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dmattwads

Qi and charisma

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I have been pondering a shift of emphasis in my qigong routine. Now that I am in TCM school, and can go to the school clinic I have been told I am qi deficient. This really came as no surprise to me since I have felt pretty tired for a long time. What did come as somewhat of a surprise to me though was that I was told the qi deficiency was also responsible for some of my emotional issues. Since the main emotion I have been working on for a while now is loneliness, and I was not really able to isolate it to any one specific organ as I had with other issues in the past, it caused me to re-evaluate something.

 

For the most part, the vast majority of my qigong forms have been balancing ones. The 8 brocades, inner smile, and healing sounds all are meant to balance qi in the organs, and thus the emotions. These forms do not really do much though to build qi. Coupling this with the fact that I was no able to pin down loneliness to any organs well, led me to consider that perhaps such "empty" feelings like loneliness are not as much an emotional imbalance as they are a lack. After all loneliness is a very "empty" feeling. This in turn led me to consider something else...

 

I was considering that most people who are considered "high energy" people also tend to be very charismatic. Think of Hollywood stars and such. They generally tend to be very high energy, and also very popular. On the other hand I've personally noticed that when I am feeling low energy not only do I tend to feel lonely internally, but I also seem to repel people. On those rare occasions when I actually do feel energetic I notice that people seem to be drawn to me. This has caused me to consider if what we call popularity is actually people's reactions to our qi level? Would a deficient person tend to sort of be a energetic drain on people and as people subconsciously feel this they tend to avoid having their qi drained? On the other hand would the high energy charismatic people who tend to have people flock to them, do so because subconsciously people enjoy to bask in their energy?

 

With this new theory in mind I am thinking of changing up my qigong routine from one of balancing to one of building. It would not make much sense for me to balance my qi if I do not have much qi to balance in the first place. I think I shall do an experiment and see if a qi building qigong routine would have an effect in this realm. I think rather than focusing on the 8 brocades, inner smile and healing sounds, I will try Yi Jin Jing and reverse lower dan tien breathing for a while and see what effect that has upon me, and upon how people relate to me as well.

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Wow, that's a massive theory!

 

Do you think that qi-deficient people can only get qi from other people? That would up-end the whole "charismatic" deal then??

 

Anyway, while there's "building qi" to be done. I reckon it's probably useful to do something to stay the leak of qi that you're building - or that you had. Because if you were/are deficient, it must have been going elsewhere all this time?

 

And I kind of have an inkling it was going towards the people you were attempting to win over with all the exercises - in an attempt to get it back again, if you see where I'm going with this?

 

I'm kind of rambling. But I found your post really interesting. :)

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Everything is energy. People generally enjoy being around positive and energetic people because it makes them feel good.

 

-When i began my Chi-Gung practice i noticed within a short time that my popularity with others increased. I have noticed a definite correlation in my own life.

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Wow, that's a massive theory!

 

Do you think that qi-deficient people can only get qi from other people? That would up-end the whole "charismatic" deal then??

 

Anyway, while there's "building qi" to be done. I reckon it's probably useful to do something to stay the leak of qi that you're building - or that you had. Because if you were/are deficient, it must have been going elsewhere all this time?

 

And I kind of have an inkling it was going towards the people you were attempting to win over with all the exercises - in an attempt to get it back again, if you see where I'm going with this?

 

I'm kind of rambling. But I found your post really interesting. :)

 

Do you think that qi-deficient people can only get qi from other people? no, which is why I want to change my qigong routine rather than go out and be a vampire lol. I do how ever think that most people don't even know what qi is, but subconsciously "feel" someone with a lot of qi, and it feels good.

 

if you see where I'm going with this? actually I have no idea where your going with this lol, but glad you found the post interesting never the less.

 

My personal theory is that doing a lot a balancing excersices with out doing much building excersices used qi in the balancing process, but did not build any more to replace it.

 

Empty Water, I find your experience interesting, and it sort of confirms what I suspected.

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My personal theory is that doing a lot a balancing excersices with out doing much building excersices used qi in the balancing process, but did not build any more to replace it.

 

 

Yep this is why a complete Qigong/Neigong system is recommended. You will get a good mix of balancing, cleansing, building and shifting your vibration.

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I think most people are energy vampires, the more holes they have in their energy the more they try to get them filled by trying to manipulate energy out of other people because they have no idea how to repair them themselves so they look to the outside world

 

Loneliness is a difficult issue though because it goes right to the brain stem in our evolutionary development when we used to live in groups when being ostracised would probably mean death, so it is one of the hardest insecurities to confront in my experience, I don't know for sure but I imagine it would involve many different areas like the kidneys, heart and throat.

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I have been pondering a shift of emphasis in my qigong routine. Now that I am in TCM school, and can go to the school clinic I have been told I am qi deficient. This really came as no surprise to me since I have felt pretty tired for a long time. What did come as somewhat of a surprise to me though was that I was told the qi deficiency was also responsible for some of my emotional issues. Since the main emotion I have been working on for a while now is loneliness, and I was not really able to isolate it to any one specific organ as I had with other issues in the past, it caused me to re-evaluate something.

 

For the most part, the vast majority of my qigong forms have been balancing ones. The 8 brocades, inner smile, and healing sounds all are meant to balance qi in the organs, and thus the emotions. These forms do not really do much though to build qi. Coupling this with the fact that I was no able to pin down loneliness to any organs well, led me to consider that perhaps such "empty" feelings like loneliness are not as much an emotional imbalance as they are a lack. After all loneliness is a very "empty" feeling. This in turn led me to consider something else...

 

I was considering that most people who are considered "high energy" people also tend to be very charismatic. Think of Hollywood stars and such. They generally tend to be very high energy, and also very popular. On the other hand I've personally noticed that when I am feeling low energy not only do I tend to feel lonely internally, but I also seem to repel people. On those rare occasions when I actually do feel energetic I notice that people seem to be drawn to me. This has caused me to consider if what we call popularity is actually people's reactions to our qi level? Would a deficient person tend to sort of be a energetic drain on people and as people subconsciously feel this they tend to avoid having their qi drained? On the other hand would the high energy charismatic people who tend to have people flock to them, do so because subconsciously people enjoy to bask in their energy?

 

With this new theory in mind I am thinking of changing up my qigong routine from one of balancing to one of building. It would not make much sense for me to balance my qi if I do not have much qi to balance in the first place. I think I shall do an experiment and see if a qi building qigong routine would have an effect in this realm. I think rather than focusing on the 8 brocades, inner smile and healing sounds, I will try Yi Jin Jing and reverse lower dan tien breathing for a while and see what effect that has upon me, and upon how people relate to me as well.

 

In my experience you are both right and wrong. Your intuition regarding building qi is correct, yet your loneliness issues are abit like the story of the hen and the egg; who came first?

 

From what I've experienced, my most "energetic" days are also my most turbulent. So charisma and energy may not have a connection. Yet don't underestimate your own perception of your inner state, and how this affects your behaviour and internal monologue. If your precetion of your state changes, so does the way people percieve you.

 

One example here at TTB are people who become so obsessed with retention that they create a negative self-image from not being able to retain. This creates a whole array of sexual, social and energetic issues basically derived from their own perception of their state and the fact that they derive almost their whole identity as a "cultivator" from their success or failure in having "saved" Jing, thus having more "power". Funny thing is that they would have had much greater success in building Jing from not focusing on gaining it at all.

 

so its a slippery slope.

 

Do work on building, but th TCM paradigm notoriously overestimates a physicalistic/vitalistic perspective thinking that all emotional issues are basis for experience, behaviour and emotions. It simply is not so. In most cases its the opposite that is true; Do you supress emotions? Bang! your liver, your spleen your heart or all of the above is affected leading to depression, lethargy or bursts of anger. All depleting qi.

In most well balanced systems, including qigong systems, the place of the emotions are just a such anchored in how we identify with them as where they supposedly originate.

 

What we are is always replete with endless energy, as part of the Big community!

 

Just my 2 kroner.

 

h

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You could do primordial qigong. It builds a lof of energy and is very balancing. Also you could increase the time spent in standing meidatiton.

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Yep this is why a complete Qigong/Neigong system is recommended. You will get a good mix of balancing, cleansing, building and shifting your vibration.

+++

OP, this is an excellent recommendation.

 

I gather from your posts that you haven't actually studied qigong or neigong except from what you received from books or DVD's? I ask the question, why do you go to TCM school and not just read some books? The answer is obvious - so you will learn the whole system from people experienced in it. So now I ask the question, why not also consider going to a qigong/neigong school as in medical qigong, since your desired occupation is in the field of healing and helping others?

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You could do primordial qigong. It builds a lof of energy and is very balancing. Also you could increase the time spent in standing meidatiton.

 

 

What is primordial qigong? Also for all I've heard about standing meditation (been doing about 20 min a day) I have never felt the energy boost that is supposed to come from it. :-/.

 

I thought I should specify my own experience with loneliness a bit so that it makes more sense. When I've found emotions that originate in my organs, usually they just are, and are not usually based upon any specific experience. Once I remove the bad energy associated with that emotion from said organ the problem clears up.

 

In the case of loneliness I can not really find its source in any specific organ (though sometimes I can find its effect in some of them). My experience with loneliness seems to be experience based. What I mean by this is that most of the time when I go up to people and try to befriend them (actually try to hang out with them beyond small talk) most of them usually get this same glazed over look and make an excuse and go about their business. I've also noticed that 90% of the time I am also in a qi deficiency state. The contrast to this state has been those rare 10% times that I actually felt as though I had a decent amount of qi. It was at these same times that with out effort people would come up to me and put forth the effort to befriend me. Eventually when most people you seek to befriend show no interest you kind of wonder wtf?

 

Now I'm not saying that loneliness is the result of qi deficiency (but then again I'm not ruling it out either), but that a difficulty making friends could be a result of qi deficiency, which then leads to loneliness based upon experience. If you have noticed people who tend to have lots of friends and make friends easily, if you listen to their friends they will often say that so-and-so is so full of energy and/or life. I think they are unintentionally being quite literal. I remember in high school, the jocks always were very popular, and obviously jocks have to have a tonne of energy to be good at sports. On the other hand the 90 pound, white as sour creme weakling who does not have many friends also does not strike the casual observer as an example of radiant vitality either. Same could be said of a cheerleader all cheerful and bubbly, and the leader of the girls chess team who just got the head gear on her braces adjusted (ok braces don't really have anything to do with it, but I'm painting a picture here lol). Again the cheerleader is full of vitality, energy and cheer, while chess team chick probably has a hard time opening the mayonnaise jar by herself.

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+++

OP, this is an excellent recommendation.

 

I gather from your posts that you haven't actually studied qigong or neigong except from what you received from books or DVD's? I ask the question, why do you go to TCM school and not just read some books? The answer is obvious - so you will learn the whole system from people experienced in it. So now I ask the question, why not also consider going to a qigong/neigong school as in medical qigong, since your desired occupation is in the field of healing and helping others?

 

That is a good question, and the reason is because when I began qigong I was in Fairbanks Alaska where there are no qigong schools at all. I would have loved to have gone to one, but there were none to be had.

 

* As a side note, the forms of qigong I have done/do are rather simple like the 8 brocades, inner smile/ healing sounds, which most instructors say are pretty safe ones to do on one's own.

Edited by dmattwads

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I was considering that most people who are considered "high energy" people also tend to be very charismatic. Think of Hollywood stars and such. They generally tend to be very high energy, and also very popular. On the other hand I've personally noticed that when I am feeling low energy not only do I tend to feel lonely internally, but I also seem to repel people. On those rare occasions when I actually do feel energetic I notice that people seem to be drawn to me. This has caused me to consider if what we call popularity is actually people's reactions to our qi level? Would a deficient person tend to sort of be a energetic drain on people and as people subconsciously feel this they tend to avoid having their qi drained? On the other hand would the high energy charismatic people who tend to have people flock to them, do so because subconsciously people enjoy to bask in their energy?

 

 

 

A lot of maybes here... because there is a lot involved.

 

Psychology(beliefs, values, etc)/physiology (stored trauma, organ issues, body armor, etc)... so you may have high energy, but if you think that that is bad or people will make fun of you, you'll limit yourself. And you'll filter for/create what you believe, till you let it go.(Ie, BELIEF: people only like high energy people - outcome: so you'll ignore people that seem to be friends and not act friendly toward potential friends, etc)

 

I have noticed though, that when I do a bunch of energy work I become very open and magnetic.. like my boundaries are down and I'm openly having fun and enjoying myself as well as caring about people and the like.

 

It almost seems like my aura glows or something and people want to be around that. It's like when I feel really good, people feel good being around me.

 

Other times, I'm super charged up and the shit hits the fan majorly and I learn a lesson haha. Usually once the lesson is learned life goes back to being good. But the shit only hits the fan because I resist feeling or going through something. That it is a subjective thing all the way.

 

I'm a major fan of zhan zhuang (standing meditation) and practice for an 30 min to an 1 hour daily. It can be subtle, but seems to build jing/sexual/body energy. And also depends on what posture you hold.

 

Kundalini style stuff has a lot going on around this.. like I'd get a shaktipat and women would come out of the woodworks to talk sexual stuff with me.

 

Seth Ananda could probably speak to some of this, and Vajrisatva.

 

Bump to Lomax, he definitely would be one of the most experienced here to speak to on this too.

 

John

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What we are is always replete with endless energy, as part of the Big community!

 

Just my 2 kroner.

 

h

As always, hagar, your 2 kroner are worth at least a dollar!

:lol:

 

I just want to emphasize your last point because that's something I resonate with.

My own experience with meditation has led me to look at Qi in a much different way than I used to. And it goes against the grain of most in the community. I don't think it's a quantity of something. I don't think we can contain it within our bag of skin so to speak so that I own more and you own less. I think it is more an interaction of our awareness with the physical/energetic manifestations that exist within and around "us". Qi is already always there. Perhaps it is more or less concentrated here or there? Certainly this is always in flux. Can the bag of skin or energy body "contain" it? That is, restrict it's flow or dictate is presence, absence, and concentration?

 

So I just like to share that to me, Qi is something we can sensitize ourselves to but not contain or restrict. And perhaps as we are more sensitive to its presence, we are better able to manipulate it or its manifestations in some way [edit - or at least feel like we are]. And maybe I'm just doing reverse anal breathing (ie talking out of my ass) but I thought I'd put it out there...

 

Hilsener!

Edited by steve f

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A lot of maybes here... because there is a lot involved.

 

Psychology(beliefs, values, etc)/physiology (stored trauma, organ issues, body armor, etc)... so you may have high energy, but if you think that that is bad or people will make fun of you, you'll limit yourself. And you'll filter for/create what you believe, till you let it go.(Ie, BELIEF: people only like high energy people - outcome: so you'll ignore people that seem to be friends and not act friendly toward potential friends, etc)

 

I have noticed though, that when I do a bunch of energy work I become very open and magnetic.. like my boundaries are down and I'm openly having fun and enjoying myself as well as caring about people and the like.

 

It almost seems like my aura glows or something and people want to be around that. It's like when I feel really good, people feel good being around me.

 

Other times, I'm super charged up and the shit hits the fan majorly and I learn a lesson haha. Usually once the lesson is learned life goes back to being good. But the shit only hits the fan because I resist feeling or going through something. That it is a subjective thing all the way.

 

I'm a major fan of zhan zhuang (standing meditation) and practice for an 30 min to an 1 hour daily. It can be subtle, but seems to build jing/sexual/body energy. And also depends on what posture you hold.

 

Kundalini style stuff has a lot going on around this.. like I'd get a shaktipat and women would come out of the woodworks to talk sexual stuff with me.

 

Seth Ananda could probably speak to some of this, and Vajrisatva.

 

Bump to Lomax, he definitely would be one of the most experienced here to speak to on this too.

 

John

 

Kundalini style stuff has a lot going on around this.. like I'd get a shaktipat and women would come out of the woodworks to talk sexual stuff with me. what is a shaktipat? and where can I get one? lol

 

I'm a major fan of zhan zhuang (standing meditation) and practice for an 30 min to an 1 hour daily. It can be subtle, but seems to build jing/sexual/body energy. And also depends on what posture you hold I have tried ZZ, usually the majority of which was "hold the ball" at various positions, with a little wuji position at the beginning and end, but never felt energized from it. Actually I usually felt more tired after doing so, but I wonder if it had to do with my theory I stated previously that the hold the ball position actually uses up chi for chakra opening? What version of ZZ do you do?

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As always, hagar, your 2 kroner are worth at least a dollar!

:lol:

 

I just want to emphasize your last point because that's something I resonate with.

My own experience with meditation has led me to look at Qi in a much different way than I used to. And it goes against the grain of most in the community. I don't think it's a quantity of something. I don't think we can contain it within our bag of skin so to speak so that I own more and you own less. I think it is more an interaction of our awareness with the physical/energetic manifestations that exist within and around "us". Qi is already always there. Perhaps it is more or less concentrated here or there? Certainly this is always in flux. Can the bag of skin or energy body "contain" it? That is, restrict it's flow or dictate is presence, absence, and concentration?

 

So I just like to share that to me, Qi is something we can sensitize ourselves to but not contain or restrict. And perhaps as we are more sensitive to its presence, we are better able to manipulate it or its manifestations in some way [edit - or at least feel like we are]. And maybe I'm just doing reverse anal breathing (ie talking out of my ass) but I thought I'd put it out there...

 

Hilsener!

 

Hilsener tilbake! :D

 

Seems we're on to the same thing here. It seems like that is how it works.

 

We are not containers but conductors of energy. My teacher speaks about how we in the new born tate are quite whole, quite able to both contain and conduct energy with no interruption. There are no breaks or shadow in the body that hides or disrupts the body light and information. In the ideal state, man is an intermediary channel of heaven and earth energy; like a tree, or a stick figure.

It is quite difficult to get there, he says, due to the fact that we are like waning comets most of the time. Our light is dispersed, or our spirit is abit shattered everytime we inflict some trauma or reject or withold energy. So the light or spirit is more like the essential information. It is not dynamic like Qi, and not physical like Jing. It is like a laser or beam, and its effect and quality is instant. It is space, emptiness, and information at the same time.

 

Where the true or Yan qi is like a micro wave, and is also "primordial" in that it has no opposite, the light is felt with no intermission, it is there or not there, pure being, ever present light. We are just able or not able to infuse our bodily presence with it. Its a constant adjustment. But to the point where we are able to collect the light back into the physical body, we actually re-create life. It feels like we may prolong the basic life energy to live radically longer lives if we do this constantly.

 

h

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hi dmattwads!

 

if you don`t feel energized or even tired after your zhanh zhuang chi kung practice this may happen because you held a difficult posture too long. another reason might be that you don`t train regularly (every day). or - if you are a beginner in zz - the feeling of being tired is the result of the beginning process of detoxication of the body. and not to forget - the combination of the different postures/ exercises is important, too. i know from my own experience that there are some very powerful zz postures/ exercises. especially those which are based on standing on one leg only (or shifting the whole body weight on just one leg). and the combination of standing still exercises and moving exercises like walking chi kung for example is very energizing. another thing is to find out if you need more yin or more yang exercises. i need more yang energy - so i do more yang exercises (especially in winter). zz is a cool method of energy work which can produce amazing results (including more charisma)if you train daily for at least one hour and if you are in contact with a good zz chi kung teacher.

just some thoughts from a zz learner.

 

happy standing!

 

sirius

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Kundalini style stuff has a lot going on around this.. like I'd get a shaktipat and women would come out of the woodworks to talk sexual stuff with me. what is a shaktipat? and where can I get one? lol

 

I'm a major fan of zhan zhuang (standing meditation) and practice for an 30 min to an 1 hour daily. It can be subtle, but seems to build jing/sexual/body energy. And also depends on what posture you hold I have tried ZZ, usually the majority of which was "hold the ball" at various positions, with a little wuji position at the beginning and end, but never felt energized from it. Actually I usually felt more tired after doing so, but I wonder if it had to do with my theory I stated previously that the hold the ball position actually uses up chi for chakra opening? What version of ZZ do you do?

 

You can get a shaktipat from shakti mama, or Vajrisatva, or the KAP courses are good too. And Phore gives shaktipats for donations. And he's from the KAP group. I've received one from him. Quite literally had one from him, and my girlfriend got upset because girls would hit on me and not talk to her ;).

She's my love though, so had to do some soothing. :wub:

 

...not that you should be getting shaktipats so people will want to be around you haha. But interesting nonetheless.

 

I've been doing ZZ for about 2 years or so now, and when I first started I would practice, and at times suddenly feel exhausted. Like drop down take a nap exhausted. It seems to me that I was healing when that happened(chakras/organs?). I would wake up and feel great afterwards.

 

I generally did it around the heart, belly, and then the outward facing one at eye level.

 

When I do it around the belly I usually become really creative, and get lower dantien sensations and bliss.

 

I would also just jump straight into holding the ball and go for an hour. Sometimes while watching a movie or something.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/StandStillBeFit

 

 

John

Edited by JohnC

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That is a good question, and the reason is because when I began qigong I was in Fairbanks Alaska where there are no qigong schools at all. I would have loved to have gone to one, but there were none to be had.

 

* As a side note, the forms of qigong I have done/do are rather simple like the 8 brocades, inner smile/ healing sounds, which most instructors say are pretty safe ones to do on one's own.

I know of a good teacher in Anchorage but not Fairbanks.

 

I see no problem with you continuing the 8 brocade pieces. They are a mild form of physical exercise that shouldn't interfere with other qigong or neigong practice.

 

My point is for you to find a teacher if you really want to learn this. If you are planning on finishing the TCM program and becoming a practitioner I highly suggest you learn medical qigong. You could do this concurrent with your existing TCM training.

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Something :wub: hit me upon reading your words... :)

 

:lol:

 

Funny how things work. Probably due to my frequent typos.

 

h

Edited by hagar

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Hi dmattwads,

 

This is kind of strange. Do you practice everyday? (sorry if you have already answered this, I may have missed it).

 

eg: My mother is 67 years, she was tired ,depressive, did not sleep well etc..I made her changed her bed position to a favorable location (fengshui)and she has been doing zz for 4 weeks everyday, only 10mn (too hard for her to do more)and a self-massage. She feels so much better now, more energetic, don't feel tired anymore, depression symptoms has gone after two weeks ...

 

take care,

millet

 

Also for all I've heard about standing meditation (been doing about 20 min a day) I have never felt the energy boost that is supposed to come from it. :-/.

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Hi dmattwads,

 

This is kind of strange. Do you practice everyday? (sorry if you have already answered this, I may have missed it).

 

eg: My mother is 67 years, she was tired ,depressive, did not sleep well etc..I made her changed her bed position to a favorable location (fengshui)and she has been doing zz for 4 weeks everyday, only 10mn (too hard for her to do more)and a self-massage. She feels so much better now, more energetic, don't feel tired anymore, depression symptoms has gone after two weeks ...

 

take care,

millet

 

Yes I practice everyday. The only time I miss is when I am feeling too tired to do so, but that is not very often. The ironic thing is , is what usually makes me tired is after I've done ZZ consistently for a while :-Z.

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This is really weird.

I don't know where you live but if I were you I would travel to CA. Lam Kam Chuen has just moved to the CA (not good news for me I am in Europe :( and there are already so many masters in the US!)

If you're not too far way just make an appointment:

http://www.lamassociation.org/contactUSA.htm

He will help you

 

millet

 

Yes I practice everyday. The only time I miss is when I am feeling too tired to do so, but that is not very often. The ironic thing is , is what usually makes me tired is after I've done ZZ consistently for a while :-Z.

Edited by millet

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Yea I don't know either, one can not say that I have not given ZZ a good chance, as I've done it consistently for over a year now. Therefore I think I'm going to try the Yi Jin Jing form as taught by Dr. Yang for a while and see how that works for me. Dr. Yang says in both "Qigong for health and martial arts" and "Qigong the secret of youth" that the 12 form set of Yi Jin Jing builds a lot of Qi. If this is the case then that is definitely what I need to be doing. Dr. Yang also says in his book that the 12 forms of Yi Jin Jing were created by DaMo after he arrived at the Shaolin temple and saw all the monks were weak (kind of like me lol), and specifically made this form to remedy that. If that is the case then it sounds exactly like what I need. Has anyone had experience doing the 12 form Yi Jin Jing as taught by Dr. Yang?

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Kundalini style stuff has a lot going on around this.. like I'd get a shaktipat and women would come out of the woodworks to talk sexual stuff with me.

I suspect that this is not really about "shaktipat" (what even is that ;) ), but is a result of what exactly was transmitted and how your energy body processed what was received.

 

If someone sends you orgasmic/blissful energy to your lower chakras and your energy body expresses that by putting it "out in the open", of course women will be sexually interested in you.

 

There are other kinds of shaktipat though, and other potential expressions of it in the receivers body.

Edited by Creation

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