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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

The war in which the prehistoric Athenians struck back an overly imperialistic Atlantis that had conquered much of the then-known world took place prior to the cataclysm that destroyed both civilizations.

This says they were all over in Europe ,so how are they not European?

 

If they conquered much of the then known world, then they are a group we are aware of by some other name. 

 

They can't both be in Europe, and not, nor can they have conquered the known world unnoticed.

 

Atlantis is destroyed at least six generations before Plato , can I say that ? did they have horses wheels and drink milk?

Edited by Stosh

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1 hour ago, Stosh said:

This says they were all over in Europe ,so how are they not European?

 

If they conquered much of the then known world, then they are a group we are aware of by some other name. 

 

They can't both be in Europe, and not, nor can they have conquered the known world unnoticed.

 

Atlantis is destroyed at least six generations before Plato , can I say that ? did they have horses wheels and drink milk?

 

 

The only people inhabiting Europe prior to 10kya were the Western Hunter Gatherers according to both the archeological record and genetics.

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1 hour ago, Stosh said:

This says they were all over in Europe ,so how are they not European?

 

Did the Germans that were occupying France in WWII become French?

 

Plato's description really sounds like a world war. The Atlanteans were attempting to control especially the Mediterrenean area. First, they were opposed by various countries, but eventually, the Athenians were on their own.

 

Plato isn't specific about how long the Atlanteans had been occupying any particular area, but his description sounds more like a dramatic series of events going down. How much time there was for cultural intermixing is subject to conjecture.

 

Quote

If they conquered much of the then known world, then they are a group we are aware of by some other name. 

 

They can't both be in Europe, and not, nor can they have conquered the known world unnoticed.

 

Atlantis is destroyed at least six generations before Plato , can I say that ?

 

No, that was when Solon was visiting Egypt (around 600 B.C.) and heard the story. According to the Egyptian priests that were keeping those records, the war happened 9000 years prior to Solon's visit, so around 9600 B.C.

 

This is sometimes treated as the date of the cataclysm, however, strictly speaking the latter took place at an unspecified time after the Atlanteans had been struck back.

 

Quote

did they have horses wheels and drink milk?

 

Plato describes the Atlantean horse training courses and battle chariots in detail. He says nothing about drinking milk, though he talks about the bull playing a central role in the Atlantean religion.

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Interesting on mesolithic culture etc.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The Germans remained Eurpopean in France.

 

Nobody else mentions Atlanteans, and if just the Egyptians and Athenians recorded them ,they were indeed noticed.

11600ya is in fact more than 6 generations before Solon.

 

The first chariot dates to appx 3700ya.

Yamna culture showing up around 5300ya.

 

Chariots were not yet invented , Athens wasn't founded,11600ya.

And cattle weren't domesticated before 10500ya

Edited by Stosh

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On 3/17/2019 at 8:26 AM, Apech said:

 

 

The only people inhabiting Europe prior to 10kya were the Western Hunter Gatherers according to both the archeological record and genetics.

That's what I am reading as well, but I am trying to be open to some scenario that would fit for an Atlantis,even broadly defined.

They, Atlanteans, can't have been known to the Egyptians,as having chariots ,before they were invented, and adopted, by the Egyptians. Btw ,,which was only 3700ya. That's after the founding of Athens. So there can be no proto-Athenians to fight the Atlanteans, as I see it.  Y'all go and proceed.

 

 

 

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On 17/03/2019 at 10:23 PM, Stosh said:

This says they were all over in Europe ,so how are they not European?

 

If they conquered much of the then known world, then they are a group we are aware of by some other name. 

 

They can't both be in Europe, and not, nor can they have conquered the known world unnoticed.

 

Atlantis is destroyed at least six generations before Plato , can I say that ? did they have horses wheels and drink milk?

 

 

Wait !

 

I have figured it out  !

 

They where the Pishdadians  ! 

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14 minutes ago, Stosh said:

That's what I am reading as well, but I am trying to be open to some scenario that would fit for an Atlantis,even broadly defined.

They, Atlanteans, can't have been known to the Egyptians,as having chariots ,before they were invented, and adopted, by the Egyptians. Btw ,,which was only 3700ya. That's after the founding of Athens. So there can be no proto-Athenians to fight the Atlanteans, as I see it.  Y'all go and proceed.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, that's the 'problem' .  

 

No one in my 40 years of looking at the subject can present a scenario without a little fudging, or concentrating or even insisting  on focusing on part of Plato's information, while choosing to ignore or be flexible with other parts .

 

Also, over 40 years of looking into the Atlantis  subject and a similar time studying Cultural Anthropology ( across  all times and locations )  I haven't been able to find a match with any group or society or civilisation that fulfils ALL  of Plato's   descriptions.

 

And of course , people tend to pick and choose , focus on or reject those descriptions depending on whether they support or undermine  their ides / beliefs.

 

 

 

Also it is clear that it it was in the Bronze age  ( again, I state that this is all confused as  modern ideas about Atlantis ;  generated by Donellelly and picked up by Theosophists and the like seem to be  fuelling interpretations - even though it is claimed to be relying on Plato  :

 

 

" Once Plato’s texts are read thoroughly, (if he is considered as a main source), it cannot be maintained that “Atlantis disappeared 12.000 years ago”, because that is not what Plato conveys through the notes that his penta-grandaunt (Solon) brought from Egypt. Such statement would be absurd. Atlanteans could not have started their military expansion, conquering and colonizing other countries, at the same time as the beginning of their history, that is, 9.000 years before Solon (almost twelve thousand years ago) because they didn’t even know how to navigate and they didn’t have vessels then. Consequently, it is impossible that Atlantis, with its maritime civilization that was not even born yet, could have disappeared at the same time as Poseidon received the island and fell in love with Cleito. That is, it is impossible that Atlantis disappeared just at the same time as the history of Atlantis begun.

 

The appropriate reading of the Timaeus and The Critias makes clear that the end of Atlantis as well as their colonizing expansion should happen “long time” (πολλῷ χρόνῳ) afterwards, (we may think about thousands of years later), judging by all the details given about the evolution of Atlantis civilization, from its origin (9.000 years before Solon ,between 11.580 and 11.560 years ago, when they did not have any vessel and they did not have navigation skills) to the period when they reached their highest level, similar to the level of civilization during Metal Age (Chalcolithic or Bronze). So we can place their military and colonizing expansion towards the end of 3.500 BC, at the earliest, and the end of their civilization (with Atlantis sinking) between 2.700 and 1.700 BC, when it is estimated that the same cataclysm as the one that destroyed the primitive Athens occurred (apparently it also destroyed Atlantis), according to the different classical sources.It was the third one, as indicated in the Critias 112b, where more specific information is provided, as it is said it happened right before the disaster that occurred in Deucalion times."

 

http://atlantisng.com/blog/correct-chronology-of-atlantis-when-did-atlantis-appear-and-when-did-it-disappear/

 

 

 

Cadiz still the best candidate !    ( But it  doesn't fit with  SOME of Plato's criteria so it was fobbed off .   ..... not that a whole lot of other stuff, including history, and archaeology, common   sense  and a sensible time line   wasn't fobbed off   ;)  )

 

 

 

 

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The objection has been raised that lack of archaeological evidence refutes the existence of an advanced prehistoric Greek society as described by Plato. This, however, is incorrect.

 

Several unexpected discoveries (reported by T. W. Jacobsen in the magazines Hesperia and Scientific American) were made at Franchthi Cave in the Argolid, most importantly evidence of advanced Aegean seafaring as early as the eleventh millenium B.C. Small amounts of obsidian found in that cave stem from approximately that time and have been identified as originating on the island of Melos, about 90 miles southeast of Franchthi over open seas. And this is not some singular odd discovery, as there were further specimens found in all the following layers, hinting at a long standing maritime tradition.

 

Franchthi Cave today overlooks the Bay of Koilada, however, in Late Paleolithic times, it was four to five miles inland due to lower sea level. Any ports (and perhaps also settlements) associated with it would have been submerged later.

 

Greece in general looked very different in Late Paleolithic times, as Van Andel and Shackleton elaborated in their article "Paleolithic and Mesolithic Coastlines of Greece and the Aegean" (Journal of Field Archaeology 9, 1982). In brief, the Greek peninsula was much larger than it is today, before the extensive coastal plains it had at the time were covered by the immense amounts of glacial meltwater at the beginning of the present inter-glacial period. Van Andel and Shackleton believe that this led to the demise of whole populations specializing in coastal plain resources. Their most important settlements would have been precisely in those lowlands submerged today, and it should not surprise us that we have found but little traces of them so far.

 

Additionally, there is evidence of a period of heavy rains in the northeast Mediterranean midway through the eight millenium, which may have led to the dissolution of the inner landscape as well.

 

Interestingly enough, the Egyptian priest telling Solon about Atlantis and prehistoric Athens in Plato's Critias (111) describes Greece as a mere remnant of her former size, this being the result of deluge, earthquakes, and erosion:

 

You are left, as with little islands, with something rather like the skeleton of a body wasted by disease; the rich soft soil has all run away leaving the land nothing but skin and bone. But in those days, the damage had not taken place; the hills had high crests, the rocky plain of Phelleus was covered with rich soil. ...

 

The Critias goes on to inform us that the postwar deluge and earthquakes (besides destroying Ur-Athens, as we read in the Timaios) denuded the Acropolis and greatly diminished its size. And we can safely assume that the other Greek nations of the time that Plato mentions in passing were overcome in a similar fashion, because the only survivors of those apocalyptic times were "rude mountain folks".

Once again, the interested reader is referred most of all to M. Settegast's outstanding treatise Plato Prehistorian for further details.

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5 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

The objection has been raised that lack of archaeological evidence refutes the existence of an advanced prehistoric Greek society as described by Plato. This, however, is incorrect.

...

 

 

Nothing in this is 'advanced' its just that the mesolithic cultures were capable of more than we originally gave them credit for.

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14 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

The objection has been raised that lack of archaeological evidence refutes the existence of an advanced prehistoric Greek society as described by Plato. This, however, is incorrect.

 

Several unexpected discoveries (reported by T. W. Jacobsen in the magazines Hesperia and Scientific American) were made at Franchthi Cave in the Argolid, most importantly evidence of advanced Aegean seafaring as early as the eleventh millenium B.C. Small amounts of obsidian found in that cave stem from approximately that time and have been identified as originating on the island of Melos, about 90 miles southeast of Franchthi over open seas. And this is not some singular odd discovery, as there were further specimens found in all the following layers, hinting at a long standing maritime tradition.

 

Well, we know people started 'seafaring'   LOOOONG  ago ..... maybe before  60,000 ya   (peeps got to Australia somehow ! )

 

But what does 'advanced seafaring ' mean ? Does it mean taking some  obsidian with you ?      And how does finding  'small amounts of obsidian '  equate to  evidence of an advanced prehistoric society ?   :huh: 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Well, we know people started 'seafaring'   LOOOONG  ago ..... maybe before  60,000 ya   (peeps got to Australia somehow ! )

 

But what does 'advanced seafaring ' mean ? Does it mean taking some  obsidian with you ?      And how does finding  'small amounts of obsidian '  equate to  evidence of an advanced prehistoric society ?   :huh: 

 

 

 

 

An obsidian in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

xxx.gif

 

 

I think its an Apple iObsidian.

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Posted (edited)

Those pieces of obsidian coming from a remote source over a long period of time suggest the use of rather advanced maritime technology for purposes of systematic exploitation. This ties in with the picture Plato painted, referring to an Egyptian priest whose knowledge about prehistoric Greece was impressively accurate IMO.

 

Why we haven't found more archaeological evidence backing it up so far can be explained. Also, relatively recent excavations at sites like Jericho and Göbekli Tepe already demonstrated our generalized views of prehistoric societies as hunter-gatherers to be woefully inadequate. Plato's prehistoric Greece became a distinct possibility.

 

That being said, I agree that there is no hard evidence for that - or for most other things shared in this thread. Presenting tidbits is all I can do for now. None of those will be sufficient by themselves to revolutionize anybody's view of ancient history. Taken all together, they may be forming a beautiful jigsaw for us to behold eventually.

 

That is, for those who are willing to allow that picture a chance to emerge. Poo-pooing whatever is shared right away as not being valid or sufficient evidence will effectively block the process for the adamant sceptic. But that's their choice to make, to be sure.

Edited by Michael Sternbach

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Posted (edited)

Well, I am into forming  a jigsaw puzzle.  The picture I am starting to see is  looking like ancient pre-catastrophic Cadiz.

 

We got a Nat Geo docos on it   , pros on the case, interesting scans,  a reasonable background story, and  a more archaeologicl correct time line  ( according to  Georgeos Díaz-Montexano, ...  President Emeritus of the Scientific Atlantology International Society (SAIS), Historical-Scientific  and Historical-Scientific Atlantology Adviser for National Geographic Channel   :)  ) 

 

That's not poo-pooing   ,  its just  .....

 

......

 

ummmm  .....    looking at  less poo-poo       ^_^

Edited by Nungali

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11 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Those pieces of obsidian coming from a remote source over a long period of time suggest the use of rather advanced maritime technology for purposes of systematic exploitation. This ties in with the picture Plato painted, referring to an Egyptian priest whose knowledge about prehistoric Greece was impressively accurate IMO.

 

Why we haven't found more archaeological evidence backing it up so far can be explained. Also, relatively recent excavations at sites like Jericho and Göbekli Tepe already demonstrated our generalized views of prehistoric societies as hunter-gatherers to be woefully inadequate. Plato's prehistoric Greece became a distinct possibility.

 

That being said, I agree that there is no hard evidence for that - or for most other things shared in this thread. Presenting tidbits is all I can do for now. None of those will be sufficient by themselves to revolutionize anybody's view of ancient history. Taken all together, they may be forming a beautiful jigsaw for us to behold eventually.

 

That is, for those who are willing to allow that picture a chance to emerge. Poo-pooing whatever is shared right away as not being valid or sufficient evidence will effectively block the process for the adamant sceptic. But that's their choice to make, to be sure.

 

Its not really that remote (you mentioned 90 miles - but I have read that it has also been discovered in Asia Minor.)  We know that neolithic peoples traded in valuable materials, especially those useful for tools quite widely.  All it takes is a barter system, boats and people willing to travel.  And not necessarily vastly long distances but just to various trading points - so no need for advanced maritime technology as you put it.

 

You are right that there has been a very limited view of the capacities of pre-historic cultures - although this is now changed/changing - because of the archeological evidence.  the whole Atlantis thing - needs just that - hard evidence and not speculation IMO.

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Using scrutiny, is not deserving of dismissal ,for being Pooh pooing. Going 90 miles by boat is pretty dinky by normal standards, when in NA obsidian has been found from locations hundreds , maybe thousands of miles Overland. 

 Simple Walrus hide boats are taken long distances. 

Prehistoric people were able to do a lot with simple tech, and that's what they deserve credit for, not to be downplayed by presuming alien interference ,or that they had advanced maritime equipment or tech.

I am not big on Cadiz or any existing place, for that matter, if the specs for the civilization are being fulfilled retroactively, and the source could potentially have been talking about any place on Earth. 

Who has never had flooding, or a war, or potential hubris?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Stosh said:

Using scrutiny, is not deserving of dismissal ,for being Pooh pooing.

 

Indeed, well put .

 

Over the years, when I floated my theories (or tried to float the theories of other writers that I was attracted to  ), such feedback , analysis or information, if it checked out. would be incorporated into the developing picture, and often change it completely.

 

But I think we know this thread  is trying to reach a certain conclusion , a central idea or premise  - I just haven't seen what it is yet .

 

I know Michael said it was to show how his 'inner knowledge' was correct ,  but I think it has to be more than that .   ? 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Stosh said:

 

 

 

Going 90 miles by boat is pretty dinky by normal standards, when in NA obsidian has been found from locations hundreds , maybe thousands of miles Overland. 

 

Thats a bit more than min distance to cross into Australia 

 

 " Our analysis using new high-resolution mapping of the seafloor shows that when sea levels were 75m or lower than present, a string of more than 100 habitable, resource-rich islands were present off the coast of northwest Australia.

These islands were directly visible from high points on the islands of Timor and Roti and as close as 87km. "

 

file-20180508-46353-ts06zx.jpg?ixlib=rb-

 

 

YET 

 

 " In a study published in Quaternary Science Reviews this week, we use new environmental reconstructions, voyage simulations, and genetic population estimates to show for the first time that colonisation of Australia by 50,000 years ago was achieved by a globally significant phase of purposeful and coordinated marine voyaging. "

 

The shorter distance is the ice age max and lowest sea level . people came into Australia long before that so that the distance would have been greater across the sea .

 

Also note the research cites ; " a globally significant phase of purposeful and coordinated marine voyaging. "   - globally  significant  !   This phase of marine voyaging was a common trait of peoples back then, so anyone showing evidence of that isnt really more advanced for its time, compared to others .

 

Regarding obsidian moving  overland , here the equivalent would be ochre, here it has been tracked from SW Australia right up to the 'Top End ' - 1000s of km .

 

Also similar journeys  for pearl shell

 

traderoutesaust.gif

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Stosh said:

 Simple Walrus hide boats are taken long distances. 

Prehistoric people were able to do a lot with simple tech, and that's what they deserve credit for, not to be downplayed by presuming alien interference ,or that they had advanced maritime equipment or tech.

 

Well, here is the thing ; (so far) no mention of such has been bought forward.  There is suggestion of a people with advanced technology or knowledge, further advanced than the rest of the people. And their influence on the others caused an advancement in their society.   ( I think that is what the idea is  ... ? )  

 

But where did they get their knowledge? isnt that a type of 'turtle stacking'    ?     Especially when we can observe , generally, a development of tech and knowledge  in societies.

 

 

4 hours ago, Stosh said:

I am not big on Cadiz or any existing place, for that matter, if the specs for the civilization are being fulfilled retroactively, and the source could potentially have been talking about any place on Earth. 

Who has never had flooding, or a war, or potential hubris?

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Indeed, well put .

 

Over the years, when I floated my theories (or tried to float the theories of other writers that I was attracted to  ), such feedback , analysis or information, if it checked out. would be incorporated into the developing picture, and often change it completely.

 

But I think we know this thread  is trying to reach a certain conclusion , a central idea or premise  - I just haven't seen what it is yet .

 

I know Michael said it was to show how his 'inner knowledge' was correct ,  but I think it has to be more than that .   ? 

 

 

 

 

Thats a bit more than min distance to cross into Australia 

 

 " Our analysis using new high-resolution mapping of the seafloor shows that when sea levels were 75m or lower than present, a string of more than 100 habitable, resource-rich islands were present off the coast of northwest Australia.

These islands were directly visible from high points on the islands of Timor and Roti and as close as 87km. "

 

file-20180508-46353-ts06zx.jpg?ixlib=rb-

 

 

YET 

 

 " In a study published in Quaternary Science Reviews this week, we use new environmental reconstructions, voyage simulations, and genetic population estimates to show for the first time that colonisation of Australia by 50,000 years ago was achieved by a globally significant phase of purposeful and coordinated marine voyaging. "

 

The shorter distance is the ice age max and lowest sea level . people came into Australia long before that so that the distance would have been greater across the sea .

 

Also note the research cites ; " a globally significant phase of purposeful and coordinated marine voyaging. "   - globally  significant  !   This phase of marine voyaging was a common trait of peoples back then, so anyone showing evidence of that isnt really more advanced for its time, compared to others .

 

Regarding obsidian moving  overland , here the equivalent would be ochre, here it has been tracked from SW Australia right up to the 'Top End ' - 1000s of km .

 

Also similar journeys  for pearl shell

 

traderoutesaust.gif

 

 

 

 

Well, here is the thing ; (so far) no mention of such has been bought forward.  There is suggestion of a people with advanced technology or knowledge, further advanced than the rest of the people. And their influence on the others caused an advancement in their society.   ( I think that is what the idea is  ... ? )  

 

But where did they get their knowledge? isnt that a type of 'turtle stacking'    ?     Especially when we can observe , generally, a development of tech and knowledge  in societies.

 

 

 

I am open to being convinced. What's the advanced tech? The outrigger? Or perhaps dead reckoning by the stars?

What's "coordinated marine voyaging?" As opposed to, marine voyaging?

What's advanced trading in obsidian? I give you rock, you hand over wife!😉 There's always the holy crap event. And that's when a dude says, Holy crap, I can't see land anymore!

If the Atlanteans had battleships, how could they stumble over the proto Athenians , give up and go home? 

Oh my ,that naked man with a beard frowned! Quick, pack up, we're going home!

If you know a place exists, you can make plans to get there. That doesn't need proving does it? A ship can sail all over the med , and in any direction hit land, and I suppose you might surmise Australia from the mainland , from clouds or birds or floating trees.or from Roti,, But how the heck do folks ever end up on Easter Island, not knowing it's out there to go to? It almost suggests outright ,that lost people were drifting all Over the ocean !

That doesn't sound like advanced maritime tech, it sounds like giant cojones. 

Edited by Stosh

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8 minutes ago, Stosh said:

I am open to being convinced. What's the advanced tech?

 

You have to ask Michael about that. I haven't seen a clear answer.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Stosh said:

The outrigger? Or perhaps dead reckoning by the stars?

 

Nah.  What happens at  day time when no stars. Its actually MORE advanced than that ;  wind, wave directions and deflections and little stick maps

 

25757.jpg

 

 

K21.GIF

 

 

Interference.jpg

 

http://artofwayfinding.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-tradition-of-wave-piloting-marshall.html

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Stosh said:

What's "coordinated marine voyaging?" As opposed to, marine voyaging?

 

?  Some type of group effort  going out in different directions, coming back and sharing info    ?

 

8 minutes ago, Stosh said:

What's advanced trading in obsidian? I give you rock, you hand over wife!😉 There's always the holy crap event. And that's when a dude says, Holy crap, I can't see land anymore!

 

Well, it appears people could live in canoes for months, without sight of land .   An islander told me once it goes something like this '

 

You have a giant canoe with fishing gear, equipment for catching and collecting rainwater, some food,  crates with chickens and maybe some baby pigs and rats  ( to colonise any found islands)  and some slaves to paddle the canoe .  As time goes on, if no land sighted, you might have to eventually eat the chickens and the pigs. If things dont improve you might have to eat the slaves and start paddling yourselves .

 

The other thing is, they appeared to know about the El Nino La Ninya  ocean current fluctuations and go back and forth ( from home base to new lands) as climate allowed.

 

But from personal experience  I have been  out at sea ( with land just barely  still in sight  )  rowing a surf boat , that hardly sits out the water

 

r0_430_4496_2958_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg

 

 

...  scary shit ! 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I do! Really like that stickmap, they should sell em. But the techniques like this really don't seem long reaching enough. I recently saw a clip of an islander doing much the same, looking at stars ,counting logs, and it's just so incredible,,, however,, if discovery boils down to getting lost all the time, I could do that. 😁

So far we know that an Atlantean got lost and eventually found Greece. We don't know if he ate his slaves.

Do your buddies make cast nets by any chance?......

Why would one stock rats?

Edited by Stosh

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Posted (edited)

Hmm ... good question .   

 

They make/made nets  ;

 

'wall nets'

 

11_birtles.f03.df-f00000410.jpg

 

 for fish

 

and kangaroo and birds

 

601-12b.gif

 

 

 

fish and eel traps

 

Fishing-net_sm.jpg

 

 

fishtrap.jpg

 

 

 

scoop nets

 

07260979.jpg

 

 

 

 

But I dont know of them using 'casting nets'  , until modern times .

 

 

One stocks rats for food.  The Polynesians spread them all over the Pacific .

 

"  Scientists say they have traced the ancient migration patterns of the Polynesian people and their Western Pacific ancestors by analyzing the DNA of the rats that rode along with them....

 

Scientists believe that the seafaring Lapita culture, which appeared in the Western Pacific about 3,500 years ago, is ancestral to Polynesian and many other Pacific cultures. As the Lapita colonists spread throughout the islands of Oceania, they introduced several species of plants and animals — including the Pacific rat, or Rattus exulans, which was often transported as food in the colonizing canoes.

 

These rats do not swim, and so scientists assume that humans were solely responsible for their dispersal throughout the Pacific. "

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5160080/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/rat-dna-helps-trace-pacific-migrations/

Edited by Nungali
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That's crazy about the rats, if they had pigs they could eat those, letting rats loose, would turn all the lovely islands they visited ,

intorat infested places you don't want to be!

I thought the rats were accidental. 

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12 hours ago, Apech said:

You want fries with your ratburger?

Thanks, I already ate at McD's

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12 hours ago, Apech said:

You want fries with your ratburger?

 

That would be sweet potato fries   :) 

 

Now there is an interesting development !

 

The ancient advanced world culture that sailed around the world teaching others civilisation and advanced  ... stuff  went to S America, got sweet potaties and took em back to Polynesia  .   :)

 

Didnt they  ?

 

" When Captain James Cook arrived in Polynesia in the eighteenth century on his journey of discovery, the vegetable was already ubiquitous in the region. The prevailing explanation is that Polynesian voyagers had sailed to South America and brought the sweet potato back to the islands on their return. Archaeological and genetic data seemed to support this conclusion,...... The sweet potato seemed to be a solid piece of evidence in support of pre-Columbian contact between Polynesians and South Americans, ....until now.  "

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-04488-4

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