where do I even start?

[Electric Sekhmet]

Hey guys, I hope this is an apropriate question for this forum, if not I apologize.

A few months back my interest in taoism started, probably due to the need of seeking something new. I was always interested in esotericism and more "occult" traditions for a lack of better terms. Doing some basic google search and the classic texts (dao de jing and zhuangzi) came up, but what I associated with taoism (and hoped to find out more about) were actual practices like qigong and neidan. At the same time, what seems to be more up my alley was the discovery of chinese folk religion. Now already there is so much material (books, videos, articles) that I managed to loose oversight, I dont even know if I am looking for the right things in the right spots. Sorry for this weird rambling, the important question is: where should I start in the many schools and offshots of taoism if I want to learn more about "magical" practices and is the familiarisation with philosophical taoism (and reading the important texts) necessary?

[Cobie]

22 minutes ago, Electric Sekhmet said:

… I was always interested in esotericism and more "occult" traditions for a lack of better terms. 
… what I associated with taoism (and hoped to find out more about) were actual practices like qigong and neidan. …

… question is: where should I start … and is the familiarisation with philosophical taoism (and reading the important texts) necessary?

 

possibly 

@Nungali occult traditions;  @-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- qigong; @Taoist Texts neidan, @wandelaar philosophical taoism

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 06:02 PM by Cobie

[BigSkyDiamond]

5 minutes ago, Electric Sekhmet said:

Hey guys, I hope this is an apropriate question for this forum, if not I apologize.

A few months back my interest in taoism started, probably due to the need of seeking something new. I was always interested in esotericism and more "occult" traditions for a lack of better terms. Doing some basic google search and the classic texts (dao de jing and zhuangzi) came up, but what I associated with taoism (and hoped to find out more about) were actual practices like qigong and neidan. At the same time, what seems to be more up my alley was the discovery of chinese folk religion. Now already there is so much material (books, videos, articles) that I managed to loose oversight, I dont even know if I am looking for the right things in the right spots. Sorry for this weird rambling, the important question is: where should I start in the many schools and offshots of taoism if I want to learn more about "magical" practices and is the familiarisation with philosophical taoism (and reading the important texts) necessary?

 

welcome!  there are discussions and topics in the forum on any and all of the above noted interests in bold. a good place to start is throw each of those bold topics one by one into the search and start visiting threads. 

 

what works for me is to randomly visit threads, see what piques my interest in what is being discussed, and go from there.  If someone is discussing something of interest, i ask "can you tell me more about this, what resources do you recommend" and people on this site are quite helpful and responsive.  as you go along you can then see what jumps out at you and explore further.    I also find and start noticing there are certain posters that consistently resonate with the interests I have so i will visit other threads they may be participating in and invariably there is related information that I also find helpful.

 

what brought me to Dao Bums was wanting to find out more about different forms of qi gong, and there is robust discussion around that, I have found.  It does help (for me anyway) to hear people discussing their experiences with different types of qi gong and helped me decide to try out two forms which were different than what i had been practicing (on and off) since 2019.  

 

You can also start a topic and ask whatever question you might have.  Have fun exploring, jump right in, ask questions.

[BigSkyDiamond]

also the Activity tab at top of page lets you see at a glance the most recent posts, people, and topics under discussion.  I have found gems there (people and posts and conversations) that i would not have found through searching by topic or section.  So that is a great section to get in the habit of viewing.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 06:18 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[BigSkyDiamond]

another helpful resource, is after a while when you have favorite posters and you want to read more of what this or that person has written, here is the path to view all their posts.  Click on their name, click on see their activity (button upper right) this shows a few recent posts but not all of them, then click on posts (left side menu list).  Then the posts appear.  I just looked up someone who has provided helpful information recently on several areas of experience which resonated with me;  they have 1,005 posts so there are 39 pages I can view and read and mine for useful information.

[EFreethought]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

 

possibly 

@Nungali occult traditions;  @-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- qigong; @Taoist Texts neidan, @wandelaar philosophical taoism

 

I think @Taoist Texts is no longer on this board. He used to comment a lot, but lately I have not seen much of him.

Edited Thursday at 07:49 PM by EFreethought
my text was in the quote box

[Cobie]

59 minutes ago, EFreethought said:

…  @Taoist Texts …

He still visits the forum. You can read his old topics. 
 

 

Edited Thursday at 08:49 PM by Cobie

[Electric Sekhmet]

thanks guys!

[ChiDragon]

4 hours ago, Electric Sekhmet said:

Sorry for this weird rambling, the important question is: where should I start in the many schools and offshots of taoism if I want to learn more about "magical" practices and is the familiarisation with philosophical taoism (and reading the important texts) necessary?

If you are only interested in the "magical" practices, the answer is no. It is not necessary.

[Gerard]

16 hours ago, Electric Sekhmet said:

Sorry for this weird rambling, the important question is: where should I start in the many schools and offshots of taoism if I want to learn more about "magical" practices

The voodoo. Unnecessary and distracting.

 

Requirements:

 

1. Find a legit teacher with years of experience. Chinese Internal Martial Arts are preferred: Ba Gua, Xingyi & Tai Chi

2. Apply yourself and do not deviate from what you are learning as mixing practices is also distracting and unnecessary. 

3. Learn seated meditation technique preferably from the Buddhist line; eg. Vipassana. 

[Master Logray]

16 minutes ago, Gerard said:

The voodoo. Unnecessary and distracting.

 

Requirements:

 

1. Find a legit teacher with years of experience. Chinese Internal Martial Arts are preferred: Ba Gua, Xingyi & Tai Chi

2. Apply yourself and do not deviate from what you are learning as mixing practices is also distracting and unnecessary. 

3. Learn seated meditation technique preferably from the Buddhist line; eg. Vipassana. 

 

It is what he likes.  He likes orange and you recommend an apple.  

 

Knowledge in internal martial arts, Neidan, meditation, philosophy, Yijing and Chinese medicine are helpful and useful but not necessary in the many Zheng Yi magical practices.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

17 hours ago, Electric Sekhmet said:

Hey guys, I hope this is an apropriate question for this forum, if not I apologize.

A few months back my interest in taoism started, probably due to the need of seeking something new. I was always interested in esotericism and more "occult" traditions for a lack of better terms. Doing some basic google search and the classic texts (dao de jing and zhuangzi) came up, but what I associated with taoism (and hoped to find out more about) were actual practices like qigong and neidan. At the same time, what seems to be more up my alley was the discovery of chinese folk religion. Now already there is so much material (books, videos, articles) that I managed to loose oversight, I dont even know if I am looking for the right things in the right spots. Sorry for this weird rambling, the important question is: where should I start in the many schools and offshots of taoism if I want to learn more about "magical" practices and is the familiarisation with philosophical taoism (and reading the important texts) necessary?

Check out Jason Read and the Maoshan sect if you want the “magical” practices 

[Turnip]

8 hours ago, Gerard said:

The voodoo. Unnecessary and distracting.

 

Requirements:

 

1. Find a legit teacher with years of experience. Chinese Internal Martial Arts are preferred: Ba Gua, Xingyi & Tai Chi

2. Apply yourself and do not deviate from what you are learning as mixing practices is also distracting and unnecessary. 

3. Learn seated meditation technique preferably from the Buddhist line; eg. Vipassana. 

Why are the Chinese Internal Martial Arts preferred? As opposed to say, Internal Alchemy, Spiritual Qi Gong, etc

[Electric Sekhmet]

thanks, guys, some really helpful answers. just another question, as initiation is quite important in other occult and magic practices: how is this handled in taoism/chinese folk religion? is it worth also looking for a teacher or should I just practices the basics on my own? 

[Apech]

13 minutes ago, Electric Sekhmet said:

thanks, guys, some really helpful answers. just another question, as initiation is quite important in other occult and magic practices: how is this handled in taoism/chinese folk religion? is it worth also looking for a teacher or should I just practices the basics on my own? 

I love your screen name by the way.

[Electric Sekhmet]

8 minutes ago, Apech said:

I love your screen name by the way.

thanks lol, its a mixture of electric wizard and my favorite egyptian goddess

[Apech]

56 minutes ago, Electric Sekhmet said:

thanks lol, its a mixture of electric wizard and my favorite egyptian goddess

Why do you like Sekhmet?

[Gerard]

3 hours ago, Turnip said:

Why are the Chinese Internal Martial Arts preferred? As opposed to say, Internal Alchemy, Spiritual Qi Gong, etc

Because those practices are UNGROUNDED and you already live in a very ungrounded world unless you work as a shepherd in Afghanistan. 

[BigSkyDiamond]

I have the same question asked by Turnip.  I agree that physical grounding activity is necessary.  But i question whether the grounding activity must come through martial arts.  For instance walking in nature every day for 80 minutes.  It would be helpful for me to hear more on that.  Thank you.    My qi gong practice is 130 minutes daily, it is Zhineng qi gong mostly, and some Flying Phoneix qi gong.  Both are slow meditative eyes closed forms.  Zhineng is based on Hunyuan qi.  

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[idquest]

2 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

I have the same question asked by Turnip.  I agree that physical grounding activity is necessary.  But i question whether the grounding activity must come through martial arts.  For instance walking in nature every day for 80 minutes.  It would be helpful for me to hear more on that.  Thank you.    My qi gong practice is 130 minutes daily, it is Zhineng qi gong mostly, and some Flying Phoneix qi gong.  Both are slow meditative eyes closed forms.  Zhineng is based on Hunyuan qi.  

 

 

 

You need some kind of stress straining for body tissues. More accurately, you might not need it if you are younger than 30 YO, but with age, you need it more and more. No qigong provides a required kind of stress training, but forms like daoyin, MA, or ashtanga yoga (the brutal one) can work. If you don't do something like this, you will have two kind of issues:

- your qi will stagnate and won't develop internally

- your health will deteriorate with time. 

 

Walking is a good practice but it is sort of one-sided and does not provide a required spectrum of physical training.

 

It does not have to be MA. it is just that Chinese people developed good curriculum of combining reaching several goals by training MA, so it is sort of time efficient.

 

Speaking from personal experience.

[BigSkyDiamond]

14 minutes ago, idquest said:

 

You need some kind of stress straining for body tissues. More accurately, you might not need it if you are younger than 30 YO, but with age, you need it more and more. No qigong provides a required kind of stress training, but forms like daoyin, MA, or ashtanga yoga (the brutal one) can work. If you don't do something like this, you will have two kind of issues:

- your qi will stagnate and won't develop internally

- your health will deteriorate with time. 

 

Walking is a good practice but it is sort of one-sided and does not provide a required spectrum of physical training.

 

It does not have to be MA. it is just that Chinese people developed good curriculum of combining reaching several goals by training MA, so it is sort of time efficient.

 

Speaking from personal experience.

 

Thank you for the response and additional information on this topic.  what is this? bold above 

 stress straining for body tissues

 

Is that referring to muscle-strengthening activities?  Activity that will increase range of motion and flexibility?  I am thinking for the age 60+ group.  Balance building is important for seniors, and i feel like i am getting that with the qi gong.  I am interested in more on this.  Thank you.  I am thinking of the scenes with a group of seniors in China doing Tai Chi movement.   A moving Tai Chi like that would give me more movement.  Is that considered a "martial art" ?  Wild Goose (Dayan) has movement but it is still qi gong, and not considered tai chi.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[idquest]

41 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

Thank you for the response and additional information on this topic.  what is this? bold above 

 stress straining for body tissues

 

Is that referring to muscle-strengthening activities?  Activity that will increase range of motion and flexibility?  I am thinking for the age 60+ group.  Balance building is important for seniors, and i feel like i am getting that with the qi gong.  I am interested in more on this.  Thank you.  I am thinking of the scenes with a group of seniors in China doing Tai Chi movement.   A moving Tai Chi like that would give me more movement.  Is that considered a "martial art" ?  Wild Goose (Dayan) has movement but it is still qi gong, and not considered tai chi.

 

 

That was a typo, I meant stress training rather than stress straining. Something like resistance training.

If qigong works for your balance training - great, this is what you need. From my personal experience though, the insufficient/lack of balance in seniors results from diminishing volume of muscle tissue and a resulting inability to maintain a proper body posture. Everybody has their own muscular-skeleton problems, but generally I'd say building up butt, hamstrings, and back muscles would be a key in enhancing the balance. 

 

Taiji is certainly a MA, but what you see when groups of elderly people doing form - this is more like qigong or a dance. Ideally, MA will have a partner training component and this is when resistance training can be tested.

 

To clarify my thought - qi does not replace strength and power.  Soft qigong forms are good if you can't do more physically demanding MA forms - this is why ba dua jin variants are so popular among elderly. So judge yourself.

[BigSkyDiamond]

i could actually feel my muscle strength starting to diminish, and i could feel loss beginning in flexibility and range of motion.  That was a bit scary.  That is what led me to amp up my fitnesss routine.  With 2 months so far of increased qi gong and different forms, there is marked improvement in strength and flexibility.  So I am on the right track, but there is still more to be done.  I will be adding specific muscle strengthening exercises.  I am also spending more time on the floor this is helping with flexibility.

 

Thank you again for the input, much appreciated.