,…Mark 16:16-18. A true Christian, "the man who accepts baptism,…will be able to drink deadly poison without harm".

 

Can you imagine the peace that would arise from that? That's a world I'd like to live in.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Vmarco

[manitou]

I do not consider this to be an issue of 'buttons' although people who wish to attack or powergrab are often very good at understanding what they are, or what they might be. This is also my 'responsibility', to not make those so apparent, or not to care to defend them if they are.

 

I find it relates to 'stealing potential' quite well. But that part is harder to explain.

 

 

It really makes me crazy when my pinky accidentally hits a wrong key, it makes a little ping, and everything I've just typed goes up in smoke. Does anyone know what *&!!*k@# key that is??

 

My mind goes metaphysical to the max, so when I talk about buttons I'm also keeping in mind that I am the creator of my own life, at the very basic level. Maybe throw the bardos in, and my last bardo knew perfectly well what exact life I would create for myself in this lifetime; I believe at the time I make decision that it is me who is making the decision. I've come to believe that it really isn't. It's It, whatever you want to call it, the creative life-force, that makes the decision. So my repeated responses to certain stimulae that repeatedly happen over the years (because my life, after all, is exactly how it's supposed to be for my particular spirit to learn what it needs to know in this bardo and continue up the spiral) are what I call buttons.

 

A person whose life depends on doing their best to remove these fixed responses to certain stimulae (buttons) has to dig down and see the source of them before they can even start to turn around. Usually 'acting to the opposite' for a while and/or making an amend or two, if owed, will start the process. People whose lives depend on this are alcoholics and addicts and other -icts of any stripe, I imagine. This is a deep and tough process.

 

K - what is stealing potential in the sense this thread is talking about?

 

Really nice thread!

Edited January 27, 2013 by manitou