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  1. Hi fellow Bums As a few of you may already know, I spent the last one year or so researching the history of some ancient cultures (such as the ones in Egypt, the Americas, Britain, the Pyrenees, amongst others), leading all the way back to the legendary civilization of Atlantis which I believe to be a historical fact. - Based on so many pieces of evidence. This topic is linked to a larger book project I have been pursuing for a couple of decades by now. In regards to its historical section, I am intending to share some of my source material as well as original work in a series of threads, in the hope of finding some resonance and, if possible, a fruitful discussion. Also, be free to ask any questions that may come to mind - I will answer them to the best of my ability. A good place to start our journey into the deep past seems to be the temporal demarcation line drawn by the end of the Last Glacial Period. However, before we depart, it seems to be a good idea to take a look at the topic of the ice ages in more general terms. Since very early geological times, our planet has been going through a series of ice ages, alternating with long warm periods in which our globe was entirely free of ice. The first ice age (called the Huronian) started about 2.4 billion years ago and lasted for 300 million years. It was later followed by the Cryogenian Ice Age lasting 165 million years from 800-635 mya, which was possibly the most severe of them all and might have produced a “Snowball Earth”, in which the Earth iced over completely. A minor series of glaciations then occurred from 450-420 mya, which was followed by more extensive glaciations again for 100 million years from 350-250 mya. More recently, an increase in glaciation on Earth started when ice began to build up over Antarctica about 36 mya during the so-called Eocene Epoch. It was probably related to the breakup of the supercontinent Gondwana, with a drift of the Antarctic continent toward the South Pole and the development of ocean passages around the Antarctica. Globally, temperatures markedly decreased then during the Middle Miocene (about 15 mya), probably as a result of the increased ice growth on Antarctica. The oceans cooled partly due to the formation of the Antarctic Circumpolar Current when ocean currents circled the Antarctic continent without reaching warmer latitudes. At the opposite pole, the Greenland ice cap began to develop in the Middle Pliocene, about 3 mya. Before then, Arctic areas were comparatively warm, with trees and bushes growing far north of the present treeline. The Quaternary Ice Age is the most recent ice age. Ice sheets began to spread over North America and Eurasia around 2.5 mya. This initial glaciation was followed by a series of warmer interglacials (each lasting 10,000-30,000 years) and renewed glaciations (each lasting 70,000-90,000 years) in alternation. Within the Quaternary Ice Age, the most recent phase of glaciation is called the Weichselian/ Wisconsin Glacial Epoch. During its peak, ice sheets covered extensive areas above 40-50º North in both Eurasia and North America. It reached its maximum around 18,000 BC, whereafter the glaciers slowly started melting. That glaciation phase ended for good - and indeed rather abruptly - around 9,600 BC. Due to the slowly melting ice sheets, the global sea-level rose about 60 meters between 18.000 to 9,600 BC, and an additional 50-60 metres until 6000 BC, when it finally reached the level it has today. During those times of rising sea-levels, many islands were covered by water and sediments, and at the same time, much of what once used to be coastal land is now underwater and tens of kilometers out to sea. This explains why man-made structures have been found submerged in various locations off the coasts, with many more supposedly yet to be found. Stories of a deluge in numerous cultures all around the globe may well represent 'collective memories' of those prehistoric changes. For instance, the Bahama Archipelago (identified by the "sleeping prophet" Edgar Cayce as the location of the lost civilization of Atlantis) used to be a coherent dry land mass off the coast of Florida. The part remaining above sea-level today is just a small fraction of its prehistoric extent. Other locations for Atlantis suggested by various researchers include the Greater and Lesser Antilles (also located in the Carribean) as well as the Azores. If interest warrants it, we will be looking into those various theories in more detail later. So while there remain many questions yet to be answered, it strikes me as rather remarkable that a date around 9,600 BC (i.e., around the end of the Weichselian/ Wisconsin Glaciation) was indicated for the destruction of the island of Atlantis in the very source of the story, Plato's late dialogues Timiaios and Critias. Plato's information seems to have come down to him via the Greek statesman Solon, "the wisest of the seven sage", who in turn had received it from Egyptian priests while visiting the very ancient city Sais in the western Nile delta. Again, we should have an opportunity to talk about that in far more depth later. I wish to conclude this introductory post on the note that the Quaternary Ice Age isn't over yet - it continues to the present day. Although the Earth is at present luckily in an interglacial called the Holocene Era, the Quaternary Ice Age might continue for possibly millions of years into the future, as have several past ice ages. If previous glacial-interglacial cycles are any indication of future cycles, it is likely that the present warm interglacial period will end sometime between tomorrow and 20,000 years from now. Then, massive glaciers will advance from the north again, covering much of North America and Eurasia. That being said, we do not need to fret over that possibility right now, as glaciers and ice sheets have been melting and the global sea-level has been rising at an average rate of 1.8 mm per year since 1961, and 3.1 mm per year since 1993. If this trend continues and the ice caps should fully melt, it is estimated that the Antarctica Ice Sheet would contribute more than 60 metres of sea-level rise, and Greenland would contribute more than 7 metres. Go figure! However, it is not unusual for relatively short, somewhat warmer periods to occur both during glacial and interglacial phases. As for the current rise in temperature, its exact causes remain controversial (not least on this board) - however, that is not the theme of this thread! Please reserve THAT debate for one of the thread especially dedicated to it, such as this one: Here, I intend to be looking at the Atlantis legend as shared by Plato in connection with the end of the last Ice Age (to put it more simply) and then to move on to explore other aspects of that lost civilizations and the inheritance that may have been received from it by subsequent cultures that we have more factual knowledge about. An important source for what has been presented here was P.P. Flambas' book Plato's Carribean Atlantis - A Scientific Analysis, which I warmly recommend to anybody with a serious interest in the topic. Material from various other sources has been added, of course. Please try to stay more on less on topic as outlined and try to post comments of a more general nature in our previous TDB Atlantis thread. Thanks! And feel free to discuss.
  2. http://www.mysteriousarizona.com/story2a.html http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/nov2/gazette.htm THE ARIZONA GAZETTE of April 5th, 1909 Text of Grand Canyon article EXPLORATIONS IN GRAND CANYON Mysteries of Immense High Cavern Being Brought to Light JORDAN IS ENTHUSED Remarkable Finds Indicate Ancient People Migrated From Orient The latest news of the progress of the explorations of what is now regarded by scientists as not only the oldest archeological discovery in the United States, but one of the most valuable in the world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette, was brought to the city yesterday by G.E. Kinkaid, the explorer who found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a trip from Green River, Wyoming, down the Colorado, in a wooden boat, to Yuma, several months ago. According to the story related to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkaid, the archeologists of the Smithsonian Institute [1], which is financing the expeditions, have made discoveries which almost conclusively prove that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn in solid rock by human hands, was of oriental origin, possibly from Egypt, tracing back to Ramses. If their theories are borne out by the translation of the tablets engraved with hieroglyphics, the mystery of the prehistoric peoples of North America, their ancient arts, who they were and whence they came, will be solved. Egypt and the Nile, and Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a historical chain running back to ages which staggers the wildest fancy of the fictionist. A Thorough Examination Under the direction of Prof. S. A. Jordan, the Smithsonian Institute is now prosecuting the most thorough explorations, which will be continued until the last link in the chain is forged. Nearly a mile underground, about 1480 feet below the surface, the long main passage has been delved into, to find another mammoth chamber from which radiates scores of passageways, like the spokes of a wheel. Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by passageways running from the main passage, one of them having been explored for 854 feet and another 634 feet. The recent finds include articles which have never been known as native to this country, and doubtless they had their origin in the orient. War weapons, copper instruments, sharp-edged and hard as steel, indicate the high state of civilization reached by these strange people. So interested have the scientists become that preparations are being made to equip the camp for extensive studies, and the force will be increased to thirty or forty persons. Mr. Kinkaid's Report Mr. Kinkaid was the first white child born in Idaho and has been an explorer and hunter all his life, thirty years having been in the service of the Smithsonian Institute. Even briefly recounted, his history sounds fabulous, almost grotesque. "First, I would impress that the cavern is nearly inaccessible. The entrance is 1,486 feet down the sheer canyon wall. It is located on government land and no visitor will be allowed there under penalty of trespass. The scientists wish to work unmolested, without fear of archeological discoveries being disturbed by curio or relic hunters. A trip there would be fruitless, and the visitor would be sent on his way. The story of how I found the cavern has been related, but in a paragraph: I was journeying down the Colorado river in a boat, alone, looking for mineral. Some forty-two miles up the river from the El Tovar Crystal canyon, I saw on the east wall, stains in the sedimentary formation about 2,000 feet above the river bed. There was no trail to this point, but I finally reached it with great difficulty. Above a shelf which hid it from view from the river, was the mouth of the cave. There are steps leading from this entrance some thirty yards to what was, at the time the cavern was inhabited, the level of the river. When I saw the chisel marks on the wall inside the entrance, I became interested, securing my gun and went in. During that trip I went back several hundred feet along the main passage till I came to the crypt in which I discovered the mummies. One of these I stood up and photographed by flashlight. I gathered a number of relics, which I carried down the Colorado to Yuma, from whence I shipped them to Washington with details of the discovery. Following this, the explorations were undertaken. The Passages "The main passageway is about 12 feet wide, narrowing to nine feet toward the farther end. About 57 feet from the entrance, the first side-passages branch off to the right and left, along which, on both sides, are a number of rooms about the size of ordinary living rooms of today, though some are 30 by 40 feet square. These are entered by oval-shaped doors and are ventilated by round air spaces through the walls into the passages. The walls are about three feet six inches in thickness. The passages are chiseled or hewn as straight as could be laid out by an engineer. The ceilings of many of the rooms converge to a center. The side-passages near the entrance run at a sharp angle from the main hall, but toward the rear they gradually reach a right angle in direction. The Shrine "Over a hundred feet from the entrance is the cross-hall, several hundred feet long, in which are found the idol, or image, of the people's god, sitting cross-legged, with a lotus flower or lily in each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, and the carving this cavern. The idol almost resembles Buddha, though the scientists are not certain as to what religious worship it represents. Taking into consideration everything found thus far, it is possible that this worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibet. Surrounding this idol are smaller images, some very beautiful in form; others crooked-necked and distorted shapes, symbolical, probably, of good and evil. There are two large cactus with protruding arms, one on each side of the dais on which the god squats. All this is carved out of hard rock resembling marble. In the opposite corner of this cross-hall were found tools of all descriptions, made of copper. These people undoubtedly knew the lost art of hardening this metal, which has been sought by chemicals for centuries without result. On a bench running around the workroom was some charcoal and other material probably used in the process. There is also slag and stuff similar to matte, showing that these ancients smelted ores, but so far no trace of where or how this was done has been discovered, nor the origin of the ore. "Among the other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper and gold, made very artistic in design. The pottery work includes enameled ware and glazed vessels. Another passageway leads to granaries such as are found in the oriental temples. They contain seeds of various kinds. One very large storehouse has not yet been entered, as it is twelve feet high and can be reached only from above. Two copper hooks extend on the edge, which indicates that some sort of ladder was attached. These granaries are rounded, as the materials of which they are constructed, I think, is a very hard cement. A gray metal is also found in this cavern, which puzzles the scientists, for its identity has not been established. It resembles platinum. Strewn promiscuously over the floor everywhere are what people call "cats eyes', a yellow stone of no great value. Each one is engraved with the head of the Malay type. The Hieroglyphics "On all the urns, or walls over doorways , and tablets of stone which were found by the image are the mysterious hieroglyphics, the key to which the Smithsonian Institute hopes yet to discover. The engraving on the tables probably has something to do with the religion of the people. Similar hieroglyphics have been found in southern Arizona. Among the pictorial writings, only two animals are found. One is of prehistoric type. The Crypt "The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one occupying a separate hewn shelf. At the head of each is a small bench, on which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords. Some of the mummies are covered with clay, and all are wrapped in a bark fabric. The urns or cups on the lower tiers are crude, while as the higher shelves are reached, the urns are finer in design, showing a later stage of civilization. It is worthy of note that all the mummies examined so far have proved to be male, no children or females being buried here. This leads to the belief that this exterior section was the warriors' barracks. "Among the discoveries no bones of animals have been found, no skins, no clothing, no bedding. Many of the rooms are bare but for water vessels. One room, about 40 by 700 feet, was probably the main dining hall, for cooking utensils are found here. What these people lived on is a problem, though it is presumed that they came south in the winter and farmed in the valleys, going back north in the summer. Upwards of 50,000 people could have lived in the caverns comfortably. One theory is that the present Indian tribes found in Arizona are descendants of the serfs or slaves of the people which inhabited the cave. Undoubtedly a good many thousands of years before the Christian era, a people lived here which reached a high stage of civilization. The chronology of human history is full of gaps. Professor Jordan is much enthused over the discoveries and believes that the find will prove of incalculable value in archeological work. "One thing I have not spoken of, may be of interest. There is one chamber of the passageway to which is not ventilated, and when we approached it a deadly, snaky smell struck us. Our light would not penetrate the gloom, and until stronger ones are available we will not know what the chamber contains. Some say snakes, but other boo-hoo this idea and think it may contain a deadly gas or chemicals used by the ancients. No sounds are heard, but it smells snaky just the same. The whole underground installation gives one of shaky nerves the creeps. The gloom is like a weight on one's shoulders, and our flashlights and candles only make the darkness blacker. Imagination can revel in conjectures and ungodly daydreams back through the ages that have elapsed till the mind reels dizzily in space." An Indian Legend In connection with this story, it is notable that among the Hopi Indians the tradition is told that their ancestors once lived in an underworld in the Grand Canyon till dissension arose between the good and the bad, the people of one heart and the people of two hearts. Machetto, who was their chief, counseled them to leave the underworld, but there was no way out. The chief then caused a tree to grow up and pierce the roof of the underworld, and then the people of one heart climbed out. They tarried by Paisisvai (Red River), which is the Colorado, and grew grain and corn. They sent out a message to the Temple of the Sun, asking the blessing of peace, good will and rain for people of one heart. That messenger never returned, but today at the Hopi villages at sundown can be seen the old men of the tribe out on the housetops gazing toward the sun, looking for the messenger. When he returns, their lands and ancient dwelling place will be restored to them. That is the tradition. Among the engravings of animals in the cave is seen the image of a heart over the spot where it is located. The legend was learned by W.E. Rollins, the artist, during a year spent with the Hopi Indians. There are two theories of the origin of the Egyptians. One is that they came from Asia; another that the racial cradle was in the upper Nile region. Heeren, an Egyptologist, believed in the Indian origin of the Egyptians. The discoveries in the Grand Canyon may throw further light on human evolution and prehistoric ages.
  3. Heracleion Find.

    I wonder what else they will find? There are some great photos of some of these statues and steles... http://seriouslyforreal.com/seriously-for-real/heracleion-photos-lost-egyptian-city-revealed-after-1200-years-under-sea/
  4. C.C. Zain and the Sacred Tarot

    C. C. Zain and the Sacred Tarot The most authentic version of the Tarot, and the closest to the original used by Thoth, that is in existence in modern times has got to be the Sacred Tarot brought to us by C.C. Zain. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/C._C._Zain More about Elbert Benjamine- http://www.light.org...ght-lessons.cfm And- http://www.lightofeg...es/Default.aspx
  5. Free Authentic Thoth Tarot Readings

    Most people while at fairs, set ups at the mall, or places like that, have encountered people offering things like palm reading, fortune telling, and tarot card readings. To a lot of people these things may not be interesting, or not worth the money. Most people dont really believe these things are going to help them much or are authentic. Here is the original Tarot. It is different than the version the public is familiar with, which is probably only a few hundred years old at the most, and was probably systemized in its current form, in Europe. Tarot is not meant exactly for fortune telling, but rather, for understanding ones spiritual path, and spiritual develoment. This is the most authentic version available today, and is the closest to the original version systemized by Thoth that exists. Free Thoth Tarot Readings- http://www.atlantis.to/free-tarot.htm
  6. The Pagan Christ

    Here is a documentary by the CBC exploring the similarities between Christianity, Pagan traditions, and the ancient Egyptian religion. Also explored is the theory that Christianity evolved out of the ancient Egyptian religion, and the controversial theory that Jesus did not actually exist. The Pagan Christ-