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Hey Bums, In part one we we started looking at the legendary lost island of Atlantis - based especially on Plato's classical description. We talked about its possible location, the environment it supposedly existed in, its development, achievements, and eventual demise. Surely there would still be infinitely more to say about all that, and - no doubt - I as well as others will come back to that topic as we see fit. However, at this time, I would like to take a closer look at the influence that Atlantis - as the most advanced civilization of its time it is portrayed as - may have exerted on other places and cultures. For according to so many sources, some groups of Atlanteans left the island before or at the time of its destruction, settled in various locations and passed on their knowledge to the local natives. The most prominent variation of this theory concerns ancient Egypt, a rather loaded topic that invariably leads to endless debates. Unfortunately, we will have to come back to it nevertheless - in due time! However, on the opposite side of the Atlantic, we still find the monumental buildings, the mythology and indeed the living descendants of an ancient civilization noted for "the most sophisticated and highly developed writing system in pre-Columbian Americas - as well as for its art, architecture, mathematics, calendar, and astronomical system" (Wikipedia): The Maya of Central America. Not only had they reached a similar level of cultural development like the ancient Egyptians, they also shared so many particular traits with them that it does not seem far-fetched to assume that both had the same mother civilization standing at their cradle. Again, "America's greatest psychic" Edgar Cayce made some intriguing statements for us to consider. According to the sleeping prophet, around the time of the final destruction of Atlantis (which he set at about 10.500 BC, not far removed from the date of the cataclysmic comet impact that we now know ended the Ice Age), an Atlantean called Iltar entered the Mexican Yucatan with a group of some ten people and erected some temples, one of which actually contained "a hall of records of Atlantis". However, these first temples "were destroyed at the period of change physically in the contours of the land." Alright, let's stop for a moment to think... Is this at all plausible? Well, we know that at the end of the Ice Age, when the glaciers melted, a considerable land mass was submerged in the Yucatan area (much as what happened in the Bahamas archipelago as we have seen already in my previous Atlantis thread). So yes, that alone could explain why we are not likely to find any buildings extant from those early times, unless (perhaps) we go diving in the right places. What else has academic science to tell us? For instance this: González et al: The Arrival of Humans on the Yucatan Peninsula: Evidence from Submerged Caves in the State of Quintana Roo https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310750546_The_arrival_of_humans_on_the_Yucatan_Peninsula_Evidence_from_submerged_caves_in_the_state_of_Quintana_Roo_Mexico There you have it. Once again, it can be said that Cayce was nothing short of being... prophetic! Dear Atlantis aficionados and critics alike - I am looking forward to whatever you may have to contribute to this thread! Just one request: Let's try to stay on topic please. Which is evidence and hypotheses regarding a supposed Atlantean influence on the prehistoric Americas. So anything pertaining to Atlantis per se (as long as more or less in line with Plato) would better placed in part 1 of my little project: Whereas for conceptions about Atlantean influence on Egypt, the Celts and so forth, I propose to open up especially dedicated threads in the future. Alright. Let's have some fun with this now... Michael
Hi fellow Bums As a few of you may already know, I spent the last one year or so researching the history of some ancient cultures (such as the ones in Egypt, the Americas, Britain, the Pyrenees, amongst others), leading all the way back to the legendary civilization of Atlantis which I believe to be a historical fact. - Based on so many pieces of evidence. This topic is linked to a larger book project I have been pursuing for a couple of decades by now. In regards to its historical section, I am intending to share some of my source material as well as original work in a series of threads, in the hope of finding some resonance and, if possible, a fruitful discussion. Also, be free to ask any questions that may come to mind - I will answer them to the best of my ability. A good place to start our journey into the deep past seems to be the temporal demarcation line drawn by the end of the Last Glacial Period. However, before we depart, it seems to be a good idea to take a look at the topic of the ice ages in more general terms. Since very early geological times, our planet has been going through a series of ice ages, alternating with long warm periods in which our globe was entirely free of ice. The first ice age (called the Huronian) started about 2.4 billion years ago and lasted for 300 million years. It was later followed by the Cryogenian Ice Age lasting 165 million years from 800-635 mya, which was possibly the most severe of them all and might have produced a “Snowball Earth”, in which the Earth iced over completely. A minor series of glaciations then occurred from 450-420 mya, which was followed by more extensive glaciations again for 100 million years from 350-250 mya. More recently, an increase in glaciation on Earth started when ice began to build up over Antarctica about 36 mya during the so-called Eocene Epoch. It was probably related to the breakup of the supercontinent Gondwana, with a drift of the Antarctic continent toward the South Pole and the development of ocean passages around the Antarctica. Globally, temperatures markedly decreased then during the Middle Miocene (about 15 mya), probably as a result of the increased ice growth on Antarctica. The oceans cooled partly due to the formation of the Antarctic Circumpolar Current when ocean currents circled the Antarctic continent without reaching warmer latitudes. At the opposite pole, the Greenland ice cap began to develop in the Middle Pliocene, about 3 mya. Before then, Arctic areas were comparatively warm, with trees and bushes growing far north of the present treeline. The Quaternary Ice Age is the most recent ice age. Ice sheets began to spread over North America and Eurasia around 2.5 mya. This initial glaciation was followed by a series of warmer interglacials (each lasting 10,000-30,000 years) and renewed glaciations (each lasting 70,000-90,000 years) in alternation. Within the Quaternary Ice Age, the most recent phase of glaciation is called the Weichselian/ Wisconsin Glacial Epoch. During its peak, ice sheets covered extensive areas above 40-50º North in both Eurasia and North America. It reached its maximum around 18,000 BC, whereafter the glaciers slowly started melting. That glaciation phase ended for good - and indeed rather abruptly - around 9,600 BC. Due to the slowly melting ice sheets, the global sea-level rose about 60 meters between 18.000 to 9,600 BC, and an additional 50-60 metres until 6000 BC, when it finally reached the level it has today. During those times of rising sea-levels, many islands were covered by water and sediments, and at the same time, much of what once used to be coastal land is now underwater and tens of kilometers out to sea. This explains why man-made structures have been found submerged in various locations off the coasts, with many more supposedly yet to be found. Stories of a deluge in numerous cultures all around the globe may well represent 'collective memories' of those prehistoric changes. For instance, the Bahama Archipelago (identified by the "sleeping prophet" Edgar Cayce as the location of the lost civilization of Atlantis) used to be a coherent dry land mass off the coast of Florida. The part remaining above sea-level today is just a small fraction of its prehistoric extent. Other locations for Atlantis suggested by various researchers include the Greater and Lesser Antilles (also located in the Carribean) as well as the Azores. If interest warrants it, we will be looking into those various theories in more detail later. So while there remain many questions yet to be answered, it strikes me as rather remarkable that a date around 9,600 BC (i.e., around the end of the Weichselian/ Wisconsin Glaciation) was indicated for the destruction of the island of Atlantis in the very source of the story, Plato's late dialogues Timiaios and Critias. Plato's information seems to have come down to him via the Greek statesman Solon, "the wisest of the seven sage", who in turn had received it from Egyptian priests while visiting the very ancient city Sais in the western Nile delta. Again, we should have an opportunity to talk about that in far more depth later. I wish to conclude this introductory post on the note that the Quaternary Ice Age isn't over yet - it continues to the present day. Although the Earth is at present luckily in an interglacial called the Holocene Era, the Quaternary Ice Age might continue for possibly millions of years into the future, as have several past ice ages. If previous glacial-interglacial cycles are any indication of future cycles, it is likely that the present warm interglacial period will end sometime between tomorrow and 20,000 years from now. Then, massive glaciers will advance from the north again, covering much of North America and Eurasia. That being said, we do not need to fret over that possibility right now, as glaciers and ice sheets have been melting and the global sea-level has been rising at an average rate of 1.8 mm per year since 1961, and 3.1 mm per year since 1993. If this trend continues and the ice caps should fully melt, it is estimated that the Antarctica Ice Sheet would contribute more than 60 metres of sea-level rise, and Greenland would contribute more than 7 metres. Go figure! However, it is not unusual for relatively short, somewhat warmer periods to occur both during glacial and interglacial phases. As for the current rise in temperature, its exact causes remain controversial (not least on this board) - however, that is not the theme of this thread! Please reserve THAT debate for one of the thread especially dedicated to it, such as this one: Here, I intend to be looking at the Atlantis legend as shared by Plato in connection with the end of the last Ice Age (to put it more simply) and then to move on to explore other aspects of that lost civilizations and the inheritance that may have been received from it by subsequent cultures that we have more factual knowledge about. An important source for what has been presented here was P.P. Flambas' book Plato's Carribean Atlantis - A Scientific Analysis, which I warmly recommend to anybody with a serious interest in the topic. Material from various other sources has been added, of course. Please try to stay more on less on topic as outlined and try to post comments of a more general nature in our previous TDB Atlantis thread. Thanks! And feel free to discuss.
I've been trying to place Yggdrasil on the map during Pangaea and have followed continents around the world back to their rooted places in prehistory. I was utterly inspired by a speech made by a member about true historians... and compelled by intuitive heartfelt connection to follow up on a creation myth in the book: Other council fires were here before ours. I've come to suspect the the majority features of the earth are evidence of the surfacing and digging of Yggdrasil's roots include the peaking and high mountain ranges and deep surface depressions such as but not limited to the Rockies, Andes, Cascades, Appalachians, Mediterranean and Red Seas, Persian gulf, the Himalayas south end depressions bordering India and running toward the majority coastline of east Asia... Whence the tree was torn apart and the roots died off, volcanoes emerged in the hollowing out underside and the landmasses are being "tilled", so to speak, into the oceans where the deepest parts of the roots dug down. Desperate living rootlings nearer the surface sprouted into new expressions of the myriad plants of our world, and many incredible and fantastic expressions of life, certainly and utterly lost to myth and make believe. The series of earth's events and history are self evident now, with satellite images of the world's surface, look and listen with an open heart to hear, read, see, and understand the history that has brought us to this point in time where we are now.