dwai Posted January 14, 2023 25 minutes ago, freeform said: I only answer real questions Touché 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wilhelm Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) edit: wrong thread Edited January 14, 2023 by Wilhelm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted January 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, Wilhelm said: Varajyana claps back. Will update later with highlights but I skipped ahead and it seems this is either directly in response to Adams comments re: Varajyana or highly coincidental There's a thread on this. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wilhelm Posted January 14, 2023 23 minutes ago, Apech said: There's a thread on this. My bad thought it just premiered 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) On 13/01/2023 at 9:39 PM, freeform said: The rainbow body… or ‘dragon body’ being an example… the non-rotting body… the crystal ‘relics’ left behind after death etc. The various (visible) light phenomena that occur at various stages etc. In these traditions, if there’s no transformation in the physical, then the transformation is not complete. (there are other traditions with different views - which is where personal discernment comes in). Is that not a few steps down from the higher attainment though? One of the answers I got when asking about the aims of the practice was nirodha (well technically nirodha without return) One thing I find interesting about this interview is that if people were paying attention, they actually gave away the mechanism for generating qi properly. Im not sure if that got lost under the ruffled feathers or what happened, but they pretty much stated it very clearly Edited January 20, 2023 by Shadow_self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Shadow_self said: Is that not a few steps down from the higher attainment though? Yeah rainbow body is considered a lower attainment… which is funny because it’s like a one in a billion sort of thing. The crystal relics - also a ‘lower level’ byproduct - they tend to happen as the density of Yang qi gets so great that it implodes in on itself and crystallises into physical form… These are then sometimes powdered and used in initiatory pills that the disciples of the master then consume… strange stuff 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, freeform said: Yeah rainbow body is considered a lower attainment… which is funny because it’s like a one in a billion sort of thing. Come on now freeform, we both know the 7 day workshop will get you there 1 hour ago, freeform said: The crystal relics - also a ‘lower level’ byproduct - they tend to happen as the density of Yang qi gets so great that it implodes in on itself and crystallises into physical form… These are then sometimes powdered and used in initiatory pills that the disciples of the master then consume… strange stuff Ugh, pills (Personally, I think i'd prefer my powdered deceased master relics snorted through a bank note, or in some tea ) Jokes aside, thanks for elucidating to the process though, first time i'd heard that description given The higher attainment leaves no such thing behind though I believe, that's tho whole gone and never ever coming back thing? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted January 20, 2023 13 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: The higher attainment leaves no such thing behind though I believe, that's tho whole gone and never ever coming back thing? As far as I understand yeah… Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted January 20, 2023 21 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: Ugh, pills (Personally, I think i'd prefer my powdered deceased master relics snorted through a bank note, or in some tea ) I seem to remember that there’s some eating of your master’s flesh in the Tibetan traditions too 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barnaby Posted January 20, 2023 30 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: Come on now freeform, we both know the 7 day workshop will get you there Yeah, but it’ll cost you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barnaby Posted January 20, 2023 26 minutes ago, freeform said: I seem to remember that there’s some eating of your master’s flesh in the Tibetan traditions too Whereas in your tradition, it’s more a case of the master inserting part of his anatomy into one of your orifices, as I recall… 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MIchael80 Posted January 21, 2023 13 hours ago, freeform said: As far as I understand yeah… Hi Freeform! 😊 I was taught in different lineages that "rainbow body" (meaning the physical form completly disolves into light)is the highest attainment. Only in some very ancient daoist traditions there was one higher level....that was that the practitioner could decide the time WHEN to disolve the physical body....and with rainbow body they could not decide when , just that it disolves. They called that "completing the dao". Both said that disolving the physical body is a sign that all karma is disolved and that is why it is so rare. So what would be a higher attainment than that? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, MIchael80 said: I was taught in different lineages that "rainbow body" (meaning the physical form completly disolves into light)is the highest attainment. Oh it might just be a different nuance in description. Yes - dissolving into a bright white light is a sign that the transmutation is complete. Dissolving into a rainbow light means the 5 lights have not fully fused and as a result refract upon ascension. From what I’ve heard - the rainbow body attainment actually is a lot more dramatic to an observer - the sky is filled with rainbow light and is visible for miles around. Dissolving into pure light (no refraction) is a more localised blinding white light - the body slowly dissolves leaving nothing but light that then fades suddenly with nothing left behind. The rainbow body indicates that although all physical karma has been fully transmuted, the final fusion of the soul into original spirit hasn’t been completed - and the separation of the spirit into the 5 (pre heavenly) lights is the result upon death… From what I understand it means that you might need to incarnate thousands of years later… though you’d certainly not incarnate as a ‘normal’ sort of human anyway. Maybe a prophet/saint sort of figure. This is just from information I’ve been told - not something I’ve witnessed! Though I’ve seen weird enough stuff that makes this seem somewhat plausible 😅 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted January 21, 2023 17 hours ago, Shadow_self said: One thing I find interesting about this interview is that if people were paying attention, they actually gave away the mechanism for generating qi properly. oh wow. what is it? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mandrake Posted January 21, 2023 15 hours ago, freeform said: Yeah rainbow body is considered a lower attainment… which is funny because it’s like a one in a billion sort of thing. The crystal relics - also a ‘lower level’ byproduct - they tend to happen as the density of Yang qi gets so great that it implodes in on itself and crystallises into physical form… These are then sometimes powdered and used in initiatory pills that the disciples of the master then consume… strange stuff A huge caveat here: Very, very important here to state which tradition and lineage we are speaking about here, as what's implied could vary a lot. I wouldn't trust details about what the rainbow body entails in for example Vajrayana from anyone who isn't schooled and instructed in it directly. It is very technical, nuanced, and not easy to grasp. A lot of what I've read online, once the term popped out of the bag has been wrong, or sometimes even delusional. There's a reason a lot of it was (and still is) secret. Take a term such as jhana/dhyana and see what mess and distorsion has been made out of it - and that is only low-level stuff. No offense to anyone. M Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 21, 2023 29 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said: oh wow. what is it? Sorry man, I've learned not to quote people when engaging with you And since there's no Wikipedia entry, I'm at a bit of an impasse 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted January 21, 2023 52 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: Sorry man, I've learned not to quote people when engaging with you no no, all good. you just confirmed what i suspected. thanks;) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wilhelm Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, freeform said: From what I’ve heard - the rainbow body attainment actually is a lot more dramatic to an observer - the sky is filled with rainbow light and is visible for miles around. Since we are in the realm of speculation here, I had wondered about this sort of description accounting for the stories around Jesus' resurrection (i.e. he showed himself to the five hundred in Cor 15). Other similarities to rainbow body accounts like predicting the date of death etc. Off topic and highly speculative though Edited January 21, 2023 by Wilhelm 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said: no no, all good. you just confirmed what i suspected. thanks;) I suspect seeing as you seem to agree with awaken on so much, It might be better for you to first explore the role of qi storage and compression in neidan. You know that whole pure evil transfer method and all Fortunately that part is wrote down But Im sure a scholar like yourself does know that, so ill leave you to it Edited January 21, 2023 by Shadow_self 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Mandrake said: Very, very important here to state which tradition and lineage we are speaking about here, as what's implied could vary a lot. Oh yeah - sorry, I forget to mention these things sometimes - especially when replying to a question from someone familiar with my POV. Pretty much everything I say comes from Daoist alchemical traditions… and some from a Burmese esoteric Buddhist tradition (Theravadan - but a bit different ) Definitely not Vajrayana! Though I find most genuine tantric systems (whether Hindu, Daoist or Buddhist) line up close. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted January 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said: oh wow. what is it? Ah sarcasm - the sweet lubricator of authentic discussion… Oh wait - did I get that right? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted January 21, 2023 22 hours ago, Shadow_self said: they actually gave away the mechanism for generating qi properly. 1 hour ago, freeform said: Oh wait - did I get that right? you almost did. i was so hoping @Shadow_self would kindly share with me what he learned from those two gentlemen on the mechanism. But no luck so far. May be you would be so kind? What did they gave away exactly? Please... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 21, 2023 20 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said: you almost did. i was so hoping @Shadow_self would kindly share with me what he learned from those two gentlemen on the mechanism. But no luck so far. May be you would be so kind? What did they gave away exactly? Please... How kindly do you share? Last I checked it was 100 entry fee right? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted January 21, 2023 19 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: How kindly do you share? the best things in life are free. ask me anything - i will share it with you fren. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said: the best things in life are free. So that package you're selling must not be special? Quote ask me anything - i will share it with you fren. You will share anything? Really? OK, you could start by sharing the above package freely with us all Edited January 21, 2023 by Shadow_self 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
