Jump to content


Photo

Ttc 56 - Talk or not?


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#17 Starjumper

Starjumper

    Black Dragon

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 1616 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern Ecuador Wilderness
  • Interests:Nei Kung, permaculture farming

Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:02 PM

I don't know if the guide when I first picked up these exercises was someone else or if it was resonance from a different time when I would learn them formally.

 

 

Please clarify, by guide you mean a previous teacher you were remembering/seeing, or guidance from an entity appearing on your mind's screen?  My chi kung buddy who I used to practice with experienced the later.


  • Apeiron&Peiron said thanks for this

#18 Starjumper

Starjumper

    Black Dragon

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 1616 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern Ecuador Wilderness
  • Interests:Nei Kung, permaculture farming

Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:40 PM

OK, I'll answer my question about how does the sage teach without speaking, and I speak from experience.  

 

The sage doesn't teach blah blah, obviously, they teach nei kung!  What else?  Nei kung is the Way!

 

During out nei kung classes there was NO speaking, neither by the teacher nor the students.  The goal was to watch him like a hawk and then imitate the movements exactly, and as one master told me: "only a master will attempt an exact imitation of another", apparently the others don't care about exact imitations, I guess they don't see the value in it or something.  I noticed this in a Saturday morning chi kung class I went to once near the university,  The teacher had quite a few university students, some new and some older ones, and not one of them was doing exactly what he was doing, they were doing vague imitations, kind of what they felt like doing.  I was really embarrassed for the teacher and thought it was a big insult to him.

 

But I digress, getting back to the not speaking.  Each relatively complex movements or exercises that the sage teaches, and there were many, had many aspects to it.  Each one included strengthening, stretching, energy work, and meditation, and it is the job of the serious student to explore all of these facets extensively in order to figure out:  In what way is this strengthening me?  How can I use it and it's variations for stretching?  Based on intent and feeling the energy, what are the many ways that it is running and or creating energy?  and it's all mediation.  This is how you can create a master.

 

As an example, some teachers will tell you how a certain exercise may be moving energy or how it is creating energy, but a lot of movements have several aspects and several ways of moving energy at the same time, depending on which one you focus on.  So the problem is that when the teacher tells the student about one way, one thing to look for, that they will focus on that one thing and the other twenty ways won't occur to them, they will miss them forever probably.  If you really got into detail you could talk about one movement for hours and still not cover all the bases.  In fact no explanation or knowing of these things is needed and the movement will do the work in all it's wondrous ways with no mentating required!

 

Now, we know of some teachers, like a popular plagiaristic book author who has a resort in Thailand, who became rich by writing books about sex, who teaches weekend seminars in which 95+% of the time he's flapping his jaw about a couple of terribly simplistic, essentially useless, exercises, and the rest of the -5% of the time the students do said essentially useless exercises.

 

So, you spend two days learning essentially nothing in the way of serious cultivation exercises, while on the other hand, the sage who teaches without speaking can impart, in a couple of hours, many movements which combined contain hundreds of valuable techniques.  Of course you have to go back the next and the next and the next week in order to be able to remember all that.  It's also a lot cheaper, you can go to classes taught by a sage for months for the price of one weekend seminar.

 

So there's also this:  The sage teaches without seminars  =)


Edited by Starjumper, 18 March 2017 - 06:16 PM.

  • cheya, dawei, Antares and 1 other said thanks

#19 Apeiron&Peiron

Apeiron&Peiron

    Clueless

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 1400 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 March 2017 - 07:39 PM

Please clarify, by guide you mean a previous teacher you were remembering/seeing, or guidance from an entity appearing on your mind's screen? My chi kung buddy who I used to practice with experienced the later.

It's a bit of a complicated story. I was 14 at the time and in the (then) recent past I had seen The Last Samurai. I thought that meditation would be a cool thing to try, so I would sit during the night. I had been doing calisthenics so meditation was a sort of continuation.

Anyways, I'd get little nudges (psychological and somatic) to adjust things or do things. With exactly no knowledge of yoga or qigong, I had shifted into sitting in full lotus, orbiting energy in the ren and du channels and even incorporating eye movements. Basically, I had started doing the exercises from Charles Luk's Taoist Yoga (with a few other things thrown in).

Apparently that's rather peculiar since I have heard of nothing similar from anyone else

Edited by Apeiron&Peiron, 18 March 2017 - 07:42 PM.

  • Starjumper said thanks for this
"The art of progress is to preserve order amid change and to preserve change amid order"
 
-A.N. Whitehead

#20 Starjumper

Starjumper

    Black Dragon

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 1616 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern Ecuador Wilderness
  • Interests:Nei Kung, permaculture farming

Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:09 PM

Amazing things can happen when a person starts meditating at a young age, congratulations on starting early and I hope you stick with it.  The immortal Babaji started around the age of six and became enlightened around the age of 12 I think.  A few years after that he became an immortal.  Babaji was lucky to have the guidance of a powerful Siddha wizard in Ceylon.

 

I was curious about what your guide was like because my chi kung buddy would see a shadow figure on the screen of his closed eyes.  This figure would do chi kung movements and he would follow them, and I would follow him; then the next week I would lead and he would follow.  We learned a lot that way.


Edited by Starjumper, 19 March 2017 - 12:10 PM.

  • silent thunder and Apeiron&Peiron said thanks for this

#21 silent thunder

silent thunder

    Oneironaut

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 3144 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Bay, California
  • Interests:Rain, Nature, Qi Gong, Nei Gong, Meditation, Kung Fu, Camping, Photography, Sacred Geometry, Lucid Dreaming, OBE's, Solfeggio Harmonics, Cymatics, Humorous Stuff...

Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:50 PM

when so much is stated without words

are words required?


Not one raindrop has ever fallen in the wrong spot... there are no accidents.

Everything I Love and Everything I Hate come from the Same Source.

I don't believe everything I think.

stop glorifying busy


#22 Marblehead

Marblehead

    The Wondering Taoist

  • Steward+
  • Pip
  • 36523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida, USA
  • Interests:Short Skirts and Bikinis

Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:48 AM

when so much is stated without words

are words required?

 

Sometimes words are not required in real, one on one, communications.  Here on the forum all we have is words.


  • Mig said thanks for this

I reserve the right to be wrong.

YIN-YANG.jpg I reserve the right to change my mind. Anarchy4.jpg



Peace & Contentment!


#23 Starjumper

Starjumper

    Black Dragon

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 1616 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern Ecuador Wilderness
  • Interests:Nei Kung, permaculture farming

Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:36 AM

There's another aspect that occurred to me just now.  Not all wizards are sages, but all sages are wizards, and they would be able to use telepathy (which can be a wordless communication of a picture/concept, or a message with words) silently with their students.


Edited by Starjumper, 20 March 2017 - 06:52 AM.

  • Marblehead said thanks for this

#24 Wu Ming Jen

Wu Ming Jen

    Human No Name

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 759 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Between Heaven and Earth

Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:17 AM

The wordless teaching is necessary for a topic that is beyond speech and conceptual mind to comprehend.

 

Using the mode of mind that does not require speech or thoughts (thoughts are in word form) to penetrate the mystery.

 

The shining mind or original mind sometimes in the form of wisdom, intuition, feeling, awareness of just what is, is used daily by all.

 

the communication of body and mind is feeling this function does not require words for the miracle of body to function.

 

The universe does not require words for the planets to stay in their orbits.

 

I bet we could come up with ten thousand things that do not require speech. 

 

Silence is the absolute balance of body mind and spirit. Silence is the cornerstone of character.

 

Transmission of true awareness from silence will lead to correct action.

 

Try not to let the thinking mind filled with endless words get in the way.


  • cheya and Marblehead said thanks for this

#25 Mig

Mig

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 130 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:39 PM

Sometimes words are not required in real, one on one, communications.  Here on the forum all we have is words.

Interesting. My cats understand some words, at least that's what I think as they react to some of my words or the tone of my voice. What I found interesting is that most of the time they talk by positioning themselves wherever I am in the house. No noise, no nothing and I am starting to understand they talk in silence. I guess this silence was one of our lost abilities to live in nature.


  • Marblehead, Wu Ming Jen and silent thunder said thanks for this

#26 sagebrush

sagebrush

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 380 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:47 PM

there in lies the key---

 

"try not let the thinking mind filled with endless words get in the way....."

 

now REALLY think that through from a POV.

 

some homeopathy in kind.

 

I can be a real bitch sometimes. today not so much. enjoyed the great out of doors.

 

I have a song in the PPD file.


  • Wu Ming Jen said thanks for this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users