Who is a Christian here and believes in JESUS CHRIST?

[Hugo_M]

Thanks again Hugo! I appreciate it.

 

Xuesheng - I hear ya mate. There's so much more I would like to say, in agreement, but it would likely just piss people off. It would take a lot to get me back into organized religion of any sort. I'll study the teachings and do the practice, but I'm no longer going to be "religious". Those of us here understand that, I think. I'll go sit with the yogis.

 

THANKS FRIEND Bruce

 

PS. if you want a book that speak in deep about the God of my Church, please read if possible this book:

 

The Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B. H. Roberts

 

i had not read it myself but going to do very soon what do i see inside and comments from others friends, this book seems very, very good!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Doctrine-Deit...9223&sr=1-1

 

good night

Edited February 21, 2009 by HugoOlivaresMila

[gendao]

So, does anyone believe that the negative image on the Shroud of Turin was formed by Jesus (or some other adept) possibly when they attained their immortal light body?

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And perhaps it was this light body that was later seen as proof of his resurrection?

 

If so, then I wonder why he taught people only to accept him for ascension, rather than actual internal alchemy methods? Is he like a 9th Taoist immortal that will simply do all the work and awaken your spirit for you if you allow him to?

 

 

 

BTW - In this series, it's claimed that Jesus was initially was depicted as a young, clean-shaven guy with a bowl-cut...until the 'Mandilian' of Edessa showed up in ~300 AD - his purported burial cloth. From which came the current long-haired "hippy" image.

Edited February 23, 2009 by vortex

[Aetherous]

I remember seeing a program on History channel or something, where they tested some of the shroud and it ended up being a forgery.

[gendao]

I remember seeing a program on History channel or something, where they tested some of the shroud and it ended up being a forgery.

Well, they did some carbon-14 dating on just one tiny section, which dated back to only 13th century medieval times.

 

However, the fact that the cloth had been bleached, partially burned and they broke many protocols in the testing - makes it inconclusive to me.

 

This video has some more pretty interesting evidence though - including IDing some coins placed over his eyes...back to, the alleged time of Christ.

Rqp0aCslChA

[Aetherous]

However, the fact that the cloth had been bleached, partially burned and they broke many protocols in the testing - makes it inconclusive to me.

 

Ah, good point.

[h.uriahr]

Well, they did some carbon-14 dating on just one tiny section, which dated back to only 13th century medieval times.

 

However, the fact that the cloth had been bleached, partially burned and they broke many protocols in the testing - makes it inconclusive to me.

 

This video has some more pretty interesting evidence though - including IDing some coins placed over his eyes...back to, the alleged time of Christ.

Rqp0aCslChA

 

That video is really interesting.

[Wayfarer64]

My friend it seems you don't have read: The Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith? There is a lot about Jesus Christ way and path and is very much differnet book than what we know today as the Bible! The Bible is not what is was original!

 

 

PS. i hope you read the book of Mormon then we can start a thread about the book if you want, i would be in that thread all the time, because is about my most favorite book

 

Regards

 

Jesus Christ live is my testimony i know thanks to the Holy Spirit

 

 

 

I don't have read?

Funny typo!

Anyway, I avoided this issue on purpose so as not to cause more dis-harmony. I re-read the book of Mormon just last year and found it beyond belief...Hysterical in fact. I could not bring myself to see much truth therein - And I really really tried... The actual first time that a book of faith held no truth -beyond a sort of bromide-ridden truthyness that may pass as wisdom somewhere ...I actually think Smith wrote it as a prank to prove how gullible people can be... You asked -thats my take...

 

I suggest that you read a few of the Buddhist sutras as a way to look past such wierd religiosity and find some actual linkage to spirituality... But if YOU do find some truth in the Book of Mormon... be there -stay with it - what ever actually brings us to the realization that we have a spark of devinity within us is good... We each will find our own way eventually-

[CarsonZi]

I too have avoided talking about The Book of Mormon in this thread because of my personal opinions on it, but since Wayfarer has already said most of what I would have said, I would like to take a few seconds to comment as well....

 

My wife and her entire family is devout Mormon. I have read the book front to back 3 times. I find what is written in this book to be pure manipulation of the basic human need for answers. Joseph Smith I believe had ideas of where he wanted to take his "religion" and I believe that the direction he wanted to head is where the Mormon church has ended up. Very different from what Christianity has become compared to how I think Jesus would have liked it presented. I think Joseph Smith would be very proud and Jesus would be mortified to see the states of their respective religions. I personally think (having had pretty extensive experience with Mormons and in the Mormon church) that Joseph Smith was trying to create a male dominated "sex" religion. The Mormon religion seems very much centred on creating an environment in which women are subordinate to their men, sex is not sacred between husband and wife (as the men are allowed many wives) and women are treated as though their main purpose is to serve and obey their husbands. (not to mention procreate like rabbits in order to create large Mormon families with plenty of converts and missionaries available) Women are only capable of reaching a certain "level" of heaven and in order to get to that point they have to be completely obedient to their husband's every demand, and have to pretty much bend over backwards in some pretty ridiculous and demeaning ways (IMO). The men on the other hand "thrive" on the hypocracy of it all, and take advantage of the women in the religion in every way imaginable. I am not saying that this is the way it is for EVERY Mormon, but from my personal experience this seems to be very prevalent (and encouraged) in their church. In my opinion Mormonism is the definition of a cult, not a religion.

Hope this doesn't offend anyone too much. After all this is just my opinion, and is stated as such. (Everyone's entitled to their opinions right?)

 

Love,

Carson

Edited February 23, 2009 by CarsonZi

[Wayfarer64]

I too have avoided talking about The Book of Mormon in this thread because of my personal opinions on it, but since Wayfarer has already said most of what I would have said, I would like to take a few seconds to comment as well....

 

My wife and her entire family is devout Mormon. I have read the book front to back 3 times. I find what is written in this book to be pure manipulation of the basic human need for answers. Joseph Smith I believe had ideas of where he wanted to take his "religion" and I believe that the direction he wanted to head is where the Mormon church has ended up. Very different from what Christianity has become compared to how I think Jesus would have liked it presented. I think Joseph Smith would be very proud and Jesus would be mortified to see the states of their respective religions. I personally think (having had pretty extensive experience with Mormons and in the Mormon church) that Joseph Smith was trying to create a male dominated "sex" religion. The Mormon religion seems very much centred on creating an environment in which women are subordinate to their men, sex is not sacred between husband and wife (as the men are allowed many wives) and women are treated as though their main purpose is to serve and obey their husbands. (not to mention procreate like rabbits in order to create large Mormon families with plenty of converts and missionaries available) Women are only capable of reaching a certain "level" of heaven and in order to get to that point they have to be completely obedient to their husband's every demand, and have to pretty much bend over backwards in some pretty ridiculous and demeaning ways (IMO). The men on the other hand "thrive" on the hypocracy of it all, and take advantage of the women in the religion in every way imaginable. I am not saying that this is the way it is for EVERY Mormon, but from my personal experience this seems to be very prevalent in their church. In my opinion Mormonism is the definition of a cult, not a religion.

Hope this doesn't offend anyone too much. After all this is just my opinion, and is stated as such. (Everyone's entitled to their opinions right?)

 

Love,

Carson

 

Thanks Carson- When I reread the book last year it was at the behest of two female Mormons who came round the store where I worked - I spoke at length with them about many religious ideas in an effort to broaden their knowledge and they seemed to be quite receptive...

 

They actually seemed to be using their time in New Jersey to get to know the wider world around them as much as share the book with others - so there is hope for them at least to move into a larger role in the world...

But they were "shocked" that I had met a Mormon who let his kids play in the ocean ... when I related to them that I had met a few Mormons in Atlantic City... they seemed very prudish in a funny way about coffee and food etc... Very contrained and of course -thus curious!

 

 

I must say I am Mormon-curious -it just seems so odd a system to me...-

 

Love to all-Pat

[Aetherous]

Mormons aren't supposed to play in the ocean?

[Hugo_M]

.....if YOU do find some truth in the Book of Mormon... be there -stay with it

 

i found truth in the book of mormon every time i read it!

 

Thanks and regards

[Seth Ananda]

Anyone heard of the Ishayas?

 

Supposedly, it refers to a de-stressing, New Agey ascension technique (for enlightenment & better health) founded by the Apostle John with some Eastern influences...Towards the end of this audio, there's a really cool clip where chirping crickets are slowed down and it sounds like chanting.

Hi Vortex

I meditated with the Ishayas about 12 years ago, and still often use their first Sphere meditation as a begining to my practices. Its great.

I wouldnt know about the founders claims to authenticity but the people are sincere and i met some of the lovelyest people i have met. Clear, radiant, peacefull and with deep shining eyes. I was impressed.

 

The crickets are great arnt they...

 

Seth.

[Wayfarer64]

Mormons aren't supposed to play in the ocean?

 

 

That is what I was told. But maybe H.O.M. has the full reasoning behind why that activity ist proscribed...

 

I know that many Mormons own boats and go out onto great salt lake - but must do so as a practice for the great flood that is supposed to come in the future- to boat for pleasure is also proscribed...

Edited February 25, 2009 by Wayfarer64

[宁]

I tell you, the teachings of Jesus Christ can be really diabolical

 

In the sense that, in a world full of belief systems and practices that enchain and destroy people's lives and souls (occult, witchcraft, do-it-yourself energy practices etc), Christianity may very well be the single safest and most nurturing belief system there is.

 

i know Safe and Nurturing doesn't sound like much... well you should visit an Asylum for a change of viewpoint... many seekers end up there.

 

Christianity can be, and still is, an oasis of peace and tranquillity, in a desert of hungry desperados.

 

You can take that to the bank, i thi-ink

 

Re-think it through

[xenolith]

Christians are the comfortably numb.

 

The Christ-like are the painfully aware.

[Wayfarer64]

I have just found "American Prophet a video about the life of J. Smith -narrated by Mr. Gregory Peck no less! will report back after viewing...

 

ITs now the 27th- I've seen the movie and spoken with a dear friend who is Mormon for several years now- both she and her husband - an inter-racial couple that took some flak at first but now she says she is very happy with the help her Mormon friends offer her.

 

 

It is certainly not for me but there is a great story to Mormonism and a deep Americanism that both scares me and offers a sense of patriotism I seldom accept as a good thing..But may well be good?!

 

In any case it is a growing concern as they say...

Edited February 27, 2009 by Wayfarer64

[Prince...]

Anyone a Christian here and If you are how do you see Tao against your Faith?

 

Ape

 

I am a Christian. I recall a thread from last summer about the Tao vs. God. There was a post that made me laugh saying "Well, the Judeo-Christian idea of God is like this... but Tao is like this..." and I'm saying,"Oh really?" in my head because the whole "but Tao is like this..." comment is the way I think of God.

 

I read most of the posts here and I have to say one thing...Can us Christians have Jesus for who he is and not what everyone else wants him to be? Jesus is NOT a great mystic, a good teacher, a neigong master, or a bodhisattva. If Jesus were any of things HE WOULD HAVE SAID SO.

 

When Jesus was asked by the Pharisees as to who he is, his response was "Eyeh asher eyeh, Beni Alaha."

(I am that I am, the Son of God)

 

Jesus, the man who lived, was crucified, resurrected and ascended, was a perfect manifestation of the Logos (The Word). He came as a God-Man to show that by cultivating the Holy Spirit which exists in all of us, we can share in his divinity as Man-gods. This is what he means by he is the way, the Truth, and the Life.

 

These teachings were part of early Christianity and still exist today, but not as part of the mainstream Faith. In the Nestorian Church, monks who helped translate many Buddhist texts observed that their practices did not differ at all from Buddhist monks.

[xenolith]

Jesus is NOT a...bodhisattva. If Jesus were...HE WOULD HAVE SAID SO.

 

Jesus was a Bodhisattva on the basis of the content of his actions, his Loving of others...fact...whether he knew the word Bodhisattva is a rabbit hole. The particulars of the Bible are highly suspect...don't make me discuss the Council of Nicea (in fact, I won't), but the general theme of Jesus' Life is clear, he was about Love. His claim of Son of God was his way of trying to make more comprehensible to the phenomenally misguided naturalistic and idolistic believers of the near middle east of his day the surprisingly incomprehensible (not to those reading this post...but very much so to those poor misguided people that Jesus wanted to inform about the God that he understood) concept that Love is God and that we are all the components of God when we Love...supposition...but supported by the facts as best as I can discern them.

 

But I could be wrong

Edited March 5, 2009 by xenolith

[gendao]

Jesus is NOT a great mystic, a good teacher, a neigong master, or a bodhisattva. If Jesus were any of things HE WOULD HAVE SAID SO.

 

When Jesus was asked by the Pharisees as to who he is, his response was "Eyeh asher eyeh, Beni Alaha."

(I am that I am, the Son of God)

 

Jesus, the man who lived, was crucified, resurrected and ascended, was a perfect manifestation of the Logos (The Word). He came as a God-Man to show that by cultivating the Holy Spirit which exists in all of us, we can share in his divinity as Man-gods. This is what he means by he is the way, the Truth, and the Life.

 

These teachings were part of early Christianity and still exist today, but not as part of the mainstream Faith. In the Nestorian Church, monks who helped translate many Buddhist texts observed that their practices did not differ at all from Buddhist monks.

Are his disciples, much less you, really sure what he said?

Throughout the Gospels we see that the disciples of Jesus consistently misunderstood his speaking of higher spiritual matters.

 

As a priest of the Saint Thomas Christian Church of South India once commented to me: "You cannot understand the teachings of Jesus if you do not know the scriptures of India." And if you do know the scriptures of India you can see where-however well-intentioned they may have been-the authors of the Gospels often completely missed the point and garbled the words and ideas they heard from Jesus, even attributing to him incidents from the life of Buddha (such as the Widow's Mite) and mistaking his quotations from the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita and the Dhammapada for doctrines original to him.

 

For example, the opening verse of the Gospel of John, which has been cited through the centuries as proof of the unique character and mission of Jesus, is really a paraphrase of the Rig Veda verse: "In the beginning was Prajapati, with Him was the Word, and the Word was truly the Supreme Brahman."

BTW, I'm sure you know that spirit was from ruach which meant breath of life. Therefore, "cultivating the breath of life," literally interpreted, could essentially = qigong. (Although, the Bible does not actually contain any instructions for that.)

 

Anyhow, just to play DA here. Fact is, the real Jesus is shrouded in mystery...

Edited March 5, 2009 by vortex

[Prince...]

Y'all can run with the bodhisattva thing if you want. I'm still not convinced. Go ahead and explain the Council of Nicea if you want, but don't assume that people outside of Christianity are the only ones who know anything about the history of the church. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I frequent a religion chat room and I always get some GED genius who saw the DaVinci code and wants to insult me with "You go to church and have faith in what you don't know, I do research!"

 

Based on my understanding, a bodhisattva is one who puts off enlightenment to return for the benefit of others. Christ has not returned. Based on the teachings of a school of mysticism claiming to be descended from the Essenes, I can accept the idea of the bodhisattva. They claim that all of the companion-disciples became very powerful mystics who can return to our existence at will-- but Jesus was fully theosized, meaning he did not simply go to one of the heavens, he returned to the source.

 

I won't attempt to explain this in Buddhist terms because I have a limited understanding of Buddhism. This is what I meant by letting Christians have Jesus. If I explain Shakyamuni in Christian terms, I do him a disservice.

 

I just thought I would mention, if anyone liked The Magus of Java, you should read The Magus of Strovolos, about a Christian Mystic and healer known as Daskalos (The Teacher). He talks about everything I have said and the importance of not mixing ideas from different religions.

 

There is much more I would like to say, but I am going to visit a seminary this weekend and I have not packed!

Edited March 5, 2009 by Prince...

[gendao]

This is interesting...

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Reading prophesies from the Holy book followed by both the Christians and Jewish people made Gurudev realize that they are somehow linked to the preaching offered by Lord Krishna in the Geeta thousands of years ago that preceded Christianity and Judaism.

[shen]

I see alot of you Bums are more Christian then actually Taoist that is rather cool and intruiging to see so many Christian or Jesus lovers.

 

What do you guys think of the Zeitgeist movie about the Sun being Jesus the Sun / Son of God? In creation I think it says God said let me Light could that mean the Sun is the key. The reason Im asking is I do sun gazing and I notice a huge difference in body mind and spirit when I dont see the Sun rising after a few days even on that day.

 

Anyone like to help me out about the Zeigteist movie comments on Sun God = Jesus i do kinda like that idea?!

 

Ape

 

yeshua said one must learn through the natural reflection of things

[宁]

Remember why you used to love Him

 

 

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[Wayfarer64]

The truth of your own spirituality is within you. ALL prophets only point you in that direction...

 

Meditate and introspect..The rest is less than usefull for most - it confounds and seperates us from each other and our actual inner spirituality.