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Oh deary dear. Was it Richard Feynman who said if you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don’t understand quantum mechanics. What chance does a shiatsu person stand and why would they think they are incorporating it into their practice.

In order to perfect your meditation it is very important to not stop thinking.

Yeah, that sums up my first impression too. Definitely eyeroll-worthy. What's next -- quantum cinnamon buns? quantum lip gloss?

When I asserted -- as I have for the past 25+ years -- that qi is the medium and message of meaningful change, I didn't say it lightly. A somewhat (but not quite) similar dual understanding which some phenomena merit causes physicists to refer to elementary particles as both particles and waves. It's not something an everyday mind steeped in "either/or" dualities of observable macro phenomena wraps itself around with ease. Could it be that your shiatsu teacher may have focused on the "message" part of what qi "is and does" but either overlooked or decided to ignore the "medium" part. Qi is both, and it is neither by itself. It's a medium/message of change, simultaneously. A bit like coffee from that old maxim: when you boil an egg in water it gets hard, when you boil a carrot in water it gets soft, but when you boil ground coffee in water it changes the water. Qi changes the medium it operates in while changing itself. Qi does travel though meridians not unlike that -- except it doesn't have to be a substance in order to both undergo and engender change... it's the pattern that travels -- and substances encountered on the way align (or resist aligning) with the pattern. Patterns underlie both matter and energy. Also sprach The Ta Chuan aka The Great Treatise on the Changes.

Hi everyone, I am a beginner and I am very interested in Qigong and Tai Chi. I haven't started practicing yet, just reading about it. I just discovered this website and it's nice to see so much information here. Can't wait to get started! Nice to meet like minded individuals.

@ChiDragon Over the years here, I have always appreciated your commentary and the topics you've selected to discuss here. You've led me to look at things differently. I don't think any of us have it all worked out yet, but, over the years here combined with practice has yielded some real nuggets along the way I expect that to continue on for a good while longer

One of the first arguments I ever had on here ( probably in 2007) was with someone who said they were channeling black hole energy. Go figure.

there are DDJ ‘translations’ around with chapters called “quantum” this or that; totally bizarre imo. Trying to find an example, I saw Laozi inspired Bohr. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321280738_Bohr_Quantum_Physics_and_the_Laozi

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I believed that ... until you said it

Love it ! Cosmic massage hippy at markets ; ''Would you like a chakra balance ?'' Me; '' No thank you .'' '' Why not ? '' '' Because I have spent several decades in yogic and magical meditation, practice adjustment and fine tuning of them .. I would not want any random person 'balancing' them for me , even if they could ..... thank you ... have a nice day .''

yes, that '' dont dob me in at the judgement hall '' idea is strange , but you offer an interesting insight . The 'ab' seems to be the seat of the 'Immortal Osiris ' ( that part of the psyche that survives death ) ? Then again if it is the ab that survives death .... it now appears it carries a lot of dross with it that either needs to be silenced or purified ? I have always thought the destruction of the 'heavy heart' was a bit over the top ? I used to interpret that as 'try again ' ... back for another attempt / incarnation . But perhaps a LOT of the psyche does survive death ..... into the 'hall of judgement ' (or 'adjustment ' as Crowley changed the relevant Tarot trump title to ; Justice > Adjustment ) and it is but the Ab that 'goes on' beyond this (or is cast down or returns ) . This might make the 'hall of adjustments ' and the 'purging ' of the heart the 2nd death .... then the 2nd life begins . Then there would be a 3rd 'death' ... through the 'gate of Nut ' to become an 'immortal star ' ? I think this was originally only the King's privileged , then those close to him and then eventually every person's (in some way ) ? I cant see from my modern perspective that King Charlie is the only one that is 'going to make it ' . .

I´m not sure what her understanding was. She changed her own style of practice from Zen Shiatsu to Pauline Sasaki´s Quantum Shiatsu so that may have something to do with her evolving view. (As an aside, I´m generally not a fan of spiritual and wellness modalities that call themselves "quantum" this and "quantum" that though, who knows, perhaps the term makes sense in this context.) Clearly, this is a complicated subject and I don´t think popular views do it justice. I asked Gemini how the conception of chi differs between practitioners of Zen Shiatsu and Quantum Shiatsu and got this interesting answer... The primary difference in the view of Chi (or Ki in Japanese) between Zen Shiatsu and Quantum Shiatsu is one of dimension and focus: 1. Zen Shiatsu's View of Chi (Ki) Zen Shiatsu, pioneered by Shizuto Masunaga, views Chi primarily through the lens of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) principles, emphasizing its flow through the meridian system and its manifestation in the physical and psychological body. Dimensionality: Focuses on the Chi that flows through the 12 main meridians as pathways that connect to the organ systems and emotional/mental states. Quality and Balance: Chi is diagnosed in terms of Kyo (deficiency/empty) and Jitsu (excess/fullness) along these meridian lines, particularly through palpation of the hara (abdomen). Treatment Goal: The aim is to harmonize and balance the flow of Chi by tonifying Kyo (deficient) areas and sedating Jitsu (excessive) areas along the meridians to restore the body's natural energetic balance. 2. Quantum Shiatsu's View of Chi (Ki) Quantum Shiatsu, developed by Pauline Sasaki, expands the concept of Chi by incorporating ideas from Quantum Physics and the understanding of a multi-dimensional energetic body. Dimensionality: Views Chi not just as flowing through meridians in the physical body, but as multi-dimensional, holographic energetic fields that extend beyond the physical form, including the "Light Body." Quality and Coherence: Focuses on the activation of anti-pathogenic Ki (healthy Chi), emphasizing the body's inherent health and ability to heal, rather than solely focusing on eliminating pathological or problematic Chi. Treatment Goal: The goal is to achieve "Quantum Coherence"—a process of unifying the energy within the physical body with the surrounding expansive energy field. The treatment aims to access and amplify this higher, vital energy and foster the dominance of the Light Body, often using faster and lighter touch to access these non-physical dimensions. This approach may also simplify the meridian system into a "One Meridian system," reflecting the interconnectedness of all energetic flows.

As for me, I'm not a hostage to modernism (did you mean modernity? 'cause modernism I don't have any use for, except maybe Cézanne but he was not quite that yet, just the transitional phase from art to all that nonsense). Rather, I'm trying to be an interpreter/translator when I resort to modern analogies. The reason for this is, I try to talk to real hostages-to-modernity in the parlance I hope/believe they know well. I know other languages too but those are not exactly widespread here, so I mostly keep them to myself, except for an occasional song of my people -- meow... meow... meowwwwwwwww....

Stock market contrarians will tell you that by the time ordinary people on the street are saying to invest in X, it´s time to get out. Opinions are like that too: if everybody believes it, it´s probably no longer true.

Not you too, traitor!

Lindy Ferringo, an old shiatsu teacher of mine, once said that she no longer thought chi "traveled" through the meridians. Which isn´t to say that she didn´t believe in chi or the meridian channels because she did. I was intrigued by the statement and wish that I´d asked her more. Maybe the MCO exists but the idea of some sort of esoteric substance traveling through it is a misunderstanding.

The Lovers I was always afraid of the next card the psychic would turn over for us— Forgive me for not knowing how we were every card in the deck. --Timothy Liu

Does wifi exist? Is it a substance? Is your phone born with its Uber app? With its Instagram app? How about Amazon? Is your credit card stuffed with paper dollars and coins, which are substances? How do you fit them in there? Do your hundred dollar bills physically lose weight when there's inflation in the country? Does your bank account gain weight when you make a deposit? Does it lose weight when you make a payment? How about energy? What energy exactly does it gain or lose? And so on. The world does not just consist of substances and energies. The world is also choke full of changes. Changes can be meaningful or meaningless. Qi is the medium and message of meaningful change. The signifier of meaningful change is a pattern. MCO is not a substance and not "energy." (Oh the pop use of the term by folks who don't understand Newtonian mechanics, let alone quantum mechanics!) MCO is a pattern of movement of qi. A bit like an app. Sometimes it installs itself after you push the right button. Sometimes people push wrong buttons and it doesn't. But once it's there you know it's there. Just like Uber. You can get a ride if you have pushed the right button to install the Uber app. Does Uber exist? Do you carry a little inflatable car in your phone for it to exist? A hundred thousand little cars? ??? And yet you can get a ride if you have the app. Also sprach Taomeow.

In SKY system manipura is fire element, heat, metabolism, confidence, vitality, life force and digestion. However it's very connected to spiritual world. Just like we attached to mother through navel, we are attached to spiritual beings through energetic cords in our navel. If we have pure energy, only good souls will attach to us. If not, evil souls will attach to us. Hence manipura should not be meditated on much unless you've complete all levels of SKY, purify your character and are under protection of guru. If you're good, manipura will open to spiritual world, good souls will connect to you and help you in doing good, and finally your astral body can leave through navel and travel the universe. However, other beings can affect you during this journey, so shouldn't be taken lightly. These are SKY view on manipura.

Reverse side - first part. (O) my heart of my mother [2 times], (O) my heart while I existed [C3] upon earth, do not stand against me as a witness, do not oppose me in [C4] in the tribunal, do not be hostile against me in the presence of the Great God, Lord of the West. [C5] Although I have united (myself) to the land (i.e. died) to the great western side of Heaven, may I flourish upon earth!" Some slight elements of mistranslation here but not too bad, I think. It starts by saying 'My heart, my mother' twice for emphasis. It is not saying 'heart of my mother' which makes no sense anyway - why would he have his mother's heart? Gross! He is addressing his heart as his 'mother'. So why? The heart, (ab), is the psycho-spiritual centre of a person. It is their mind, their volition and character. The heart is seen as issuing commands to the rest of the body, the limbs to move, the tongue to speak and so on. So while we moderns think of the brain as the centre of function for the Egyptians it was the heart. So in this sense it is volition. It is our mother because it makes us who we are. It determines our character, our likes and dislikes, things we hold dear, things we hate and so on. This makes sense really because we are gestated and born from our mothers, we rely on them to give us our physical body and even more than this it is recognised that when we are born, our pristine sterile foetus is covered in the birth canal with all the micro-organisms, gut bacteria and so on which we need to survive. Also in our childhood it is our mother who protects, guides and embraces us in our early years. So there is a lot to us beyond our conscious mind. A whole load of inherited 'stuff'. Then it says 'my heart when I existed on earth' i.e. in the land of the living. Here the word for heart is not 'ab' but 'h3ty' which means literally 'that which is in front (of our chests)' i.e. the physical heart. So the ab heart was our physical heart in life but lives on as a spiritual entity after death. In some versions of this Spell it says 'my heart through all my kheperu' i.e. through all my phases of being, or stages of life. Which indicates that it is the heart/mind which gives us continuity through life (or even lives?). Then the text goes on to talk about the famous Judgement Scene where the heart is weighed against the feather of ma'at. And it asks the heart not to speak against him at this time before the tribunal (or the 42 assessors who act as judges). So if the ab-heart is your mind (in effect) why would it speak against you? For speaking against you leads to the dreaded 'second death' of final extinction. This seems odd doesn't it? The only answer as far as I can see, is that the heart/mind was understood to include all the subconscious mood, feelings, memories, thoughts and so on which we have. All the baggage which we carry with us. As we live we hope that we have done good things but to be honest the picture is mixed isn't it. We have a conscience with which we need to be reconciled. There was a close association between the heart and the tongue. The heart was said to think about what to do and then issue instructions through the tongue. So the voice, what is spoken reflects what is in the heart. This is why those that get through the judgement are called 'true of voice' which is usually translated as justified. Although I have united (myself) to the land (i.e. died) to the great western side of Heaven, may I flourish upon earth! Or better 'United with the ground and under the great Western sky, I flourish on earth.' This is the aspiration to live after death. Both united with the ground and the West are images of being dead.

Thanks for sharing 🙏. Can you tell more about manipura chakra. Om Swami said if you want to meditate on one chakra that should be Manipura. Google his name you will get lot of information about him

Buddhism is a bit unusual as it doesn’t really have an ontology. In most other systems there are subtle substances , for instance citta in Samkhya and yoga philosophy. All three of the three treasures are subtle substances, jing being the most condensed form of qi above the physical.

The earliest documented duality of good and evil gods comes from the Sumerian experience with Enlil (lord of air) and Enki (lord of earth). Enki managed the multiple attempts to breed the human race and still likes humans. See exopolitics.org for relevant interviews. Enlil is often regarded as a psychopath and apparently forced Enki to swear not to inform the humans of the coming flood. Enlil found humans too numerous and too noisy. So Enki spoke to a wall, while having arranged for the Sumerian Noah to stand on the other side while Enki explained how to survive the flood Here is an approximate image https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%2Fid%2FOIP.mqMy5J7BfuNej_UoX42wCAHaDu%3Fcb%3D12%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=f822049f00d18b80e4ddf807a0bbd244d3187ec756808016f995816a32cbd6c5&ipo=images At a more profound level there is the out-breath from The Source of All generating universes and separated dark intelligences. In parallel TSoA breathes in, returning the dark separateness to light unity. This reflected in the tzimtzum concept. That parallel flow generates many experiences that human call evil and good. Lucifer directly translates as "light bearer". It seems that religious interpretation has been superimposed. The function that is called Christ is propagated at planetary, systemic, galactic levels etc, with intelligences taking the various roles. Thus the accounts of Jesus the Christ refer to a human that was over-lighted by the Christ energies of this planet. Note that 30 pieces of silver were paid to identify Jesus despite his public profile. This suggests that the Christ energies were apparent in various disciples but only an insider could identify the anchor. There are also accounts going back centuries of the Cosmic Christ - the intelligence carrying those functions for the solar system. See Teilhard de Chardin for a 20th century account. Christ is from the Greek word Christos meaning anointed. It seems that the Jewish word Messiah, also means anointed. It comes from the Egyptian practice of anointing their kings with the fat of the Messeh - the sacred crocodile. The crocodile was the symbol/vehicle of the Makara of the Hindu.

I have personally dealt with ' Feral Children' and cases of 'extreme isolation ' in my hospital work ( as well as studied the phenomena psychologically) . It happens more than society realizes . One time I had to help a guy wash himself that came in , he was a mid teen and had been kept in an old abandoned chicken pen up in the back yard , by his parents , on a not very isolated property . Boy was he in a sad state ... I had to shave his head as it was a mass of lice nests . Thing was he seemed a smiling happy fellow .. but then again , he might have just been happy to have any sort of human contact ... he did not talk .

I find it interesting that many Hindu consider Jesus an Avatar of Incarnate God. Not reincarnated. However, many other Hindu have a different take on this

I thought this kinda fits the thread And FIPO Tucker is not Fox News and this post is not political in any way

However to “not do” one usually must start with some kind of doing to create the conditions for “not doing” to naturally arise. I think there is a natural progression in qi based practices to move from doing to not doing as one progresses in capability and builds qi. However without the right conditions in place (like sufficient qi, open channels, Dan tian formed, ability to stabilize alert awareness, etc) doing nothing will likely result in nothing. I also think in reality it’s a more of a scale rather than a binary outcome. Close counts.

sure it does limited yes, but the methodology is sound and allows for growth

Matter is energy. the only reason you are seeing physical objects, can interact with them and do not phase through them, is because electrons repel each other. Your energy body, on the other hand, does not experience such electron repulsion and could easily pass through objects.

Just wanted to give a general SKY update; Will give short summary of pointers of my learnings, then long one where I go in depth with each of the 3 pointers. Short 1) I've initiated about 100 people now, about 10 "all the way" (meaning all levels of SKY) 2) I've learnt some of the secret, hidden, discontinued SKY meditations (pranava, astral travel, manonmani, pidari kann) 3) Been "hit" by the stumbling block of Indian politics MANY times Long 1) I've initiated about 100 people now, about 10 "all the way" (meaning all levels of SKY) 1.1. Power of Vethathiri What I noticed is that Vethathiri's energy comes EVERY SINGLE TIME. It's honestly incredible and mind blowing. Out of 100 people, you'd think it didn't work for some, they didn't feel it, energy didn't come etc. Just like working out, building muscle, cardio, brushing your teeth, no matter if you do everything perfectly, some people just won't suceed. It's the camel curve, or bell curve of average distribution, all are average, then some few big failures and some few big winners. But out of 100, 100 felt the energy. 1.2 Different people's response to the energy Further what I noticed is that people close to me, who love me, or who are just very open to me, receive the energy much more powerfully. E.g. my mom, my wife, my wife's family, my siblings, my cousins, some few coworkers interested in yoga who came to the course (so we knew each other a bit), and again some few "strangers of the internet" who just found my webpage but for some reason were super open to me. All the people who were more open received it so powerfully; e.g. my mom started having visions of the future, visions of her past life, getting lucid dreams, this was her first week of the very first diksha/initation. It was crazy. My wife and her family all also got visions of their ancestors, life guidance, felt the energy strongly and clearly as vibration. My siblings and my cousins went deep into the thuriyateetha state on the very first day of that particular diksha, where you merge completely with the universal state. It took me about 3 years of twice daily practice to stabilize going to that state and staying there. My cousin who's not really into spirituality, though he belives in Almighty God (he's an orthodox Christian), he was quite shocked and stated after the meditation "it was as if I disappeared, I was one with the universe, it was scary! I had to move my arms just to feel I still existed". So his ego was wiped clear, he went to the last and final of the 5 koshas/sheaths and because he had never heard of that experience before, he couldn't understand nor roll with it. Only when I explained afterwards did he understand he had a glimpse of the goal of yoga, union with the universe. One of my childhood friend's little brother saw clear visions of the universe and stars, and also the local spirits in our area observing our meditation from a distance. His ancestors are from the Middle East and Central Asia, so figured he had some kind of connection with shamanism from central Asia since he connected with the world of local land spirits and protectors. 1.3 Personal stories An elderly lady who's quite clairvoyant had 360 vision during the deekshas of the room and got pretty interesting visions and guidance about me and my father's type of energy and life path (as we found out she had met my dad about 5-10 years earlier). What she told me made real sense, she had a vision of my dad as a "flagbearer" in an army, with fire coming out of the footsteps behind his trail. My dad has been main man in taking Indian spirituality to our country, real, authentic and undiluted. Whereas she saw me as an ocean, calmly embracing the planet earth and the universe. As you've read in my different posts, I've been in deep contact with a lot of ancient, traditional spiritualities, and embrace all and share freely. A depressed, early 20s gay guy who had dropped out of his education, moved away from his family in another part of the country, and felt life was meaningless started getting his energy back, feeling vibration and energy, being able to observe his thoughts without getting sucked in and found his new life-path with renewed energy after about 3-5 months of meditation and introspection, having received the thuriya or crown diksha/initiation. I have so many stories to share. I actually feel my heart being touched by all these personal stories, I also feel warm inside. So happy to share what changed my own life. There was also a 60s something gentleman who worked his whole life as a manual laborer. In his youth he had a kundalini experience while trying some yoga, and he had spent 40+ years having that in the back of his mind, just knowing some day he would explore further. e drove 4 hours from the other end of the country to see me and get diksha. He was so content, we actually spent about 60-70 minutes in deep agnya meditation together, where I boosted his chakra many times (which is quite unusual in SKY, in the courses we only meditate 10-20 minutes together, we focus on opening people's energy so they themselves can keep working on it at home). But he had literally spent his whole life waiting for this moment, and drove all the way to get it. So we meditated deeply together. We've stayed in contact via email, and he's now meditating several hours pr day, has bought all my books, and says he finally has hit home with Kundalini and chakras after 40 years of wondering about it. My cousin's boyfriend from Morocco spent 5-7 years following Sadhguru, doing his surya kriya religiously 1 hour every morning, shambhavi, inner engineering, the whole shebang. He works in IT and has even volunteered many hours and weeks to arrange Sadhguru events and come-togethers here in our country. When he did SKY he was so surprised, he was like "I feel the vibration in my agnya.. what's that about?" - I'm like "it's your Kundalini, it's now gone to agnya". "But then.. now what? what do I do?" - "simply observe the vibration when you meditate, it will make it grow stronger". "okay." After 3-6 months he contacted me to try the next level, thuriya or crown chakra. Again he was like "I clearly feel an energy in my crown, it's physical, it feels like the size of a peanut, yet electrical and giving off vibrations. What does that mean?" - "it means your Kundalini has now reached your crown, traditionally seen as the highest yogic realization. Usually they say 12 years to reach agnya, now in 6 months your Kundalini is in your crown". He was like "that's true, sadhguru has said it's 12 years of surya kriya, shambavi etc, and there's still no guarantee". I said "through SKY you just skipped 12 years. You did it in 6 months!" - his eyes widened in disbelief "What... how's that possible?" - "it's the power of SKY and Vethatiri, it's just a way suited for modern people living in the world, instead of celibates on a mountain". His paradigm was shattered, he had done surya kriya daily for 5 years or so, he had spent so much time, money and energy, travel to India, you name it. And now he got it from his girlfriend's cousin in 6 months, easy, simple. That is SKY - SIMPLIFIED Kundalini Yoga. I could go on and on, just wanted to share some stories. It is truly a deep satisfaction in my soul to look back on all these people and how SKY helped them, just like it helped me. 1.4 People's emotionality, personality and enneagram affecting their spiritual journey A big pattern I've discovered is in how people approach the spiritual path in general. E.g. I've had a few 4s, and they crave drama and excitement and feeling special, so instead of choosing a practice and sticking with it 'till completion, they ride their emotional wave of drama, including letting go of authentic paths, should they come across them. Similarly I've seen 2s, they're all about helping others and showing merging heart love, so even if progressing on the spiritual path, they will stop and instead pursue other activities that let them help others instead of cultivating themselves. 3s want to just achieve, peacock and show others their achievements on the social scene, so these will do a lot of "hopping" to whatever is trending, no matter if it's real an authentic, simply to peacock on the social stage 5s will get caught up in reading, studying and understanding, instead of actually practicing. 7s will investigate system after system and compare them with each other endlessly, but not necessarily practice. 9s get complacent and lazy and will tell themselves "anyway, spiritual journey is about letting go, it's all good... so I don't need to practice. It's actually very spiritual of me to let go of my practice". So I have been very, VERY suprised by these patterns. I am personally a 6, which in the "essential enneagram" is all about solidity, stability, accountability and daily discipline until the goal is reached. So the moment I find something "that's real", I will stick with it to the end. That's how I succeeded in SKY. Just a note to self, people will pursue their fixation. Meaning many of the people who came to the SKY courses, no matter how much energy, vibration, spiritual power, visions, glimpses of higher worlds and possiblities, oneness with the universe, you name it. No matter what they experienced, they won't see its value, they will instead "keep on keeping on" with their fixation. This suprised me for the longest time, as I saw people (like the stories I shared above) reaching in just days or weeks what took me many years of twice daily practice without fail to reach. Just to shrug it off and "on to the next thing" in case of 3s, 4s, 5s, 7s, you name it. So this is definitely a surprising observation, that people are not at all rational creatures, we're emotional, we don't necessarily do what makes sense "regarding spiritual progress", but instead choose to act out our fixation instead. We're stuck in "saving the family" by staying in our ego-fixation instead of working through it to realize our soul station (nafsi maqaam and insan al kamil in sufism, enlightened state in buddhism, daoism and hinduism). I also feel I personally "clicked" with SKY as it gave me a solid, stable, disciplined and systematic path to enlightenment as a 6 (trying to save my family by giving them endless support), and reaching that "universal state" in meditation allowed me to touch on my soul nature as a 9. So pay heed to your type if you want to "hack" your spiritual journey and reach your goal. Ask yourself "why do I want to do this?" and see if it's truly from your soul 2) I've learnt some of the secret, hidden, discontinued SKY meditations (pranava, astral travel, manonmani, pidari kann) 2.1 Firstly, was super disappointed with the astral travel meditation, wrote about it here (latest post) https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/56944-found-a-place-that-teaches-astral-travel-but-you-need-to-be-indian/?tab=comments#comment-1065498 2.2 The pranava is very interesting, I feel like it could potentially help with achieving REAL astral projection in the future with continued practice. You "expand your astral body", first vertically (up to the sun, moon, stars, shakti kalam or universal energy state and shiva kalam or universal static state and then back point by point), then horizontally (to the room, to the city, to the country, to the continent, to the earth, then shakti kalam and shiva kalam, then back step by step) 2.3 The manonmani meditation is REALLY good. For simplicity's sake, in SKY you meditate on the front of the body instead of in the center of the body. Simply because people had a hard time finding the correct location with their awareness in their body. These points all on the central front line (ren mai or conception vessel) are called "kshetras" in hinduism or activation points for the chakras in the middle of the body. However if you look up the points in qigong, each also have a spiritual function. E.g. navel that is used for astral travel is called "shen que" or spirit gate, interestingly enough, drawing a parallel between Indian and Chinese understanding of the energy and spirit bodies. The only meditations in the center of the body in current official SKY system are muladhara (hui yin) and sahasrara/thuriya (bai hui). However manonmani is the very centre of the brain, where you meditate directly on the pineal gland. The rogue master that taught me this meditation said that this is the ultimate point for all supernatural powers, inner vision, predicting the future, merging with Divinity, acquiring all knowledge, you name it. I have only shared this meditation with 2 people so far, and unfortunately haven't had enough time to practice to share my own personal experiences, other than that I feel deep peace when I meditate on it. 2.4 Pidari Kann is what is called "the jade pillow" in qigong, the nape of the neck. It's called "the neck eye" in some tamil texts. I feel a real opening of my entire central channel and spine when I meditate on it, but haven't had the chance to go deep with it yet, so still more to be experienced. 3) Been "hit" by the stumbling block of Indian politics MANY times I took about 3 years of me actively pushing and ruthlessly networking before they taught me the final dikshas in SKY, namely how to initiate to the universe as well as how to initiate the "lower chakras" (genital, navel, heart and throat). Similarly, I spent yet another 5 years ruthlessly pushing, pulling, affecting, working, networking before I found this rogue master who taught me Pranava, Manonmani, Pidari Kann, Astral travel and so on. He even shared some of Vethathiri's personal stories and experiences that deeply touched my heart, showcasing the incredible personality and character of this great Guru and Master. I was deeply touched to learn more about the man that changed my life through SKY. So just want to warn everyone out there if you personally want to progress to master level - be prepared for some serious corruption, confusion, indian power play, politics and downright tyrannical dictatorship if you want to become a full master. I also discussed this with Steven Sadleir who's one of the few "white masters" out there still teaching SKY, and he gave me his own crazy stories of direct contact with corrupt, Indian power play politics in both the US and India. So be warned and be prepared if you ever reach this level.