MooNiNite

Wang Liping Low Level?

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In general, I think that people would find that various masters are going to be different than their expectations.

 

The same would be true about psychics, for much the same reasons.

 

One good question might be - what is everyone's understanding and expectation of "high level"?

 

And where did these come from?

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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I'd be interested to hear who your psychic friend thinks has a high level of attainment?

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In general, I think that people would find that various masters are going to be different than their expectations.

 

The same would be true about psychics, for much the same reasons.

 

One good question might be - what is everyone's understanding and expectation of "high level"?

 

And where did these come from?

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

 

the question is focused towards wang liping expressing himself.

 

he claims to have yang shen double, the ability to shoot light blasts, and also the ability to meditate for a month without stopping

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Re:

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"he claims to have yang shen double, the ability to shoot light blasts, and also the ability to meditate for a month without stopping"

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Well, let's examine those:

 

Ever have an imaginary friend?

 

Ever see Star Wars and play at what was seen?

 

Ever save up for weeks and weeks to buy something?

 

 

In a way, these claims are perhaps not much different than the experience of an american teenager who maybe has a paper route job, likes movies, and saved up to buy a new bike.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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Certainly you know many who are oblivious to some aspect of spirituality or the other. It's all in your head they'll say, aint nothing to see there.

 

Well that's because they can't see what they can't see.

 

Same principle applies further up - there are many who can see, and believe they can see everything! And maybe they aren't even judging, they are simply receiving.

 

But Liu Yiming says Spirits and Milfoil don't really know anything about true connection to the tao. They just know about the spiritual side of things.

 

So how do we know if your friend has eyes to see the deepest truths? If some master or the other has gone beyond the root of life and death, naturally they'd appear much as nothing of note.... which is pretty much the point of daoist achievements. :huh:

 

Zhuangzi, 7e, translation: Brook Ziporyn:

 

 

There was a shaman in Zheng named Jixian who could discern whether people would live or die, survive or perish. He knew how long their lives would be and what turns their fortunes would take, giving the exact year, month, week, and date for each event like some kind of god. When the people of Zheng caught sight of him, they would turn and run. Liezi went to see him, and his mind became quite intoxicated. He returned and told Huzi about it, saying, "I used to  think your Course was the ultimate, but now I see that there is something beyond it."

 

Huzi said, "I have only finished showing you its outward ornament, not yet its inner reality. Have you really mastered this Course? A multitude of hens with no rooster can produce no chicks. You use the Course to browbeat the world, insisting that people believe in it. Because you try to control others, you have allowed yourself to be controlled. That is why this man was able to read your fortune on your face. Bring him here, and I will show myself to him."

 

The next day, Liezi brought the shaman to see Huzi. He came out and said to Liezi, "Alas! Your master is as good as dead! That is not a living being in there! He has at most a few weeks left. I saw something very strange in him, something resembling wet ashes."

 

Liezi went in, his collar drenched with tears, and reported these words to Huzi. Huzi said, "Just now I showed him the patterns of the earth, sprouting forth without any strenuous rumblings and without straightening themselves out. He must have seen in me the incipient impulse of the Virtuosity that blocks everything out. Try bringing him again."

 

The next day, Liezi brought the shaman once more. He came out and said, "Your master is lucky to have met me! He's recovering; there are healthy signs of life! I could see his blockage moving into balance."

 

Liezi went in and reported this to HUzi, who said, "Just now I showed him Heaven's soil. Impervious to both names and realities, renown and profit, the incipient impulse nonetheless comes forth from the heels. He must have seen in me the incipient impulse of all that flourishes. Try bringing him again."

 

The next day, he brought the shaman yet again to see Huzi. He came out and told Liezi, "Your master is an incoherent mess, I have no way to read his face. Have him get himself together, then I'll come back to do a reading."

 

Liezi went in and reported this to Huzi, who said, "Just now I showed him the vast gushing surge in which no one thing wins out. He must have seen in me the incipient impulse that balances all energies. The frothing of a salamander's swirl is the reservoir. The frothing of still water is the reservoir. The frothing of flowing water is the reservoir. The reservoir has nine names, nine aspects, and I have showin him three of them. Try bringing him again."

 

The next day, Liezi brought him to see Huzi again. But before the shaman had even come to a halt before him, he lost control of himself and bolted out the door. Huzi said, "Go after him!" But Liezi could not catch up with him. He returned and reported to Huzi, "He's gone! I cannot catch him!"

 

Huzi said, "Just now I showed him what I am when not yet emerged from my source -- something empty and serpentine in its twistings, admitting of no understanding of who or what. So he saw it as something endlessly collapsing and scattering, something flowing away with every wave. This is why he fled."

 

That was when Liezi realized he had not yet learned anything. He returned to his home and did not emerge for three years, cooking for his wife, feeding the pigs as if he were serving guests, remaining remote from all endeavors and letting all the chiseled carvings of his character return to an unhewn blockishness. Solitary like a clump of soil, he planted his physical form there in its place, a mass of chaos and confusion. And that is how he remained to the end of his days.

Edited by Daeluin
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Certainly 

 

usually those who go beyond death and are still alive bring a little something back with them from the other side.....supernatural abilities....

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As for abilities, have you read his bio? Plenty in there that resonates with me. And plenty of stories floating around.

 

As for $$$$, remember that China considers him a national artifact of some sort, and so they set the price, not him. In the bio, he is described as continuing to live in the 2 room house with his parents, and with nothing but a stamp collection in terms of added posessions (granted that was long ago now).

 

If you don't want to believe, don't believe. In my opinion he isn't trying to talk himself up in any way, he simply works to help others attain the dao.

Edited by Daeluin
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I remain sceptical of Wang Liping and I've said it many many times. I think the 'Opening the Dragon Gate' book is a perfect marketing tool to hook in gullible 'students' looking for extraordinary abilities. This sort of thing has happened since the dawn of man.

This goes totally against the spirit of the Dao in my opinion.

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So we have a master who's bio paints a picture of someone exceedingly humble yet exceedingly effective at reshaping the spiritual involvement of the masses.

 

My sense is that it is his destiny to have such a profound effect upon the world, and I haven't seen how he has any particular motive or intention to do anything but help others gain deeper connection to the dao. His bio clearly communicates that his masters believe him to be someone who is destined to broaden the exposure of their lineage.

 

Trouble is, his influence appears to be so powerful that those who interact with his field have very extreme expeinces. Those who are unprepared may not know what they are in for, and those who are already on their own way might sense something that scares them away, rightfuly so!

 

So to me, much of the drama, reputation, etc surrounding this master is related more to the people who connect with him than with the person himself. We would be wise to simply see it for what it is without projecting judgments and continuing the spread of confusion. Then people who resonate can benefit and people who don't simply go their own way.

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Perhaps what you mean is you think he hasn't reached the highest levels or Yang shen as has been suggested by some people and his book. I agree it's good to question some things, but even then I don't see how that means low level, at least if you are comparing him to most of the other stuff out there.

 

Do you think a truly achieved teacher would go around demonstrating whatever abilities they have in Seminars? Moreover i dont think they'd want the students to have that as their motivation for cultivation.

Still, being able to perform interesting feats isn't a good indicator of high level or not.

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In Taoism very high becomes quite low.  Silly trappings (powers, possessions,  tittles, reputation) are left and one becomes a seemingly foolish wanderer. 

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Perhaps what you mean is you think he hasn't reached the highest levels or Yang shen as has been suggested by some people and his book. I agree it's good to question some things, but even then I don't see how that means low level, at least if you are comparing him to most of the other stuff out there.

 

Do you think a truly achieved teacher would go around demonstrating whatever abilities they have in Seminars? Moreover i dont think they'd want the students to have that as their motivation for cultivation.

Still, being able to perform interesting feats isn't a good indicator of high level or not.

 

doing some type of demonstration for those paying $4,000 seems reasonable, he sure writes about having attained a lot of abilities in his books. One could say those abilities are what draws many people in the first place. So it is a little strange you see. 

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I remain sceptical of Wang Liping and I've said it many many times. I think the 'Opening the Dragon Gate' book is a perfect marketing tool to hook in gullible 'students' looking for extraordinary abilities. This sort of thing has happened since the dawn of man.

This goes totally against the spirit of the Dao in my opinion.

 

I would agree with this, and part of me has thought it before. But the teachings presented are almost too good to be fake. Lots of really valuable stuff in those books, that actually match with other accounts from different parts of the world. 

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Re:

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"Do you think a truly achieved teacher would go around demonstrating whatever abilities they have in Seminars?"

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Yes.

 

And I myself would do that, any time.

 

Because otherwise, what are we talking about? "Belief"?

 

Putting anyone in a position of "belief" in you, or in anything, is no favor to them.

 

But showing them, totally and honestly, with no "BS", about what you are and what you have attained from your own practices is a better context for a teaching relationship than leaving a bunch of unsubstantiated guesses and movie-like fantasies hanging in the air - unless it is convenient or necessary somehow that people "just believe" in such stuff, like when you need to make money off them with minimal culpability, etc, etc.

 

I think it is important that people actually see what they are training for, and that all accepted students see that you are actually where you have said you are taking them, and that there is always the understanding that we are all equal beings all just trying to be free and happy.

 

Without that, it's more like a "cult".

 

There are enough of those.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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Demonstrations of power can be a double edged sword.  (I assume) A good conman/magician performs better, faster and more spectacularly then a master.   On the other side, demonstrating 'powers' brings too much attention from the wrong sort of people.  I'm not even talking government spooks as much as kids who hold powers above enlightenment.  Not that there necessarily contradictory.

 

I've pointed out one master on youtube having to do a few tries to light up a diode.  A good magician can wave his hand and light up a building, a light bulb would be considered amateur level in stage magic.  So as always caveat emptor.  Best to have recommendations from someone with experience that you trust.

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Watched a guy make an airplane disappear once. I think he made the statue of liberty disappear, too. Awesome demonstration of special abilities.

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you guys are basically telling me i gotta give wang liping $4,000............im just gonna go...because i like to believe!

Edited by MooNiNite

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