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I'm having a little trouble understanding the basis for your post. It feels like something that is trying to emerge from the mist. I can almost make out the shape, but not quite yet. I feel you're on to something probably very profound, but it might be at that special 'place' where words can't describe it. I too think about stuff like this all the time. So much of us is filled with space, not matter. And what makes this any realer than a dream which is also projected onto our basic consciousness? I just don't know if there's an answer that we have access to. We are nothing but our conditioning - until we get to the place where we realize that, and at that point we can start thinking and behaving in alternate ways. When I walk the dogs, I have gotten into the habit of trying not to label anything - to realize that the air we breathe is also a type of matter, only not visible to us. I try to look at everything as all connected with no differentiation. Once, about 35 years ago, I was driving across the desert - which is a bit of a mind deadening thing to do anyways. Almost hypnotizing. But suddenly I saw all these concentric lines attaching everything to everything else - surrounding the trees, the houses, the clouds, the people, the cars - everything. It was all the same thing, acting in concert. And for an instant, I was given a glimpse of how it all worked. I remember saying to myself "Aah! So that's how it works!" I truly saw it. And then, the next moment, it was all forgotten. It slipped away - it's still in there somewhere, and I suspect that I get access to it only when needed.

Not throwing stones in my own glass house here, but I see more and more how conditioned we are by our social upbringing. I have discussed this before in a charming story of how Robert Thurman's Tibetan teacher told him that he did not need to meditate so much because as a pre-programmed westerner, he could never drop his conditioned world view in order to become enlightened. bet that was a real knee slapper for him. I see so many spiritual seekers, and so called "awakened or enlightened" folks who still hold the boolean "all or nothing" , "yes or no", "real, or unreal, world views. If something is not real, like a dream, we call it Illusion, or that it really does not exist. If something is Real, (like my tv remote or smart phone) LOL, then we say that "this is real, material, we can all see it and discuss it". But when I was younger, and had dreams where I did not know I was dreaming, I could sit with a group of people at a table, and we agreed that we were all there, maybe eating food, that I could taste, feel, and that world was as "real" as this world, until I awoke, and saw that it was now, "unreal" or "Just a dream". So my mind was and is preconditioned to believe all or nothing, real/unreal, right/wrong. Can something be both real and unreal at the same time? do the terms "real, unreal" make any sense? for that matter, do the terms, "right/wrong", good/bad make sense as a mental label.? I have seen very bad people do good things, and vice versa. I have seen dreams that I "knew" were real at the time, but then upon awaking, "Knew" that they were unreal. Maybe just letting go of these ideas and beliefs, and just viewing the universe, life, everything as it unfolds without making a mental label for them. doubt we can let go completely, but maybe a little at a time. who knows?

The pictures on the altar. Yes, Mantak Chia's methods might make you slightly genital in your focus, and there are Vipassana groups where you are forbidden to do yoga or qigong, but in between that you will find many practices where you will have a harder time to see the differences.

In my experience: That is the reason for initiations, the fear challenges a person and when they are ready; they have to break through it, then receive the rewards of that initiation, and temporarily blissing out before going on to over come the next challenge. Not a direct quote: I think that it was the ancient sage Rumi that gave this big Hint and said something like: I lead you to the gate of heaven, then when a demon pops up you all run away.

The main form in the school is Wuji Gong. For Qigong practice I mean. In the begining of the teaching we are learning Emei Qigong System has some specific rules. Such as in first 2 levels we mostly work on ourselves. Like %70 to self development %30 to help others. Coz Emei Qigong has two different disciplines. Taoism and Buddhism. Uses both traditions works. Yes you will find mostly explained and also clearly explained informations about the exercises and practices. Most of them not open to all. If you were a student of any Emei Qigong teacher, the knowledge will open to you. For all levels of Emei Qigong practices I can easly say that you/we have to practice too much. Like every other practices. Why I chose this path? I was a student of David Verdesi and some other else's. I realized that I don't like power based systems. I am looking for enlightment. I only need developing my wisdom, nourising myself, and realize my true being. The Emei Qigong is very simple. So simple but also deeper. After you practiced for a while you will understand many things about Qigong and cultivating the inner and outer parts or self. Not only cultivating Qi. If we were talking about cultivating Qi, what we will plen to do with it? Having some super powers like John Chang or Jiang Feng etc, or becoming a good person? If we weren't using the cultivated Qi to help others, will we want to become an immortal? I simply chose developing myself and helping others. This is my reason to choose Emei Qigong. Also Grandmaster Fu Weizhong, really so so kind teacher. I couldn't find any question that he couldn't answer. When my questions were silly, he alsways replied me in a polite way ans he said: "You don't need this information on your teachings or on your practices, if you'd like to become a disciple or a monk you will learn." Grandmaster Fu Weizhong's mission is teaching the Emei Qigong's treasure to the world. There are too many jewels like Emei Qigong I think. Most of you already found and you already started to practice. Each way has own jewels. They are waiitng us to find whee they are hidin.

I empathise with your rational self interest if little else. Lets see what develops after tonights vote.

had an interesting event happen two nights ago , and a lot nicer than the shadow people ! was lying in bed when I felt this energy coming in and around my body , then this tiny little sphere of golden white light , about 1 cm in size started to float around me, was quite beautiful !

If this topic or this questions still alive, I'd like to reply. I am former advanced student of Grandmaster Fu Wei Zhong, 13th Lineage Holder of Emei Qigong School.

Hi, Good systems are internally consistent and use terminology and some more subtle ways of communicating in a way that adds up to whatever the goal of that system is. If you mix systems you can get confused by overt and subtle differences which might impede progress. Having said that if you yourself are clear about what you are doing it is perfectly possible to study different systems and learn from them all. It all depends on whether you want to do the work and have clear enough understanding to do this. For many its not a great idea 'cos you can end up with a mush which doesn't really work. I don't think its about dogma as such but more consistency and application. Of course you must make your own mind up about this.

Death is coming? Well quite frankly it can't do me worse things than life has done. Soo I'll be here drinking tea and enjoying some butter biscuits and getting a head, while you run buddy. There is no running away from the death, buddy. But damn biscuits and bjs are not so out of reach if you are polite, handsome and/or have money.

Healing of bones is a technique common to several medical qigong traditions. Most in the west find this difficult to believe until they have it done personally. My clinical results over a 35 year period demonstrated a very high result in acceleration of the bones knitting back together and always immediately gave pain relief to the client. The acceleration of healing was difficult for the orthopedic doctors to wrap their head around. They just shook their heads in amazement. But for practitioners familiar with the techniques utilized in the hospitals of China, we find this to be just another day at the clinic. Discuss

Anecdote support: I had a local 5 Ancestors master who goes by the surname Ho, i don’t know his first name but he’s known in town for his mediine skills. He help me out with a broken fibula some ten years back, i went to see him after getting screws put in to re-set the bone and he did three sessions of acupuncture as soon as the cast came off and the stitches were taken out. He treated me in his martial arts supplies store, i was on a chair and he sat on a kung fu bench. He drew dark blood out by hypodermic puncture and suction cup after, set needles in points that i had no idea what they were at the time nor can recall, more suction cups here and there, he did some healing through his hands (it unnerved me seriously since his hands were radiating intense heat during, it wasn’t just warm, his hands were like being in the proximity of a scolding hot kettle an then my leg responded with warmth) and wanted me to use a shaolin medicine paste that i couldnt afford so he sold me some excellent Dit Da Jiao that i massaged twice daily with for a week or so. On the bus home from the first sessioni started crying, i was in a lot of inner turmoil but it passed in an hour. God knows what he actually did but it worked. He demonstrated some projecting by making my beard tingle, said hair was like antennae for qi, cracked a few jokes about it. We talked a lot for the next two sessions, he did his thing and said if i still had a problem after the third time he’d treat me for free for as many sessions as needed because it should have worked already. When i went to rehabilitation training limping along with just ome crutch for support the physiotherapist was skeptical as fuck, asked twice for my name and looked at me funny. I asked whats wrong and she said that i was either joking or there must be some error in the dates written down in the file for when the fracture happened and when my cast had been opened. I told her i’d seen Ho sifu for acupuncture and she gave a knowing ”ahaa...” To her it seemed as though i’d been doing physiotherapy for at least a month already. She was very secretive about telling me she knew for a fact that even randomized acupuncture was giving off very fascinating results but since it’s still unaccepted officially she’d loose her job if her boss heard her talk positively about acupuncture. It took about a year to get back to decent mobility but i was doing basic kung fu again within six months of the cast coming off. Due to deaths in the family i had to quit physio so full recovery took me a few years total, i still can’t run without massive pain after but i’ve understood that without Ho Sifus help and my own careful qigong and kung fu approach to healing it would have been far more busted. Cheers!

Recent discoveries about my craft due to DBs cultivation. All my life I have been training/practicing doings workings within the world of spirits. But I have just recently learned/experienced a new phenomenon to me. What is called the practice of dream viewing/remote viewing, and a master can actually project a dream presents. I have heard of it, and even read a post about masters doing it, but I always thought that it didn't seem like much value was in it for me. And so it would seem that the lesson that I have learned: Recently I have perceived visitors to my domain bubble who have been viewing me from time to time. But not in the usual spirit projection way. These masters are able to remain *unseen by me and only perceived, this is interesting and has taught me that masters can remote view areas within the earthly plane similar to the way that I view areas on the spirit plane. What makes this important is that I can now study this practice without thinking that it is as I was taught of no value to me. *as a child I was damaged in a certain area and I was not able to easily put effort into manifesting and long range viewing of things on the physical plane of existence, and so my spirit guides focused my training, practice, toward being totally focused on the spirit plane/unseen would. In many cultures, the shaman also fulfills the role of the psychopomp. This may include not only accompanying the soul of the dead, but also to help at birth, to introduce the newborn child's soul to the world.[5](p36) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopomp

hahaha ya im not ugly enough to get head ^ A EDIT: nvm i didnt see the *of before reach...

And while we all wait perhaps we might consider that the 'powers-that-be' will be quite happy to cause absolute chaos to get what they want! They don't care about the people and they never did, that's their greatest trick.

I don't think I am particularly blinkered. I'm pragmatic I think. I voted Remain but it was not because I love the EU and its 'shadowy figures'. It was purely thoughts of the economic impact of leaving the single market coupled with self interest (cos I live sur le continent and I don't want any of the conditions on my residency to change). I have come to accept that the referendum should be honoured - I can't see any other option. But I want some security on a slow transition with minimum turbulence which I felt the deal for all its faults gave us. I do not loose sleep over the back-stop and these other issues which I consider a red herring anyway. I think that Corbyn has put party political interests over those of the country - in fact he is so bumbling and incoherent that he is making May look positively statesman like. I thought she was actually quite good in the House yesterday and while I consider her to have been quite incompetent and sometimes poisonous as Home Sec. for instance, I can see that the situation is now more or less unmanageable. It seems to me that this is analogous to war time and there should be a some sense of national unity to get the best deal we can in the face of the EU who are at the end of the day our future competitors. God save the Queen.

wow. don't know who these "advanced mediators" are, but from my experience, meditation, is a bridge to both the physical body,(focus breath work, hiking in the hills, etc) the earth, and everything unfolding in this moment. nothing is left out. don't go into a "mindless trance" just see thoughts as part of the whole, so thoughts are not good or bad, or no more or less important than this suchness of unfolding. very simple. nothing special. Folks who work meditation to "bless out" or become disconnected from this amazing life seem to have issues with fear, and avoidance, I think the cute neo non duality word is "spiritual bypassing" I call it fear to be alive.

Despite it being an extremely popular topic, the authentic Daoist teachings on sex and sexuality represent about 2.5% of the tradition. The main difference between Buddhist and Daoist practice as I see it - Daoism is more practical. The approach is to prepare the body and mind through working firstly on the physical, then energetic, then consciousness levels. It’s basically a way of making your body-mind extremely efficient, strong, resilient, naturally calm and centred, and full of energy before starting any meditative practice. When you begin meditative training, a lot of what you need to happen, just happens automatically with no effort. Your mind is automatically relatively still and quiet. You have enough energy to sit in perfect posture and concentrate fully for hours on end. You generally progress much faster as all the initial layers of crap are already cleared out. Saying all this, I’ve trained with several Buddhist teachers that approach their training in a similar way. However these are quite rare and unusual. I’ve also met dozens of meditators with many decades of experience - but when you check their meditation all you ‘hear’ is the sedated ‘noise’ of a mind that’s dull and mired in some pleasant trance state. The pitfalls of Daoist practice are many too, of course. Particularly if the base desires are not transformed - then you get people who stray off the spiritual path and blindly feed their base desires (hence all the sex stuff).

Good.

I am no more a Taoist by virtue of reading the Lao Tzu than I am a physicist from reading Einstein's The Meaning of Relativity. - Harold D Roth, Original Tao

Oneness, From the articles. "Consciousness which is overflowing with bliss, even when considered individually, attains in these spectacles a state of unity and, because of that, a state of full and perfect blissfulness" .."In the practice of the circle (cakra) one must adore all the bodies of all those present because since they have all penetrated in the fullness of consciousness they are in reality as if they were our own body." "When such a disciple sits before his Master, all he has to do is to gaze at him and be aware of his elevated state to feel the fragrance (vdsand) of the Master's transcendental consciousness extending spontaneously within him." "So gracious is he that, by transferring his own nature to those whose consciousness is pure, they became one with him at his [mere] sight." "The disciple's consciousness thus suddenly expands within him like the violent and rapid spread of poison through the body (bhujarigagaralavat). He thus becomes one with his Master in the unifying bliss of universal consciousness and so, whether his eyes are open or closed, continues to enjoy the same state constantly." What is being described is not a trance or just feeling the presence of someone but a Master that can share his being with or without intent for the benefit of others.

To chill heart and hand Action without emotion Thought without feeling

Valkyries swooping. Huginn and Muninn watch on Mimir's well beckons

https://www.medhajournal.com/non-dual-awareness-is-without-attributes-but-what-about-love/

In Saivite terms Shakti is Love, and Siva can never be disconnected from Shakti! (which is unconditional, beyond karma, ego, and the dictates of purely human reasoning abilities, thus Love is joined with revealing Grace, beyond normal understanding, or any forms of mental containment and dissection)

Can be dangerous Valhalla warriors clash Odin smiles anew

Taken for wisdom Well meaning words from a fool Can be dangerous

That looks like Master Ueshiba and his students

My answer is with the assumption that you are asking me if an Awakened teacher that does not have a lineage as you have mentioned above can - in my view - take on a lineage with the power and Grace expressed above. Yes - but - it is not necessarily the case. If one is actually Awake and abiding in Divine Essence - and they were moved to adopt such a lineage - the chances are quite high that none of what was mentioned would be a problem in the least. This is entirely in the makeup of what is manifest in that teacher. For some seekers very little guidance is needed and for some close proximity to a teacher is needed - for many a teacher and considerable guidance is needed. Some teachers will not be inclined to open transmission and in fact you might sit right next to them and not feel much at all - unless they open. And even then - the student awakens when it’s time and the teacher does nothing other than reside in Presence. Some teachers are inclined to a very wide variety of happenings and institutions spring up around them. Some teachings are very trance oriented and some teachers don’t trance at all and would not teach trance. Grace is over thought by students - we are all in Grace - yet wilfully sidestep it in the illusion. Grace dawns upon Awakening. Many aspects of Abiding Awakening appear to be Enlightenment while they are quite early on aspects of settled Awakened being. Even many absurdly “high” levels appear to be aspects of a settled abiding Presence. One does not have to be “Enlightened” in order to be at many levels assumed to be reserved only for those at Enlightenment. And then one can argue - or bring up the question - is there such state in its entirety or is it also and ongoing expansion. It is safe to say at some point one has entered Enlightenment - when one knows nothing it would be difficult to say what that would be.

Yes, something can be both real and unreal at the same time. For example: A mother looks at her young child and says "I love you." The words are not real. They have no mass and take up no space, yet hearing them deeply moves the child. Don't believe me? Perhaps the mother look at her young child and says "I hate you. I wish you would die." These, too, are just words with no mass and occupying no space. Yet these words carry life long impact on the child who hears them. These words cascade outward from the point of utterance, affecting many people for many years to come.

In a full Awakening suffering ends. This does not mean either Enlightenment nor the end of work or change or hardship - suffering is the result of attachment/willfulness and when it ceases then even residual “attachment” is un-attached - one does not meander into futures and worry and extrapolations and mind loops and willfulness. (Though this does vary - certainly upon the level of Abidance - many waver considerably in the beginning years - particularly those that have been assisted and or engineered). You state above: ”To me, this awakening is just the start of the journey. Long ways to go afterwards. The challenges after the so called awakenings are much higher than before. One needs to let go and keep expanding to cope up with them. When they resist to let go, they suffer. Divine guidance is essential after the awakening.” I have not been speaking of “Awakenings” - that is a relative perspective and has nothing to do with actual Awakening. In the quote above it is not spoken from an Awakened state /Self. The push of willfulness to do, seek, improve has disappeared - not hidden - it is no longer. Divine Guidance/ Grace becomes one’s happening. Residuals of patterned “doing” and willfulness may still be found here and there - in fact in my experience so much was gone that it was surprising sometimes when things would emerge still patterned - but with very little to zero attachment to the experiencing of it. As an example - about two years ago someone stole around $10,000 from me. I was unaware that I could still become so angry - yet the anger did not linger long but it would come back when I saw or met with the person. It was a process that I watched over a considerable time. In another instance I found out I still had some automated negative feeling toward my father - but they had almost no energy on them. Then one day - I found out that all residual patterns toward my father had vanished entirely. I was not willfully surrendering, not “letting go” as in a “doing”. Far more often I am overcome with Gratitude and must in many cases sit or pull over the car or walk to solitude. Once when driving I pulled over and my wife asked what was up and I explained I could no longer drive and needed to close my eyes - not because of tiredness - the energies were incredible and the eyes became faucets. I have had meditation sessions where after getting up I have long streaks of white going down from my eyes - when I pushed on them they cracked - it was dried salt crystallized in tear streams. In the abiding Awakened /Self Divine Guidance is realized. It is what one is. The compunction to do ceases - it is a transition to happening - unimpeded intuitive presence. Movement in perfection. Imperfection is perfect - trying to bend it to one’s will has ceased. Constant attempts to push one’s projections as a square peg into a round hole is over. But the constant expansion is devastatingly immense - it nearly drops one to one’s knees and it does not stop at least it has not for some six years and shows no sign of letting up. I do nothing - some faint portion somewhat expects doing to resume - yet no doing is taking place - happening is taking place - Presence. I practice Qi Gong - my “students” practice with me though it appears I am also teaching Qi Gong. Constantly the subtle bodies expand and faint residuals fall away. I would agree “work” continues - in Awakening there is no doing in the “work”. And it certainly is possible to appear to go backwards or in fact go backwards or simply appear to be somewhat static in residual patterns.

An extraordinarily subtle point 😎

Well said.

"Death" is inactive. It cannot "do". Like the way Dark is not the reverse of Light, but merely the absence of it. Inactivity is "no activity". "No activity" requires no "Lord" to conduct it. -VonKrankenhaus

It is very different from “experiences” in general. I have had many of what would be called mystical experiences but Awakening is very different - if anything it would be somewhat close to taking mushrooms and morphine together but much more intense and sustained and beautiful.

KS? Not really sure what you are taking about with the words you are using. (kundalini shakti?)

Teaches or has become One like Siva and transmits KS? Works by Grace and has the powers of creation? Can perform the Rites of Adoration?

And, as far as I've witnessed there is little difference, save in the pretty words used, between mundane ego and spiritual ego.. it's just a prettier looking cloak.

I agree on the very considerable shift. Infact that is what it exactly is. A considerable shift and when it happens rapidly in some, it seems to leave a strong impression of a new state, or even mislead some to think they are enlightened. Is the person free from all sufferings and afflictions as Buddha stated? The answer seems to be no. To me, this awakening is just the start of the journey. Long ways to go afterwards. The challenges after the so called awakenings are much higher than before. One needs to let go and keep expanding to cope up with them. When they resist to let go, they suffer. Divine guidance is essential after the awakening.

...

hmmmmmm. so i take it that you want all of us to know that you are awakened? Just pulling you non-existent, non-ego leg. I have also had experiences that transcend description, but just seeing the connection to everything, no gaps, and the amazing wonder of it all is as close as i can come to speaking of it. With that said, I don't have a fucking clue what the term, or word "awakening" means. For me, it is a label folks put on themselves or the so called "spiritual teachers" that gives them a "special" standing in the spiritual community, (such as it is), that says, "I made it, now I know shit". LOL Been at this cat and pony show for some time, talked to adyashanti, and others, and never seen anyone who "destroyed ego". Maybe someone has, but then again, they are probably not posting on these kinds of links and talking through there asses like I am right now. Ego is as much a part of the human experience, (at least for me) as eating, shitting, laughing, crying and everything else that makes us human. For me, it is just that this so called ego, doesn't have the power I once gave it. while it is still a part of me, it is not in the drivers seat, but others experiences could be very different. who knows.

What is your definition of Awakened?

As you already mentioned, they are clouded in a veil of darkness. That doesn't mean there isn't good within them. Infact, every single atom in this univere contains both positive and negative. If you can learn to focus on the positive aspect, you also have the evermore capability of allowing that to be more fully realised by you. And the way to focus on the positive aspect, is to learn how you feel, emotionally, as you are focusing, that then can always help you and guide you towards the more fuller and greater realisation of all that is ment for you to be good and better evermore.

You have been communicating well in this thread - in what I'm guessing is a second language for you. Just something to consider.

yes. fasting

Welcome to DB. sorry to hear about what is happening to you. First of all, what you are going through is not rare. I have known several people who got the kundalini energy going, and had everything from massive migraine headaches to all kinds of negative experiences. Not an expert in kundalini but have had some kundalini crea experiences, and was fortunate to have non harmful ones. It almost sounds like what in zen we call "meditation sickness" which is a form of this kind of energy. I found that going outside, working in a garden. walking in the wilderness, touching the earth, the trees, helps center oneself, and kind of helps ground out the energy. If this does not help, maybe a very good acupuncturist can help balancing your energy. Our family has a good acupuncturist who has done wonders for our kids and my wife on many issues. and they know how to feel where energy is blocked, and help restore the circulation. hope you feel better soon.

There are bone stim devices that they use in Western medicine. I recall reading that it has quite good results, but a friend tried it and it didn't work for her...look into it. Ya Mu appears to have not visited the forum for over a year now...but maybe he'll return if you private message him (because it'll likely notify his email).

1 tin of sardines every day for a week makes for massively accelerated bone healing. Yes there are some ZZ postures for opening the shoulders detailed in Mark Cohen's book. One of them is Wufi with the hands at the side so that the thumbs touch the centre line of the side of the leg .... for a few minutes then .... move hands back so the back of the hands rest underneath the crest of the pelvis, in the depression below. The back of the hands rest there at the top of the buttocks without the shoulders lifting and the effect is for the shoulder to be slightly opened. It's a posture that is not used in general but for beginners with closed shoulders. Other postures detailed in the book.

“I am not strange. I am just not normal.” ― Salvador Dalí

There is much to learn from everyone if we can get past politics and ego. I have no interest in arguing, I just hope my friends in Martial arts could research , train and communicate and grow without all the ego B.S and politics.