It`s sad to look at Westerners

[Taoist Texts]

Like how many trash bags do you think they are leaving on the curb every week, for instance?   - but that has little to do with the amount of ecological havoc they may be wreaking.  Which is going to be farrrrr greater than a Third World family of 7

 

Interestingly, for the last 50-70 years a predominant share of the third world population owes its very existence to the western (the white american weirdos) consumption.

 

 

 

 

 

Not a coincidence.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Taoist Texts

[Apech]

 

Interestingly, for the last 50-70 years a predominant share of the third world population owes its very existence to the western (the white american weirdos) consumption.

 

 

 

 

 

Not a coincidence.

 

 

 

you have to demonstrate a causal connection between these two similarly shaped graphs or it is meaningless

[Marblehead]

A family of 7 American WEIRDos is likely going to have a massive ecological footprint in habitat destruction, resource consumption, and waste generation.  Like how many trash bags do you think they are leaving on the curb every week, for instance?

 

Sure, they might appear to be a happy, functional family (great for them!) - but that has little to do with the amount of ecological havoc they may be wreaking.  Which is going to be farrrrr greater than a Third World family of 7 - whom all have a higher death rate and far smaller average ecological footprint.

 

You are right that "litter" would be a misnomer - as that technically refers to multiple births.  Oops...

 

What would life be without our pessimists?

[Taomeow]

What would life be without our pessimists?

 

It would be sad...  there's nothing more distasteful than casual happy-happy-joy-joy acceptance of what a human being with  dignity and honesty, and courage and compassion, and a mind and a heart, should never accept.  But pessimism over the wrong cause is a waste of an opportunity to be pessimistic over the right one, and consequently of any chance to fix it.

 

 I think both our optimists and our pessimists are way off.

 

And our realists don't have a fighting chance because they are either ignored by both, or attacked by both. 

 

Seeing it this way makes me a whateverist I guess. 

[Brian]

It would be sad... there's nothing more distasteful than casual happy-happy-joy-joy acceptance of what a human being with dignity and honesty, and courage and compassion, and a mind and a heart, should never accept. But pessimism over the wrong cause is a waste of an opportunity to be pessimistic over the right one, and consequently of any chance to fix it.

 

I think both our optimists and our pessimists are way off.

 

And our realists don't have a fighting chance because they are either ignored by both, or attacked by both.

 

Seeing it this way makes me a whateverist I guess.

Is there, like, a Whateverists Union I can join?

[Taomeow]

Is there, like, a Whateverists Union I can join?

 

We could be the founders if there isn't...  how about a slogan for starters: 

Whateverists of the world, unite! 

[Brian]

We could be the founders if there isn't...  how about a slogan for starters: 

Whateverists of the world, unite! 

Make that:

Whateverists of the world, unite (or whatever)!

 

And you're on! We can be not only founders but we can both wear special hats!

[Taomeow]

Make that:

Whateverists of the world, unite (or whatever)!

 

And you're on! We can be not only founders but we can both wear special hats!

 

Your version of the slogan is perfect.  But the hat...  I'd opt for something more casual:

 

[Brian]

Your version of the slogan is perfect. But the hat... I'd opt for something more casual:

 

Totally appropriate for everyday wear but sometimes you've got to put on the fancy duds! You know, for weddings and funerals and affairs of state and birthday parties. That's what I always wear to international galas. Edited March 31, 2017 by Brian

[Protector]

It's decided, we need a new war 

[Nungali]

What would life be without our pessimists?

 

Very   'Neddy ' 

 

 

[Nungali]

Is there, like, a Whateverists Union I can join?

 

You could climb to the top of Mt Whateverist .... then you could 'rise above it' .   

[gendao]

 Interestingly, for the last 50-70 years a predominant share of the third world population owes its very existence to the western (the white american weirdos) consumption.

 

Not a coincidence.

you have to demonstrate a causal connection between these two similarly shaped graphs or it is meaningless

Well, GDP should go up with population.  Because if you have more workers, you should have more production.

 

But beyond that, the graphs show nothing about WEIRD wealth increasing Third World population, or whatever his extrapolation is...

 

These graphs are very illustrative of the WEIRD mindset though.  Plenty of WEIRD graphs on wealth production and labor force (population) growth (all to do with $$$)...but where's their graphs on habitat destruction, resource consumption, waste generation, plant & animal populations, aquifer levels, pollution levels, invasive species, etc etc?  Aren't those all important factors for them to track and consider as well?

 

Oh yea - the answer today and historically - has always been a resounding NO.  This goes back to ancient Judeo-Christian edicts to "rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground" and "be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."  Clearly, these Man Vs Nature roots certainly still lie embedded deeply within the collective WEIRD consciousness today.

The WEIRD mind also appears to be unique in terms of how it comes to understand and interact with the natural world. Studies show that Western urban children grow up so closed off in man-made environments that their brains never form a deep or complex connection to the natural world.

LITERALLY BOMBING PRISTINE PARADISE!!!

Edited April 1, 2017 by gendao

[Apech]

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170330-5-numbers-that-will-define-the-next-100-years

 

some interesting stats.

[windwalker]

Edited April 1, 2017 by windwalker

[Marblehead]

Excellent video.  So many topics included in it that bug me.  I have no answers but I sure have a lot of bitches.

[windwalker]

I have been using western Internet resources for a long time and occasionally I feel pity for Westerners for some reason.

If you didn't use western internet resources to post here, you could still feel pity and no one would ever have to know about it.

Its the technology created by the culture of the west that allows most of what is called 3rd world to survive their own cultures and continue to do so.

 

Unfortunately the culture that made it possible is being supplanted with those that never made it possible within their own cultures​ of origin.

 

It remains to be seen whether this is a good thing or not.

 

May guess is not. If you want to feel sad about something feel sad, about what will happen,

is happening as this process continues.

Edited April 1, 2017 by windwalker

[gendao]

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170330-5-numbers-that-will-define-the-next-100-years

 

some interesting stats.

Super-dense cities could house everyone on a surprisingly small amount of land. Those 6.3 billion urban dwellers in a city the same density as today’s Mumbai could squeeze onto an area the size of the UK. But spread those people out into a city the density of today’s Atlanta, and the land footprint expands dramatically, to around the size of the US.

Lmao...so no problem with overpopulation - as long as all our future kids become slumdog 6.3 billioners!

But that's OK. The really important thing is to keep breeding & feeding all our WEIRD fractional banking pyramid schemes!

 

Ever notice how these completely egocentric, narcissistic, irresponsible, carpe diem, pass the buck (debt), superconsumer attitudes tend to emanate from the Baby Boomer subset of WEIRDos, in particular?

Raised in an era of seemingly unending economic prosperity with relatively permissive parents, and the first generation to grow up with a television, baby boomers developed an appetite for consumption and a lack of empathy for future generations that has resulted in unfortunate policy decisions

A pattern of ill-conceived and self-serving decisions made by "Baby Boomers" is laid bare throughout AGoS, and it is maddening as an American to consider. Brokaw's "Greatest Generation" gave the boomers one of the most prosperous and powerful nations in history; the boomers in turn are leaving a levered, diminished, and crumbling hulk.

Don't care about the environment, don't care about future generations, just me, now, me, now, me, now!!!

\m/

Edited April 3, 2017 by gendao

[windwalker]

I'm going to sound pretty awful but I freaking hate the "primitives"

cue to stop reading lol

 

I hate how a great project needs to be stopped somewhere because some schmucks were living "on the land" for generations. Move, damn it! A dam and an oil line are more important than culture or some crap.Look at this

 

 

Its not the space. Its that they need others to "support" their life style so they can continue to live as they did in the past. Its even more interesting when others "not of the tribe" ask why there is no support or not enough support given by others but some how do not give "themselves"

 

Edited April 3, 2017 by windwalker

[Taomeow]

The level of fragmentation of the thinking process of too many of my contemporaries is simply surreal. 

 

A hodgepodge of causes and effects...  pretty much all effects attributed to wrong causes and pretty much all causes expected to produce effects they can't in a million years.  Responsibility without authority dispensed left and right --  trickle-down responsibility, trickle-down blame -- for processes people down below never created and never benefited from and never had the power to prevent.  It's like blaming the downstairs neighbor for the leaking ceiling in your apartment.  It does not matter how many children the downstairs neighbor has.  What matters for the ceiling over your head is what the neighbor upstairs is up to...

 

Let's have 1% steal 99% of everything there is to own and then let's have the 99% hate each other for being too many.  Let's destroy everything for everybody and then let's get rid of everybody because they are not capable of a sustainable existence.

 

I understand the heart of the depopulator, however non-human.  After all, the population may have exhausted its usefulness by now.  The 1% are finally ready to do without the 99%, and so the former are ready to do away with the latter.

 

What I don't understand is how the latter mistake themselves for the former.  Mind-boggling...  They talk about "humans" who are too many, too invasive, too this and too that, not realizing that they themselves are included in that category.  Yes, it's too late to not have had any children, to not have cared for the family, to not have loved thy neighbor, it's too late.  The not-human  1% don't care if you have no children and the neighbor you so enthusiastically despise has ten.  You are still lumped together.  You don't get it, do you?..

 

The neighbor upstairs does.  If he wants the ceiling to fall on your head, he does not care that you will manage to blame the neighbor downstairs and his excessive children.  In fact, he might get a kick out of the comedy show your thinking process is to him...  

[windwalker]

[Marblehead]

The level of fragmentation of the thinking process of too many of my contemporaries is simply surreal. 

 

 

But we always like to play the blame game.  If we determine something is wrong then there must be someone to blame.

[Stosh]

Excellent video.  So many topics included in it that bug me.  I have no answers but I sure have a lot of bitches.

You do seem off your game , and wish I could be of assistance , but cant imagine how. I guess it puts the idea of whether just waiting lets the mud settle, to a real life test . I've tried this, but when it doesn't work, I figure I must be doing it wrong,,but maybe I'm not. 

[gendao]

Let's have 1% steal 99% of everything there is to own and then let's have the 99% hate each other for being too many.  Let's destroy everything for everybody and then let's get rid of everybody because they are not capable of a sustainable existence.

 

I understand the heart of the depopulator, however non-human.  After all, the population may have exhausted its usefulness by now.  The 1% are finally ready to do without the 99%, and so the former are ready to do away with the latter.

 

What I don't understand is how the latter mistake themselves for the former.  Mind-boggling...  They talk about "humans" who are too many, too invasive, too this and too that, not realizing that they themselves are included in that category.  Yes, it's too late to not have had any children, to not have cared for the family, to not have loved thy neighbor, it's too late.  The not-human  1% don't care if you have no children and the neighbor you so enthusiastically despise has ten.  You are still lumped together.  You don't get it, do you?..

 

The neighbor upstairs does.  If he wants the ceiling to fall on your head, he does not care that you will manage to blame the neighbor downstairs and his excessive children.  In fact, he might get a kick out of the comedy show your thinking process is to him...  

So do you believe that there is absolutely no positive correlation between human population and environmental degradation?  That overpopulation is a complete myth - and even if there were 100 trillion humans living on this planet, the environment would not suffer one bit more from it?  There is simply no population ceiling for humans here, even if it were 100 gigatrillion, because this rock has an infinite carrying capacity?  And anyone (environmentalists, ecologists, etc) who disagrees with that is a Malthusian 1%r?

 

Not that Malthus was exactly wrong, was he?

Thomas Robert Malthus was a 19th-century English cleric who worked out a theory purporting to show that population would always increase more rapidly than available agricultural land, and that population was therefore the cause of food shortages and poverty. His ideas, challenged at the time by Karl Marx among others, have remained a powerful influence on economics.

[Taomeow]

Here we go again.  I said it already and have to reiterate...  Do not set up straw men pretending they are my thoughts and do not strike down straw men of your own making pretending they are my ideas.  If you want to know what I think and why, ask me.  Don't talk at me.  Either talk to me, or talk to someone else. 

 

OK, I'll say just one thing, though your ability to hear is something you've been consistently undermining my faith in.   One more benefit of the doubt and then, no more.

 

Natural systems are self-regulating.  There's no such thing as "overpopulation" by any species in any environment for any reason unless the environment is compromised.  Have never been.  There's peak population growth in any species finding itself at an advantageous moment, followed by decline because of multiple (thousands) self-regulating mechanisms built into the natural systems. 

 

Just one example out of thousands -- still my favorite because it was the first one I learned about, many years ago.  In nature, wild sheep eat clover; when there's plenty of clover, there's more and more sheep because they have plenty to eat.  When there's more and more sheep, clover gets overeaten and starts declining.  So then, in response to a complex system of signals and feedback loops plants and animals in nature always exchange, clover gets the message "we are being eaten too much" and responds by producing phytoestrogens that specifically inhibit reproduction in sheep.  Next season, there's still less clover to eat, but there's fewer sheep to eat it, because clover intervened in order to bring sheep fertility down for this season. Which is why no sheep starve this season, or any other.  Fewer sheep eat less clover, clover population recovers, consequently clover downregulates production of sheep-sterilizing phytoestrogens (resources on making them are not wasted when it is no longer needed), consequently next season there's more little lambs born.  And so on.  More sheep, less clover; less clover, more sterilizing phytoestrogens it packs; more sterilizing phytoestrogens, fewer sheep; fewer sheep, more clover; more clover, more sheep...  and so on and on and on.  For millions of years.  

 

Do I need to spell out what I'm driving at?..  or did I succeed jump-starting your ability to start thinking afresh?   Give it a try...   if you try not to put your ideas of what my ideas are like into my uninviting head, what can we find out about what I really think?  I've said it many times on many occasions.  I say that unmolested systems just do not follow the same disastrous paths as systems tampered with. 

 

We are a tampered with system.  To ascribe any which peculiarities (like overpopulation or poverty or pollution or sickness or what have you) of a system where no stone has been left unturned in the effort to demolish all natural self-regulatory mechanisms, of a system where everything is off, nothing is balanced or self-regulating, to any other cause than this meticulous breakage of all natural mechanisms is...

 

well...  as someone said, in the age of information, ignorance is a choice.   To which I would add, in the age of too much information thoroughly intermixed with unprecedented amounts of disinformation, the inability to integrate and analyze it and to resist quickie-mart problem-reaction-solution traps set by someone else is a cognitive disability.  

 

May all sufferers get well soon. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Taomeow