exorcist_1699

Regret in life

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One of most regrettable things in life is when people reach middle age , although their ability and intelligence experiencing its utmost , their energy and appearance start to deteriorate.

 

No matter how people argue or deny, aging is the most disgusting thing in life .

 

So, coming across Taoism is , in fact, the biggest fortune a person can get in his middle age provided that he knows how to grasp it .

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One of most regrettable things in life is when people reach middle age , although their ability and intelligence experiencing its utmost , their energy and appearance start to deteriorate.

 

No matter how people argue or deny, aging is the most disgusting thing in life .

 

So, coming across Taoism is , in fact, the biggest fortune a person can get in his middle age provided that he knows how to grasp it .

 

I get the feeling you are not in middle age yourself

 

Personally, I see decay as beautiful.

 

h

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I get the feeling you are not in middle age yourself

 

Personally, I see decay as beautiful.

 

h

 

I live with a very old family member and take care of her , so , I know how horrible aging is ; I think you have not been old enough to give the correct judgement :-)

 

Besides, "decay is beautiful " can only be some sort of aesthetic feeling , which , unfortunately, can't be used a dose of medicine like qi against the always coming up pains from different parts of body when you are old .

Edited by exorcist_1699

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One of most regrettable things in life is when people reach middle age , although their ability and intelligence experiencing its utmost , their energy and appearance start to deteriorate.

 

No matter how people argue or deny, aging is the most disgusting thing in life .

 

So, coming across Taoism is , in fact, the biggest fortune a person can get in his middle age provided that he knows how to grasp it .

 

It appears that you are stating that everyone who doesn't agree with you is in denial. If my understanding is correct, then I would have to disagree with you entirely.

 

Maybe the deterioration of the human body is a new concept to you, or maybe it has more meaning because you are having the direct experience of looking after a family member. This alone does not deem it to be disgusting, nor does it mean that Taoism is essentially a life line because it encourages longevity.

 

We start off being incontinent and needing nappies, generally ending up that way too. Form is an attachment many have, and many aim to lose.

 

One can indeed be fortunate to come across Daoism when one's body is degrading. However, if one is interested in avoiding the death of the human body then I would guess that they have not accepted the nature of change... they know not the Dao.

 

Life and death give rise to each other, and are mutually dependent.

 

I have been coming to terms with my death since I first came across the notion - it surprises me that you started so late.

 

Yours humbly,

James

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I started meditating when I was 15. Now Im 31 and still have the apperance and humor of a 15-year old. THAT sucks just as much :(

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No matter how people argue or deny, aging is the most disgusting thing in life .

 

Chuang Tzu's wife died. When Hui Tzu went to convey his condolences, he found Chuang Tzu sitting with his legs sprawled out, pounding on a tub and singing. "You lived with her, she brought up your children and grew old," said Hui Tzu. "It should be enough simply not to weep at her death. But pounding on a tub and singing - this is going too far, isn't it?"

 

Chuang Tzu said, "You're wrong. When she first died, do you think I didn't grieve like anyone else? But I looked back to her beginning and the time before she was born. Not only the time before she was born, but the time before she had a body. Not only the time before she had a body, but the time before she had a spirit. In the midst of the jumble of wonder and mystery a change took place and she had a spirit. Another change and she had a body. Another change and she was born. Now there's been another change and she's dead. It's just like the progression of the four seasons, spring, summer, fall, winter.

 

"Now she's going to lie down peacefully in a vast room. If I were to follow after her bawling and sobbing, it would show that I don't understand anything about fate. So I stopped."

 

 

YM

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One of most regrettable things in life is when people reach middle age , although their ability and intelligence experiencing its utmost , their energy and appearance start to deteriorate.

 

No matter how people argue or deny, aging is the most disgusting thing in life .

 

So, coming across Taoism is , in fact, the biggest fortune a person can get in his middle age provided that he knows how to grasp it .

I disagree.

 

Aging is the true nature of humans and all other living things. Humans are born, live, age, and die. It is natural and it is beautiful.

 

There is that which is behind, beyond, before, after, and within everything that never ages and that is beautiful and is as it should be. That is the true nature of everything including man and can be included in our perspective but is beyond our human incarnation here on earth.

 

Man's nature is as you see it. Acceptance leads to peace - wu wei the Daoists would call it - going with rather than against. Struggling against nature leads to suffering - seeing life as disgusting, that's painful. That's not the way of the Dao.

 

The way is not to fight against nature with some dreams of living forever in the body you currently occupy, that's a fantasy. Just my perspective, FWIW.

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aging is not disgusting, it is part of life.

 

i bet you think death is the worst thing that can happen to you too

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To those who think that aging is natural and beautiful , therefore unstoppable , irreversible ..this may be your idea , however ,I have to say it is , unfortunately NOT Taoist idea ; instead , it likely be your own explanation of life or some concept from some chapters of Chuang Tzu , which always are misinterpreted to become the so-called Taoist idea of nature or life .

 

As many people know, Chuang Tzu was a book written and composed by a guy called Chuang Zhou and his disciples more then 2,000 years ago, the content in it are complex and mixed , sometimes contradictory; for example, in some chapter , it mentions death as natural thing and men should comply with it , in other chapter it mentions an immortal who is extremely pretty , can survive just by assimilating wind, cloud and dew ; At other places , it talks about how to forget your body and go beyond it , those practical keys... ,it also once mentions the DU channel in our body and its relation with qi gong practice..etc

 

However, what most people love is the so-called , so-explained Taoist philosophy of life as part of nature ,

succumbing to nature , is it true?

 

Careful readers will find the difference between Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu :In Lao Tzu , Tao is a "metaphysical " ( just borrow a western philosophical term for convenience ) thing hidden among nature but govern all things , the point is it not explicitly tells people that qi , another important Taoist concept , is the embodiment of Tao in this world ,including our body. So, the question is : by means of qi, can we , humble humans , go upwards to grasp the much larger Tao and therefore overcome the said nature , the said destiny , the said beauty that I am repeatedly bombarded here ?

 

By reading the most important classics of TCM , Huang Di Nei Jin ( which is also viewed by most Chinese Taoists as classics of Taoism and still intensively studied by most modern TCM and acupuncture doctors) ,written and composed during the same period of time , ie, the Han and pre-Han period, we get the answer , and , it is affirmative .

Edited by exorcist_1699

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Well my understanding of clasic daoist internal alchemy is faint to say the least but from my reading what shines through over and over again is the notion of > return<. The foundation of daoist philosphy is a return to Tao. Daoist scripture are infused with stillness as represented by earth or yin and emptiness which is assigned to heaven and yang.By means of correct cultivation the cultivator spins back the the cycle of five phases,molds the yin of water with yang of fire and returns to the perfection of Tao, which contains, yet lies beyond the concept of life and death.

 

So the emphasis as always is on the individual no matter what the teaching, if one does not apply one self how can there be success?

You say the slow death of ageing digusts you.I believe we should always look closely at any phenomena which elicits a strong response within us.

Tell me do the colour of autumn leaves bother you? Does the sunsetting in the west bother you?

The metal phase of the fall is assigned the emotion of grief when it is unbalanced.Grief for the the apparent decline,the slow return to earth. Yet it retains that which is of greatest value,the seed, the life force.So what may appear to be only decline and decreption may harbour within its core the very essence of new life.

The quality of what has been deposited to the earth in autumn dictates the quality of new life in spring :)

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It's funny that you imply that the TTC speaks out against death and decay. In fact, you say that going with the flow of nature is not a taoist idea. Then how do you explain TTC16?

Empty the self completely;

Embrace perfect peace.

The world will rise and move;

Watch it return to rest.

All the flourishing things

Will return to their source.

 

This return is peaceful;

It is the flow of nature,

An eternal decay and renewal.

Accepting this brings enlightenment,

Ignoring this brings misery.

 

Who accepts nature's flow becomes all-cherishing;

Being all-cherishing he becomes impartial;

Being impartial he becomes magnanimous;

Being magnanimous he becomes natural;

Being natural he becomes one with the Way;

Being one with the Way he becomes immortal:

Though his body will decay, the Way will not.

 

I think perhaps you need to re-examine things.

Edited by lostmonk

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Im shure that if we were able to see how our old age would turn out, a lot of us would be disgusted. If we know how it feels to get Altzheimers, dementia, organfailure, nerveproblems, not being able to eat, go to the toilet or wash our own body, we would be disgusted and start doing some changes in our life so that we dont experience this in our old age. It does not feel beautiful and wonderful to rot from the inside out. It is not a wonderful feeling to not recognize your own children or to forget what you where talking about in the middle of every sentence you are trying to formulate. It is not a beautful feeling to just sit there, year after year, not being able to do anything, helpless, and still being too afraid to die.

 

But as we grow old we think that this does not happen to us. We have more than enough to deal with right now with job, friends and everydayproblems. A change of diet, lifestyle, emotions and beliefsystems is not the first of our priority. To enjoy junkfood, candy and a good party is probably higher up in our personal priorities.

 

But then we have to deal with sickness and the slowly decaying body when we grow old.

 

And Im shure, if we saw what we put other people(and our family) through with our old age diseases... the fear, the worry, the work, the time spent, the feeling of never being able to live their own complete life because they have to take us to the toilet everyday... if we could see this and recognice that it is our lifestyle right here and right know that creates all this mess when we grow old, then Im shure we would do some changes.

 

But normally we dont see this. We might think about it. Maby we understand it. Or maby we talk about it when we are a little drunk and philosophical at a party. But we dont REALIZE it and live the realization.

 

But knowing that old age is disgusting does not mean that we dont love old and sick people. It dosent mean that we dont want to help them either. It just means that when we are concious of it, it is not something we want, not for ourselves or anyone.

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Please notice that my post says aging disgusting , not old man/women disgusting .

 

Besides, having experienced the passing of years does not necessarily means aging or getting deteriorated .

Edited by exorcist_1699

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Very nice post seadog.

 

Exorcist - I don't know you beyond your posts and this may therefore be inaccurate or presumptuous, yet it appears that you have an idea, a feeling, and you are seeing Daoist scripture through this veil.

Our world is filled with people who find support for their ideas in sacred texts - is that what they were meant for? Is this usually fruitful?

 

It might help to try and empty your cup and fill it with fresh tea.

Good luck in your studies and cultivation.

With compassion and respect,

Steve

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Hmm I think identifying people as just their body is to miss. I was going to write some mystical exposition about how we are infinitely unfolding yet the rhythm is seen as two steps forward and one step back but it might sound arrogant to someone who's caring for an elderly person.

 

All I can say is that deaths purpose is to teach us to nurture all life through love and care. If people weren't so eager to be enslaved and confused then we would rediscover our true nature as farther-mothers. Don't despair as doing what's right comes naturally unlike our man-made world. Therefore take heart that even if we only dimly understand the processes of the universe we can be sure it will eternally yield awe and beauty.

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Preparing for old age is a responsibility that we all have to undergo. It's like a pension, what you put in comes back to you, unless the pension fund is run by others that yourself.

 

;)

Edited by pigeontoes

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People who compare aging with other natural phenomena seems forget one crucial thing :

 

The changing phenomena happen in non-human things are clearly different from what happen on human beings ; all things except human beings has consciousness or more precisely speaking : self-consciousness . No living things on this planet except humans can discover qi in their own bodies themselves , nourish it for years , and then upgrade it to a new , utmost level :

 

SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS ( ENLIGHTENMENT )

 

 

an awakening in which we find ourselves not only as some poor , lonely , powerless individuals in this world ,but always linking with the whole world , our mind linking with other people's mind ; under that spiritual situation , we also know and manipulate the internal situation of our own bodies better , can even stop own breathing or heart beating with ease...a real unity of consciousness with body therefore realized .

 

Eliminating the alienation between our consciousness and our physical body is one of the great achievements of Taoism ( even Marx did not dream of doing so ) .

 

Of course, without having attained certain level of AWAKENING, never can you interfere the process of aging .

Edited by exorcist_1699

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