How does GOD,the christian god, fit into the bigger picture? Is he referred to in any of the other cosmologys of the daoists, buddhists etc?

[Takingcharge]

Good day everybody,

 

so ive been wondering how does the god of the bible fit into the other cosmologies of just about any other ancient tradition.

 

Is he referred to or recognised in any capacity by

buddhism, hinduism, daoism etc?

 

i know he shows up with the gnostics who considered him to be the demi urge  that created physical existance and the earth to trap souls

 

is he only referred to by christians? Or do other traditions recognise and place him somewhere in the cosmology ?

 

i would be interested to hear about, i havent found much so far

Edited October 24, 2022 by Takingcharge

[old3bob]

the Jewish and Muslim religions have their take...

 

Rama Krishna a well know Hindu mystic of the past was said to study all major religions so one could look up his take along such lines...and of course many dozens of others well known to history.

 

 

[Takingcharge]

15 minutes ago, old3bob said:

the Jewish and Muslim religions have their take...

 

Rama Krishna a well know Hindu mystic of the past was said to study all major religions so one could look up his take along such lines...and of course many dozens of others well known to history.

 

 

i guess i ment outside of the abrahamic religions though i know little about the jewish religion so i could look into that.

 

Il look into the hindu mystic as well,

 

im just trying to get a sense of how he fits in according to other viewpoint.    The abrahamic religions hold him as the god of gods the most high and all other beings  / deities would be  (fallen) angels and other entities according to the bible.   The koran is fond of thinking everything jinn

so hes basicly the all mighty. 

With that kind of status

 

Other ancient traditions must have some kind of note on the abrahamic god within their cosmology or viewpoint

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

Good day everybody,

 

so ive been wondering how does the god of the bible fit into the other cosmologies of just about any other ancient tradition.

 

Which God in the Bible ?    The Bible, as far as 'God' is concerned is a developmental concept and goes through very different stages , just as the Jews and Christians went through different stages themselves .

 

I dont think we can talk  sensibly about how others interacted with this God of the Bible - but how they interacted with Christians .

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

 

Is he referred to or recognised in any capacity by

buddhism, hinduism, daoism etc?

 

Well, God generally is  referred to , or denied  or modified  but I am not aware of any of those religions identifying with some  development stage of 'Leventine Deity' .

 

 

9 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

 

i know he shows up with the gnostics who considered him to be the demi urge  that created physical existance and the earth to trap souls

 

But they would be Christian Gnostics , would they not ?  Here we then have yet another variation of 'the' Christian God .

 

 

9 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

 

is he only referred to by christians? Or do other traditions recognise and place him somewhere in the cosmology ?

 

Who is this 'he'  ?  

 

You either consider religions acknowledge the same God (concept )  in different ways  or  there is only one God (or set of Gods ) and the others are faked  or ,  there IS a set of Gods, but your one is better or more suitable for you .

 

I have never heard a person of another religion refer to a 'God of the Bible'  as its own reality ( if they did, they would be Christians )  ..... there is even contention  between 'God'  and 'Allah' - and they are very close historical concepts .

 

9 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

 

i would be interested to hear about, i havent found much so far

 

 

I think your question is all tied up in  western religious conditionings .

[Cobie]

.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Cobie

[Vajra Fist]

I would say the existence of any particular deity is only important in so far as it impacts on your practice.

 

One of the neatest definitions I've seen is in Japanese Buddhism, where practices are commonly divided into 'self power' or 'other power'.

 

The idea is that with other power, or devotional practices, your transformation is due to the influence of an external deity.

 

What's happening really is that you're letting go of control and allowing things to be as they are naturally. It's an ingenious method really, as it leads to equanimity and non attachment.

 

Many Mahayana practices that profess to be 'self power' in fact still have devotional practices, and that proves useful down the road. There is often a part of you that identifies with, clings to and seeks after attainments. And that can prove problematic. Having some concept of divine grace can take away the illusion that those things are in 'your' hands at all.

 

In regards then to the Christian god, I acknowledge the possibility it might exist. But it doesn't weigh on my thoughts at all. One deity isn't necessarily better than another. But devotion to a deity can nevertheless serve as an expedient means, depending on your tradition.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Vajra Fist

[Nungali]

12 minutes ago, Takingcharge said:

i guess i ment outside of the abrahamic religions though i know little about the jewish religion so i could look into that.

 

I think you might be a little confused about religion .  If you are going to look into it ; the western concepts of religion came first through Zoroastrianism , then Judasim , Christianity, Islam and now Baha'i  (although none of them are 'western'    )  .

 

Perhaps what you are trying to track is the advent of monotheism ?    Many think the above religious stream tracks monotheism - but it doesnt .

 

Its still all a little confused ; are you saying you will look into Judaism to see if they have a concept of the Biblical God  ????

 

Errrmmmmm .... try the Old  Testament in the Bible .

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Takingcharge said:

 

Il look into the hindu mystic as well,

 

Ughhh ...

 

let's say  ' you will look into Hinduism as well .  Or better still ......  look into 'Vedanta' .  The trail * comes through there .

 

*  From Siberia , down through  Central Asia  to south Central Asia where the teachings split , east - west .   West stream develops Zoroastrianism and later , Levantine religions , east stream develops Vedanta ..... Vedanta  incorporates native 'religions' from the sub-continent  and out of that comes 'Hinduism' .

 

 

12 minutes ago, Takingcharge said:

 

im just trying to get a sense of how he fits in according to other viewpoint.

 

Then I'd suggest historical accounts  of how people viewed  Christians at certain times  ..... unless you ARE set on the 'Biblical God' (whoever that is ! ) then you have to include Jewish concepts of deity .

 

 

12 minutes ago, Takingcharge said:

   The abrahamic religions hold him as the god of gods the most high  

 

Early on , and specifically with 'Abraham'    - 'El Elyon' - the 'Most High '  (ie, head of a pantheon, so not monotheistic ) , probably an import from 'Ur'  ( supposedly Abraham's origin, or the home of the 'generic Abrahams'  - the migrating people ) .

 

 

12 minutes ago, Takingcharge said:

and all other beings / deities would be  (fallen) angels and other entities according to the bible.

 

The concept originates in Zoroastrianism as ' Amesha Spentas '

 

12 minutes ago, Takingcharge said:

  The koran is fond of thinking everything jinn

so hes basicly the all mighty. 

With that kind of status

 

 

?  

You might have to write a bit clearer to  get a good answer .

 

12 minutes ago, Takingcharge said:

 

Other ancient traditions must have some kind of note on the abrahamic god within their cosmology or viewpoint .

 

Perhaps in historical accounts , eg what the Romans thought of the Jews beliefs  but I doubt they bothered to write about  'Their Jewish  God' as a concept  .

 

Its a bit like ; I am not going to comment on my relationship, ideas  and concepts about someone else's God , but might comment about their belief in their God

.

 

 

The closest I can come to is in the Bible  where supposedly other people ( not Jews )  had some type of relationship or acknowledgement  of the 'Jewish God'  ... but that is within Judaism / Bible and not from another religion .

If you can refine your question more accurately and better , then a search can be done  with that question .

 

 

[Lairg]

There were/are various gods in the Old Testament and as a result the god of the Jews was a jealous god, forbidding having other gods before him.

 

Jahweh was given the people of Jacob by The Most High (El Elyon).  TMH was known to Egyptian and Sumerian cultures as An/Anu.  In the Sumerian tradition, Anu took that role after overthrowing Alalu in a palace coup.  Being fearful of that occurring again, he sent both his important sons to Earth, to keep them away from palace intrigues.  One of those sons (EA) was known as the prince of peace while his sociopathic half-brother (Enlil) was known as the prince of darkness.

 

Christianity followed their Messiah - called that from the Egyptian tradition of annointing kings with the fat of the Messeh - the sacred crocodile (the Makara)

 

Some Christians had trouble with the theology of their god and introduced the concept of the godhead and later of the cosmic christ.

 

 

[Nungali]

9 minutes ago, Lairg said:

There were/are various gods in the Old Testament and as a result the god of the Jews was a jealous god, forbidding having other gods before him.

 

I suppose that means  ; there where various other  concepts of Gods 'at the time ' and in that same area , which is why the religious/political leaders  using the Jehovah concept to unite people in a political unity forbade  them to acknowledge / worship / follow them  ... and that is reflected in the Old Testament .

 

 

9 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Jahweh was given the people of Jacob by The Most High (El Elyon). 

 

  

 

El Elyon  gave the Jews to Yahweh  ? 

 

- where do you get this stuff from ?

 

9 minutes ago, Lairg said:

TMH was known to Egyptian and Sumerian cultures as An/Anu.  In the Sumerian tradition, Anu took that role after overthrowing Alalu in a palace coup.  Being fearful of that occurring again, he sent both his important sons to Earth, to keep them away from palace intrigues.  One of those sons (EA) was known as the prince of peace while his sociopathic half-brother (Enlil) was known as the prince of darkness.

 

And that relates to our theme , in what way ?

 

 

9 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Christianity followed their Messiah - called that from the Egyptian tradition of annointing kings with the fat of the Messeh - the sacred crocodile (the Makara)

 

Some Christians had trouble with the theology of their god and introduced the concept of the godhead and later of the cosmic christ.

 

 

 

'The theology of their God '     what ?  God had a theology ?

 

Did you mean 'Some Christians had trouble with theology'  ( trying to explain away discrepancies in their religion by consulting and interpreting scripture )  ie, trying to understand the concept they had about God .

 

....  and the rest is so confused ... I aint even gonna try to untangle that !

[Lairg]

53 minutes ago, Nungali said:

where do you get this stuff from ?

 

Decades of reading and meditation. 

 

Google will find all the references for those interested

 

Here is an example

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jahweh+was+given+the+people+of+Jacob+by+The+Most+High&ie=UTF-8

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Lairg

[Takingcharge]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

I think you might be a little confused about religion .  If you are going to look into it ; the western concepts of religion came first through Zoroastrianism , then Judasim , Christianity, Islam and now Baha'i  (although none of them are 'western'    )  .

 

Perhaps what you are trying to track is the advent of monotheism ?    Many think the above religious stream tracks monotheism - but it doesnt .

 

Its still all a little confused ; are you saying you will look into Judaism to see if they have a concept of the Biblical God  ????

 

Errrmmmmm .... try the Old  Testament in the Bible .

 

 

 

 

Ughhh ...

 

let's say  ' you will look into Hinduism as well .  Or better still ......  look into 'Vedanta' .  The trail * comes through there .

 

*  From Siberia , down through  Central Asia  to south Central Asia where the teachings split , east - west .   West stream develops Zoroastrianism and later , Levantine religions , east stream develops Vedanta ..... Vedanta  incorporates native 'religions' from the sub-continent  and out of that comes 'Hinduism' .

 

 

 

Then I'd suggest historical accounts  of how people viewed  Christians at certain times  ..... unless you ARE set on the 'Biblical God' (whoever that is ! ) then you have to include Jewish concepts of deity .

 

 

 

Early on , and specifically with 'Abraham'    - 'El Elyon' - the 'Most High '  (ie, head of a pantheon, so not monotheistic ) , probably an import from 'Ur'  ( supposedly Abraham's origin, or the home of the 'generic Abrahams'  - the migrating people ) .

 

 

 

The concept originates in Zoroastrianism as ' Amesha Spentas '

 

 

 

?  

You might have to write a bit clearer to  get a good answer .

 

 

Perhaps in historical accounts , eg what the Romans thought of the Jews beliefs  but I doubt they bothered to write about  'Their Jewish  God' as a concept  .

 

Its a bit like ; I am not going to comment on my relationship, ideas  and concepts about someone else's God , but might comment about their belief in their God

.

 

 

The closest I can come to is in the Bible  where supposedly other people ( not Jews )  had some type of relationship or acknowledgement  of the 'Jewish God'  ... but that is within Judaism / Bible and not from another religion .

If you can refine your question more accurately and better , then a search can be done  with that question .

 

 

Good to see some discussion going on.

 

il be back later to write a responce

[old3bob]

one could spend lifetimes in study along these lines, and become quite the "expert" and historian,   but that will never be enough or answer the burning need of soul for spirit...trying to turn over every rock and solving every riddle may be a need for awhile but has its limits....  

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Decades of reading and meditation. 

 

Google will find all the references for those interested

 

Here is an example

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jahweh+was+given+the+people+of+Jacob+by+The+Most+High&ie=UTF-8

 

 

 

 

Decades of google and Jehovah's Witness magazines  .... that  explains a lot .

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, old3bob said:

one could spend lifetimes in study along these lines, and become quite the "expert" and historian,   but that will never be enough or answer the burning need of soul for spirit...trying to turn over every rock and solving every riddle may be a need for awhile but has its limits....  

 

If it bugs you, then stop reading  the  Tao Te Ching, Vedas, Bible, and Sutras .

 

If it bugs you that others study them , stop reading their observations about it .

 

One can spend a lifetime studying Comparative Religion and Divinity and never become 'quite the "expert" and historian'  .... nor indeed. even have that as a goal .  While others are content to lie back and suck on the big titty of 'religion that is already all worked out for you ', thats a simple path - just do what you are told and follow directions .

 

 

Maybe it could be considered that 'the  burning need of soul for spirit '  fuelled the intellectual approach in the first place - for some of us born under the rays of Mercury ?  Of course, study and knowledge alone isnt enough ... it needs to be bought into practices.

 

Alternately , no study or realisations , then you will not know what the practices are . . .  unless you are 'religious' then you can simply mimic  .

 

Many dont like the intellectual approach , but it is one of the major 'yogas'  ... and I will add, one that seems to have fallen out of fashion !

 

And in case some are ignorant of this 'set of modes' we all should be operating under - to some extent ;

 

The Intellectual -  Gnana Yoga  ( yeah, its a thing ! ) - development  and balancing of the mind and intellect.

The Emotional -  Bakti Yoga . - development and balancing of the emotional body

Physical Internal- Hatha Yoga . - development and balancing of the physical body and its abilities .

Physical External - Karma Yoga . -  using all the above to do 'good works' , and live an enjoyable life.

 

[old3bob]

if it bugs "you" then don't make presumptuous  projections out of mole hills...

Edited October 26, 2022 by old3bob

[exorcist_1699]

I do think that the Christian God , the Buddhist Buddha Heart and the  Taoist Tao are talking about the same thing despite of  their seemingly big differences, for example there is no Father-like  Creator figure in Taoism and Buddhism , and  Christian praying is quite different from Zen's no-Mind cultivation ..etc due their geographical and historical reasons. These differences bewilder many people and trap them in endless, useless arguments .  No need to go into details of  them here  ,  a possible way to solve it is  to combine them  , say  in fact , people  can ,  by singing the name of Jesus Christ repeatedly  ,  lead themselves into a mindless state . Through it,  enables their capabilities of  initializing  qi from the  lower dantian .. ;  as qi arises and purifies , the mindless state turns into  to a more secure No-mind state, and qi further expands to the outside world , which then gives rise to many religious feelings  :  feeling of oneself united with the whole cosmos ,  feeling of linking with  all humans , even all lives , and the pity towards them ..etc

Edited October 26, 2022 by exorcist_1699

[Cobie]

.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Cobie

[blue eyed snake]

6 hours ago, Cobie said:

Really? 
 

Are you actually close to any practicing Christians? 

 

 

 

My best friend is a devout Christian, it's interesting that she tells me about  the same sort of experiences as a result from her long prayer sessions as I have from mediation.

 

 

[Master Logray]

I think Taoist world creation is an energy model, how from nothing/one to two and to diversity.  While Christian world creation is how this particular world is created.  Buddhist model is geographical, how the world consists of many many galaxies, to the micro particles world.  Hindu is a construction model, worlds are created and destroyed. 

[Zorro Dantes]

Do abrahamics even believe in god is the question. It’s seems to be abrahamic religions unsaid quest to end the earths life for the sake of business. I’ve recently had a dream and spoke to Jesus on the matter and the response is probably biased seeing how it was dream but made a wild load of sense. This is what Jesus said to me

”those who believe solely in me and not in my father shall also suffer the furry of hell, not only in this life and the lower regions of the after life. But In the heavens itself” I don’t know 🤔 that kinda shook the shit outta me I wouldn’t even consider myself a part of the church  but then again I’ve also had dreams of vajrapani explaining to me that my tribe’s trickster god was also a being like him and that’s the reason I’ve been drawn to the interest of kung fu    
qi gong etc….from what I got out that. My tribes trickster is like a holy yaksha?….big head scrawny limbs big belly.

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

My best friend is a devout Christian, it's interesting that she tells me about  the same sort of experiences as a result from her long prayer sessions as I have from mediation.

 

 

 

The religious path uses many 'magical technologies'  .   Prayer can be a type of devotional meditation .

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Zorro Dantes said:

Do abrahamics even believe in god is the question. It’s seems to be abrahamic religions unsaid quest to end the earths life for the sake of business. I’ve recently had a dream and spoke to Jesus on the matter and the response is probably biased seeing how it was dream but made a wild load of sense. This is what Jesus said to me

”those who believe solely in me and not in my father shall also suffer the furry of hell, not only in this life and the lower regions of the after life. But In the heavens itself” I don’t know 🤔 that kinda shook the shit outta me I wouldn’t even consider myself a part of the church  but then again I’ve also had dreams of vajrapani explaining to me that my tribe’s trickster god was also a being like him and that’s the reason I’ve been drawn to the interest of kung fu    
qi gong etc….from what I got out that. My tribes trickster is like a holy yaksha?….big head scrawny limbs big belly.

 

 

Ohhh NO !  ..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[exorcist_1699]

On 2022/10/26 at 1:41 PM, Cobie said:

Really? 
 

Are you actually close to any practicing Christians? 

 

 

All religions have two concerns, one is about individuals' relation with other people  , one is about individuals'  relation with the cosmos . However, besides in nighttime when we look up the sky decorated with countless stars and wonder what the cosmos is  , in most of the daytime , we succumb to the relations with people , that means , it is the social aspect of  religion that  always dominates , which also bewilders us ,making us forget its other , more fundamental aspect.

 

Meditation ,a common element we can find in nearly all religions, in which people of different religions can  talk directly to their God/gods  , not via other symbols , ceremonies or norms . Although the steps and  skills of meditations are varied  ( praying is one of them )  , there is some least common way  among them that we can grasp , dilute and summarize as  what I mentioned in the previous post .

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by exorcist_1699

[Cobie]

.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Cobie

[Bindi]

 

“Shangdi”  (Chinese: 上帝; pinyin: Shàngdì), the “Supreme Deity" or "Highest Deity" found in Classical Chinese texts is a good candidate for the “singular universal deity” of Christianity. “Shangdi" is the word used for the God of Abrahamic religions.

 

Evidence for Original Monotheism in Ancient China

…Thong has undertaken to discern God’s attributes as communicated in the Chinese classics using Legge’s complete and unaltered translation. In his book, Faith of Our Fathers, Thong provides evidence from the Chinese classics that Shang Di is sovereign, eternal, immutable, powerful, all-knowing, ever-present, and infinite. Similarly, Thong shows that the moral attributes of Shang Di include love, holiness, grace, faithfulness, goodness, mercy, compassion, and justice.⁷ Thong concludes that Shang Di is the one true Creator God of the Hebrews revealed in the Bible, known from the earliest times of Chinese civilization…

 

^{https://reasons.org/explore/blogs/voices/evidence-for-original-monotheism-in-ancient-china}

Edited October 28, 2022 by Bindi