Laughing at suffering

[Inedible]

And yet, I continue to participate, and I'm not sure why.

 

26. other fish to fry, other matters requiring attention: When it was time to act, they had other fish to fry.

 

As long as there is a certain amusement value left you will stay? That's why I do, anyway. Eventually, though, we will both have other fish to fry.

[Marblehead]

As long as there is a certain amusement value left you will stay? That's why I do, anyway. Eventually, though, we will both have other fish to fry.

 

Well, just as long as you guys aren't thinking about frying any of my fish.

 

It is true though that forum discussions are not the same as face-to-face discussions. But it would be impossible to get us all together physically in one place so we do the best we can with what we have.

 

Many discussions include the idealistic (unrealistic) concepts taught by various religions. Sure, it would be nice if everyone loved everyone else and we always did whatever we could to help any other human in times of need. But that's idealistic.

 

I think that nearly all, if not all, Buddhists would help someone or some animal in need if they had the ability to do so. I just can't imagine that a follower of a religion that preaches love would just sit by and watch some man rape a 7 year old girl.

 

We really should keep our discussions of the real world associated with the real world. The world of nothingness is at a different level.

 

Peace & Love!

[Aetherous]

Making sweeping and perjorative generalizations about those who practice a particular path is on the same intellectual level as racism and sexism and other forms of discrimination, the stupid smileyfaces notwithstanding. I'm not saying the gravity of the hatred and stupidity is the same, but the thought process certainly is.

 

Okay...some Buddhists are honest with themselves, and some have realization.

 

I shouldn't have called those who parrot the teachings ignorantly, Buddhists. That disrespects the actual tradition, when really I am only intending to disrespect their misguidedness.

 

And there is no hatred, or ignorance (about this issue) on my part. It is an attempt to help people snap out of it.

 

Peace.

[gendao]

That is a good point. But, a couple things...

 

We aren't animals. It's human nature to recognize suffering in another (even in a fish), and want it to end for them. If someone doesn't have that, then they probably have some sort of psychiatric condition.

 

Not saying CowTao does...I think he's just misguided about what spirituality and philosophy is all about...

 

People who are overly conceptual will ignore their own instincts, just because of the idea, "nature is cruel." Especially when combined with nihilistic/pseudo-spiritual ideas.

 

Funny how that makes them less human, and less animal.

 

Oh well, all it takes is a dose of reality to snap them out of it.

 

Something else about nature: when animals kill they usually tend to do it in a way that doesn't torture the prey. They will snap the neck or something. It's about survival for them, not about some trendy form of dining out, where you keep the prey alive so it can witness itself being consumed and laughed at. Sure it isn't an instant death for the prey being killed in the wild, but I still think it's better than what was shown in the video!

 

Peace.

I don't find the live fried fish funny, nor is it something that I would personally do. Nor was I trying to justify it.

 

However, the point does remain that humans ARE animals and Nature CAN be very "cruel." Most predators maim or kill its prey just enough so that it won't get away before they can consume it. Not out of any "compassion."

 

And here's an even more ruthless example.

Braconid wasp. The female wasp lays her eggs inside the body of the hornworm. When they hatch the wasp larvae eat the hornworm from the inside out. When the wasp larvae are ready to pupate into adults, they emerge from the hornworm's body and spin these silken cocoons. The Braconid wasps will soon emerge from these cocoons as adults. The hornworn may still be capable of limited movement, but it's innards have been consumed by the wasp larvae and it will soon die.

IOW, this wasp has evolved to oviposit its eggs into this caterpillar, which then hatch and eat their way out (obviously, killing their host). Now if this is not cruel, then I don't know what is. Yet, this is the very survival strategy this species exclusively uses (not a random choice by "rogue" wasps). Edited November 19, 2009 by vortex

[Aetherous]

I don't find the live fried fish funny, nor is it something that I would personally do. Nor was I trying to justify it.

 

Whoops...I didn't mean to argue with you or imply those things about you, vortex! I think you're a great person. I was just putting thoughts out there.

[C T]

Okay...some Buddhists are honest with themselves, and some have realization.

 

I shouldn't have called those who parrot the teachings ignorantly, Buddhists. That disrespects the actual tradition, when really I am only intending to disrespect their misguidedness.

 

And there is no hatred, or ignorance (about this issue) on my part. It is an attempt to help people snap out of it.

 

Peace.

Well spoken! Words that 'build' bridges of understanding..

 

It takes honesty, courage and integrity to admit to oversight. Rare qualities indeed.

[gendao]

Whoops...I didn't mean to argue with you or imply those things about you, vortex! I think you're a great person. I was just putting thoughts out there.

Ha np buddy! Wasn't offended even if you did - but just wanted to clarify my opinion here.

[orb]

I don't find the live fried fish funny, nor is it something that I would personally do. Nor was I trying to justify it.

 

However, the point does remain that humans ARE animals and Nature CAN be very "cruel." Most predators maim or kill its prey just enough so that it won't get away before they can consume it. Not out of any "compassion."

 

And here's an even more ruthless example.

IOW, this wasp has evolved to oviposit its eggs into this caterpillar, which then hatch and eat their way out (obviously, killing their host). Now if this is not cruel, then I don't know what is. Yet, this is the very survival strategy this species exclusively uses.

 

 

To me these are two totally different things. Animals don't really have a choice they just follow what they have been doing for generations. The wasp has been doing that for thousands of years and its doing it in order to take care of the future generation - that's not the same type of "cruelty" - that's more "the law of the jungle"

Humans on the other hand are supposed to be smarter then that. If you see suffering and you can do smth to stop it (for example they can choose not to participate in that kind of dinner situation or they can just kill the fish to stop the suffering) - instead you see adults looking at suffering and laughing like crazy, no compassion, no respect for life whatsoever - that's an example of people without a heart -that's sad

[Zenshiite]

To me these are two totally different things. Animals don't really have a choice they just follow what they have been doing for generations. The wasp has been doing that for thousands of years and its doing it in order to take care of the future generation - that's not the same type of "cruelty" - that's more "the law of the jungle"

Humans on the other hand are supposed to be smarter then that. If you see suffering and you can do smth to stop it (for example they can choose not to participate in that kind of dinner situation or they can just kill the fish to stop the suffering) - instead you see adults looking at suffering and laughing like crazy, no compassion, no respect for life whatsoever - that's an example of people without a heart -that's sad

 

QFT.

 

Two totally different phenomena there.

[rain]

I don't find the live fried fish funny, nor is it something that I would personally do. Nor was I trying to justify it.

 

However, the point does remain that humans ARE animals and Nature CAN be very "cruel." Most predators maim or kill its prey just enough so that it won't get away before they can consume it. Not out of any "compassion."

 

And here's an even more ruthless example.

IOW, this wasp has evolved to oviposit its eggs into this caterpillar, which then hatch and eat their way out (obviously, killing their host). Now if this is not cruel, then I don't know what is. Yet, this is the very survival strategy this species exclusively uses (not a random choice by "rogue" wasps).

 

 

perhaps the greates thread.

 

wow. we use the words but what exactly is compassion?

[C T]

As long as there is a certain amusement value left you will stay? That's why I do, anyway. Eventually, though, we will both have other fish to fry.

Wow, after being scripturally admonished by 'your eminence' a few posts back, i thought you were "straight" as an arrow, on the verge of arhatship, but to my amazement, now you openly declare that you participate in such serious discussions with an attitude of self-amusement! I truly hope your need for an 'amusing' fix has been met with some degree of satisfaction here.

Edited November 20, 2009 by CowTao

[Inedible]

Actually, I did go through a strict Buddhist phase before I started meeting Buddhists and they kept disappointing me. The group that met closest to where I live was just depressing.

 

Here's the one series of books that has most helped me to understand (at least one version of) both enlightenment and growing up as a healthy adult:

 

http://www.wisefoolpress.com/

[gendao]

Terrible, Yes they are stupid & deluded people.

 

This video & the even worse chinese fur trade video make me sick & furious.

Don't forget about ground beef (most likely a mad cow from the UK)...

[Inedible]

Wow, after being scripturally admonished by 'your eminence' a few posts back, i thought you were "straight" as an arrow, on the verge of arhatship, but to my amazement, now you openly declare that you participate in such serious discussions with an attitude of self-amusement! I truly hope your need for an 'amusing' fix has been met with some degree of satisfaction here.

 

Isn't this an improvement?

 

I find it hard to believe that I first came to Tao Bums thinking I was going to learn a lot here about actual practice.

[rex]

perhaps the greates thread.

 

wow. we use the words but what exactly is compassion?

 

It's certainly an eye opener.

 

Compassion is the wish that all beings are free from suffering and the causes of suffering - it has aspirational and actional aspects.

[C T]

Actually, I did go through a strict Buddhist phase before I started meeting Buddhists and they kept disappointing me. The group that met closest to where I live was just depressing.

 

Here's the one series of books that has most helped me to understand (at least one version of) both enlightenment and growing up as a healthy adult:

 

http://www.wisefoolpress.com/

Without seeing deeply into the true nature of your own mind, even if you met the Buddha or Chuang Tzu, you will be depressed and disappointed.

 

When you have trained and stabilized in knowing what Mind is, even if you met the most evil person, or experience the most dire circumstance, depression and disappointment will be absent from your stream of being.

 

 

 

I believe Jed McKenna speaks of similar things. Glad he gave you a helpful grounding, but try not to mistake the finger for the moon.

Edited November 20, 2009 by CowTao

[mantis]

Do not be dismayed, my friends...

 

That great fish, though suffering great physical distress, is actually a Boddhisattva Mahasattva,

transformed into a fish, to show us the futility of ignorance, and to plant the seeds of Compassion

in our mindstreams. Thus are we blessed, thru opening our eyes to the wisdom of Dharma.

 

These poor folks giggling and laughing here are in a daze of delusion, unable to free themselves

from the jaws of stupidity and heartlessness due to confusion. Please remember them in your prayers,

that they too, will someday be touched by Avalokiteshvara, and become Boddhisattvas themselves,

with the instant and choiceless capacity to sacrifice themselves for others, without resistance

nor hesitation, just like this 'fish' here.

 

Om Namo Amitabha. Om Mani Peme Hung.

 

Peace be in your hearts, and in the hearts of those you cherish.

 

Holy Shit, if it wasn't almost 6 am here I would have died laughing read this.

[C T]

Holy Shit, if it wasn't almost 6 am here I would have died laughing read this.

That's strange.. these were almost the exact same words some guy i knew used when he was told the Twin Towers were being attacked. Well, i suppose it takes all kinds..

 

ps - the essence of your mentality is the same essence as the mentality of those diners featured in the video.

Edited November 20, 2009 by CowTao

[SingaporeGuyHere]

thank goodness i got no-script running

 

the header scared me away !

[C T]

perhaps the greates thread.

 

wow. we use the words but what exactly is compassion?

 

To me, compassion means the quality which surfaces from within one's being when all gross and subtle defilements that is associated with apathy, cynicism, envy and greed has been removed from the individual and collective mindstream.

 

On a relative level, any act of kindness where the 'self' is absent may also be regarded as acts of true compassion.

Edited November 20, 2009 by CowTao

[mantis]

That's strange.. these were almost the exact same words some guy i knew used when he was told the Twin Towers were being attacked. Well, i suppose it takes all kinds..

 

ps - the essence of your mentality is the same essence as the mentality of those diners featured in the video.

 

Yeah I'm sorry, maybe I should start doing prostrations in front of the food I eat, LOL.

[C T]

Yeah I'm sorry, maybe I should start doing prostrations in front of the food I eat, LOL.

There's enough hypocrites in the world as it is. Not sure if another one's needed.. but if it was, i am sure you are well qualified.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

That's strange.. these were almost the exact same words some guy i knew used when he was told the Twin Towers were being attacked. Well, i suppose it takes all kinds..

 

ps - the essence of your mentality is the same essence as the mentality of those diners featured in the video.

 

That's an odd comeback. I don't think it makes any sense to correlate the two, TaoCow.

[Inedible]

Without seeing deeply into the true nature of your own mind, even if you met the Buddha or Chuang Tzu, you will be depressed and disappointed.

 

When you have trained and stabilized in knowing what Mind is, even if you met the most evil person, or experience the most dire circumstance, depression and disappointment will be absent from your stream of being.

I believe Jed McKenna speaks of similar things. Glad he gave you a helpful grounding, but try not to mistake the finger for the moon.

 

If this is advice, your method of delivery needs work.

[Encephalon]

This thread causes suffering. Please kill it.