I want bliss really badly. What is the quickest path to my goal?

[lifeforce]

My experience with Shaktipat is documented here : http://thetaobums.co...constant-bliss/.

Not sure if you're ready for it though. Mine was probably the result of years of meditation and neigong which prepared me.

 

http://www.gabrielcousens.com/DRCOUSENS/SHAKTIPAT/tabid/99/language/en-US/Default.aspx

Edited September 8, 2012 by bankei

[et-thoughts]

Mark Griffin mentioned that the Guru (that is, a true guru who can transmit enlightenment directly) is only limited by the student's capcity to recieve; If the enlightned state was forced into a person before they were ready they would get fried.

 

The karmic repercussions of one forcing the state of enlightenment would involve losing the state of enlightenment and the student may still fail to appreciate the gift they got and just give it away...

the pain would be a gift.. because i am a materialistic minded person. You don't know what it'll mean to me to have proof that spirituality is real and not just placebo. I highly doubt i will feel anything at all, but if I do, i will be grateful to be so lucky. If i do feel pain, i'm confident, from what i've read, that I can train myself so that the pain will go away.

 

Careful with what you wish for... you just might get it with a bit more than you bargained for... if what you want is a sign of spirituality... what you have to do involves three steps:

• admit to be powerless over the matter —that your life as is is meaningless .
   
  
• Come to believe that a Power greater than self could restore the self to sanity - ask for divine intercesion and guidance.
   
  
• Make a decision to turn your will and your live over to the care of God - get the answer
  

Just remember that the sage response could be done by doing nothing (without responding they respond)

Edited September 8, 2012 by et-thoughts

[dc9]

I just got back from the sahaja meditation. Can't say I really felt anything, but i did have a hard time focusing on what they told me to do and i was constantly skeptical. I did learn their meditation method of awakening kundalini. It's on their website as well, http://www.freemeditation.com/online-meditation/self-realization-workshop-kundalini-awakening/. Then they had a more experienced teacher/instructor stand behind the newcomers and do some type of hand motion as a way to raise the energy up. I did feel something subtle, but now i'm home and there's nothing lasting.

 

Tibetan_Ice, thanks for that detailed post. You say you don't like feeling on the verge of orgasm all the time. That's what I want. I also read in this book that one way that people unintentionally awaken kundalini is through lots of foreplay without orgasm. I assume this means pent up sexual energy will lead to kundalini. So if anyone has read the multi orgasmic man, i'm going to follow those methods. No ejaculation, trying to feel/visualize the sexual energy, and draw it up my spine... this seems like a brute force way to get what I want.

 

I am considering KAP too, but they cost $600 for one course...... ?? Can anyone really justify spending that much money on online lessons that aren't guaranteed to work? Don't get me wrong, I crave a quick path, but this is $600 for a CHANCE to awaken kundalini... no guarantee.

[Alchemistgeorge]

So if anyone has read the multi orgasmic man, i'm going to follow those methods. No ejaculation, trying to feel/visualize the sexual energy, and draw it up my spine... this seems like a brute force way to get what I want.

I haven't read the multi-orgasmic man in years, but I don't recommend it. It doesn't contain the complete techniques. I recommend that you instead get Mantak Chia's previous book "Taoist Secrets of Love" which is long out of print - you can get it online for about $5. When you have the book, skim the parts that talk about the downside of ejaculating and focus on the rest. And the safety precautions.

 

The good news is it really works. The bad news is that it requires daily practice over an extended period of time. However, the practice is, well, really fun. And you really ought to open your microcosmic orbit first. And then there are the safety precautions. You seem to be in a hurry so you may be tempted to use force and skip the safety precautions.

 

While you are waiting for the book to arrive from Amazon/Alibris/Powells/etc, I recommend you read this essay: "the quest for spiritual orgasm" by Michael Winn, one of Mantak Chia's senior students and co-author of several of Chia's books. It describes Michael's kundalini awakening experience and the very simple method he used to get it and it talks at length about his experiences and research in many systems and many traditions about using sexual energy for spiritual growth. I've taken classes with Michael, he knows his stuff.

 

My experience of learning the sexual practices is that it is quite difficult to stop ejaculating, and that one will "accidentally" ejaculate many many times while learning. You could decide these are valuable learning experiences or you can condemn yourself, feel bad, get depressed, and decide you are a worthless failure each time you ejaculate. None of these self-flagellating activities will have any positive effect on you what-so-ever - they won't improve your life, your energy, your practice or your spiritual development. So, you could just skip "beating yourself up" - no one hits a home run every time they are at bat.

[RiverSnake]

If you put in the neccesary work then it is guranteed to work.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Nelida]

I wish all the best orgasmic bliss for you dc9, but reading your posts makes me a little sad for you, how do you reconcile constant bliss with this much desire? if ever you have read anything to inform yourself in your search for this, you must have seen something about the release of desire, about being without expectations, about perseverance, I don't have to add to all the heartfelt posts made before, but all of them were so true! I only hear you say want want want, orgasmic fantastic everlasting, now now now, or maybe even yesterday, materialist, impatient, I can't, I won't, somebody must give me..... this is all diametrically opposed to the thing you are looking for, how blissfull do you think you'd feel if just that were not so much a part of this? It's the way that's the beautiful and blissful thing, it's not a state to be arrived at and then it never leaves you. But everyone already told you that.

Maybe you could check out parallelperception.com

His teaching has a most direct quality, he is a very powerful man, but don't kid yourself, if you go to him with the attitude you seem to have now, he will shatter it without a second thought and will not make it easy on you, and that is putting it very mildly, but maybe this will be able to show you the humility you are looking for without being aware of it

True heartfelt abandon already gives you so much bliss that working toward your orgasmic bliss, if you still want it, will be a delight!

 

∞Nelida

[de_paradise]

I only hear you say want want want, orgasmic fantastic everlasting, now now now, or maybe even yesterday, materialist, impatient, I can't, I won't, somebody must give me..... this is all diametrically opposed to the thing you are looking for,

 

True. His mind is that of a heroin addict, yet comes on a spiritual forum. Get ready for the long haul flight dc9, its probably no coincidence you dropped by. This could be fun.

Edited September 8, 2012 by de_paradise

[Nelida]

True. His mind is that of a heroin addict, yet comes on a spiritual forum. Get ready for the long haul dc9, its probably no coincidence you dropped by. This should be fun.

 

lol, yes I agree, brace yourself this may be a hell of a ride...

I read a nice phrase,( I believe in another forum, but might have been here, )

'spiritual materialism' this comes to mind here...not only in this case, but unfortunately I see this in many people on a certain path, people may have the best of intentions, but blind spots may be huge and unnoticed.

 

∞Nelida

[thelerner]

Frankly I don't think U, right now, can find bliss. To find it U will have to change & change is hard. Change takes time, Change requires patience. The search for bliss 'right now' is the search for a drug. It won't last long, U have no foundation.

 

Get a foundation, start where you are. 3 different people have mentioned Ajahn Brahms; he's big on bliss or Jhana states but getting there takes work. The good news is most of the work is subtraction, less thinking, less noise, less reaction. You get there by changing U.

[dc9]

I wish all the best orgasmic bliss for you dc9, but reading your posts makes me a little sad for you, how do you reconcile constant bliss with this much desire? if ever you have read anything to inform yourself in your search for this, you must have seen something about the release of desire, about being without expectations, about perseverance, I don't have to add to all the heartfelt posts made before, but all of them were so true! I only hear you say want want want, orgasmic fantastic everlasting, now now now, or maybe even yesterday, materialist, impatient, I can't, I won't, somebody must give me..... this is all diametrically opposed to the thing you are looking for, how blissfull do you think you'd feel if just that were not so much a part of this? It's the way that's the beautiful and blissful thing, it's not a state to be arrived at and then it never leaves you. But everyone already told you that.

Maybe you could check out parallelperception.com

His teaching has a most direct quality, he is a very powerful man, but don't kid yourself, if you go to him with the attitude you seem to have now, he will shatter it without a second thought and will not make it easy on you, and that is putting it very mildly, but maybe this will be able to show you the humility you are looking for without being aware of it

True heartfelt abandon already gives you so much bliss that working toward your orgasmic bliss, if you still want it, will be a delight!

 

∞Nelida

 

well, i don't quite know what to say. You're not wrong, i understand that's a flaw of mine, but it's how I am. It's not fun being a person with this much desire but this little patience and discipline. Especially now that I decided i shouldn't ever ejaculate again, i'm sure that's going to lead to some interesting emotional states down the road.

 

I will try to work on it, someone else in this thread recommended me a book that I plan on following that basically tells me how to live in the present.

 

But why are all the websites you guys link me to get some lessons or talk to a guru so expensive?

[et-thoughts]

U will have to change & change is hard. Change takes time, Change requires patience.

 

At some points change is easy and only takes one instant... its getting to those points and choosing to change there that may be a bit of a challenge and take almost forever to attain :-) if one knows how and wants to, it may be easier to do ...

[Nelida]

why do you think how you are now is so much set in stone? I used to be so different from how I am now, and I honestly believed these were my traits of character and circumstances that I got to be this way, but so many, if not all of these things are hardly part of me and my life anymore, and I believed I never would be able to change this, but somewhere down the road I realized that a lot of things had actually changed!

I was much much more impatient ( well, I still am, sometimes, gotta say I wasn't disciplined, I used to think I was ambitious, only to realize in growing up more that I couldn't bring myself to work and study with the ambition I saw in fellow students, I was moody, short-fused, pretty pessimistic, I have been angry with the entire world, I didn't take responsibility for my actions... I could say more...but you get my point

When I got up the courage to really start in another direction, and really figure out what my life meant to me and what I wanted to do, all that changed, not overnight, but it did, now that I have found my true true passion everything is so much easier and more blissful!! however, I'm working twice as hard, things are not easy in that sense, but it doesn't matter

 

you don't need expensive teachers, really, and be sure to have good recommendations before you spend this kind of money on any of this, but truth is, everyone has expenses and stuff, so I get that they have to charge you for things. Do you do something like taiji or bagua? that's affordable in lesson fee, I think, and you can put in as much time as you like, for free

 

If you can't believe you can do all this changing, I can believe it for you for a little while

 

∞Nelida

[et-thoughts]

...it's how I am. It's not fun being a person with this much desire but this little patience and discipline.

 

Well if thats how you are I suppose thats how you are... (nice excuse to justify what you choose to do instead of learning to be and doing other stuff) when and if you choose to be different than how you are now consider realizing the truth of what some have sought to tell you...

[Birch]

The karmic repercussions of one forcing the state of enlightenment would involve losing the state of enlightenment and the student may still fail to appreciate the gift they got and just give it away...

 

But 'technically' the impulse for enlightenment would come from the source of enlightenment itself, right? So the student 'going for shaktipat' would themselves be part of that impulse. No matter 'who' it goes through to get wherever. The 'karmic working' stuff seems to me to be entirely impersonal (as is the source of enlightenment) although each person self-attributes themselves to whatever conditions etc 'happen to be' in their lives while being part of the process to 'evolve the whole' through 'karmic' resolution.

 

It's IMO one of the reasons why dogma and religion are more of a hindrance than a benefit (because they are prone to reification and degradation, misunderstanding etc until people get far enough on their paths to dispense with them anyway) and why it is said that 'liberation' is of benefit to all sentient beings.

 

Paradoxically, although I'm sure there are flaws in my idea (one of them being based on a fashionable 'holographic universe idea' which I figure just the same as 'as above, so below), it's also why I'm so interested in astrology etc because through it (not the 'pop' type) the probable (the degree of probability would be a good discussion point) conditions of one's life could be anticipated and allowed for to maximum benefit for all while the process of liberation is consciously undertaken.

 

 

 

--opinion alert---

[templarmonk]

So, whatever you want sounds like if you wanted to be a doctor, and buy a degree, but you don`t want to study on college or practice in the hospitals. You just want to feel like a doctor.

 

This is the same mate, You can pay all you want , but if you don`t practice daily, there will be no results.

 

PAX

[Birch]

This is the same mate, You can pay all you want , but if you don`t practice daily, there will be no results.

 

Why not?

 

I'm trying to be obtuse but I suddenly wondered 'why not'? If you can understand 'why not' then you could do something about it. Immediately.

[Birch]

I just got back from the sahaja meditation. Can't say I really felt anything, but i did have a hard time focusing on what they told me to do and i was constantly skeptical. I did learn their meditation method of awakening kundalini. It's on their website as well, http://www.freemedit...lini-awakening/. Then they had a more experienced teacher/instructor stand behind the newcomers and do some type of hand motion as a way to raise the energy up. I did feel something subtle, but now i'm home and there's nothing lasting.

 

Tibetan_Ice, thanks for that detailed post. You say you don't like feeling on the verge of orgasm all the time. That's what I want. I also read in this book that one way that people unintentionally awaken kundalini is through lots of foreplay without orgasm. I assume this means pent up sexual energy will lead to kundalini. So if anyone has read the multi orgasmic man, i'm going to follow those methods. No ejaculation, trying to feel/visualize the sexual energy, and draw it up my spine... this seems like a brute force way to get what I want.

 

I am considering KAP too, but they cost $600 for one course...... ?? Can anyone really justify spending that much money on online lessons that aren't guaranteed to work? Don't get me wrong, I crave a quick path, but this is $600 for a CHANCE to awaken kundalini... no guarantee.

 

You mean you want to feel "feeling on the verge of orgasm all the time."? Or not?

Tibetan_Ice wrote a really good post. I can relate to this - ahem - feeling on the verge of orgasm all the time which, as it turns out - ain't as much fun as you'd think. And you'd think (perhaps?) that spontaneous orgasm might be fun? Ok, it's a bit fun , but it hasn't actually changed lots and lots of things about me. Or at least, not the things I want changed.

[et-thoughts]

But 'technically' the impulse for enlightenment would come from the source of enlightenment itself, right? So the student 'going for shaktipat' would themselves be part of that impulse. No matter 'who' it goes through to get wherever. The 'karmic working' stuff seems to me to be entirely impersonal (as is the source of enlightenment) although each person self-attributes themselves to whatever conditions etc 'happen to be' in their lives while being part of the process to 'evolve the whole' through 'karmic' resolution.

 

It's IMO one of the reasons why dogma and religion are more of a hindrance than a benefit (because they are prone to reification and degradation, misunderstanding etc until people get far enough on their paths to dispense with them anyway) and why it is said that 'liberation' is of benefit to all sentient beings.

 

Paradoxically, although I'm sure there are flaws in my idea (one of them being based on a fashionable 'holographic universe idea' which I figure just the same as 'as above, so below), it's also why I'm so interested in astrology etc because through it (not the 'pop' type) the probable (the degree of probability would be a good discussion point) conditions of one's life could be anticipated and allowed for to maximum benefit for all while the process of liberation is consciously undertaken.

 

--opinion alert---

 

'technically' the student looking for enlightenment anywhere different than the source is looking in the wrong place :-=)

I see dogma as a stepping stone to understanding (though sometimes its actually a false veil to hide the truth)...

until people get far enough on their paths to realize the truth dogma stands as the truth... ideally one would discover the truth for oneself and cultivate the truth... Unfortunately 'dogma' sometimes is used in a different way... to get people far enough on the path that by the time they realize the truth they will not care about following the true path anymore... Some academics are like this... BTW 'liberation' of understanding isn't beneficial to all sentient beings... paradoxically the 'enslavement to the truth' is what gives sentient beings the freedom to choose... I like to say we are bound to believe while free to choose what to believe... in a slightly different form we can choose to accept or reject the truth and that does not change what the truth happens to be... I like probabilities, though prefer certainties ... even if certain uncertainties remain unknown... The ultimate benefit for all includes the ultimate individual benefits of each! The process of 'liberation' involves keeping certain possibilities constrained to just possibilities as the ultimate reality becomes the only real consciously undertaken possibility.

[Birch]

'technically' the student looking for enlightenment anywhere different than the source is looking in the wrong place :-=)

I see dogma as a stepping stone to understanding (though sometimes its actually a false veil to hide the truth)...

until people get far enough on their paths to realize the truth dogma stands as the truth... ideally one would discover the truth for oneself and cultivate the truth... Unfortunately 'dogma' sometimes is used in a different way... to get people far enough on the path that by the time they realize the truth they will not care about following the true path anymore... Some academics are like this... BTW 'liberation' of understanding isn't beneficial to all sentient beings... paradoxically the 'enslavement to the truth' is what gives sentient beings the freedom to choose... I like to say we are bound to believe while free to choose what to believe... in a slightly different form we can choose to accept or reject the truth and that does not change what the truth happens to be... I like probabilities, though prefer certainties ... even if certain uncertainties remain unknown... The ultimate benefit for all includes the ultimate individual benefits of each! The process of 'liberation' involves keeping certain possibilities constrained to just possibilities as the ultimate reality becomes the only real consciously undertaken possibility.

 

Ok, I'll have to sit about with this as well:-) Thanks though!

[dc9]

eh i don't know what to do. I don't know how much longer i could keep up with this no ejaculation thing, and i figure that's my best shot at awakening kundalini. I tried to do the microcosmit orbit but i can't keep my mind focused on any sensation of energy... i just don't feel energy. I do feel the sexual energy from feeling so pent up because i've been "edging", masturbating without ejaculation basically, but i'm not able to move it up my spine like they say i'm supposed to. All of this is making me incredibly, incredibly frustrated right now.

[Aetherous]

This is a mess...

[Birch]

eh i don't know what to do. I don't know how much longer i could keep up with this no ejaculation thing, and i figure that's my best shot at awakening kundalini. I tried to do the microcosmit orbit but i can't keep my mind focused on any sensation of energy... i just don't feel energy. I do feel the sexual energy from feeling so pent up because i've been "edging", masturbating without ejaculation basically, but i'm not able to move it up my spine like they say i'm supposed to. All of this is making me incredibly, incredibly frustrated right now.

 

And you've done ALL that in 11 posts-worth? WOW.

Or have you just been reading TTB's very intensely?

 

Edit:

 

Edited September 9, 2012 by -K-

[dc9]

This is a mess...

 

i've been reading the book you recommended btw, i like it so far more than the other books i've been reading because there's no mystical-talk that i have to be skeptical about. only at the attention/interpretation part but it's good so far, i'm interested and that's what matters.

And you've done ALL that in 11 posts-worth? WOW.

Or have you just been reading TTB's very intensely?

 

Edit:

 

 

i've been doing a lot of reading, either buying or downloading or googling anything i think can help me reach my goal. i have a lot of time on my hand you see.. but it's also hard because i'm pretty sure i have a bit of ADD and i have a hard time focusing.

Edited September 9, 2012 by dc9

[Fū Yue]

eh i don't know what to do. I don't know how much longer i could keep up with this no ejaculation thing, and i figure that's my best shot at awakening kundalini. I tried to do the microcosmit orbit but i can't keep my mind focused on any sensation of energy... i just don't feel energy. I do feel the sexual energy from feeling so pent up because i've been "edging", masturbating without ejaculation basically, but i'm not able to move it up my spine like they say i'm supposed to. All of this is making me incredibly, incredibly frustrated right now.

 

The techniques in the book assume that you have attained at least some measure of control over the natural forces of the mind and body. Which you have not. Before you try to mess with your biological mechanisms, you have to actually open up those biological mechanisms to the idea of tinkering.

 

If your body and mind are against each other, you won't be able to do anything. Your practice isnt going to give up the goods without the foreplay, instant gratification entitlement is a real turn off for kundalini. The current has to be cultivated. You're going to be with this body for a long while. You've been with it for a while already, this is a long-term commitment and not a one night stand.

[dc9]

The techniques in the book assume that you have attained at least some measure of control over the natural forces of the mind and body. Which you have not. Before you try to mess with your biological mechanisms, you have to actually open up those biological mechanisms to the idea of tinkering.

 

If your body and mind are against each other, you won't be able to do anything. Your practice isnt going to give up the goods without the foreplay, instant gratification entitlement is a real turn off for kundalini. The current has to be cultivated. You're going to be with this body for a long while. You've been with it for a while already, this is a long-term commitment and not a one night stand.

 

yeah. you're probably right, I'm just not at the stage where i can move energy and when I read how i'm supposed to "move" this energy into my spine i get frustrated.

 

should i call this whole sexual energy thing a bust and just go wack it right now?