Religion is the poison of Spirituality

[konchog uma]

aaron

 

i see you are often quick to say that anything which calls into question your logic or motivations is "rhetoric without substance" and i am not quite sure what kind of point you are trying to make. It is not much of a point to me, since in the case of your use of the phrase with cat, is was incorrect, as i tried to point out. In the case of your saying the same of my post, i can only respond that your original post provides all the substance needed to verify my rhetoric lol. So i don't really see what you are saying or what kind of proof you want. I am afraid that you will have to suffice with the internet and the insubstantial rhetoric that we all use to communicate with each other lol... the ideas contained within the words can be substantial to one who is willing to engage them, but i don't expect that of anyone, just a helpful suggestion

 

the idea of spiritual materialism is thus: that one can use spiritual ideas and beliefs to reinforce their own ego and self-grasping instead of reducing it. simple right? your original post, and your whole way of incessantly quoting master lao while tearing down everything else, is a perfect example of this. You clearly have faith in your own brand of daoism/laoism, and for that i am happy, but you seem to think that what you practice is so great that you can talk about not only particular religions, but religion as a general concept as being poison! This is a perfect example of egotistic "my-way-is-the-best-way" thinking that uses spirituality not to celebrate the diversity within the oneness that we all experience, but to denigrate and divide, celebrating dualistic thinking and spiritual elitism. So no matter how i hold your hand and walk you through the logical steps of your own spiritual materialism, it is still rhetoric! hahahaha and no matter what i say over the internet, you will still have no "substantial" proof of anything. I do hope you find this acceptable. Please do not feel a burning need to respond, as i have already read master lao, and am not really interested in any point of view on the subject that you have presented thus far. Furthermore i would like to thank marblehead for the dose of sanity, and take his advise and cease to post in this thread. I have made all the points that i would like to make, and anything more would be extraneous.

[skydog]

Religion is a concept anyways. Collections of thoughts bunched together, what seems to be that religion for one is not that religion for another, everyone wants to create their own religion and religions change, Buddha was not a buddhist, jesus was not a christian, muhhamed was not a muslim. Those are labels

[Marblehead]

Religion is a concept anyways. Collections of thoughts bunched together, what seems to be that religion for one is not that religion for another, everyone wants to create their own religion and religions change, Buddha was not a buddhist, jesus was not a christian, muhhamed was not a muslim. Those are labels

Hehehe. I just can't help myself. Please forgive.

 

And Marblehead "IS" an Atheist and I believe we Atheists existed before any other belief system was created.

[suninmyeyes]

I love freestyling and find religions stagnant . They stick to the same tradition most of the time blindly in the world of constant change. Trying to preserve it at almost any cost and with that growing more and more non flexible and further away from the soul of the religion.

However at the same I have drawn much inspiration from certain traditions and continue to pick and choose whatever resonates.

[skydog]

Hehehe. I just can't help myself. Please forgive.

 

And Marblehead "IS" an Atheist and I believe we Atheists existed before any other belief system was created.

 

No need to laugh, there is not much silly about what I said, sure I post silly stuff sometimes, well actually none of its silly just differing viewpoints on reality.

 

Concept does not have the same meaning as non truth, It is like a dream, dreams are a kind of reality too.

[Protector]

Ladies but mostly gentlemen since this is a Taoist site,

 

I feel like you are forcing yourselves to take sides in a fruitless argument that has been going on since the beginning of time, and so I present an alternative, all sides are idiots

 

The audience bursts into laughter and applause as I leave the stage to take a breather and think about things

This Thanksgiving, no wait too late for that, this Christmas I'm thankful even for the doggy dogmatic little people who walk back and forth without knowing why. All because I think of religion mostly as a place to keep my stuff.

 

They keep more knowledge then a normal person can accumulate in one lifetime. They themselves haven't lived even one such a lifetime and so cannot understand what is written in their books, but they love showing them to everyone. You can shout something and a lackey will bring you a bible and even recite it for you, that way you don't even need to use the internet if you feel like reading.

I can see so much in the book while everyone praises the cover but that's ok. I guess everyone has a place and pieces just fit into them and there's no reason to fight the system. It can rebuild itself just fine, if everyone magically becomes an atheist then someone eventually has to find god even when they don't know what that is. Maybe then it will be a serious thing to talk about.

 

Meanwhile, the song about Jamaica is almost over

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFi1BslgR0E

 

 

Before I get back on stage, there is something sad to talk about. Even though there is so much knowledge in the plain sight, it still needs to be discovered. Just looking at it is not enough, it's being pointed out by doggy dogs every day but that just turns people off. What there needs to be is some freedom to think, everyone needs space to breath or else they will just be a nervous schoolkid who were asked a question in the middle of a full classroom.

Knowledge also needs help to survive in the face of the elements. Simple taiji principle, right? Yin becomes yang and yang becomes yin. Ideas and mental things can't live in the material world just like that. Take a picture of the most beautiful person ever and show it around, when you see it for the first time it looks amazing but after a year it wont be surprising and amazing anymore. Books and ideas also don't seem to be a big deal, they're old and not everyone likes or remembers the old stuff. It just becomes static in the background.

 

Everything sucks I guess, but since it sucks so much that it makes it a challenge and fun. Easy to find things are worthless but things that you work for and finally have are precious. There are no exceptions, even doing something stupid for a long time is special to that person. No need to change that, the world is already perfect. I already enjoy many things in it and even silly threads like this.

Oh well, curtain call. You know, spirituality is personal but religion is for everybody.

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Brian]

Ladies but mostly gentlemen since this is a Taoist site,

 

<snip>

 

I am curious about this line. Are you suggesting that Taoism is inherently male or that Taoism produces gentility or something completely different?

 

Just wondering...

 

[gatito]

Hehehe. I just can't help myself. Please forgive.

 

And Marblehead "IS" an Atheist and I believe we Atheists existed before any other belief system was created.

 

Not agnostic yet?

[zerostao]

"When I have a terrible need of - dare I say the word - religion, then I go out and paint the stars."

-- Vincent Van Gogh

he also wrote;

"i prefer to paint human eyes rather than cathedrals"

ed>i couldnt spell eyes lol

Edited November 30, 2012 by zerostao

[Marblehead]

... dreams are a kind of reality too.

Yes they are. And peoples' religions are a kind of reality too.

[Protector]

I am curious about this line. Are you suggesting that Taoism is inherently male or that Taoism produces gentility or something completely different?

 

Just wondering...

 

It seems like every online spiritual community is mostly male driven

Except for wicca which is filled with weird teenage girls

[Marblehead]

Not agnostic yet?

I used to be one of them things but I finally realized I was only fooling myself and lying to other people.

[skydog]

Ladies but mostly gentlemen since this is a Taoist site,

 

I feel like you are forcing yourselves to take sides in a fruitless argument that has been going on since the beginning of time, and so I present an alternative, all sides are idiots

 

The audience bursts into laughter and applause as I leave the stage to take a breather and think about things

This Thanksgiving, no wait too late for that, this Christmas I'm thankful even for the doggy dogmatic little people who walk back and forth without knowing why. All because I think of religion mostly as a place to keep my stuff.

 

They keep more knowledge then a normal person can accumulate in one lifetime. They themselves haven't lived even one such a lifetime and so cannot understand what is written in their books, but they love showing them to everyone. You can shout something and a lackey will bring you a bible and even recite it for you, that way you don't even need to use the internet if you feel like reading.

I can see so much in the book while everyone praises the cover but that's ok. I guess everyone has a place and pieces just fit into them and there's no reason to fight the system. It can rebuild itself just fine, if everyone magically becomes an atheist then someone eventually has to find god even when they don't know what that is. Maybe then it will be a serious thing to talk about.

 

Meanwhile, the song about Jamaica is almost over

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFi1BslgR0E

 

 

Before I get back on stage, there is something sad to talk about. Even though there is so much knowledge in the plain sight, it still needs to be discovered. Just looking at it is not enough, it's being pointed out by doggy dogs every day but that just turns people off. What there needs to be is some freedom to think, everyone needs space to breath or else they will just be a nervous schoolkid who were asked a question in the middle of a full classroom.

Knowledge also needs help to survive in the face of the elements. Simple taiji principle, right? Yin becomes yang and yang becomes yin. Ideas and mental things can't live in the material world just like that. Take a picture of the most beautiful person ever and show it around, when you see it for the first time it looks amazing but after a year it wont be surprising and amazing anymore. Books and ideas also don't seem to be a big deal, they're old and not everyone likes or remembers the old stuff. It just becomes static in the background.

 

Everything sucks I guess, but since it sucks so much that it makes it a challenge and fun. Easy to find things are worthless but things that you work for and finally have are precious. There are no exceptions, even doing something stupid for a long time is special to that person. No need to change that, the world is already perfect. I already enjoy many things in it and even silly threads like this.

Oh well, curtain call. You know, spirituality is personal but religion is for everybody.

 

 

If something exists how can it be wrong?

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[gatito]

I used to be one of them things but I finally realized I was only fooling myself and lying to other people.

 

<Sighs> Here we go again

 

So you have proof that God does not exist?

[Marblehead]

<Sighs> Here we go again

 

So you have proof that God does not exist?

Are you really sure you want to go here?

 

No, I do not have proof that any god does not exist. However, there is absolutely no proof that any exist. So why would I or anyone else believe in something that there is no proof of its existance? Isn't that called having illusions and delusions?

 

I used to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy and I even considered the possibility of the existance of the Great Pumpkin. Yes, I know there really are witches (my second wife was one).

 

Now, understand, I still believe in my Pegacorn. But I know it really isn't real.

 

Oh, sure, there are lots of stories about various gods. Nearly every society created them in order to explain the unexplainable. Personally, I don't need to try to explain the unexplainable. If I don't know what or why I simply say "I don't know." But there are some things that I simply must say "They do not exist." Zombies don't really exist. Ghosts don't really exist. Immortals don't really ..., wait, I will hold on that one as I don't want to irritate those who believe there are.

 

Science gives me the answers I need in my life. Religion and the belief in a god only kept me confused and ignorant.

 

Okay. Are you ready to rumble?

[Marblehead]

Oh!, I need to add that I don't believe aliens have visited Earth nor do I believe anyone has ever seen a space ship operated by aliens.

[skydog]

Oh!, I need to add that I don't believe aliens have visited Earth nor do I believe anyone has ever seen a space ship operated by aliens.

Oh!, I need to add that I don't believe aliens have visited Earth nor do I believe anyone has ever seen a space ship operated by aliens.

 

Disbelief is a form of belief sometimes. What your actually saying is I believe spirits/ghosts dont exist. I believe a great being/god doesnt exist. I believe aliens dont exist. You are free to believe what you want just thought I would point that out.

[Marblehead]

Disbelief is a form of belief sometimes. What your actually saying is I believe spirits/ghosts dont exist. I believe a great being/god doesnt exist. I believe aliens dont exist. You are free to believe what you want just thought I would point that out.

No you are trying to twist my words into having unfounded beliefs just like those who believe in things that there is no proof of existing.

 

Bad logic on your part.

 

Gods do not exist. Is that better for you?

 

Aliens (life on other planets throughout the universe) may exist. I don't know one way or the other.

 

Ghosts do not exist.

 

Zombies do not exist.

 

Santa Claus does not exist.

 

Easter Bunny does not exist.

 

Tooth Fairy does not exist.

 

You wanna' agrue with me? Prove that they exist.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Marblehead

[skydog]

I once lost a tooth and got a pound under my pillow lol..but jokes aside.. Its kind of like the idea of 9/11 A lot of people say bin laden/terrorists did it, some people say it was an inside job, none of these people really actually know I suspect apart from a very small amount of people despite massive amounts of "evidence"... I prefer to discuss profound topics, Like who knows what happens after death...maybe there is some kind of intelligent creator, strange how the universe works so well maybe we use the word tao others use the word allah, maybe there are spirits, in fact from qigong practice i find it quite likely, in fact pretty much believe the idea..but yeh peace man im off to bed,

[Brian]

 

<snip>

 

...Ghosts don't really exist...

</snip>

 

I used to believe that, too.

 

[Stosh]

_{Just my opinion here but I see a disbelief ( mental refutation of a thing )}

_{not really a equivalent to a belief (mental positive affirmation of a thing)}

_{other than perhaps semantically.}

 

_{Because it seems that having some sort of particular proof about its existence is a stronger argument}

_{than saying one has no proof.}

 

_{For instance a bigfoot hair should be discovered to be inconsistent with other hairs}

_{whereas not having a hair ... one cant say that the- nonexistent hair- is that of a pig rat or a bigfoot.}

 

_{Yes , One can say 'aliens dont come to earth to probe folks' and so I disbelieve they exist.}

_{(or- I affirmatively believe that they clearly do not exist.)}

_{and yes , one can say that there is no proof that they dont come here to probe folks , so they may.}

 

_{I choose to say they dont and its illogical to say they do, unless one has some verifiable proof.}

[Marblehead]

I once lost a tooth and got a pound under my pillow lol..but jokes aside.. Its kind of like the idea of 9/11 A lot of people say bin laden/terrorists did it, some people say it was an inside job, none of these people really actually know I suspect apart from a very small amount of people despite massive amounts of "evidence"... I prefer to discuss profound topics, Like who knows what happens after death...maybe there is some kind of intelligent creator, strange how the universe works so well maybe we use the word tao others use the word allah, maybe there are spirits, in fact from qigong practice i find it quite likely, in fact pretty much believe the idea..but yeh peace man im off to bed,

Yeah, my Mom had me convinced that there was a Tooth Fairy 'cause I got a quarter for every tooth I put under my pillow when I was a tot. Now I have no teeth and I had to pay to get rid of the last remaining (as well as pay for my dentures).

 

I don't normally talk about 9/11 and won't here either.

 

Now remember, I am speaking only for myself and my understandings. Others are free to have their own understandings.

 

What happens after death? The eternal question because no one has come back to tell us about it. I have not much time to wonder about those things because I have plenty to do taking care of my gardens and ponds as well as the many other thing I need and/or enjoy doing.

[Marblehead]

I used to believe that, too.

 

No, I am not going to ask you when you saw whoever's ghost you saw.