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9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

If you want to have a serious conversation about the measures for power Taoists actually have, don't get too defensive or certain of yourself. 

 

So far, we don't see that. What we do see is that you have a particular view of Taoism and interpretation of TTC and Zhuangzi don't seem to preach themselves. 

I totally get what you mean. Well, I have heard a lot about you, mostly good things. Do you teach? I'm open to listening and learning. That's why I'm here. 

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5 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

 

Uh-huh. And bragging about how many fancy cars one's rich family owns and having a private driver is not at all like online forum penii measuring :rolleyes:

 

 

I didn’t take it that way.

Cars, fancy clothes, and money don’t impress me.

I get the sense that he’d be the first to offer me a ride and a drink and want to share his passion and good fortune.

I could be wrong but I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

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9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

While I still don't find Josh terribly impressive with what he claims, he's so far polite albeit flamboyant, and at least not pompous.

 

Let me give you the rundown, son: we've had a huge transition the past couple years. We have dealt with a lot of scammers and people calling themselves masters who don't know what they're talking about, self-initiates who want to make up their own qigong who have zero understanding of TCM. 

 

We had forum members scammed out of thousands of dollars, we had the Western Mo Pai bros claiming to be part of the Mo Pai lineage because of two techniques they learned from a student who was kicked out of the school, we have Jeff who started out offering to scan people for free then pulling them into astral sex cults, and then we had the Alt-Right here posting conspiracy theories about pedophiles in a pizza parlor who were unfortunately also the admin and members of Jeff's cult before Sean, the owner, kicked them all out, so we are in a state of anarchy and catharsis as a lot of repression was here amongst the scams, except for the scams that the admin allowed. 

 

So if we're already in full cynic mode, please understand that this is why. And many of us are also pretty blunt about it because we are burned out by the people claiming to have the rainbow body, siddhis, and the self-initiates, the man-children trying to be Goku, and brats who want psychic techniques like Lightseeker who want to control and seduce others with free techniques while asking others to do the investigation for him. 

 

I get your point, Dad.

I’ve been here for 13 years and seen a few shake ups and changes.

I think some of us take ourselves and this place a bit too seriously.

I haven’t seen any evidence that Josh is a scammer.

I am also quite aware that the forum is ripe for scammers and I am generally on my guard... I’m not buying or selling anything here, only occasionally giving things away for fun.

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1 minute ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

I totally get what you mean. Well, I have heard a lot about you, mostly good things. Do you teach? I'm open to listening and learning. That's why I'm here. 

 

Sure thing, pal. I apologize for the ribbing earlier--didn't expect you to join the forum, but you're showing you're fairly open, so we can discuss some stuff. 

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I don´t own a car.  Nor any clothing that would be at home in Lord Josh Allen´s closet.  Now about weather magic: Whether the OP has skill in the area or not who knows, but I´m pretty sure somebody does.  We´ve talked lately about levitation, we´ve talked about chakra scanning, we´ve talked about the dubious benefits of sitting in full lotus at McDonalds.  All this conversation has me feeling a little hot, and I´d welcome a good storm or two.  What could a little conversation about rain making hurt?  

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2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Sure thing, pal. I apologize for the ribbing earlier--didn't expect you to join the forum, but you're showing you're fairly open, so we can discuss some stuff. 

No need to apologize, everything is cool with me! I've been meaning to join this forum for quite a long time, just haven't got around to it. How long have you been into Taoism? 

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5 minutes ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

I totally get what you mean. Well, I have heard a lot about you, mostly good things. Do you teach? I'm open to listening and learning. That's why I'm here. 

 

I doubt you will learn much here given that the real stuff is hard won and generally transmitted by a teacher! In general, I will give few hints in my posts which most here miss, don't understand, or ignore! Furthermore, playing with the elements is fraught with dangers and is not kindergarten play which most seem to believe.

 

The Lama shaman I posted earlier was a powerful shaman and was at times scary to be around! A very good friend of mine spent a lot of time with him while he was dying and shared with me how scary he was. As powerful as he was cancer took him down!

 

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5 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

I doubt you will learn much here given that the real stuff is hard won and generally transmitted by a teacher! In general, I will give few hints in my posts which most here miss, don't understand, or ignore! Furthermore, playing with the elements is fraught with dangers and is not kindergarten play which most seem to believe.

 

The Lama shaman I posted earlier was a powerful shaman and was at times scary to be around! A very good friend of mine spent a lot of time with him while he was dying and shared with me how scary he was. As powerful as he was cancer took him down!

 

I see. Illness does not discriminate. I take it you are also a teacher? I'm a big fan of Professor Johnson's books, I have most of the collection aside from a couple that doesn't really interest me. I am aware of the danger and the risk. Taoist Occultism has always fascinated me, would I be right in saying you would recommend that I find a teacher? 

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4 minutes ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

I see. Illness does not discriminate. I take it you are also a teacher? I'm a big fan of Professor Johnson's books, I have most of the collection aside from a couple that doesn't really interest me. I am aware of the danger and the risk. Taoist Occultism has always fascinated me, would I be right in saying you would recommend that I find a teacher? 

 

I am not a teacher! You may be aware of the risks, but when you get burned that is the first lesson. I have been severely burned, but with perseverance and a strong will I recovered.

 

If you have no particular path I would recommend finding a teacher. If you are sincere there are a few here that may be able to make recommendations. It doesn't hurt to ask.

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44 minutes ago, steve said:

 

I get your point, Dad.

I’ve been here for 13 years and seen a few shake ups and changes.

I think some of us take ourselves and this place a bit too seriously.

I haven’t seen any evidence that Josh is a scammer.

I am also quite aware that the forum is ripe for scammers and I am generally on my guard... I’m not buying or selling anything here, only occasionally giving things away for fun.

 

Serious question, though...

 

Am I right in thinking you're a disciple in a lineage in Tibetan Buddhism?

 

Since I saw you welcoming ChiDragon back, I could not help but wonder whether you would not have a somewhat (or significantly) more cautious attitude if people like him and "Lord" Josh were showing up here as self-declared masters of Dzogchen and Mahamudra, complete with (like with ChiDragon) a curriculum based on Baidu searches or (like with Josh Allen) a ngakpa's robes or a Karmapa's Black Crown, bought off of Amazon or TaoBao.

 

Tibetan Buddhism takes transmission, empowerment, and lineage extremely seriously. So does Daoism. Would you be cool with it if a self-[taught/deluded] Lord Jane Doe came here with videos waving a sci-fi sword at the sky claiming to be a "Tibetan Buddhist" who is versed the cycle of teachings Ngakpa Yeshe Dorje apparently was? 

 

(Btw, ummmmm, bragging about having cars, private drivers, and thrones (lol) is definitely bragging. That's cool, though, players gonna play, haters gonna hate. I appreciate that Josh has a sense of good humor along with his braggadocio and passion for sartorial pomp.)

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1 hour ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

No need to apologize, everything is cool with me! I've been meaning to join this forum for quite a long time, just haven't got around to it. How long have you been into Taoism? 

 

Been practicing for ten years now. Have a few lineages to represent, and also do Vedic, Atlantean, Shinto, and Akashic stuff. 

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2 hours ago, steve said:

 

I didn’t take it that way.

Cars, fancy clothes, and money don’t impress me.

I get the sense that he’d be the first to offer me a ride and a drink and want to share his passion and good fortune.

I could be wrong but I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

I kinda like flamboyant.. hiya @Lord Josh Allen

 

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7 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

I kinda like flamboyant.. hiya @Lord Josh Allen

 

 

Flamboyant is a hell of a lot better than the façade of being a kind and wise teacher who just wants to give free hugs...but that Jeff thread is already done and Josh seems fun so far, given that he's handled the unofficial hazing pretty well. 

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2 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

Well, you won't see the power if it's all within will you? Showing off is NOT poor taste! Nothing poor about it. I don't scam, I don't have anything to sell, no books, no overpriced talismans, no online lessons, I don't care what the little people do, let them make their money. I don't know if Mak would get along with me or not.  

 

Well, if you are not going to do  any of that stuff above, or intrude inappropriately on others' threads, we can always do with some lighter hearted stuff here. 

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3 minutes ago, moment said:

 

Well, if you are not going to do  any of that stuff above, or intrude inappropriately on others' threads, we can always do with some lighter hearted stuff here. 

 

Agreed. He just came in with either some very bad timing while we are already burned, or some very good timing when a little light humor and playfulness could help. 

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4 hours ago, manitou said:

I don't know if this qualifies or not.

 

A couple years ago, one of the Bums who lived in Australia, made a appeal to anyone who considered themselves a weather shaman to do what they could for his little town in Australia (toward the northeast, if I remember).  A category 5 tornado was heading straight toward the small town and it was to hit within hours.

 

I know many of us were concerned.  I don't know what methods other Bums used, but I pulled out an atlas and put a drinking glass face down over his town in Australia, symbolizing a high pressure zone, and did a little ceremony to put the high pressure in place so the tornado would avoid it.  I know others did their methods too.  After the danger had passed, he posted that the tornado took a little eastward jog just north of his little town and then headed south again.  Bypassed them like a little 90 degree angle.

 

He merely said something like "Well, the tornado just took a little jog" and sort of minimized the whole thing.  I said that I hoped that weather shamans get paid up front.

 

I participated.  It was my second attempt at hurricane management.  The first one I was actually smack in the middle of -- Irene -- when 2.5 million people got evacuation orders and Manhattan was expected to share the fate of Atlantis and so on and nothing much wound up happening.  The night everybody was bracing for the landfall I was in a hotel that had no power and was inhabited by a stranded Canadian hockey team and no one else -- the personnel chose to flee.  Those guys rolled all the chairs on castors they could find out into the corridor and raced each other riding those chairs, lit by candles and lightnings and glowing cigarettes, and there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary life about the whole scene, the wind and rain picking up and suddenly I was transported back to the rain forest where I got my crash course in rain management.  So I stepped outside and stood in the rain and spent a good hour diffusing the hurricane -- no, I don't have scientific proof, or any other kind.  And, no, I can't manipulate the climate -- just what I was taught, extreme rainy weather threatening life and limb, nothing else.  And no, I can't undrought a drought or turn Africa into Seattle or London.  

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26 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

I participated.  It was my second attempt at hurricane management.  The first one I was actually smack in the middle of -- Irene -- when 2.5 million people got evacuation orders and Manhattan was expected to share the fate of Atlantis and so on and nothing much wound up happening.  The night everybody was bracing for the landfall I was in a hotel that had no power and was inhabited by a stranded Canadian hockey team and no one else -- the personnel chose to flee.  Those guys rolled all the chairs on castors they could find out into the corridor and raced each other riding those chairs, lit by candles and lightnings and glowing cigarettes, and there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary life about the whole scene, the wind and rain picking up and suddenly I was transported back to the rain forest where I got my crash course in rain management.  So I stepped outside and stood in the rain and spent a good hour diffusing the hurricane -- no, I don't have scientific proof, or any other kind.  And, no, I can't manipulate the climate -- just what I was taught, extreme rainy weather threatening life and limb, nothing else.  And no, I can't undrought a drought or turn Africa into Seattle or London.  

 

Aaaaw, come on now, give my seattle a break!:D

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8 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

One thing you should know about me, I don't take myself seriously at all, I make fun of myself more than anyone can. I'm really not at all bothered by what people say, I get flack online, offline, you name it but I'm unapologetically me. I've walked down the street and been physically attacked for the way I dress, I've experienced everything. Not everyone will resonate with it but that's not my goal, I'm here to meet people who may have similar interests and I'm here to learn from people who are polar opposites to me.

 

I like that attitude, and can identify with it.  I sincerely believe that you can't become a Taoist wizard by reading a book, and I've known a couple of them.  Also, my 'family' generally take the Ninja attitude of not standing out or wearing costumes, but staying in the shadows.  In fact I know that a lot of people who wear tai chi costumes are amateurs.  I, and many others, naturaly assume that showing off in fancy costumes is because a person is trying to make up for something  :D    

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10 hours ago, Walker said:

 

Serious question, though...

 

Am I right in thinking you're a disciple in a lineage in Tibetan Buddhism?

I was a disciple of a Daoist master and studied, trained, and taught with intensity and a strong sense of duty and obligation for about 13 years. I'd prefer not to get into the details but I ended that relationship and found my current teacher and lineage in Bön. I no longer identify as a disciple. My current relationship has developed with no requirement or expectation of fealty from my teacher and no feeling of obligation or duty on my side. I feel devotion, love, trust, and enormous gratitude because I've seen profound, beneficial changes in my life as a result of my practice. Furthermore, my teacher has instilled in me the realization that this is all about me. I'm the one that needs to do the work. I have the tools I need. I have access to him when I need it and I'm to the point such that when I have a question or doubt, I hear his voice and see his face and know the answer. I'm not saying I'm a master at all, but I don't feel that umbilical cord and yoke of discipleship. I feel the freedom of spontaneous devotion. It's very different for me. I think it's important to make this point, sorry for so many words.

 

Quote

 

Since I saw you welcoming ChiDragon back, I could not help but wonder whether you would not have a somewhat (or significantly) more cautious attitude if people like him and "Lord" Josh were showing up here as self-declared masters of Dzogchen and Mahamudra, complete with (like with ChiDragon) a curriculum based on Baidu searches or (like with Josh Allen) a ngakpa's robes or a Karmapa's Black Crown, bought off of Amazon or TaoBao.

I like ChiDragon. I think he is passionate and open, albeit deeply misguided. If you look back at my interaction with him when he was here before you'll see I have no illusions about his level of competence. He is self-taught and his practice and understanding are fundamentally flawed, IMO. I take nothing he says seriously but it's my hope that he may learn something from his interactions here and grow as a practitioner as a result. While he certainly does try to give the impression that he has a level of deep understanding and mastery, he also generally shows respect to others and an openness to criticism to a degree. There are lots of self-declared masters that come and go here in all sorts of disciplines. I decide for myself what their level of skill and understanding are and agree that it's good for us to give warnings to the less confident members about people like this. 

 

I haven't seen anything like that yet from Josh. Yes, he wears robes and I have no clue how legitimate they are. I'm not bothered by people wearing unusual or exotic outfits. That's their prerogative. I try to notice when judgement comes up toward others and look at what that says about me and where I want to be in my practice and my treatment of strangers. I am on a path of reducing judgement and cultivating acceptance of others for who they are. There is a line, however, and when I see disrespectful or abusive behavior I do tend to become very protective of the vulnerable. 

 

Quote

 

Tibetan Buddhism takes transmission, empowerment, and lineage extremely seriously. So does Daoism. Would you be cool with it if a self-[taught/deluded] Lord Jane Doe came here with videos waving a sci-fi sword at the sky claiming to be a "Tibetan Buddhist" who is versed the cycle of teachings Ngakpa Yeshe Dorje apparently was? 

Yes, Tibetan Buddhism and Daoism take things very seriously. That is wonderful and valuable, it helps to keep the lineage alive and uncorrupted and the teachings pure. I am responsible for my own attitudes and behavior in my relationship with my path and lineage. I am not the sheriff of Bön. I try not to judge others for their choices in their relationship with their path. There are protectors of the lineages and that is their responsibility as well as that of the lineage holders. I personally would never wear robes that I did not earn but if I felt offense with someone else doing that, I would discuss that with them directly and openly, whether in public or private. I would not assault them with insults and ridicule due to the festering of unexpressed emotion. That goes directly against the nature of my personal practice. 

 

Quote

 

(Btw, ummmmm, bragging about having cars, private drivers, and thrones (lol) is definitely bragging. That's cool, though, players gonna play, haters gonna hate. I appreciate that Josh has a sense of good humor along with his braggadocio and passion for sartorial pomp.)

Yes, I agree with you.

Perhaps he is bragging, perhaps he just has a psychological need for attention, maybe he just loves flashy colors and clothes and cars, and maybe he's tripping... who knows? My current approach is to see what he is showing me and, far more importantly, see what reaction it brings up in me. Whatever comes up for me, I try to be aware and simply leave it as it is. If something needs to be done, it will happen, as it did regarding Jeff and his crew.

 

I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss this with me. 

Peace

 

PS - I do get where you’re coming from and respect it, for me what is important is what we do with that

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6 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Agreed. He just came in with either some very bad timing while we are already burned, or some very good timing when a little light humor and playfulness could help. 

 

His timing was neither good nor bad, it just is. 

What counts is my reaction.

That's also neither good nor bad, it is what it is and it is all about who I am, not who he is.

That's my path.

He's stuck with his...

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8 hours ago, moment said:

 

Well, if you are not going to do  any of that stuff above, or intrude inappropriately on others' threads, we can always do with some lighter hearted stuff here. 

I hear you. If you are looking for some escapism and entertainment, I make green screen productions with special effects and lots of editing. It makes a nice change from the heavy subjects. 

 

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11 hours ago, ralis said:

 

I doubt you will learn much here given that the real stuff is hard won and generally transmitted by a teacher! 

 

 

For me, part of the beauty of TDB is it can put people in contact with wonderful and effective teachers and practices.  I´ve learned a lot here.  It´s not so much that I´ve learned directly from posts, although that too, more that people have told me about things and I´ve followed up in the real world.  As a direct result of practices I´ve read about here I´ve gone to events with teachers in Colorado, Vermont, California, Hawaii.  I´ve also participated in several online workshops.  It´s been great.  (Do I sound like I´m bragging?  Please don´t throw tomatoes.)   

 

I wish Lord Josh Allen a similarly rich learning journey!

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1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

 

For me, part of the beauty of TDB is it can put people in contact with wonderful and effective teachers and practices.  I´ve learned a lot here.  It´s not so much that I´ve learned directly from posts, although that too, more that people have told me about things and I´ve followed up in the real world.  As a direct result of practices I´ve read about here I´ve gone to events with teachers in Colorado, Vermont, California, Hawaii.  I´ve also participated in several online workshops.  It´s been great.  (Do I sound like I´m bragging?  Please don´t throw tomatoes.)   

 

I wish Lord Josh Allen a similarly rich learning journey!

 

I also don’t learn that much from information or opinions that are posted. I have learned some great lessons from watching how people treat others (good and bad), and even greater lessons from learning to watch how I react to and treat others (good and bad).

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48 minutes ago, steve said:

 

 I have learned some great lessons from watching how people treat others (good and bad), and even greater lessons from learning to watch how I react to and treat others (good and bad).

 

Opportunities for this style of learning have been increasing for me of late.  Is the weather changing?

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