Vajra Fist

Why do so few qigong masters radiate vitality?

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For all the promises of qigong and tai chi, I can't think of a single qigong master that radiates good health and vitality. 

 

They usually have sallow, pinched features, or have dark auras. Many of them are also overweight or look in poor health. There is a lot of yin chi, and the most powerful among them inspire fear rather than radiate the warmth of compassion. Indeed, I dare not even name examples, for fear they could seek retribution.

 

By contrast, when I look at people who practice yoga regularly, they have abundant qi, a glowing complexion and open expressions. Similarly, when I am in the presence of a Buddhist master I feel so comfortable, like I am with a member of close family.

 

I'm probably going to get roasted for this, but I am not just being a troll. I'm genuinely interested if others feel the same, and what the reason might be.

 

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40 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

[...]

 

I'm probably going to get roasted for this, but I am not just being a troll. I'm genuinely interested if others feel the same, and what the reason might be.

 

 

One may ponder about the general effectiveness of qigong and taichi ...

...but if at some point, one starts to think that a legion of dark yin-qi wizards has taken over the industry, that's just too much :P

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Vajra Fist said:

For all the promises of qigong and tai chi, I can't think of a single qigong master that radiates good health and vitality. 

 

They usually have sallow, pinched features, or have dark auras. Many of them are also overweight or look in poor health. There is a lot of yin chi, and the most powerful among them inspire fear rather than radiate the warmth of compassion. Indeed, I dare not even name examples, for fear they could seek retribution.

 

By contrast, when I look at people who practice yoga regularly, they have abundant qi, a glowing complexion and open expressions. Similarly, when I am in the presence of a Buddhist master I feel so comfortable, like I am with a member of close family.

 

I'm probably going to get roasted for this, but I am not just being a troll. I'm genuinely interested if others feel the same, and what the reason might be.

 

 In

https://muse.jhu.edu/book/8256

The taoist teaching mix with

Buddhist martial art

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Yoga (meaning asana) : well it can be quite tough and work the body out, and also it's popular so you feel you are doing something that is judged good according to society which is important for your self-image.

 

Buddhists : hmm .... well many of them are sort of braindead-awareness-robots and have stupid smiles stuck to their head, they are trying to suicide themselves in new ways

 

Qigong / Taichi : well it's clearly degenerated with all the softy kissy kissy things that are happening, yoga is much tougher and with yoga you have to change your clothes afterwards ... qigong, well I can do in my normal clothes with not much bother .... but yoga is also quite braindead, you don't really feeling any energy or even your body the way it is done mostly.

 

Yoga / Buddhism are two popular ways of inebriating yourself, and maybe inebriation is a good solution for a premature ape soul living in a bad planet ... maybe it's an ideal approach, like putting yourself into stasis for this lifetime.

 

It's easy to have a nice aura when you have ejected all the material you are supposed to work on, and sit there with a baby face smiling stupidly when the entire Tibetan culture was destroyed on your watch, Mr Dalai Lama.   
Ok, compassion now .....  yes we all have to learn and that was an expensive lesson .... so learn !!!

 

Also a question of intelligence .... dumb people are very happy with brainless solutions.   For instance in Kundalini Yoga 3HO you are taught to deal with trauma using inebriation breathing then saying Satnam Satnam Satnam Satnam Satnam Satnam Satnam Vaheguru.   Which is basically inebriating yourself then calling on God to fix everything.   Whereas if you do qigong you are trying to resolve the energetic basis for trauma, with bioenergetics you are trying to subconsciously resolve the trauma, in both cases making contributions to the process with intelligence.

 

However another solution is to say .... we are all so goddam stupid here that I shall give up trying to understand anything and .... SatnamSatnamSatnamSatnamSatnamSatnamSatnam Vageguru.   Maybe there is intelligence in understanding your stupidity.

 

Anyway, find your own people because God makes many kind of people.

 

It is very good to look at how badly screwed up the bodies of teachers are, their own disastrous life stories including car crashes and being beaten up, and whether their hair is dark. 

 

For instance there is a Dayan teacher called Hui Liu who I notice is happy has dark hair wears beautiful clothes and makes very fine artwork in the Chinese style.   These are excellent reasons to follow her.   Some Western Dayan students have very complicated technical guidance for Dayan ... but their hair is white and no artwork.   So ....   But then again I am not sure if Hui Liu's centre is making enough money to survive long-term.

But then again ... if you work hard and make real courageous efforts ... that could make your hair white prematurely !!!

 

So .... choose what is right for you.

 

Peace - people talk about peace a lot.  What for ?  People don't want peace, they want sex and travel to palm lined beaches.  They want love and to be loved.   They want excitement.   Who wants peace ?
But ... it is also true peace is nice.
 

Anyway it's good to get enlightened.

 

Edited by rideforever
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2 hours ago, rideforever said:

For instance there is a Dayan teacher called Hui Liu who I notice is happy has dark hair wears beautiful clothes and makes very fine artwork in the Chinese style.   These are excellent reasons to follow her.   Some Western Dayan students have very complicated technical guidance for Dayan ... but their hair is white and no artwork.  

 

So it's a question of how diligently you practice? Most western teachers don't practice that well?

Edited by Vajra Fist

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1 hour ago, rideforever said:

Yoga (meaning asana) : well it can be quite tough and work the body out, and also it's popular so you feel you are doing something that is judged good according to society which is important for your self-image.

 

Buddhists : hmm .... well many of them are sort of braindead-awareness-robots and have stupid smiles stuck to their head, they are trying to suicide themselves in new ways

 

Qigong / Taichi : well it's clearly degenerated with all the softy kissy kissy things that are happening, yoga is much tougher and with yoga you have to change your clothes afterwards ... qigong, well I can do in my normal clothes with not much bother .... but yoga is also quite braindead, you don't really feeling any energy or even your body the way it is done mostly.

 

Yoga / Buddhism are two popular ways of inebriating yourself, and maybe inebriation is a good solution for a premature ape soul living in a bad planet ... maybe it's an ideal approach, like putting yourself into stasis for this lifetime.

 

It's easy to have a nice aura when you have ejected all the material you are supposed to work on, and sit there with a baby face smiling stupidly when the entire Tibetan culture was destroyed on your watch, Mr Dalai Lama.   
Ok, compassion now .....  yes we all have to learn and that was an expensive lesson .... so learn !!!

 

Also a question of intelligence .... dumb people are very happy with brainless solutions.   For instance in Kundalini Yoga 3HO you are taught to deal with trauma using inebriation breathing then saying Satnam Satnam Satnam Satnam Satnam Satnam Satnam Vaheguru.   Which is basically inebriating yourself then calling on God to fix everything.   Whereas if you do qigong you are trying to resolve the energetic basis for trauma, with bioenergetics you are trying to subconsciously resolve the trauma, in both cases making contributions to the process with intelligence.

 

However another solution is to say .... we are all so goddam stupid here that I shall give up trying to understand anything and .... SatnamSatnamSatnamSatnamSatnamSatnamSatnam Vageguru.   Maybe there is intelligence in understanding your stupidity.

 

Anyway, find your own people because God makes many kind of people.

 

It is very good to look at how badly screwed up the bodies of teachers are, their own disastrous life stories including car crashes and being beaten up, and whether their hair is dark. 

 

For instance there is a Dayan teacher called Hui Liu who I notice is happy has dark hair wears beautiful clothes and makes very fine artwork in the Chinese style.   These are excellent reasons to follow her.   Some Western Dayan students have very complicated technical guidance for Dayan ... but their hair is white and no artwork.   So ....   But then again I am not sure if Hui Liu's centre is making enough money to survive long-term.

But then again ... if you work hard and make real courageous efforts ... that could make your hair white prematurely !!!

 

So .... choose what is right for you.

 

Peace - people talk about peace a lot.  What for ?  People don't want peace, they want sex and travel to palm lined beaches.  They want love and to be loved.   They want excitement.   Who wants peace ?
But ... it is also true peace is nice.
 

Anyway it's good to get enlightened.

 

Time to see a doctor? Check it out:

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/grumpy-old-man-syndrome-a-medical-condition/news-story/e6978fd2c147597d528b41b852794e60

 

 

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I think modern qigong (taiji included under that) isn't a workout. People who exercise tend to look better, so qigong practitioners should simply add real exercise into their routines. They should do a balanced routine of non-intense cardio and resistance training.
 

With qigong, there's not mind training and the cultivation of goodness like Buddhism has. So if a qigong practitioner were to add Buddhist training to their practices, they'd end up radiating that personable warmth. Or any other kind of cultivation of love, kindness, compassion, etc, would do basically the same thing. If you practice being warm toward others, you will end up being warm toward others...you are what you practice.

It's actually important to cultivate such things intentionally when you open up energetically, because your field and energy is increased compared to others. A normal person thinking the typical negative thoughts that we all have from time to time has less negativity than a practitioner who is thinking those exact same thoughts. So, there's an imperative to elevate ourselves as we advance...or else we get negative results.


Speaking of being open energetically...I think there's too much focus on feeling sensations and having experiences, rather than genuinely cultivating healthfulness. I prefer more physical types of qigong, and think ones which cause strong qi sensations (aberrations of the nervous system) and/or cause a disconnection of qi or spirit from the body can be damaging...my view is that health is when the spirit is embodied, and the person feels perfectly normal. Some practitioners might think that feeling abnormal from practices is a sign that things are working, but I think it can potentially be a sign of the cultivation of abnormality.

 

Imagine, on the other hand, if you were feeling a little bit off and then you did practices that made you feel good again and restored you...at least personally, that's more of what I'm interested in.

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Well yi jin jing was developed for a reason. Of course yi jin jing is not hatha yoga but it is somewhat close to it. I'm very glad I followed Damo Mitchell's advice about 4 years ago when he said yoga should take about 30% of the practice. By extension, not yoga as such but stretching, engaging the whole connective tissue lines along the body in a targeted and mindful way.

 

I'm not sure how OP defines qigong; but if it is a set of movements designed to activate movement of the post natal qi in the body, it is obviously far from being from being even remotely enough if practised on its own.

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I see this as side-effect of the fact that most Qigong is missing too much.

 

Most are just showing the most basic exercises and nothing else.

 

Many do not even seem to understand those.

 

Some do show the medicine that goes with this, correctly knowing the differences, for example, between 8 extraordinary meridians and 12 organ channels. Most have no idea. 

 

But even medicine is missing too much about living and functioning and diet for Qigong and Neigong trainings.

 

And so these are all missing from most Qigong now.

 

No teacher I am seeing with books and online can help with this, because they themselves are missing it - didn't learn this.

 

Serious student needs to be able to find missing parts and re-assemble these practices for themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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I think there are several reasons for the OP's observation -

- Our expectations are not always satisfied, or realistic

- True masters don't often publish videos of their practice

- Can the radiation of vitality be transmitted through low quality video? I've seen video of masters and met them personally and the experience of personal presence is a whole different ballgame

- Qigong and taiji masters are still human, they live, they get sick, and they die

 

No question IME that these practices offer profound benefits and enhance vitality but such benefits are best assessed through personal practice.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

I dare not even name examples

I would be interested to hear examples with your observations of them. 

I am sure there will be people who disagree, others who agree, but it would be interesting and get to the heart of the matter.

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47 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

It hasn`t been my experience that Qi Gung masters are lacking in vitality.

 

If you think that is "vitality", then OK.

 

I think we would need to define what "vitality" could be.

 

By old standards, this would mean "self-sufficient", in the sense of not requiring any assistance to live - no hospitals or professional care-takers. Able to freely GIVE assistance to others.

 

So anyone with sickness or cancer, mental problems, etc - no.

 

Curing these in others - yes.

 

And ability to do what one wants to without experiencing "obstacles".

 

That means never reason to complain.

 

Just "gratitude" for all - even "bad", even "good" - they have transcended this.

 

That means no "enemies".

 

These are something like the qualities of healthy and vital developed people in old times.

 

We could list many more.

 

But we cannot find these easily today in people we see, even "teachers".

 

Because that part is missing from most people's studies, how to achieve this.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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1 hour ago, rideforever said:

I would be interested to hear examples with your observations of them. 

I am sure there will be people who disagree, others who agree, but it would be interesting and get to the heart of the matter.

 

I'd rather not mention names, so as not to offend anyone. I know some people on here consider them their masters and have great respect for them. If you're curious who I had in mind please pm me.

 

1 hour ago, steve said:

I think there are several reasons for the OP's observation -

- Our expectations are not always satisfied, or realistic

- True masters don't often publish videos of their practice

- Can the radiation of vitality be transmitted through low quality video? I've seen video of masters and met them personally and the experience of personal presence is a whole different ballgame

- Qigong and taiji masters are still human, they live, they get sick, and they die

 

No question IME that these practices offer profound benefits and enhance vitality but such benefits are best assessed through personal practice.

 

 

 

This is an excellent point, and it is true. My experience in person with qigong masters is indeed limited. But I do believe this can be transmitted through the screen. I've listened to dozens of dharma lectures in which I've felt the qi field of the teacher, the quiesence I can only liken to fresh snowfall. I've never felt the same way listening to one American daoist master give long lectures on the arts, for instance. Not for a second. And that is someone who has dedicated his life to internal arts.

 

Maybe it's just as you say, that the changes are a lot deeper than surface level. Maybe something like yoga works from the outside in, rather than the inside out?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Vajra Fist
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I met a qigong teacher once who was a very strong projector of qi.  He would walk by you, and you would tingle and feel heat from that direction.  It was very palpable.  I could also see that being a very off-putting attribute.  While many of his students enjoyed the sensation and thought it a mark of high achievement, I felt it as being ever - so slightly intruding.   He was a very kind man, but not easy to approach. 

 

I find it better to be neutral or receptive, and others will feel a more open and happy feeling when encountering you. 

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11 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Things appear as they are perceived. 

Perception is partial and interpreted.

 

Once you change the way you look at things,

the things you look at change.

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17 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

 

Maybe it's just as you say, that the changes are a lot deeper than surface level. Maybe something like yoga works from the outside in, rather than the inside out?

 

I think it's a matter of how we're taught and how we approach the practice. 

Speaking of vitality...

 

Spoiler

 

 

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Just now, rene said:

 

Once you change the way you look at things,

the things you look at change.

 

We see things as we are, not as they are

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3 hours ago, steve said:

 

We see things as we are, not as they are

 

Yes well I never claimed to radiate good health and vitality myself. Although I would love to, don't get me wrong. But I believe when you look at a system, you should look at the teacher. And then ask yourself if you want to become them.

 

JAJ is a teacher for instance that many people seek for high level teaching...

 

 

Edited by Vajra Fist
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3 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

 

Yes well I never claimed to radiate good health and vitality myself. Although I would love to, don't get me wrong. But I believe when you look at a system, you should look at the teacher. And then ask yourself if you want to become them.

 

JAJ is a teacher for instance that many people seek for high level teaching...

 

 

 

I agree with you, very important to evaluate the teacher carefully.

Not a bad idea to look closely at the other students as well.

It's equally important for the teacher to evaluate the student.

 

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4 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

Two very different videos 

 

 

 

Which approach would you use in trying to convince an elderly ill person to start doing something for his wellbeing? The hatha-yoga or the qigong video?

 

I practice both but very much feel that hatha-yoga is safe-cracking compared to tai chi and qigong. The subtle ways the Chinese find to achieve their goals fascinates me.

Edited by oak
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22 minutes ago, oak said:

 

Which approach would you use in trying to convince an elderly ill person to start doing something for his wellbeing? The hatha-yoga or the qigong video?

 

I practice both but very much feel that hatha-yoga is safe-cracking compared to tai chi and qigong. The subtle ways the Chinese find to achieve their goals fascinates me.

 

Great point.  I`d love to be able to do impressive-looking things but sometimes it`s the easy things, regularly practiced, that bring the most benefit.  Here`s a video of "swing arms," one of my favorites.

 

 

Edited by liminal_luke
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1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Great point.  I`d love to be able to do impressive-looking things but sometimes it`s the easy things, regularly practiced, that bring the most benefit.  Here`s a video of "swing arms," one of my favorites.

 

 

 

Proper technique for Ping Shuai Gong. There are so many testemonies of this simple qigong healing all sorts of diseases...

 

 

Edited by oak
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