Differences between dualism and non-dualism

[Cobie]

15 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

I had a friend who did research into cancer victims … and found that the one theme in all the interviews she carried out was that the patients had gone through a time in their lives when they should have changed and didn't.  I suppose this could be termed a kind of passivity - or perhaps more a habitualness. 

 

“they should have changed and didn't”  Sure, blame the victim. It’s a disgusting thing to say. 
I lost loved ones to cancer. I don’t think it’s true.

With the right biased set of questions you will get the result you crave.

 

That mindset works only for the ‘worried well’ (fearful of disease and death but still in good health).
Make yourself feel good, a bit more ‘cultivating’ and you will not get cancer, at the expense of the sick and dying.

Anyone can get cancer, there are no psychological reasons, it’s just how life is. You will die too.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

Oh thank you so much for your ‘like’. I am sitting here crying for the dead, then they are being blamed for it. Thought I was ranting a bit, thought this is for me worth getting banned for. 
 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Cobie

[natural]

2 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Oh thank you so much for your ‘like’. I am sitting here crying for the dead, then they are being blamed for it. Thought I was ranting a bit, thought this is for me worth getting banned for. 
 

 

 

I am not qualified to offer much more than been there done that. Hang in there!

[steve]

34 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

I had a friend who did research into cancer victims and psychological/spiritual causes and found that the one theme in all the interviews she carried out was that the patients had gone through a time in their lives when they should have changed and didn't.  I suppose this could be termed a kind of passivity - or perhaps more a habitualness.  Maybe in the subtle body this same factor is reflected in the fields that this lady is picking up.

 

It's a feature of the great Karmapa Lamas that they predict their own deaths.  The Sixteenth Karmapa got liver cancer and died (without painkillers).  I guess you could say he and others accepted death - but also it raises the question why if they are great realised beings why they didn't heal themselves (?)  But this could also go to the non-dual perspective in that if physical death is directly perceived as more of a transition or phase change then the status of physical death is diminished - and perhaps a master on knowing they are dying just accepts it (?).  Perhaps the status of physical death is changed relative to how we see it.

 

 

 

 

 

If we polled everyone on earth, I suspect the vast majority could be said to have had a time in their life when they “should have changed and didn’t.” 

 

The human condition includes illness and death. The causes of cancer are multifactorial. I believe this includes genetics, environmental toxicity, as well as psychological and emotional factors, among others. I do not mean to imply that the victim is at fault but I think it would be wrong to exclude the contribution of psycho-emotional factors to physical health and vice versa. Realized beings and great masters are not exceptions to this and while some illnesses can be treated and cured, many cannot, and everyone dies. 

 

Nondual realization does not cause passivity, immorality, or cancer BTW.

That is just mind games. If anything it is a foundation for morality and positive action, IME.

[Apech]

21 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

“they should have changed and didn't”  Sure, blame the victim. It’s a disgusting thing to say. 
I lost loved ones to cancer. I don’t think it’s true.

With the right biased set of questions you will get the result you crave.

 

That mindset works only for the ‘worried well’ (fearful of disease and death but still in good health).
Make yourself feel good, a bit more ‘cultivating’ and you will not get cancer, at the expense of the sick and dying.

Anyone can get cancer, there are no psychological reasons, it’s just how life is. You will die too.

 

 

 

It was what the interviewed cancer sufferers said about themselves.  Unfortunately I can't find the study online - it was conducted sometime on the 1990's and was published research.

 

Sorry if it upsets you but as you an see it was nothing to do with blaming but just valid self-assessment.

 

 

[natural]

8 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

It was what the interviewed cancer sufferers said about themselves.  Unfortunately I can't find the study online - it was conducted sometime on the 1990's and was published research.

 

Sorry if it upsets you but as you an see it was nothing to do with blaming but just valid self-assessment.

 

 

 

I try my best not to share my self-assessment with out a strong and defined need to know.

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, natural said:

 

I try my best not to share my self-assessment with out a strong and defined need to know.

 

I have no idea what that means.

[natural]

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

I have no idea what that means.

 

I suggest then it is time for you to perform a self assessment.

And please feel free to share it with me! 

LOL

[liminal_luke]

57 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Make yourself feel good, a bit more ‘cultivating’ and you will not get cancer, 

 

 

This.

 

A pitfall of research into the psycho-emotional causes of cancer and other diseases is that the results can be used to prop up a false sense of control.  We think that if only passive people get cancer and we're not passive we won't get it.  The knowledge should be used to help the sick but instead it's used to offer illusory comfort to the healthy.

[liminal_luke]

26 minutes ago, natural said:

 

I try my best not to share my self-assessment with out a strong and defined need to know.

 

I should take a note from your book, natural.  I've a tendency to overshare self-assessments.  Like to think this is part of my "charm" but sometimes I wish I'd keep my opinions to myself.

[steve]

34 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I should take a note from your book, natural.  I've a tendency to overshare self-assessments.  Like to think this is part of my "charm" but sometimes I wish I'd keep my opinions to myself.

 

I appreciate your openness and circumspection. For me it is a part of your charm but no doubt I’ll still love you even if you hold back.

☺️

[Apech]

55 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

This.

 

A pitfall of research into the psycho-emotional causes of cancer and other diseases is that the results can be used to prop up a false sense of control.  We think that if only passive people get cancer and we're not passive we won't get it.  The knowledge should be used to help the sick but instead it's used to offer illusory comfort to the healthy.

 

Do you see no value in the idea of subtle body or 'bio-field' contributions to disease and don't you think that both mentation and consciousness can impact on this?  

 

 

[ralis]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

This.

 

A pitfall of research into the psycho-emotional causes of cancer and other diseases is that the results can be used to prop up a false sense of control.  We think that if only passive people get cancer and we're not passive we won't get it.  The knowledge should be used to help the sick but instead it's used to offer illusory comfort to the healthy.

 

I would recommend doing some reading on this as opposed to proceeding from incorrect conclusions.

[liminal_luke]

3 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Do you see no value in the idea of subtle body or 'bio-field' contributions to disease and don't you think that both mentation and consciousness can impact on this?  

 

 

I see great value in thinking about how our energetic bodies and psycho/emotional habits contribute to health and disease.  What we habitually think and habitually feel has a great influence upon our health.  No doubt.  In my opinion, these factors are right up there with diet and exercise.  It's possible through self-reflection and openness to our own process to gain great insight into how these factors play a part in our individual lives.  This insight is often invaluable, occasionally curative.  What's less useful is when someone else makes a statement like "you got cancer because you're too passive."  General knowledge that may be true in a broad statistical way should not be used to make definitive statements about individuals.  

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I see great value in thinking about how our energetic bodies and psycho/emotional habits contribute to health and disease.  What we habitually think and habitually feel has a great influence upon our health.  No doubt.  In my opinion, these factors are right up there with diet and exercise.  It's possible through self-reflection and openness to our own process to gain great insight into how these factors play a part in our individual lives.  This insight is often invaluable, occasionally curative.  What's less useful is when someone else makes a statement like "you got cancer because you're too passive."  General knowledge that may be true in a broad statistical way should not be used to make definitive statements about individuals.  

 

Have you at any time considered standing for political office?

 

 

[ralis]

36 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I see great value in thinking about how our energetic bodies and psycho/emotional habits contribute to health and disease.  What we habitually think and habitually feel has a great influence upon our health.  No doubt.  In my opinion, these factors are right up there with diet and exercise.  It's possible through self-reflection and openness to our own process to gain great insight into how these factors play a part in our individual lives.  This insight is often invaluable, occasionally curative.  What's less useful is when someone else makes a statement like "you got cancer because you're too passive."  General knowledge that may be true in a broad statistical way should not be used to make definitive statements about individuals.  

 

In spite of what many think, we are an EM field (light) which is complex and not separate from the biosphere in any way. What if Dr. Hunt is correct that passivity leads to cancer? In Ken Wilbur's book "Spiritual Choices" he posited data that meditators have a higher cancer and heart disease rate than non meditators. Why? the spiritual path leads for the most part to abject passivity and suppressed emotions. Many traditions view emotions as poisons.

 

Remember my previous posts on heart arrhythmia etc. which was caused by so called energy work? The only way I survived was with intense emotion and no passive acceptance! I won't go into the details here, but it was will power and emotion that saved my ass!

Edited May 23, 2022 by ralis

[old3bob]

speaking of cancer, with all the chemicals and mixtures of unhealthy compounds (or active and newly arising pathogens) floating around in our environment and in our air, water and food God only knows what the hell we are up against biologically and how much the human body and positive emotions can mitigate or overcome!

Edited May 23, 2022 by old3bob

[liminal_luke]

3 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

In spite of what many think, we are an EM field (light) which is complex and not separate from the biosphere in any way. What if Dr. Hunt is correct that passivity leads to cancer? In Ken Wilbur's book "Spiritual Choices" he posited data that meditators have a higher cancer and heart disease rate than non meditators. Why? the spiritual path leads for the most part to abject passivity and suppressed emotions. Many traditions view emotions as poisons.

 

Like you, ralis, I believe that suppressed emotions often lead to ill health.  On a different note, I've decided to run for public office -- may I count on your vote?

[ralis]

1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Like you, ralis, I believe that suppressed emotions often lead to ill health.  On a different note, I've decided to run for public office -- may I count on your vote?

 

Vote for what party?

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Like you, ralis, I believe that suppressed emotions often lead to ill health.  On a different note, I've decided to run for public office -- may I count on your vote?

 

 

You got mine!

[ralis]

27 minutes ago, old3bob said:

speaking of cancer, with all the chemicals and mixtures of unhealthy compounds (or active and newly arising pathogens) floating around in our environment and in our air, water and food God only knows what the hell we are up against biologically and how much the human body and positive emotions can mitigate or overcome!

 

Indeed!

[S:C]

   ...

Edited May 23, 2022 by schroedingerscat
seemed unimportant.

[Brad M]

I have been following this conversation on and off for the past few weeks, and after giving the topic some thought--and this is not responsive to the cancer argument, so apologies--my metaphysical conclusion is that the concept of dualism is driven entirely by ego.  It is a selfishness.  The concept a soul exists only in the abstract world of the mind, i.e. the realm of phenomenon.  Abstractions themselves are pure, unborn, undying, perfect.  We resort to notions of dualisim in order to reinforce a notion that there is some perfect soul behind our eyes, which is pure, unborn and undying.  People cant accept their moral, physical or other imperfections (cancer, for example), and so they resort to positing a being in the abstract, which separate from their physical body and is unsoiled.  Problem is how do we advance our beings if we accept that we are made of a pure soul and an impure body? ... dieting? 

 

maybe people object to non-dualism based on the idea of having no soul--they object to the idea of existing only in the physical world.  To me, however, non-dualism is the opposite.  Non-dualism is having only sprit, imperfect as it may be.  It is the physical world that is the illusion, an abstraction created in the realm of phenomenon.  When photons bounce off the mirror and stimulate the cone and rod receptors of my eyes, the resulting image in my head is not what I am.  I am the sun, with rays shining out, but never in, erupting, revolving, and touching everything I contact.  

 

Not sure if its good form to organize personal thoughts by writing them out and sharing them with strangers on the internet.  Apologies for the non-conversational rant.   

      

[old3bob]

A balance in emotional control would seemingly be a healthy norm...for un-suppressed emotions like rage and malice compared to suppressed emotions could (also) or would swing one into destructive or horrific actions and outcomes! 

Edited May 23, 2022 by old3bob

[dawn90]

Is everything that I can feel. As a human being.

Should be felt? Or do I have to pick and choose, and in order to pick and choose I need a system that tells me what I should pick and choose? Sometimes I feel we can go one way or the other: either.

You suppress.

Or you completely let go, without restriction.

 

I agree with Old3bob.

There has to be some sort of healthy balance or else you just fall into chaos.

I think. Especially, if you've been a victim of an oppressive system the temptation is to go completely the other way and say.

I'm not restraining myself in anything.

I'm living my life, now.

And no person will ever tell me.

What to do.

I think that's a grave mistake.

Edited May 23, 2022 by dawn90