Allow/Accept people you care to, to hurt themselves?

[Shad282]

how to accept and allow someone you care to, friends or family, to hurt themselves and do stuff that might lead to get them hurt themselves one day, because they are not listening?

 

for me, it makes me angry and agitated, and i try to explain with facts and logic that what the person is doing or going to do will result in hurting themselves and regret later on, but people don't listen and go for what they want to do. and it kinda frustrates me seeing someone i care to going to hurt themselves.

 

I wonder sometimes, how am i going to handle having kids and accepting their choices that might really bad.

 

[Stosh]

I don't think there's a magic incantation which will force you to respect someone else's decisions as being for them to make. 

But I suppose you could remind yourself just how much you resent people intruding on your own prerogatives.  

As a parent though , in the beginning I expect you'll need to encourage and discourage things as you see it best.. hopefully you recognize at some point when you're starting to be needlessly intrusive , and its time that you can start ,, not having to. Keeping it foremost , that you want that kid to be able to stand on their own , rather than just please you to avoid scoldings and so forth,, might help you restrain yourself. 

[manitou]

It's always nice to keep in mind - could anybody have told you what not to do when you were younger?  Did you not have to make your own mistakes?  I sure did.  But those things that 'seemed' the most horrible, like me having to go through years of alcoholism, for example - turned out to be the very best thing in the long run, due to the need to recover and find myself on a completely different path.  The opposite path from the one I was on.  Yet, had I always listened to my folks, I wouldn't have taken that first drink.  But, out of rebellion, I did.

 

All I know is that what is seemingly bad turns out to be very good - and vice versa.

 

Raising kids?  Never had them.  But I think being a good example would be the best place to start.

[RiverSnake]

As you grow in Gnosis, this knowledge that other people are doing dumb shit and unconsciously hurting themselves will only intensify. 

 

People need to live, touch the hot stove and learn from experience. Trying to protect people from themselves only delays there growth and disables them from true empowerment. Always be willing to lend a helping hand....but....ONLY IF IT IS SINCERELY REQUESTED OF YOU. 

 

It is deeply selfish of you to do so otherwise, as your are only seeking to make yourself feel better by helping those whom you perceive are making a mistake. Remember, we are all looking at reality through our own filters. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by OldWolf

[Jetsun]

It comes from genuinely realising that you don't actually know what is good for them 

[thelerner]

For me, humor and the concept of the SEP field work.

 

An important part of humor is not taking things too seriously.  Seeing the funny side of things. even the negatives one..within reason and hoping no one gets too mangled.  It comes from getting distance from the situation and appreciating the soap opera nature of of so much of human interaction, along with the knowledge we don't really know how things will end.

 

The SEP field is also about distance and perspective.  It stands for Somebody Else's Problem.  It's letting the person and world know 'Good luck with that', letting go of emotional entanglement (possibly impossible depending on the situation) and going on with your day.  Compartmentalizing. 

 

As cold and regressive as the above sounds, it allows you to keep communication and goodwill open.  Versus making demands that won't be listened to and when and if disaster befalls you can't help pick up the pieces.  And as OldWolf said, some people have to touch the hot stove in order to learn.  For them its a necessary step that can't be avoided. 

[liminal_luke]

You can`t always stop people from hurting themselves, but you can give them the gift of benevolent non-interference by recognizing that they have the right to live their own lives as they see fit.  No small thing that.

 

When my mom had breast cancer I had all sorts of ideas about how she should approach her treatment, none of which she had any interest in.  She`s now cancer free and doing just fine -- thanks to the conventional medical care that she decided she wanted.  She did it her way without vitamins or herbs or acupuncture needles.  It was hard for me watching her make choices I thought might be harmful, but people have got to do what they`ve got to do. All we can do is love them -- and ourselves. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by liminal_luke

[dawei]

What did Laozi say about nurturing the 10,000 ?   

[Shad282]

What did Laozi say about nurturing the 10,000 ?   

I don't know

Edited November 18, 2016 by Shad282

[Stosh]

I don't think there's a magic incantation which will force you to respect someone else's decisions as being for them to make. 

But I suppose you could remind yourself just how much you resent people intruding on your own prerogatives.  

As a parent though , in the beginning I expect you'll need to encourage and discourage things as you see it best.. hopefully you recognize at some point when you're starting to be needlessly intrusive , and its time that you can start ,, not having to. Keeping it foremost , that you want that kid to be able to stand on their own , rather than just please you to avoid scoldings and so forth,, might help you restrain yourself. 

Since there isn't much difference between what I said, and anyone else , ,and I didn't get a like even from the person asking for advice , I guess that means nobody likes me. 

[manitou]

Maybe some of it comes from our own control issues too.

 

Great comment, Jetsun.  We absolutely don't. 

 

Stosh, come over here by the fire and have a cup of hot chocolate.  You couldn't be more wrong.

[gatito]

how to accept and allow someone you care to, friends or family, to hurt themselves and do stuff that might lead to get them hurt themselves one day, because they are not listening?

 

for me, it makes me angry and agitated, and i try to explain with facts and logic that what the person is doing or going to do will result in hurting themselves and regret later on, but people don't listen and go for what they want to do. and it kinda frustrates me seeing someone i care to going to hurt themselves.

 

I wonder sometimes, how am i going to handle having kids and accepting their choices that might really bad.

 

The problem is that most people don't actually listen to themselves in a meaningful way, because if they did so, they wouldn't harm themselves (and they'd do their best to avoid harming others).

 

Facts and logic won't do it - but there are other ways of helping people to learn to make healthy decisions.

 

If you can teach your children to be emotionally literate (which can only be done by modeling that yourselves - i.e. both parents plus - in today's society - your healthy group of friends/extended family) then they will naturally learn to make healthy decisions when they're adults.

[silent thunder]

Selfishness is not living your life the way you want... it's expecting others to live their lives the way you want...

[redcairo]

I'm no expert on any of this so I can only share my thoughts.

 

I have a 20 year old daughter. I've basically been her only parent (not by choice). I grieve, feel anguish, when she is crying pitifully over something. When she takes up some habit (she began smoking) that nearly makes me lose my mind, especially when I then see it wrecking her health, her energy, and so on. When her attitude wrecks her own life. It's so difficult. But the best I can do, I finally realized, is accept her as she is. There are things I feel like are a mom's "job" and I won't stop no matter how irritating she finds my input :-) but in the end, the realizations have to come from her.

 

Much of the problem is getting her to realize that SHE is worth it.

 

My father used to tell me, "Don't get pregnant and don't ruin your credit." To dad, these were the two most important things in life. Funny enough I understand them now. I completely screwed up on both counts, no pun intended. Advice only occasionally helps.

 

When I was going through my tough chick phase (~age 18-22), I wanted to get a motorcycle. He had actually ridden a Harley 1100 Sportster for many years. We lived in CA where nice weather makes bikes more practical year round. I could see, when I told him this, a moment of utter panic and horror cross his face, and that he literally stomped on his own reaction. Knowing, probably, that if he had been as instantly sharply disapproving as he was about most things, I'd be riding one in about ten minutes. After getting himself under control, he said mildly, "Alright. Just remember, motorcycles tend to be very... unforgiving." His moment of self control and gentle suggestion was far more powerful than almost any advice he'd ever given me -- and I didn't get one. Because instead of rejecting it, I remembered it.  His willingness to "let me make the decision" rather than leaning on me made all the difference.

 

I wanted to talk about something different but I'll do it separately.

 

RC

[Fate]

Warn them once, then watch them fall. Pain is a great teacher, and maybe next time they will come to you for advice.

 

No one said it was easy to cultivate patience, but this is a great chance for you to let go of what you cant control.

[silent thunder]

Lately, I focus on not working.   Not trying... not on anything other than being present.

Just be.  Complete and radical acceptance of self and conditions of life and others.

 

At this point, other than to be present and attentive, what is there to seek?  For me, nothing. 

Mirrors facing mirages.

 

Who am I to know what is the next step for others? 

[thelerner]

I wonder if its deeper wisdom to discuss the problem with the person with no agenda.  To understand there point of view, there motivations.  Not through manipulating, but discussing what is involved, what's likely to happen, consequences and unintended consequences.

 

Maybe the problem is we jump to 'No' too fast.  Lock horns, put up shields.  When wisdom isn't doing nothing, not telling the other person what to do or that they are wrong, but discussing it.  Understand first.  Maybe in a good true discussion they can see their course of action in a new light.  Maybe. 

 

In the book Siddhartha, in the end he's enlightened, but he's an awful father.  He does nothing, instead of listening to his son.  They don't talk, thus they're aliens to each other.  Not good.  Be friends, be able to talk.  To share without recrimination, then its less likely to be you vs them, instead its both of you, figuring out what is best. 

 

Not always possible, but maybe that's what we should strive for. 

[wilfred]

as i understand it the grounds for people doing things is deeper than can be interfered with and if you do there are always consequences, often unintended. and if you could actually see how deep this process was you wouldn't want to try and change things anyway.

 

we'll generally butt-in regardless. it can be impossibly hard to let things unfold around us without feeling the need to interject. but that's our own kamma/conditioning at work. the real love comes from being able to let things happen without a hint of reaction or needing to change anything. it's something that's resonated hugely on a personal level since receiving dhamma and an insight that matures over time. as you increasingly let go, stop gripping the experience so tightly, you get a better feel for when it may be appropriate to lend a helping hand and when you're actually being prompted by delusion, wanting to change the world etc. this can take a great deal of discernment, as we're extracting ourselves from the web of personal reactions to reside in a state of pure equanimity. it's kinda like the prime directive in star trek but applying it to every aspect of life.