Yoda

Pros and Cons of sharing spiritual experiences

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Portcraig had recently had some deep experiences and Max recommended that he not talk about the experiences so as not to dissipate the energy.

 

I think that brings up a good point that applies towards any special experience or insight:

 

Jesus would heal people and admonish them to "tell no one."

 

Esther says that doing so not only dilutes the experience but invites backlash and disbelief from others which can undermine one's experience.

 

The self help movement says to not share your business ideas to minimize second guessing.

 

 

 

But then again, this is taobums...

 

I think that sharing experiences is a very valuable thing that has great potential in helping others (like inspiring me to check out Kunlun for instance) but can be very depleting and the mixing of energy it creates can be disorienting as well. Like with giving blood... you have to be strong and stable physically and energetically to give blood, but if you can do it, it's a good thing.

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I think sharing something before it is fully processed and resolved, is a loss.

 

unsealing the vessel means cooking ( ie transformation) doesnt happen.

 

I dont mind telling stuff, years later, when it is fully integrated.

 

this doesnt apply to practise details, physical symptoms, etc.

 

What I find surprising is that there are those who dont instinctively keep the lid closed when it needs to be.

 

I'm not sure how to go about mending a leaky vessel, I think that is a subject in itself.

 

You have to wonder WHY people are prematurely sharing, and WHY they are unable to contain their experience.

 

Then work from whatever the answers are.

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I'd have a different approach to the question itself, which assumes that there's a right/wrong, good/bad judgement to be made.

 

The false ego needs judgments because it's not grounded in real inner wisdom. The capacity for wisdom is only activated by a deep engagement in each particular situation.

 

At one time, with one particular person, it might be appropriate to disclose something, that would not be appropriate to disclose to another person or at another time or under other circumstances.

 

Teachers teach according to the student's readiness and individual learning needs. What promotes learning for one may hinder learning for another. There are no across the board rules - people construct artificial rules so they can go to sleep and disengage from the living moment. There are natural laws, but that's different from artificial rules.

 

-Karen

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In meditation training I was always advised not to discuss experiences much with other students. I think in part that it can color or influence their experience thereby compromising their training. It's very easy to have a seed planted in your mind early in the training that can be very distracting and set you up with expectations that are unrealistic.

 

On the other hand, it is sometimes valuable to me to read the experiences or advise of others. That's why I hang out here. It was particularly nice to read cloud recluse's recent experience with waking up as it was so similar to an experience I once had. For some reason, seeing others have similar experience on this path can be comforting

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Taobums and America is all about kiss and tell, which has its issues, but I think that the old fashion tradition of never ever telling definitely needs to go.

 

A balance needs to be found, but it is a trial and error thing too... experiment with either way to get the hang of it.

 

I like to think that Taobums is moving from simply playing bumper cars to actually getting our paws on some ore, so this may be a growing issue for us to keep our eyes on.

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Yes, Yoda, I think you are right, there are somethings that need to be changed.

But I think Max's advice is about the technicality of the situation, is not a moral issue, firsthand.

Technically you need to keep the fire down.

Otherwise, you burn your experience.

 

I think I may find a middle way sollution to this <_<

 

Can Protcraig write poems?

Taoists were carefull on two things: telling too much and not telling at all. If their civilisation was about not telling at all, they wouldn't write so many metaphors to describe their training.

 

What do you say?

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It is probably best to do what the teacher you are studying with suggests. I have studied with another Master once who said the same thing. I think I read where Chris posted that sometimes Max will only suggest to you do something once. He may not tell you again.

 

Everyone will have their own experiences. It is probably not good to try and have the same things happen to you as perhaps that isn't what you need to happen. It is all right I think to share about experiences you are having with the physical part of the practice and how it is impacting your life.

Edited by portcraig

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I say tell everything and maybe we can figure out whats going on. Its not like there are people around who have all the answers. There are groups who claim to have all the answers however. In my opinion secrecy is a control mechanism.

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I am not a student of Max but this issue affects us all.

 

Lets say I reveal, maybe " oh hey I popped out of my body and played Cricket with Max in another dimension."

 

One person may say, "This is all bs. Cricket?" Another may say, "Cricket? Sweet! Must play cricket with Max, must play cricket with Max."

 

So not only are you generating disbelief giving this info out of context but you are also causing students to doubt their experience and analyze it based on the reflections of the group when all he should be doing is running the practice. And there is always that competitive guy who will get hung up on being there first.

That could f up your routine huh?

 

Or worse, this scenario: "Well since I am an intermediate student Max taught me to use Thunder practices to cook marshmallows. This is what I did to cook them." Then some kid reading Taobums will use that very technique out of context to try and cook Marshmallows. If he's lucky nothing happens. If he is very unlucky he ruptures a nut and ruins himself for higher cultivation. If the world is very unlucky he decides to call himself a master and write "The Tao of Marshmallows" taking the world of pop-Taoism by storm teaching people to rupture their nut sacks in the name of Tao and Max.

 

And of course in the Taoist paradigm as I understand it so far (which isn't saying much at this point) this is bad news in the Karma department, especially for the teacher who allowed the unskillful view to develop. In fact this one act of ignorantly revealing something because your Western mind doesn't believe in secrecy

could effectively ruin the chance to cultivate for thousands of people including yourself. This has happened before. Lets be responsible and not let it happen again. Please?

Edited by darebak

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In meditation training I was always advised not to discuss experiences much with other students. I think in part that it can color or influence their experience thereby compromising their training. It's very easy to have a seed planted in your mind early in the training that can be very distracting and set you up with expectations that are unrealistic.

 

On the other hand, it is sometimes valuable to me to read the experiences or advise of others. That's why I hang out here. It was particularly nice to read cloud recluse's recent experience with waking up as it was so similar to an experience I once had. For some reason, seeing others have similar experience on this path can be comforting

 

 

Yes. Its called false thinking. It will cause other students to want the state you reached, and it will become a hindrance to their own cultivation and ability.

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited by 林愛偉

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I've read that faerie contacts will leave you if they're talked about without their consent.

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I'd have a different approach to the question itself, which assumes that there's a right/wrong, good/bad judgement to be made.

 

The false ego needs judgments because it's not grounded in real inner wisdom. The capacity for wisdom is only activated by a deep engagement in each particular situation.

 

At one time, with one particular person, it might be appropriate to disclose something, that would not be appropriate to disclose to another person or at another time or under other circumstances.

 

Teachers teach according to the student's readiness and individual learning needs. What promotes learning for one may hinder learning for another. There are no across the board rules - people construct artificial rules so they can go to sleep and disengage from the living moment. There are natural laws, but that's different from artificial rules.

 

-Karen

 

 

This is absolutely spot on, Karen.

 

It's the leaky vessels that need the sealing 'rule' so that they are able to learn containment.

 

Once containment and ego immaturity/energy loss through blabbing/envying others etc is not an issue, then hopefully discernment can have some firm soil in which to root.

 

This is why it's pretty safe to tell people "Dont Talk!" because those with discernment are unlikely to, and the others need to learn to stop with the oversharing, already.

 

The payoffs of sharing versus the losses from not hearing other people's experiences.. well... we have a fair amount of texts, methinks, and our teachers to ask.

 

And ultimately it is our own experience which is our guide.

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This is a tough one. On the one hand it's great to see others having similar experiences. It's sort of a confirmation, that you're not deluding yourself or imagining things. On the other, there is always the possibility of unintentionally leading others astray, as well as the possibility of fostering attachment to experiences.

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I say we all take a 6 month sabbatical from sharing our experiences and instead just answer the age old question of which martial art is best.

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xenolith,

 

Do you have a quota of how many wiseguy remarks you have to make in a week? Could you maybe attempt to be respectful of others..just try it for a week man.

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Cameron, dear friend, pay attention to the words not the sender of them. Try thinking about the question for instance. Replying to it even.

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I find there is a time to share with the right people. I have a few students and I will share experiences when I "feel" impelled since it seems to resonate with their state and the context of their growth at that point in time. If I tell too much I somehow feel depleted... if I tell just the right amount I actually feel more energized and they seem more energized. I do not know why this is the case, but I'm sensitive to it and try to follow this intuition closely. There is no black and white here. Some experiences can be used to inspire people in general, and some should be kept personal for a while, or perhaps forever. I think our tendency to make hard and fast rules as opposed to following principles is a good indication of where we are at in spiritual/mental maturity.

 

I agree that we should carefully review our experiences as well as any motivation in telling them before making a decision to share... but share carefully not as a mechanism to control others, but a tool to helping them. This goes for any knowledge. Why would a teacher try to communicate advanced college level math to a student who hadn't even demonstrated a grasp of basic math? It's not to "control" the student... the student is just not ready. It is a kindness not to overwhelm a student with more than they can assimilate at any moment.

 

That being said, there are teachers that hold back knowledge for egotistical or selfish reasons, but to classify all teachers as such just because they hold something back is very narrow minded.

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Cameron, dear friend, pay attention to the words not the sender of them. Try thinking about the question for instance. Replying to it even.

 

 

No idea what your talking about see if you can attempt to not be a wiseass for a week.

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This is absolutely spot on, Karen.

 

It's the leaky vessels that need the sealing 'rule' so that they are able to learn containment.

 

Once containment and ego immaturity/energy loss through blabbing/envying others etc is not an issue, then hopefully discernment can have some firm soil in which to root.

 

This is why it's pretty safe to tell people "Dont Talk!" because those with discernment are unlikely to, and the others need to learn to stop with the oversharing, already.

 

The payoffs of sharing versus the losses from not hearing other people's experiences.. well... we have a fair amount of texts, methinks, and our teachers to ask.

 

And ultimately it is our own experience which is our guide.

 

A few years back I used to share a lot (too many) of my experiences. I then learned that as I shared less (or rather at more appropriate times in more appropriate ways), I was given more.

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If you were given a percious jewel of the utmost beauty,would you show it to everybody?Would you show it to some and not others?Who would you trust to benifit from showing?

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There are pros and cons each way which i feel Karen explained well.

 

Whatever the intention of sharing 'spiritual experiences', due to their nature, they can at best be spoken or written about with limited conveyence. One reason for this is the fact that they are usually beyond the realm of ordinary sensory experience.

 

So, i feel that it's generally better to share the fruits of the experience/cultivation.

 

By this i mean: share the love you feel, share the peace you are in, share the compassion that's in your heart, share the grattitude, the joy, the song and the silence....................

Edited by mat black

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If you were given a percious jewel of the utmost beauty,would you show it to everybody?Would you show it to some and not others?Who would you trust to benifit from showing?

 

I would show it to only those who would appreciate the true beauty and significants of the jewel.

 

IMHO my spiritual experiences are deeply personal and intimate. I do not go running off the mouth each time something happens, just as I don't go telling everyone of my sexual trysts. If someone asks, and I feel that they may benefit, I may tell.

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There is a traditional "spiritual law" called Kamit in some language I dont know - the law of silence.

 

If you're doing meditation and you get the feeling that we are all one, then jump up, run out to your family and tell them "hey y'all! I got it! We are all one! Ive got to get on tv and tell the world, they need to know". Then you have lost the feeling before you've even opened your mouth. But if you stay with the feeling in meditation, you stay with it when you go out of meditation, you recall the feeling during other meditations, you get the feeling in your everyday life, and you get the feeling so many times that its a natural part of how you experience life, then it is integrated and you can talk about it as much as you want without loosing it or destroying it.

 

I believe that almost everybody who do meditation or any other spiritual practice had these experiences the first years. Leaking and sharing is nothing to be afraid of because we learn by our own experience, not by what someone tells us NOT to do. We can listen to what the teacher say and try to recognize it in our own life, but not listen and blindly believe it.

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