Deleted

[Stosh]

27 minutes ago, thelerner said:

One year I started using the Ignore list function.  It slowly grew.  People who annoyed me, had different opinions, made grammatical errors, the very young, the very old.  Soon I was the only one left. 

 

I had the bums to myself.  ahh those were good days. 

I never did use that function , except to stop annoying someone... and quickly decided it wasn't for me  

[Mudfoot]

38 minutes ago, thelerner said:

 

I had the bums to myself.  ahh those were good days. 

It is still so. 

We are just a figment of your imagination. 

[Mudfoot]

24 minutes ago, rene said:

Drew, aka voidisyinyang or whatever his latest incarnation is - 

He has promised to leave. 

He wrote that in december, on his blog, that he had posted his last post here. 

I think the reason was that you guys spend to much time and space selling in your methods, and you gals are too female. 

 

Hey, it's april now! Darn..... 😁 

[Armando]

23 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Whatever you do in the pursuit of truth or reality takes you away from your own very natural state in which you always are. It’s not something you can acquire, attain or accomplish as a result of your effort. All that you do makes it impossible for what already is there to express itself. That is why I call this your natural state. You’re always in that state. What prevents what is there from expressing itself in its own way is the search. The search is always in the wrong direction, so all that you consider very profound, all that you consider sacred, is a contamination in that consciousness. You may not [Laughs] like the word contamination but all that you consider sacred, holy and profound is a contamination. There’s nothing that you can do, it’s not in your hands. This is something which I can’t give because you have it. It is ridiculous to ask for a thing which you already have. There isn’t anything to get from anybody. You have what I have. I say you are there.

 

UG Krishnamurti

 

Yes, this perspective (shared by Krishnamurti and others - e.g. Alan Watts comes to mind) has validity to it. Sometimes we are trying too hard to get somewhere really fast. Eventually, we tense up and thereby block the process. At times like these, it is good to remind ourselves that, indeed, we already are where we are hoping to go and that, in fact, we have always been there and will always be there.

 

This is true - essentially. However, it is also true that there are steps to be taken and levels of the self to be realised. And in this process of navigating the self, we may sometimes be going through stages that (even though a degree of acceptance is still key) we don't want to focus on too much, but rather direct our attention in a direction we want to go. And there can be validity to this too.

 

As far as I am concerned, no such concepts are always true and appropriate. They are tools to be used as we see fit - depending on where we are and where we are heading to (or not).

[silent thunder]

Just now, Armando said:

 

Yes, this perspective (shared by Krishnamurti and others - e.g. Alan Watts comes to mind) has validity to it. Sometimes we are trying too hard to get somewhere really fast. Eventually, we tense up and thereby block the process. At times like these, it is good to remind ourselves that, indeed, we already are where we are hoping to go and that, in fact, we have always been there and will always be there.

 

This is true - essentially. However, it is also true that there are steps to be taken and levels of the self to be realised. And in this process of navigating the self, we may sometimes be going through stages that (even though a degree of acceptance is still key) we don't want to focus on too much, but rather direct our attention in a direction we want to go. And there can be validity to this too.

 

As far as I am concerned, no such concepts are always true and appropriate. They are tools to be used as we see fit - depending on where we are and where we are heading to (or not).

Well said.  Thank you.

 

While I usually espouse here solely the merits of deep and radical release and downplay the usefullness of tension/effort, I also appreciate the experience of the deeper relaxation that arises after intense tension.  We seem to flow fluidly within a spectrum of antipodal forces/conditions; forces that are always flowing toward balance, yet are never static and in balance.  This flowing of conditions toward balance occurs seemingly naturally, effortlessly, to me, without need of skill or thought. 

 

As water flows downhill without training, skill or mind, so do we move fluidly through life.  In this mode effort is inhibitory.  Yet to arive at this perspective, considerable effort may bring benefit.

 

My words seem muddy no matter how many times I rearrange them, so I'll parrot and share the words of Shunryu Suzuki.  Hopefully his words resonate the paradox of the perfection of what is as it is, vs achieving through the use of force/effort.

 

As a good friend says... it seems to be 'both, same time'.

 

"Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement."

"As long as you seek for something, you will get the shadow of reality and not reality itself."

"it is wisdom that is seeking for wisdom."

"No teaching could be more direct than just to sit down."

[liminal_luke]

47 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

 

While I usually espouse here solely the merits of deep and radical release and downplay the usefullness of tension/effort, I also appreciate the experience of the deeper relaxation that arises after intense tension. 

 

Perhaps effort and effortlessness are not ultimately so opposed.  Like the primordial forces of yin and yang, they can interpenetrate, give rise to each other in a natural rhythm.  Weaving intentionality and surrender together in a single braid, we arrive at...´(well, honestly I don´t know where this goes but I´d like to get there.)

[rene]

12 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Perhaps effort and effortlessness are not ultimately so opposed.  Like the primordial forces of yin and yang, they can interpenetrate, give rise to each other in a natural rhythm.  Weaving intentionality and surrender together in a single braid, we arrive at...´(well, honestly I don´t know where this goes but I´d like to get there.)

 

You arrive at Both, same time!

 

We intentionally (using effort) try to accomplish something - all the while being totally fine with the possibility that we will not succeed as planned!

Intentionality and surrender do not exclude each other! (-:

[liminal_luke]

2 minutes ago, rene said:

 

You arrive at Both, same time!

 

 

Yes, that´s it exactly.  I´m a big fan of your both/same time philosophy.

[silent thunder]

Wonderful stuff.  This open question arises... is effort a requirement for what is?

 

There are subtle distinctions for me within effort/non-effort that perhaps may seem contradictory and non-sensical, yet for me, there is no contradiction.

 

maybe I can find some words to describe what the sense within awareness seems to be...

 

While authentic action can involve much activity, this does not necessarily involve or even require the expenditure of effort, nor the presence of tension.

 

The natural state may involve activity, does this connote effort?

 

Where does effort fall in the perfection of what is, as it is?

 

Is effort required?  Is effort beneficial?  open questions, I have no firm answers, just riffing on a theme...

 

[rene]

16 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Wonderful stuff.  This open question arises... is effort a requirement for what is?

 

There are subtle distinctions for me within effort/non-effort ...

 

Does 'intent' play into this for you? Perhaps in effort, but not in authentic action? (wonderful term for non-effort, btw )

[Fa Xin]

I think I'm the one who should be blamed.

 

I let all the trolls in...and poor Karen is left to sort out the mess.

[escott]

On 4/11/2019 at 11:53 PM, Pilgrim said:

Try being worthy, be loving, considerate, kind tolerant and patient those are the real super powers not anything other.

 

Reminds me of a song by Living Colour - This Is The Life

 

In another life
You might have been a genius
In another life
You might have been a star
In another life
Your face might have been perfect
In another life
You'd drive a better car

 

In another life
All your jokes are funny
In another life
Your heart is free from fear
In another life
You make a lot of money
In this other life
Everything is clear

 

In another life
You're always the hero
In another life
You always win the game
In another life
No one ever cheats you
In another life
You never have to change

 

In another life
Your friends never desert you
In another life
You never have to cry
In another life
No one ever hurts you
In this other life
Your loved-ones never die

 

But this is the life you have
This is the life you have
This is the life you have
This is the life

 

In another life
You're always the victim
In another life
You're always the thief
In another life 
You are always lonely
In this other life
There is no relief

 

In your real life
Treat it like it's special
In your real life
Try to be more kind
In your real life
Think of those that love you
In this real life
Try to be less blind

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by escott

[thelerner]

There's the admonition to THINK before you post.

 

Is it True

Is it Helpful

Is it Inspiring

Is it Necessary

Is it Kind? 

 

Course thats reads a little cliche-ish.  Take it to literally and we'd be cutting out 3/4 of our material.   I'd be willing to throw out Inspiring, as its a nice bonus but not necessary.  Is any post really Necessary?  Probably not, we can put that in the bonus section too.  True is important so keep that.  Helpful to whom?  Hopefully someone and not totally for egoic satisfaction. 

 

Is it Kind?.. is a good question.  We're not in pre-school, we don't need to always be nice, yet most of the time kindness keeps the community working better and keeps us in our better selves.  I'll often re-write my most critical posts by taking out the You's and turn them into more generic less pointing and less personal. 

 

Appropriateness and politeness are worthy of consideration before hitting the return key.  Write often enough as an asshole and you become for all intents and purposes an asshole.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by thelerner

[thelerner]

13 hours ago, GSmaster said:

Kindness is an illusion, sometimes being "kind" is being savage, and being "brutal" is being kind. IF you dont see a bigger picture you will never understand. Kindness to some people, make them go the wrong road and end up into selfdestruction. There is another word - is being pampered, it is extremely unhealthy practice in esoteric schools, as people won't be able to survive in real world after being excessively pampered

 

Most of the time having Kindness as a default is a good idea.  Hopefully basic intelligence warns us in cases when things are off.   If one is constantly being nasty and thinking they're really being deep, it may be a sign their ego's taken over. 

 

I've found strong competent people to be as kind or kinder then weaker less competent ones.  I think its because they can afford to be.  Nastiness can be a defense mechanism brought on by fear, conditioning and wanting to score imaginary points. 

[Apech]

17 hours ago, thelerner said:

Most of the time having Kindness as a default is a good idea.  Hopefully basic intelligence warns us in cases when things are off.   If one is constantly being nasty and thinking they're really being deep, it may be a sign their ego's taken over. 

 

I've found strong competent people to be as kind or kinder then weaker less competent ones.  I think its because they can afford to be.  Nastiness can be a defense mechanism brought on by fear, conditioning and wanting to score imaginary points. 

 

 

I try to be kind but not to overdo it.  So I like to keep a balance.

 

For instance if I see an old or disabled person struggling to get across a busy road.  I'll help them half way across.

[thelerner]

The few accomplished sages I know aren't into judging people.  Its not there bag.  Thankfully I have ordinary friends who are willing to tell me when I'm full of shit.  Which generally doesn't take much mystic insight. 

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

I try to be kind but not to overdo it.  So I like to keep a balance.

 

For instance if I see an old or disabled person struggling to get across a busy road.  I'll help them half way across.

 

 

I like helping the disabled cross the road ....

 

... when they dont want to .

 

They put up a struggle and that makes them look even MORE disabled ... then peeps  watching  be thinking I doing a good job and being REALLY patient and helpful  !