Middle DanTien: solar plexus/heart?

[Aetherous]

Curious what sources, but given my view as per above, its context, context, context. I think that's going a little far to say something is misinformation, because it depends what we're talking about, especially in relation to how the burners/tripod/stage of practice is related. If we're talking about the 3dt mco for example, its clearly solar plexus as middle.

 

I disagree, and at least for my own view, what I said stands. Others can disagree. If I find sources I'll post them, but I'm not actively searching anymore, personally.

[Seth Ananda]

The MDT stores and transforms energy. It is central to the emotions; the unprocessed emotions are lower (yellow court is like a lower court for the central controlling heart energy) and the processed emotions are higher in location (heart).

 

One will probably 'feel' energy more in their heart area as heart energy is the most powerful and it is centralized location of refined and processed emotions; But note proximity of lungs where sadness and grief are associated; also think how one gets a 'lump in their throat' from anxiety (spleen). Or one says their 'heart dropped into their stomach' from fright (liver).

 

This makes a lot of sense to me... lots of reply's I want to make to you all but so little time damn it... F%#@!ng Xmas... lol

Edited December 23, 2012 by Seth Ananda

[Seth Ananda]

Just a quick slightly off topic. in Kabbalah tifaret's earliest depictions are centered at the solar plexus.

 

And I have heard Sufis referring to the solar plexus as the 'bottom' of the heart...

Edited December 23, 2012 by Seth Ananda

[Sloppy Zhang]

B.K. Frantzis actually addressed this in his Hsing I DVD (It's taken me a while to work my way through them since I first got them...) It's in the "Metal" installment.

 

He says that as far as the "middle dantien" goes, the solar plexus has been written about as the "lower middle dantien". I forget the actual Chinese name he uses.

 

Anyway, he says that the energetic qualities of this "lower middle" dantien are more or less the same as what you would find as ascribed to the solar plexus chakra (manipura, he mentions it by name) and has to do with the will.

 

Then he goes on to teach a method of reverse breathing that strengthens the solar plexus (well maybe not "strengthens" but stimulates, stretches, activates, etc), which will increase your willpower, which Hsing I is all about!

Edited December 23, 2012 by Sloppy Zhang

[dawei]

No mention yet of '3rd chakra'?

I wondered whether to mention it or not... as it is a 'location' and I was more interested in the overall center.

 

This is CV-12 in the front and GV-6 in the back. Essentially the solar plexus and yellow court area... emotions beware !

[Birch]

 

I wondered whether to mention it or not... as it is a 'location' and I was more interested in the overall center.

 

This is CV-12 in the front and GV-6 in the back. Essentially the solar plexus and yellow court area... emotions beware !

 

Would you speak more to 'emotions beware'?

Thanks!

[Seth Ananda]

I have seen some teachers say that Manipur {which in non theosophical influenced texts is nearly always at the navel} is basically the LDT and I would tend to agree.

Yogi's treat it like a stove, and it being full is a prerequisite to facilitating the awakening of energies that rise up the spine... Much like the dan tien...

Check out this pic:

http://www.poweredbyintuition.com/2011/03/02/the-miracle-of-sahaja-yoga-meditation/sahaja-yoga-chakra-chart/

[GrandmasterP]

Head, Chest, Stomach is close enough.

All else is faff.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=faffing

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Birch]

Yep. Have been dealing with for a couple of months, also digestive/heartburn. I put the issues down to reactions to a death in the family plus a lot of professional stress (2012 has been a shit year). I'm also working on '3rd chakra issues' for want of a better term:-)

[Birch]

Thanks! Aside from the actual physical pain, things are a LOT better than they were.

Anyway, not to go into too personal things but I posted an ebook referring to '3rd chakra issues' in my PPF.

However, if anyone has suggestions for the pain/digestive issues I mentioned I'm all ears.

[Ish]

Does anyone have experience with, or could chime in on, pressure experienced at front and/or back of heart area (between breasts)? As my channels become clearer and clearer, and my energy body expands, I feel strong pressure around front and back of heart area during meditation. Never at the same time, though. It's the area where I have felt the least free flow sensations during meditation, so maybe this area is still working out blockages?

 

Personally I just let one breath release out the mouth (just like the 3 preparatory breaths before starting s-m). Then smile from the heart and just LET GO. The whole chest and heart energy opens and expands.

I too sometimes feel like it can get a bit stagnant around there but this works like a charm for me.

 

Devotion also seems to increase the flow around here, if you feel some connection to a deity or master, opening a sincere connection and using a mantra is powerful.

Heart & crown seem intimately connected. The connection to the natural energies within the Taoist/ Buddhist prayers found in the Light Warrior book are amazing.

[Apech]

Does anyone have experience with, or could chime in on, pressure experienced at front and/or back of heart area (between breasts)? As my channels become clearer and clearer, and my energy body expands, I feel strong pressure around front and back of heart area during meditation. Never at the same time, though. It's the area where I have felt the least free flow sensations during meditation, so maybe this area is still working out blockages?

 

Is this like a solid wall or flat plane that you are kind of pushing against? What do you see when this is happening.

[ralis]

Thanks! Aside from the actual physical pain, things are a LOT better than they were.

Anyway, not to go into too personal things but I posted an ebook referring to '3rd chakra issues' in my PPF.

However, if anyone has suggestions for the pain/digestive issues I mentioned I'm all ears.

 

I had stomach issues a number of years ago which can be traced back to when I was in the military during Viet Nam. I bought a bottle of cayenne extract and within a month the digestive issues were cleared up. Rarely do I have digestive problems to this date.

 

Cayenne is an anti inflammatory.

[Birch]

Thanks Ralis! will check that out.

 

Edit: wrong punctuation

Edited December 23, 2012 by -K-

[Apech]

@ Apech - As I reflect on the episodes, it does feel like a wall (can't pinpoint if the wall is strictly flat) of a barrier my heart's trying to move through. Maybe even a wall of a cube? Yeah, a box might be a good analogy. I do recognize that I don't yet feel a pressure to expand out L & R.

 

Anything you might want to share, A?

 

Light or dark?or any colour?

[dawei]

Would you speak more to 'emotions beware'?

Thanks!

I mentioned the central location of the heart and that it is centrally located to many of the emotional energies of the organs.

 

"The heart is the ruler of the five organ networks." - Huainanzi

 

The 3rd chakra corresponds to the Yellow Court which is the unprocessed emotions of the heart (lower storage chamber of the heart)

 

When you work on clearing up channels or energy areas, you break up stagnant (or suppressed) energy... releasing this energy is of course the goal but you will release emotional energies. People will differ in how those emotional energies are released depending on what has been stored or suppressed, but some may experience something akin to a breakdown.

 

For you, the 3rd chakra is Yin. The frontside gate oversees the emotions and the backside the will.

 

I recall one lady which I provided some Medical Qigong and she had severe emotional problems buried. When I did the simple 'raking' of Qi down her body the vibrations over her Yellow Court area made my hands painful. I could not even approach it. I decided the only direction of release was going to be vertically upwards (she was laying down) and since I was not able to approach her frontside gate I approached the area from the backside gate.

Edited December 23, 2012 by dawei

[skydog]

.

Edited December 23, 2012 by sinansencer

[idquest]

I forgot to mention: I see no colors. It feels heavy. An experience of anti-spaciousness, for sure.

Some time ago I had pain in the left chest. I thought that was muscle/ligament pain but I decided to check it anyway. So I went to a medical doctor. She said she couldn't hear any problem with my heart so I asked her how to distinguish between muscle/ligament pain and the heart pain. SHe said the muscle/ligament pain would feel like acute, sharp pain, and the heart problems would feel like pressure in the area.

The muscle pain in the chest can also be alleviated by massaging a specific tendon down from left clavicle. It goes deep but still within the reach. Any acupuncturist or massagist would know this tendon.

[skydog]

Hmm

 

I decided to experiment with a few things one of them was to watch the spirals inside and outside the body instead of shaking I was around people so perhaps it was justified experiement, did this for 12 hours one day, also completely let go of focus on ldt, It seems to block my energy doing so, like I put too much effort in, anyways Ive also been doing stillness movement this week, have got some EXTREMELY DEEP STILLNESS in zazen this week, also the energy goes straight to my third eye and even to above my head I can feel it, also Ive felt massive pain in my forehead/third eye, I just ate to get rid of the pain, but perhaps this was stupid. Also Ive felt very "drunk" a few times this week..I also felt maybe I should keep a very very light awareness on ldt as suggested but I find it difficult to do so without blocking my energy but still feel high if I do..

[dawei]

Thanks for your contribution, dawei.

 

Interesting about your healing. I had a healing experience once that reverberated the importance of "treading lightly" around the heart/solar plexus area. The need to approach the area with gentleness. Emotional and spirtual pains may not be readily noticable to some.

 

Your note about the front & back of heart. Is that from Johnson? Can I read up on it online, or in (affordable) print material?

 

Lastly, have you witnessed anyone having a "breakdown" from releases in the heart area? If so, did it lead to a more peaceful and functional way of being?

I thought to comment about treading lightly with the heart but you have now beat me to that

 

As for printed material or JJ stuff, send me a PM with your email. not sure I can find it.

 

I can't speak to a person's long term results as most of my work was part of classes and clinicals; So I did not see them much later. The practitioners would very often work on each other and so I did get to see some practitioners change over time. So I have seen several releases and much crying as a part of it. I can't say that i have seen a full blown breakdown but a few patients which came clearly had severe emotion traumas or depression. One 'felt' very much like her spirit had already left her. Another like her energy was simply evil. I think Michael can speak better to case studies and that would be an interesting topic.

[MERCELESS ONE]

Hi bums!

I thought i should start this thread as its a confusing topic.

 

Why do some texts/teachers put the MDT in the heart while others put it in the solar plexus?

 

 

My own attempts at deciphering this have failed, including just following my own experience.

 

When I cook chi in LDT there comes a point where an abundance of chi rises to my solar plexus, yet other energy movements will stimulate and open the heart, and the heart has that 'middle' kind of feeling to it, at least for me...

 

Are these locations related in some way, Is one just wrong, or is one used for certain things while the other for other stuff?

 

Please illuminate!

yes they are related. the energies of these two chakra share a space thats why its called the triple burner system. once energized they will move energy back and forth to one another. and yes they both have their uses. the solarplexus is used in controling the energy field after yin yang kung,ie changing frequencies and such. and the heart chakra, when used correctly can create a torsion field in the body helping sustain energy and clear out blockages in that area.

[RiverSnake]

My understanding based on what I have been taught is that the LDT is not in one point but is constantly expanding and contracting and therefore as long as you meditate in the general vicinity of the center the Chi will get there.

 

I would think that a similar concept would apply to the MDT.......though that is just an extrapolation of what I have been taught.....not my experience.

 

-My 2 cents, peace

Edited December 27, 2012 by OldGreen

[SonOfTheGods]

Hi bums!

I thought i should start this thread as its a confusing topic.

 

Why do some texts/teachers put the MDT in the heart while others put it in the solar plexus?

 

 

My own attempts at deciphering this have failed, including just following my own experience.

 

When I cook chi in LDT there comes a point where an abundance of chi rises to my solar plexus, yet other energy movements will stimulate and open the heart, and the heart has that 'middle' kind of feeling to it, at least for me...

 

Are these locations related in some way, Is one just wrong, or is one used for certain things while the other for other stuff?

 

Please illuminate!

The Golden Dawn/Regardie does that, just makes the solar plexus and heart one big hexagram ganglion. Tyson does this too.

[teknix]

Hi bums!

I thought i should start this thread as its a confusing topic.

 

Why do some texts/teachers put the MDT in the heart while others put it in the solar plexus?

 

 

My own attempts at deciphering this have failed, including just following my own experience.

 

When I cook chi in LDT there comes a point where an abundance of chi rises to my solar plexus, yet other energy movements will stimulate and open the heart, and the heart has that 'middle' kind of feeling to it, at least for me...

 

Are these locations related in some way, Is one just wrong, or is one used for certain things while the other for other stuff?

 

Please illuminate!

 

 

The ones I read put the heart and solar plexus (fire) both in the MDT. Then they focus on either fire or smile, but both are equally relevant.

[CrunchyChocolate555]

The middle Dan Tien is the diaphragm according to Dr. Yang Jwing Ming. Makes sense to me! He had a compelling argument for why that is but you'd have to read one of his books to find out more.