thelerner

What is spirituality

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8 hours ago, manitou said:

 

They tend to be Us.  

We are Groot. 

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Salaam,

 

I liked the first two opening paragraphs in this page while I was searching for Rumi's quotes:

 

1. The image of the restless human being – who travels every path searching for the Highest, moved by an insatiable thirst for the Absolute and animated by the desire to meet the One – is fitting for the Muslim mystic. To enter the mystical dimension, explains Giuseppe Scattolin – one of the greatest Sufism’s scholars – means, “to take seriously the fundamental aspiration of the human for the Absolute, to test it in ones daily existence, to bet ones own life on it.” 

2. Therefore, “mystic” is not something unreal or imaginary, but something hidden in the depths of the human being – from the Greek myô, which means “to veil the eyes, to conceal a secret.” Thus, a Sufi is a pilgrim who has made God’s quest the ultimate purpose of his life.

 

Who are the Sufis?

 

Spiritual ---> the ability to see beyond the physical, to open up one's consciousness to the greater reality...and live by it.

 

:)

 

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Energy work is not necessarily spiritual.   Many energies are produced by the Source which cascade out into Creation, and there are many fables of people who glamoured up their old haggy faces with magic energies.   That's not much spiritual.
What is born will die, and spirituality is about returning to the uncarved block, to the unborn, which means returning to the Source itself not indulging in energies that flowed out of.
Qigongs are of two types, those that are magic power flowing out, and those that teach you merging with the Source ... which is the only gong to be skilled in.

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13 hours ago, rideforever said:

Energy work is not necessarily spiritual.   Many energies are produced by the Source which cascade out into Creation, and there are many fables of people who glamoured up their old haggy faces with magic energies.   That's not much spiritual.
What is born will die, and spirituality is about returning to the uncarved block, to the unborn, which means returning to the Source itself not indulging in energies that flowed out of.
Qigongs are of two types, those that are magic power flowing out, and those that teach you merging with the Source ... which is the only gong to be skilled in.

You are not merging. You are aligning your energy with Source.

 

When you talk about many energies, you are actually talking about the many thoughts of humans, of which every single thought that has ever been thought still exists today. These things will never become real. 

 

If you wanna become less, align with all these human thoughts, and you will become confused. 

 

Then let go of mind and follow your heart. Feel your way to the greater ever expanding truth of now and new and more and better, forever, ever expandingly, guiding you always from where you now are to all that you have become as the eternal call of Source. And you will never get it done. That is why there is no end to the flow of the life force that is joy. 

Edited by Everything
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5 hours ago, Everything said:

You are aligning your energy with Source.

You can align all you like, but until you merge you will not reach cessation.

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On 12/1/2018 at 11:56 PM, thelerner said:

What is your definition of spirituality?  Its sign posts and goals?  

What is a spiritual person?  

 

 

On my phone now so I'll answer later. 

 

 

 

I think spirituality refers to meaning behind every appearance. A spiritual person strive to find the deep meaning behind every event of life and eventually to become one with this mystery of life. By this definition a spiritual person is not necessarily practice tai chi and yoga or does not use crystals, orb, manta, etc. but he is living a meaningful life.

 

p.s. In person language spirituality is equal to "Manaviat" which roughly translate a meaningfulness. And there is a bunch of peoms that talks about in in their poems like this beautiful verse from Rumi:
ای برادر قصه چون پیمانه است
معنی اندر وی مثال دانه است
دانه معنی بگیرد مرد عقل
ننگرد پیمانه را گر گشت نقل

which roughly translates as:

Every story (philosophy, tradition, teaching, etc.) is like a plate

Meaning is like the food inside the plate

Wise man takes the food

But leaves the plate behind, no matter it's an ordinary plate or a majestic one

 

So if one can reach to that ultimate meaning he can leave everything else behind

Edited by ben kaf
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Not long ago man had to be a bloody thirsty m**** f*****ing killer in order to survive.
Now we are trying to evolve again using our crude viscious hunting cunning minds, into the dimension of consciousness in order to bring this sh** back home, in permanence.
Great story.
Who has enough courage to take the flag over the line ?
To reconcile the killer with the Light.

www.jpg

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1 hour ago, rideforever said:

Now we are trying to evolve again using our crude viscious hunting cunning minds, into the dimension of consciousness in order to bring this sh** back home, in permanence.

 

who has a crude vicious hunting, cunning mind?

when has this mind been used,,,has anyone here experienced this mind.

 

It might be said the problem is that most have not experienced this mind,  trying to evolve from an illusion of what they never experienced.

Edited by windwalker
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I think i've been at most ankle deep in such a mind, and even that was almost enough to get swept away for good. Quite the eye opening experiences to say the least. Not recommended for general use, though, depending on how comfortable one is with the potential of vacationing at a correctional facility.

 

Sheer power and wit of "primitive" way is drastically underestimated, and we resort to musings like: There is no way puny humans could have built those pyramids, etc., they must have gotten help from extraterrestrials!

 

Attempting to put it in spiritual perspective: Whereas today we may each be holding a candle flame inside, keeping it safe from the cold and calculating world, there was a time when it was the inverse situation. Our hearts and nerves were as steel tempered by the conflagration breathed daily by gods of old.

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6 hours ago, rideforever said:

Not long ago man had to be a bloody thirsty m**** f*****ing killer in order to survive.
Now we are trying to evolve again using our crude viscious hunting cunning minds, into the dimension of consciousness in order to bring this sh** back home, in permanence.
Great story.
Who has enough courage to take the flag over the line ?
To reconcile the killer with the Light.

 

 

Interesting concept, rideforever.  I remember back 39 years ago when I was in the depths of my alcoholism, when my mind was dark, judgmental, cunning and hurtful.  It is only going through that and finally recovering that caused my evolution to the light.  What was seemingly horrible, the day I had to admit to myself that I was an alcoholic, was the worst thing I could imagine at the time.  Now, I realize that day of acceptance was the best day of my life.

 

The reversal toward the light can and does happen to folks all over the world.  It takes what it takes.  Thanks for that perspective, friend.

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I was just reading a story about modern tribe in Alaska.  They were hunters, willing to use modern tools, but it was very very hard life, starvation and deprivation were a constant threat.  They used dogs and sleds to get around on the treacherous tundra.  They were in no way blood thirsty m**therf*ckers.   The hunt was spiritual, the animals were spiritual.  A polar bear killed had special rituals around it so that its soul could find solace easier.   Special ways of preparing it afterward to show respect. 

 

Hunting and the need for meat did not make them any less spiritual, nor less practical, when push came to shove.. they'd prize and love their dogs, but also ate them if needed, and there were hints at cannibalism, not so far back.  There lifestyle, so close to nature had huge advantages when it came to 'spirituality'. 

 

Maybe lack of spirituality is eating without thanks.  Disregarding the chain of life that brought us food.  Missing the divinity within the natural order, which they, the tribe did not. 

 

addon> 'civilization' has been a touchy proposition for the last 3,000 years maybe..a short time versus the 100,000 or so years mankind's been around.  I'm hoping that for the most part our ancestors led somewhat spiritual lives.   Looking for greater meaning seems to be hard wired into us.  Though close quarters does not bring out the best in us.  We are not great hunters, its only by banding together, caring for each other, that we've survived.

Edited by thelerner
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i've been wanting to check this thread out

here is a twelve minute version of spirituality

Spoiler

 

 

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On 01/12/2018 at 6:11 PM, thelerner said:

What is your definition of spirituality?  Its sign posts and goals?  

What is a spiritual person?  

 

 

On my phone now so I'll answer later. 

 

 

Spirituality is the process in between living as I AM (the ego state) and that which you truly are.

A spiritual person is someone who is awake to who they are.

However they can be misguided, and they can also be awake but their ego takes ownership of it. They can get tattoos of the buddha and go around telling people they are spiritual and get nowhere. But that is also their choice and not right or wrong, as it is also egoic to judge them for it.

This is my opinion and I could be incorrect also.

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The I AM state is the awareness that "I AM God".  I AM the Intelligence.  I AM the cosmic consciousness.  It's anything but the ego state, to my understanding.  The ego state is what gives us the illusion of separation.  The I AM state is the inner awareness that all is One.

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On 12/5/2018 at 1:03 PM, rideforever said:

Not long ago man had to be a bloody thirsty m**** f*****ing killer in order to survive.
Now we are trying to evolve again using our crude viscious hunting cunning minds, into the dimension of consciousness in order to bring this sh** back home, in permanence.
Great story.
Who has enough courage to take the flag over the line ?
To reconcile the killer with the Light.

www.jpg

It's just a game. You shoot, not to kill, but to win and bow and hug it out in respect and appreciation after the fight is over. Because without the opponent, there is no fight. It has always been just a game of challenger and challenged. And no challenge takes place unless the challenge is accepted. Animals don't hold grudges.

Yes the game is limitted, and there will always be far better games to play. But if you want another game, look for the other game which is of more serenity. More peaceful. We are not bound by the past, because we always move forward. And evolve. To evolve back in time requires simply the unconditional love for the vision of revissiting the past with a greater appreciation that you have found for it from your always here and now perspective and point of view.

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On 12/5/2018 at 8:04 AM, rideforever said:

You can align all you like, but until you merge you will not reach cessation.

Yeah, that is what I said to you aswell. You will never end. There is no end. The journey is what matters, and the journey is eternal.

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On 12/6/2018 at 12:56 AM, manitou said:

The I AM state is the awareness that "I AM God".  I AM the Intelligence.  I AM the cosmic consciousness.  It's anything but the ego state, to my understanding.  The ego state is what gives us the illusion of separation.  The I AM state is the inner awareness that all is One.

You are experiencing yourself in all the different ways that you can, forever. And knowing who you are not, allows you to know more clearly who you are aswell. If there was nothing outside of you, you would not have the ability to be conscious of self or "other." So there is great value in the variety of the contrast through which you carve out your own unique and personal preferences. The problem only occurs, when one tries to look for their preferences in the contrasting variety that inspired those personal preferences. The "unwanted" reality is not to be dwelled upon, but to inspire you to move towards your greater desire, which in turn will yield new contrast and variety to inspire further expansion of clarity and knowing. And often people look at their reality and think that it is all there is, and so they give up on their wants and preferences, and so they never create the life they were eager to create here before they came into this physical environment. And unintentionally and unknowingly they hold on to the very thing they say they don't want. But this physical reality we perceive has been created from the past. So what you see here is actually not present tense reality. This is actually old reality, for the purpose of inspiring a greater desire than the one we previously had the capability of realising for ourselves. Often people have to die, before the dream can become a reality, and so every new reality only causes people to dream untill they die. However, if one just allows themselves to dream with more deliberate focus, then this power and momentum that comes with consistency accelerates the translation of the dreams into reality. Thus, one can have a dream in this reality and live it in the same reality aswell. And it is ALWAYS like that, eternally. The expansion never stops and the flow never ceases to flow. And if you move with it, unconditionally, you have an enjoyable experience and ride. And if you stop, thinking you are not worthy of the very thing you have realised yourself, you are blocking a current that stems from the Source of All Creation, that is infinite in nature and expansiveness. So the current beats up on you, which in turn yields greater resistance and more pain and suffering. While if you let go with the flow, now all those old grudges dissapear and you lose everything, but you thereby gain everything. You lose what you thought you needed, but didn't need. You gain what you thought you didn't want, but you actually need in order to be happy and live a fulfilled and happy life, through which you have to ability to create your life, rather than regurgitate the life that is already here. In harmonic resonance with the natural current of well-being that is the stream of infinite and eternal existance whom eternity hinges upon your valuable expansion of desire realised after desire! There is nothing greater in value than the value of who you are. For without you, existance would not be complete! It would not be ALL that is! So you have no choice but to awaken fully the all of the desires that have been realised by you, when you die. But more and more, people are beginning to realise that they don't have to die in order to wake up to all that they have become. And that is why we are here, on this location of planet earth, where the party is at. This is currently the leading edge of creation. This is the big happening. Right here and now.

Most people think they are being left out of the party, but they are not. To give an analogy to what is actually happening is like this. They are at a party, a huge party. And their vision is completely veiled, and they are dazed. And they have a phone in their hands. And they look at their phone. And on the phone there is a message. The message is an invitation to the party.

They find it hard to believe that we're all infinitely and eternally worthy beings. As they look at their phone, their mind races through all of their life experiences that they've had, of which all of it has led to this moment. And they think or believe that they are stuck in the past, unable to allow themselves to move forward, with the deservingness that is already theirs. But in reality, they're not stuck. Infact, in reality, they are already at the party that they've been trying to reach their entire life. And this party is the joy that never ends and is eternal in nature. And unconditional in deservingness.

As you look at your physical reality, in its now current state, that is like looking at your phone and thinking about the past. This present physical reality has been created by those who came before, it has nothing to do with who you are and have allowed yourself to become and what you have come here for to create as an infinitely and eternally and unconditionally worthy being and creator of life experience after another. And the side effect are that physical manifestation will occur, yes. But those have never been the primary goal. The only goal that has ever been the goal is the joy of the endless and infinite and eternal and never ending and ever expanding journey that is existance coming to know itself in all the ways that it can in all of the freedom that it infinitely and eternally always has been, is and always will be.

You are so free, you can choose bondage. And if you realise you don't wanna do that, you just don't do that anymore. That's it. And then there's nothing left again, but the purity of the truth of the eternally worthy nature of your being. Nothing serious has ever been going on. There has never been a vulnerability of your eternal nature, never an idea that something can go wrong. Just the idea and knowingness that you can choose to experience AS IF something has gone wrong, but that never means something has actually gone wrong. For the well-being abounds eternally and infinitely, and thus immense powerful beings such as the physical humans of this planet have chosen this experience of limitation, as a challenge, for they knew that they could handle it and they knew, that as with their eternally worthy nature of their knowing, that absolutely nothing but good could thus come out of it. And then you have a completely new plateau of joys available to you the height of which has never been reached before, ever, in all of creation, even as all of creation looks on to you, in eager expectation, for their holding the knowingness that you have left behind FOR YOU eternally, so that you have a home to return to, after the long journey. And that home is already here and now, but it is subtle, and part of your greater consciousness, that you will allow to flow fully through you, either in this life, or after. And I fully believe that this life is fully capable of supporting your highest joy, in all the ways that it can. Without any falter. Because when you die, all times exist in the same 1 space. You don't have to die to already know that the future you seek, is already right here and now fully contained within the greater consciousness of all that you truely are, and that you have the full capability in this physical environment, that if you can conceive it in your mind, you can create it, without exception. You just have to understand that the creation is already done, by your greater being. And your task is only one and singular. To align your deliberate focus with that of your highest conceivable joy, by virtue of your heart's guidance system that helps you know wether you are focused in alignment or not with the knowing of your greater being that holds all of the greatness that you have realised for yourself in vibrational escrow, For you, eternally. And beams it out to you infinitely and eternally, always here and now, where all times and all places always exist. And you translate the vibrational alignment/misalignment between your physical body and your greater "soul" consciousness through your most sophisticated sense of emotions, which forever help you and guide you always without falter and in the most meaningful way that is possible for you.

The expansion is not in the structure of existance, but the expansion is of the consciousness which is the perspective that existance has of it self, that expands eternally and infinite into more and greater and better, eternally. For the freedom is boundless and the speed is infinite and thus, here you are, perceiving yourself in this unique way that you now perceive, and you do this so effortlessly, that you don't even know you're doing it. That's how powerful you are. So powerful, you can create the experience for yourself of being powerless. And there is nothing you need to do in order to regain your power. There is only everything that you need to stop do, in order to allow yourself to be who it is you already are as an eternally worthy and blessed being of infinite creation. There is great ease and love and appreciation and joy in allowing yourself to fully be who it is you truely already are.

Edited by Everything
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To fully answer a question such as this, a real look at what words are, should be undertaken, for spirituality is just a word to describe something...  

 

Words are symbolic.  As symbols, they contain power, a kind of mirror like quality that captures and reflects what something appears to be and what something actually is.  Which is why a perfect square represents a balance of forces, a triangle represents anything with only 3 sides... etc.  Words are a little more complex, because they have an origin that once determined what the meaning of the word was, but they change over time.  So naturally spirituality once meant one thing and now means another... 

 

But, in short the word spirituality simply refers to one's spirit and all of the knowledge of it and how it behaves and how it is related to everything in existence.  Hence, why people say things like.... from a "spiritual" point of view, etc.   Mostly these days everyone thinks of spirituality as being associated with the God concept or religion...

 

...what spirituality really means will be different for everyone at different times throughout the entire course of existence, simply because it is a word which has a meaning that will change...

 

But, this all points to the deeper question.....  of----        why is it important?  

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1 hour ago, Jadespear said:

 

But, this all points to the deeper question.....  of----        why is it important?  

 

Now that's the question.  But we have this darn thing inside that seems unsatisfied and keeps looking for an answer.  Otherwise we wouldn't be on this website.

 

Everything - you've really given this some thought, haven't you?  I'll need to read that one several times.  That's quite a brain you've got there! :huh:

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2 hours ago, Jadespear said:

...what spirituality really means will be different for everyone at different times throughout the entire course of existence, simply because it is a word which has a meaning that will change...

 

But, this all points to the deeper question.....  of----        why is it important?  

As Jung liked to quote-

Bidden or not

God is present

 

 

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9 hours ago, Everything said:

 

 

Ungrounded imagination.
If you are unable to separate yourself from your environment you are simply totally unconscious, that is the definition.
If your plan is to carry on doing more of your crazy s*** then ... 
My instinct tells me you are simply trying to get rid of yourself in a fancy sounding way.

And then there are the high peaks of emotional excitement you describe.
Dangerously ungrounded.

 

Edited by rideforever

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3 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

Ungrounded imagination.
If you are unable to separate yourself from your environment you are simply totally unconscious, that is the definition.
If your plan is to carry on doing more of your crazy s*** then ... 
My instinct tells me you are simply trying to get rid of yourself in a fancy sounding way.

And then there are the high peaks of emotional excitement you describe.
Dangerously ungrounded.

 

I appreciate your concern, but I assure you, there is absolutely no danger involved in my life :lol:

I almost feel honored for you even thinking that there is. :wub:

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12 hours ago, Jadespear said:

To fully answer a question such as this, a real look at what words are, should be undertaken, for spirituality is just a word to describe something...  

 

Words are symbolic.  As symbols, they contain power, a kind of mirror like quality that captures and reflects what something appears to be and what something actually is.  Which is why a perfect square represents a balance of forces, a triangle represents anything with only 3 sides... etc.  Words are a little more complex, because they have an origin that once determined what the meaning of the word was, but they change over time.  So naturally spirituality once meant one thing and now means another... 

 

But, in short the word spirituality simply refers to one's spirit and all of the knowledge of it and how it behaves and how it is related to everything in existence.  Hence, why people say things like.... from a "spiritual" point of view, etc.   Mostly these days everyone thinks of spirituality as being associated with the God concept or religion...

 

...what spirituality really means will be different for everyone at different times throughout the entire course of existence, simply because it is a word which has a meaning that will change...

 

But, this all points to the deeper question.....  of----        why is it important?  

Exactly, this spiritual essence that is the non-physical greater consciousness of every single individual thing in existance is related to by every single individual consciousness in their own unique way. And in those differences there are also many similarities. The cells of your body all have billions of individual consciousness, and they all know exactly what they need to know, when they need to know it. Everything has a present tence spirituality to it. And they are all guided by this greater consciousness of their spiritual essence. In the same way that you are guided by your spiritual essence, in your emotional energy relationship with your greater spirit or soul. This relationship is a very subtle thing. These emotions, and infact, every experience you have, is an indication of the current relationship with your own Soul, or Spirit, or Greater Non-Physical Consciousness a small part of which is focused here through your body.

It is like a hot and cold game. You move a certain direction, feel cold, colder. Then you turn around, and feel hotter then colder, then you fine tune your direction and you feel hotter and hotter, untill your vibrational alignment with your highest purpose in life, that your Soul is constantly guiding you towards, becomes more aligned, more high frequency, more fine tuned, more sharp and intense and more pure, and then you feel the endless supply of inspiration, wisdom, and knowledge that you have aligned yourself with for the purpose of realising it more consciously by you in your physical being, for the sole purpose of your very own unique and personal fulfillment and joy in life. You become a joyous being who knows the journey is the purpose and you then enjoy it in the way it was ment to be enjoyed, with succes with every step along the way.

Spirit is what guides by giving meaning, that meaning is co-created with you, by your valuable unique life experiences, not only this life, but even what has come before it. Your spirit is non-physical, for the purpose of addopting the best of all that you have come to realise you want for yourself, and become more of it, unconditionally, and thus then is capable of reminding you of it, constantly, 24/7, and is doing so constantly, 24/7, through your valuable guidance system that you feel as emotion. And this greater Soul of who you are, is infact, who you really are. If you were not it, you would not be able to feel any emotion at all. Everything would just be what it is, without necessarily being called to any particular direction. Humans often ignore their emotions, then when things go very wrong in their life, they use this extended guidance of their physical reality which now becomes an external reminder of the pain that they have always felt inside, as their own personal unique guidance system in their life. This is ofcourse not necessary, if you understand that your emotions can lead you on much more direct trajectory of alignment with your greater soul and spirit essence and unique personal purpose in life, with allot more leaway for personal fine tuning, in a more enjoyable way. It may seem like a longer route from your minds point of view, like a deviation from the path. But what the physical mind does not know, and what the spirit or soul can see and know clearly, is often that that round about path that has all the curves in it, is actually the fastest route. Not only the fastest, the most enjoyable route. Not only the most enjoyable, but also most supporting of the journey ahead. Not only most supporting, but most preparing of the desitnation ahead, which will yield yet another greater journey of even greater joys beyond that which the mind will ever or ever will need to be capable of knowing, for that is not what the mind is designed for. The mind is designed to enjoy the journey that is in front that the soul and spirit has layed out for you, that you have co-created with it. You have birthed all those desires and preferences, that your Soul has become and the universe has expanded as a result of it. But often, humans are unaware of the fact that they are co-creators of their own path in life. So when they begin to trust their emotions, they will recognize and remember, through their own life experiences, which is the greatest of all teachers, that they are a vital and essential part of equation that is their physical life living in alignment and harmony with their soul's spiritual essence. And no amount of words can replace that knowing.

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On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:54 PM, zerostao said:

i've been wanting to check this thread out

here is a twelve minute version of spirituality

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Zerostao - that might be the most exquisite composition and decomposition of the alignment of particles ever.  Thanks so much for posting it.

 

I got several things out of that:

 

-  The Title of the production - "Escape Velocity".  What is velocity if not the joinder of time and space?  This production seemed to focus on the is-ness, although it took 12 minutes to view it in the passage of time.  But I can't help but think the producers intended it to be in the Now, but limited by our illusory perception of time.

 

-  when a person came into alignment of the dancing dots, it reminded me of the development of an embryo.  How the only thing that separates whether a cell is going to be a hair cell, or a stomach cell, or a bone cell, it's merely a question of the intelligence of alignment.  Otherwise, the substance for all cells is the same but for alignment.

 

-  it included the development of consciousness, and of questioning, and of how the dots develop the ability to be cohesive in their desire to express the form it has become.

 

- the floating face that appeared periodically reminded me of the One Mind, the Dao, which was always observing.  And which we all have in the background of our psyches, the same One Mind.

 

- the disassembly of molecules and cessation of movement in the body upon death, the original dots returning to their chaos prior to form.

 

- The obvious questioning of the woman at the end, probably wondering 'Who am I?'

 

- The best part of all - when the voice at the end said it was going to another observation point.  Who knows if we're sharing space with other entities that aren't within the range of our sensory perception.  Buddha-lands, as recounted in the Sutras?

 

What an excellent production!

 

 

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