Women in Eastern Tradition (taboo)

[helgaferae]

On 26/03/2023 at 3:00 PM, Cobie said:

women equated with negativity, evil, coldness and darkness

also as seducers (even when we're celibate), deceivers, corrupters and all round scapegoats for the perversities of men.

https://qz.com/india/586192/theres-a-misogynist-aspect-of-buddhism-that-nobody-talks-about

[Cobie]

“The complete silence on the subject of misogyny so firmly entrenched in the Buddhist scriptures, and traced to the Buddha, is quite remarkable.”  (from the quoted link)
 

16 hours ago, helgaferae said:

https://qz.com/india/586192/theres-a-misogynist-aspect-of-buddhism-that-nobody-talks-about

 

“Therevada Buddhist philosophy, which arguably assumes a monastic, male only, life denying flavor.”

link https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/53989-relational-meditative-practices/?do=findComment&comment=995702   

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Cobie

[stirling]

17 hours ago, Master Logray said:

I think these grand masters had ways to ensure their core teaching are intact very the ages.  Otherwise whatever they preach would be unreliable.

 

There IS a mechanism for insuring what is important is passed on... where possible.  This is what lineage is about.

 

A master with understanding sometimes recognizes that the understanding is now had by a student and that the knowledge is persistent moment to moment over months and years. The master then asks the student to teach and, importantly, STAYS his teacher, working with the student to hone the deepening understanding and the delivery of teaching. 

 

Nothing written down TRULY addresses the understanding (and can't), so it is of relatively less importance. For a qualified teacher with mastery ALL circumstances that arise in life are teachings.

[helgaferae]

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by helgaferae
General incompetence

[steve]

Here’s another although the subject matter is very similar to Heart Essence of the Khandro -

 

 

[Ajay0]

On 3/26/2023 at 5:50 PM, helgaferae said:

Women are not considered as a complete entity in Buddhism. Their body is not considered fit to attain enlightenment and become Buddha. There is a concept that women are not complete until they attain enlightenment to become reborn as a man.

Discussion welcome. 

 

 This is not true based on what I know. 

 

Prajnatara , Bodhidharma's enlightened teacher was a woman. BAsed on my understanding, it was Prajnatara who persuaded Bodhidharma to spread Zen Buddhism in China.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Ajay0

[Ajay0]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:30 PM, Cobie said:

Yes, ime Eastern tradition is unhelpful for women.

 

More than 30 of the Vedic sages were women. Gargi and Maitreyi are two famous female sages mentioned in the Vedas.

 

https://thesanatanchronicle.com/2020/08/30/brahmavadini-the-forgotten-tradition-of-women-scholars-in-ancient-india/

 

 

Quote

 

Gargi Vachaknavi is honoured as a great natural philosopher in Vedic literature. She wrote many hymns in the Rig Veda on the origin of existence. Due to the depth of her Vedic expertise, she was frequently invited to debates with male philosophers of her time.

 

On one such occasion, at the court of King Janak of Videha, she was the only woman present in the assembly and one of the eight scholars who challenged the great sage Yajnavalkya in a debate, as an equal participant. The quality and strength of her arguments almost overwhelmed Yajnavalkya–a feat that no other scholar was able to achieve. Gargi was honoured as one of the Navaratnas (nine gems) in the court of King Janak.

 

 

In modern times, there has been female enlightened sages like Anandamayi Ma,  Sharda Devi,  Nirmala Devi,  Mata Amritanandamayi,  Shivayogini Amma, Mother Meera, Rajini Menon, Anandmurti Gurumaa, Karunamayi Ma, Vimala Thakar,  Shri Anandi Ma, Gurumatha Amma, Shree Ma who had numerous disciples in India and all over the world.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Ajay0

[Neirong]

On 05.04.2023 at 9:42 PM, helgaferae said:

A direct quote from the ancientmasters.org website of @Neirong who posts here that:

"weak, old, infantile people, women and elderly, [are] learning this"

https://ancientmasters.org/library/adam-mizner-scam

 

If only instead of looking for ego gratification on online forums, you would cultivate yourself.

Women have high potential in spiritual arts and magic, but few have the dedication and will to go through the training.

[silent thunder]

5 hours ago, Neirong said:

If only instead of looking for ego gratification on online forums, you would cultivate yourself.

this statement: a mirror of your own projection

[liminal_luke]

It's easy to look at the state of the modern world and despair, yet some things are actually improving.  A few centuries back many men believed that women lacked spiritual potential; these days the spiritual seeker logs on to Daobums and is quickly disabused of that notion.  When is the last time you heard a woman complain online about men stealing her jing?  I rest my case. 

[helgaferae]

On 09/05/2023 at 2:04 PM, Neirong said:

the dedication and will to go through the training.

Excellent of you to make such a generous offer, I accept. When do we start?

[Neirong]

5 hours ago, helgaferae said:

Excellent of you to make such a generous offer, I accept. When do we start?

You can start wherever you are ready by filling the admission form on our website/discord server.
https://discord.com/invite/Bf3tFQaNEd

Edited May 29, 2023 by Neirong

[helgaferae]

On 29/05/2023 at 2:31 AM, Neirong said:

You can start wherever you are ready by filling the admission form on our website/discord server.
https://discord.com/invite/Bf3tFQaNEd

I'm curious to know, are you speaking ESL (English as a second or foreign language, the use of English by speakers with different native languages.)? Some of  your expressions come across as condescending in tone. It may be unintentional?

 

[searcher7977]

I have not read enough of the sutras to know firsthand, but I have read in articles that there were some disparaging and outright sexist remarks. Similarly, I've read of male monks looking down on female monks in similar ways you have described.

 

Other users have already given some good information, so really I can only add some of my first hand experience: In these modern times I can say that teachers have shown no distinction between what females can achieve and what males can achieve. The head assistant to the abbot of Korinji Monastery where I went on retreat was a female nun. She ran the monastery whenever the abbot was away. She has been there for more than 5 years now. Other Rinzai Zen branch groups I attended spoke indiscriminately of students entering samadhi. 

 

Of course, mindfulness/vipassana groups I have attended were also filled with women and treated indiscriminately with regards to any progress or attainments. 

 

The only time there were any differences were when I attended (authentic) yoga classes (mainly kriya and hatha), and there were differences in which legs should cross, which nostrils to breathe through first, or some other esoteric adjustments. Obviously there are some separate practices, but the general main techniques are usually similar.

 

Still, it is sad to see buddhism marred by any sexism whatsoever. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by searcher7977

[SirPalomides]

I'm beginning to think it's a bad idea to say  "Buddhism teaches x about women" when Buddhism is so complex and diverse. That said, some very popular texts like the Lotus Sutra or the Infinite Life Sutra clearly work from a broadly held assumption that to become a Buddha, one must first be a man. That is not the same as saying "women can't become Buddhas"; it means that women can become Buddhas... by first becoming men, as seen with the case of the Lotus Sutra's dragon girl, or Amitabha's vow that women would be reborn in his Pure Land as men. My sense is that, like many philosophers through the ages, the authors of these texts saw their present social conditions as expressions of some eternal law; it wasn't so much that they hated women but they couldn't imagine a society where most women were not profoundly oppressed, so when they said to women, "You can be a man in the next life!" they really thought they were doing them a favor. 

[Neirong]

7 hours ago, helgaferae said:

I'm curious to know, are you speaking ESL (English as a second or foreign language, the use of English by speakers with different native languages.)? Some of  your expressions come across as condescending in tone. It may be unintentional?

I am curious how long it will take for you to get a discord access, so you can start asking questions there or start proper training.

[silent thunder]

On 5/30/2023 at 5:10 AM, helgaferae said:

I'm curious to know, are you speaking ESL (English as a second or foreign language, the use of English by speakers with different native languages.)? Some of  your expressions come across as condescending in tone. It may be unintentional?

 

Don't think it's a language thing, neiwrong is routinely condescending.

[helgaferae]

30 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

neiwrong

Freudian slip?

[helgaferae]

21 hours ago, Neirong said:

discord access

I've had discord for a while, presently I'm lurking, reading everything you have written and measuring your worth.

[silent thunder]

4 hours ago, helgaferae said:

Freudian slip?

nope

[Neirong]

18 hours ago, helgaferae said:

I've had discord for a while, presently I'm lurking, reading everything you have written and measuring your worth.

Lurkers don't have access to Discord; you are required to show basic manners on entry and write "Hello, I am Helgaferae," then you gain a role.

Self-development is not about sitting and satisfying your ego with various thoughts. You either practice and develop daily and progress internally, or you don't.

 

On 09.05.2023 at 4:04 PM, Neirong said:

If only instead of looking for ego gratification on online forums, you would cultivate yourself.

It is your choice, and you have been given a fair chance and opportunity. Do not blame ancient traditions, texts, or masters.
It could not have been easier than it is now to start the cultivation path.

[blue eyed snake]

23 hours ago, helgaferae said:

I've had discord for a while, presently I'm lurking, reading everything you have written and measuring your worth.

 

I am not impressed with Neirong, to the point I've put him on ignore

 

maybe you'd better look at other options

 

Just my personal opinion ofcourse

[Taoist Texts]

16 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

maybe you'd better look at other options

unfortunately there are no other options.

 

all these cultivation websites sell new-age verbiage in exchange for hard money. aimless folks wander in, pay for a couple of worthless seminars, move on, profit. thats the universal business model.

basically they are online entertainers. some of them have a fanbase.  all of them veil themselves as

20 hours ago, Neirong said:

ancient traditions, texts, or masters.

 

that said, this one

https://ancientmasters.org/library/adam-mizner-scam

 tries to  attract audience by attacking other entertainers in a chuckle-worthy pot-kettle huff. which, i concede, is mildly entertaining.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Taoist Texts

[SirPalomides]

The funny thing about ancient traditions is that they’re usually not that ancient; and when they are, they’ve been altered, remixed, and reinterpreted many times over the ages, even by people trying very hard to be “orthodox”. Maybe the biggest enemy of various spiritual scammers and gurus is an independent investigation of religious, philosophical, or esoteric history. 

[helgaferae]

On 01/06/2023 at 6:38 PM, blue eyed snake said:

I've put him on ignore

I'm going to