yuuichi

How did the Ancient Daoists teach sending excess energy/qi to be stored in the lower dantian?

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I’m sure there are a lot of modern teachers teaching how to send excess qi to the lower dantian, but I’m more interested in what the ancient Daoists had to say on the matter. What is the traditional way of sending excess qi flowing through the body to be stored in the lower dantian? Thank you

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I couldn’t find anything understandable which I thought was relevant. Thank you anyway.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, yuuichi said:

I couldn’t find anything understandable which I thought was relevant. Thank you anyway.

 

http://www.academia.edu/1727544/The_Alchemists_Daode_jing

professor Clarke Hudson on Tao Te Ching - as "empty the mind, fill the belly" Neidan (qigong - insert proper fancy Chinese term for better marketing strategies).... daoyin, trance dance shamanism, etc.

 

More details here https://studylib.net/pbIH2

 

Edited by voidisyinyang

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10 hours ago, yuuichi said:

 

I couldn’t find anything understandable [in Neiye] which I thought was relevant. 

 

 

I have been reading Neiye by way of Roth and have not found anything so far ... don't expect to.

 

I think such energy methods belong in the realm where Neidan and other esoteric alchemy practices are found. As suggested by others here, you will likely need to have direct instruction from an accomplished one. 

 

Neiye is almost a more overarching text that relates philosphical Daoism to meditative practices but stops short of energetics.

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24 minutes ago, OldDog said:

 

I have been reading Neiye by way of Roth and have not found anything so far ... don't expect to.

 

I think such energy methods belong in the realm where Neidan and other esoteric alchemy practices are found. As suggested by others here, you will likely need to have direct instruction from an accomplished one. 

 

Neiye is almost a more overarching text that relates philosphical Daoism to meditative practices but stops short of energetics.

 

In the Neiye it says to keep Jing in the heart. Does Jing originate from the heart then? I didn’t know. I thought it was Shen that originated from the heart.

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1 hour ago, yuuichi said:

In the Neiye it says to keep Jing in the heart. Does Jing originate from the heart then? 

 

I don't think so. This is a area of developing interest for me and my understanding is just beginning.

 

Roth makes it clear in his analysis that the term hsin (xin) as heart or mind has broader meaning than just a physical organ, as it is sometimes translated, and often taken in meaning by western readers used to a stricter distinction between matter and energy. Many translators use the term heart-mind as a way of reminding that the term does not necessarily refer to a physical location/organ. So, where it refers to storing ching (jing), it does not literally mean the heart organ. The entire Neiye needs to be understood in this context of broader meanings.

 

Similarly, ching (jing) has broader meanings and implications. Indeed, one of the interesting notions (in Roth's interpretation) is a reciprocating relationship between vital energy and vital essence. This discussion may have direct bearing on your question of where jing originates. 

 

Most of the Neiye has to do with the qualitative aspects of inward cultivation and how to bring about direct apprehension of the Dao.

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Aetherous said:

 

yes - there is discussion of that inscription - in relation to the lower dantian

http://www.academia.edu/32735940/Review_of_In_the_Shadows_of_the_Dao.pdf

 

yes to call it "excess energy" is a misnomer.  - the myelination does store the energy - as the small intestines have more neurons than the heart. But the source of the energy is from non-local that is neither inside the body nor outside the body. So in that sense the lower tantien is a spacetime vortex - a 5D black hole.

So this is described in the training books - but the training tradition goes back to the original human culture - the San Bushmen state the strongest source of N/om (qi) in the body is the small intestines. That training tradition is over 70,000 years old!!

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I cant say i know how the ancients did it, i doubt anyone can answer that exactly but the instructions are said to have survived and been developed on since, correct me if i’m wrong.

I dont have formal Taoist training but i suspect the question entails a few oversimplifications.

 

I think storing energy in the LDT goes hand in hand with two other practices: gathering energy and using energy. Just storing it sounds potentially harmful, compare it to ”loading” a punch with your arm and not releasing it or to fill your lungs to max without ever expelling or replacing more than 25% of it. Strenous and impractical.

 

And to gather and store energy in the body for a certain purpose (yet another important step: what is it for?) it still means you have to have a practice to follow and worked significantly to establish the infrastructure for it.

This, iirc, means to have studied the physical requirements and trained your actual body to a certain level before you incorporate the next steps of developing your ”energy body” for lack of a more precise term.

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@voidisyinyang you say that the small intestines is the source of qi, but the ancient Daoists say the ming men is the source of qi. Also, do you agree that the source of jing is found in the heart?

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There is certainly such a thing as storing Qi. In fact at a certain stage it’s a must - or you’ll be frightening the life out of small animals and children after practice! :) 

 

Trouble is that there are so many milestones before that. It is certainly dangerous and counterproductive to try and store Qi before you’re ready. It’s an intermediate level of practice.

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7 hours ago, yuuichi said:

@voidisyinyang you say that the small intestines is the source of qi, but the ancient Daoists say the ming men is the source of qi. Also, do you agree that the source of jing is found in the heart?

 

So basically meditation and non-western philosophy is mind-body harmonization as natural resonance of reality. It's based on logical inference of the I-thought. So your mind seems to be caught in a closed attachment to physical matter - this is a common Western problem as the West is based on materialistic idealism.

 

So the source of Qi is Qi itself. If you study relativistic quantum physics - this is called the "pilot wave" that is "guiding" reality through "synchronous"  and "primordial time." So the Universe exists within us and we exist within the Universe at the same time.

 

The spiritual ego is the speed of light - our biophotons are coherent lasers. But the light as shen originates from spacetime itself as the source of reality - what is called the void or Emptiness. So inside our body it is the "space" between our thoughts.

 

So jing is actually originated from neurons - jing as "essence" as Yuan Jing is actually NOT material. So this is also called "yin matter" that is the "golden key" - and is "superluminal" - so it is virtual matter from the future. This is how light as gamma radiation then creates particles and antimatter and what's now called "nega-particles" - creates light.

 

So Qi can be yang qi or yin qi - but the yang qi has substance while the yin qi does not. The yin qi is like electrons - since they have a much smaller size than photons. But the thing about Shen is that it has no rest mass - so as the spiritual ego - it is eternal with eternal motion. But on its own - it is a ghost - but only when the Shen is 'Of no Shen" - as Yuan Shen - then it has Motion. So the original human culture - the San Bushmen - call this "ReEntry into Original Creation" - or what is known as "Dreamtime" in Australian Aborigine culture.

 

Quote

 

When t’ai chi is at rest, yang and yin are united;
when t’ai chi is in motion, the two opposing forces separate. Herein
lies the secret of immortality.

The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal (on John Chang).
 
"The whole process is ruled by Spirit....It's movement in 'non-doing' is called Original Spirit." Wang Mu, Foundations of Internal Alchemy.
The primal qi (li yuanqi) ....formless
"Since is it the undivided yin-yang it is called the One Vitality."

 

 
so the Non-doing is turning the light around - in meditation with the eyes closed. The movement is the Yuan Qi that is the pilot wave - from the future. So now the relation to Jing is that Yuan Qi is integrated with  Yuan Shen - since the light is turned around - but it's also integrated with Yuan Jing - since the yuan qi is the energy of the virtual matter.
 

Turn the light or Shen around to bring qi out of the jing - jingqi is Yuan Qi

There is an excellent essay on the connection of philosophical Taoism to religious Neidan training - by Zhang Guangbao

p. 183, originally published 2006, Beijing.

Inner alchemy from philosophical Taoism.

So he makes the very crucial insight that "yuan qi" actually is "jingqi" - and he cites the evidence for this.

So just as I have argued in my pdf - the alchemy practice is the shen turned around so it is "below" the jing - thereby creating the qi - and this is the eternal process.  (Fire under Water creates Steam)

According to him [Liu Huayang], the prenatal jing and the prenatal shen were identical....In the moment of chaos [prenatal shen], there is movement in peace [prenatal jing].
That is how the yuan qi then manifests, after the lower tan tien is filled up. p. 249
Zhang, Guangbao states indeed - this "jingqi" is the primordial cosmic yuanqi - from this process of the shen being contained internally along with the jing to bring out the qi energy.

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The only thing I know of that comes close is about not leaking energy from this area and that is guarding the yin.  I dont know where i read it but when thoughts settle and there become an inner quiet, the energies naturally settle and there is a sinking feeling in the belly that feels as though energies are kept there.  

 

This is more about immortality than storing excess qi.  Also there isnt a source of qi as such, the whole of you is qi manifest from the Dao, or rather not from but as you.  It may help to know the reason behind the OP question.

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Posted (edited)

Internal Alchemy is the "alchemy" of playing energy tricks whilst you slowly die and don't quite get it.
It is indeed ancient.

 

What has "storing energy" or energy per se have anything to do with anything.
An ancient Daoist if he is a Daoist will be concerned in sinking into the truth of non-action and flow.   What has that to do with cultivating energy.
It's more like recognition of his truth and the truth of existence, it is recognition.
Any "energy work" must be precluded and postcluded by recogntion otherwise it is simply more monkey-accumulation of worldly possessions of a subtle but mortal kind.

 

 

Edited by rideforever

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