After Self-realization, what else needs to be done?

[dwai]

It’s very fascinating to see so many perspectives on a simple topic such as this. Thank you all for sharing your views  

Do bear this in mind that just because we may not agree on something doesn’t mean we can’t be friends... 🤗

 

As far as the “truth” is concerned, it is reputed to be able to set us free. I pray that all of us are freed from delusion in this very lifetime, and don’t need to come back again once more (unless you want to). 

[Limahong]

53 minutes ago, dwai said:

It’s very fascinating to see so many perspectives on a simple topic such as this.

 

Hi dwai,

 

This is a simple topic...?

 

On 11/27/2020 at 12:54 AM, dwai said:

After Self-realization, what else needs to be done?

 

No ~ but one... simplistic to a fault...

 

 

 

 

- Anand

 

 

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, Sketch said:

I see where my ideas are different from how a few of you cats think. 

 

I'm just interested in moving forward. An  idea of "Perfection"  is useless to me. Good for you folks who "Achieved " what you set out to do. We're all better off with you as you are now. That's how I understand the story of Milarepa, too.

 

If I ran out of skills to develop, what would I do then? Does Cook Ding run out of Oxen to butcher?

It's just more music. Once you get the instrument in tune, you begin. You join the music, you don't make it.  The music never stops.

 

and the dancer moves far faster than the speed of light, so fast in fact that he is standing perfectly still...

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, Sketch said:

The music never stops.

 

 

 

\

 

 

 

[steve]

4 hours ago, silent thunder said:

music.

 

where does music exist? 

where does music live?

 

in the instrument?

in the musician?

in the air?

 

in the fingers?  in the breath? 

                           or the strings?

 

in the mind?

in the ear?

in the air?

 

when i think of music, when i hear music only in my mind but not my ear, is this music?

 

where does music live?

is there a difference between music arising and music abiding?

is there an appreciable difference between arising and abiding?

 

I share this not to distract, but because @Sketch reminded me of this question that arises often for me in recent years.

This metaphor of musician instrument and music is a resonant one for me...  And a triad, not a duality ^{(which pings a resonant significance)}

 

And after pondering where music lives for a time...

i found mind substituting the word awakening for music to rather interesting results.

 

 

For me this is a beautiful illustration of dependent origination.

[old3bob]

5 hours ago, silent thunder said:

music.

 

where does music exist? 

where does music live?

 

in the instrument?

in the musician?

in the air?

 

in the fingers?  in the breath? 

                           or the strings?

 

in the mind?

in the ear?

in the air?

 

when i think of music, when i hear music only in my mind but not my ear, is this music?

 

where does music live?

is there a difference between music arising and music abiding?

is there an appreciable difference between arising and abiding?

 

I share this not to distract, but because @Sketch reminded me of this question that arises often for me in recent years.

This metaphor of musician instrument and music is a resonant one for me...  And a triad, not a duality ^{(which pings a resonant significance)}

 

And after pondering where music lives for a time...

i found mind substituting the word awakening for music to rather interesting results.

 

 

in the silence that roars...

[silent thunder]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

in the silence that roars...

Nice One!

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, steve said:

 

Hi Anand,

Phet

Sounds like 'pay'

Is a Tibetan seed syllable.

It is often used to cut through delusion, through the busy mind.

It brings the mind to the clarity and immediacy of the present moment in the quiet and still space after shouting PHET!

Sort of like getting whacked by a Zen master's stick.

I was once hanging out with some friends and it spontaneously came out of me really loud and sharp, totally unexpected.

One of the guys, not a practitioner of anything in particular, responded to it powerfully, told me it "woke me up!"

 

 

 

 

 

Thats what a Lama  screamed at us during 'meditation'    . Because the people where not meditating at all  actually , well not in my opinion  ... they where acting 'cool'  pretending to be all peaceful and calm with eyes closed and in lotus . he scared the shit out of them, some of them seemed to actually 'levitate' a little in their startled 'jump'   (not me though, I was suspicious and had one eye on lama and saw him take a huge breath in for the coming expulsion .

 

In the few seconds that followed,  while people where still in shock he  "  Thats it !  That's  it  NOW you are mediating NOW you are aware ,    HOLD IT  !  .... oh, you are loosing it , now you are going back to being asleep again  ."

 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, dwai said:

It’s very fascinating to see so many perspectives on a simple topic such as this. Thank you all for sharing your views  

Do bear this in mind that just because we may not agree on something doesn’t mean we can’t be friends... 🤗

 

As far as the “truth” is concerned, it is reputed to be able to set us free. I pray that all of us are freed from delusion in this very lifetime, and don’t need to come back again once more (unless you want to). 

 

 

'And in the end .....'

 

The End

 Unto them from whose eyes the veil of life hath fallen may there be granted the accomplishment of their true Wills; whether they will absorption in the Infinite, or to be united with their chosen and preferred, or to be in contemplation, or to be at peace, or to achieve the labour and heroism of incarnation on this planet or another, or in any Star, or aught else, unto them may there be granted the accomplishment of their wills; yea, the accomplishment of their wills.

"

 

 

[Nungali]

On 29/11/2020 at 7:29 AM, Limahong said:

 

 

Hi Nun,

 

Now that you have been told ~ you believe?

 

I am not sure if...

 

 

 

- Anand

 

 

 

He LIMI do you mind NOT quoting me and then inserting an answer  to what I said that is cut out from a totally different response and then asking me a question about that ?    I looked back 3 pages to try and find   what you where on about  ... until I realised you  constructed that yourself .

 

NAUGHTY ! 

 

 

If you didnt get it  it was joke about Jesus being Jewish .

 

here, I will put it in a format you might understand ;

 

 

A Rabbi lamenting he didnt see what Jesus said and create 10002 of new followers

 

Why did I not think of this before ;

 

 

and < shrug > -   'Oh well ! "

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Nungali

[steve]

28 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

Thats what a Lama  screamed at us during 'meditation'    . Because the people where not meditating at all  actually , well not in my opinion  ... they where acting 'cool'  pretending to be all peaceful and calm with eyes closed and in lotus . he scared the shit out of them, some of them seemed to actually 'levitate' a little in their startled 'jump'   (not me though, I was suspicious and had one eye on lama and saw him take a huge breath in for the coming expulsion .

 

In the few seconds that followed,  while people where still in shock he  "  Thats it !  That's  it  NOW you are mediating NOW you are aware ,    HOLD IT  !  .... oh, you are loosing it , now you are going back to being asleep again  ."

 

 

Exactly!

 

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

Thats what a Lama  screamed at us during 'meditation'    . Because the people where not meditating at all  actually , well not in my opinion  ... they where acting 'cool'  pretending to be all peaceful and calm with eyes closed and in lotus . he scared the shit out of them, some of them seemed to actually 'levitate' a little in their startled 'jump'   (not me though, I was suspicious and had one eye on lama and saw him take a huge breath in for the coming expulsion .

 

In the few seconds that followed,  while people where still in shock he  "  Thats it !  That's  it  NOW you are mediating NOW you are aware ,    HOLD IT  !  .... oh, you are loosing it , now you are going back to being asleep again  ."

 

 

btw, meditating on what?

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

NAUGHTY ! 

 

Hi Nun,

 

You are No.1 at it.

 

I learn it from you after joining TDB.

 

Respectfully yours,

 

 

- Anand

 

 

[Limahong]

25 minutes ago, old3bob said:

btw, meditating on what?

 

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

... the people where not meditating at all  actually , well not in my opinion  ... they where acting 'cool'  pretending to be all peaceful and calm ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Limahong
Enhancement

[Nungali]

33 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

btw, meditating on what?

 

Exactly .

 

I think the 'crowd' missed the Lama's point

 

Background;   The gathering / talk was held in our riverside meditation sanctuary . At the beginning lama commented on;  " This is a beautiful spot, what use is this building for ? "  

 

Some woman visitor, not from our place and not from the Buddhist group pipes up  "Its a mediation sanctuary ! "

 

Lama ; "Oh ? You do mediation ?  "

 

Woman ; " Oh yes ! "

 

Lama ; "Good , we meditate then ." And all ( well nearly all   )   'asumed the position'  and sat there with eyes closed . Not me, I was watching , so was Lama  an he noticed me and mimed to me to close my eyes , so I did  ... then opened them again , thats when I saw him taking in a huge breath for his   .... 

 

 

"   PEH !  " 

 

Not sure they got his point though . he then asked , "What else building used for ?"

 

She pre-empted others answers again  " Healing ."

 

Lama; " Oh, you do healing ?"

 

"Yes I do  ?"

 

"Where do get healing power from ? "

 

" From God ."   

 

Lama ;  " Whoa ... stop there !  ....... < sincere >   there is no 'God'  ? "

 

Shock horror through the crowd  ... who is this imposter !     

 

Lama ; " yes, difficult isnt it ? "  But now the woman, getting defensive  ( with a lama    )  ;

 

"Well, then, before YOU said you where a healer . if you dont believe in God , where do YOU get your healing powers from ?"

 

Lama   " Why .... from my mother of course ! " 

 

(That shut her up )

 

I really liked that guy . I have had similarinteractions with them , but all from  Kargu karma tradition  ;    BBQ in backyard of temple ( that had  stray dog with 3 legs, one cat and  some homeless people camped out there in the back  yard - Buddhism in action !  )    ... we ran out of milk for coffee one elected to go to shop and asked me if I wanted to come for the drive . he was in full robes, driving a hotted up car like a maniac ... I held on for dear life ... f  wheelies ,  ishtails, hanging it out on corners      . 

 

All interspaced with chanting visualisations of Chod rite  ... in Tibetan ... just follow the easy pronunciation guide folks   (just as well they had no idea of the translation    . 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

52 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Nun,

 

You are No.1 at it.

 

I learn it from you after joining TDB.

 

Respectfully yours,

 

 

- Anand

 

 

 

 

 

No 1 at being  naughty , like you   (which I NEVER chastise you for )  but not No 1 at  cutting and pasting  to make up a   fake response .

 

 

... find your inner dog  ?  Well Limi  that seems to be the heart of my 'problem' , I found my inner dog , and gave him free reign  . Dog barks and growls when he detects  ........

 

(  also might explain  the 'play' I have with all the cat people here )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Nungali

[Limahong]

12 minutes ago, Nungali said:

No 1 at being  naughty , like you   (which I NEVER chastise you for )  but not No 1 at  cutting and pasting  to make up a   fake response .

 

 

 

I am going for an appointment.

 

G'Day Mate!

 

- Anand

 

 

[old3bob]

5 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Nice One!

 

well similar to your handle guy 

[old3bob]

On 11/28/2020 at 4:05 PM, Bindi said:

If the Self might be termed my Spirit, and that’s already a big if, but if it can, then it can get our attention quite early on. Then it needs to find a way to communicate what it needs us (our conscious self) to do, and how to do it. I have found that in general my Spirit wants my subtle energy channels to be clear, I can’t say why because it’s not my conscious mind that makes this decision, but I’d say this is what there is to do once our Spirit has been recognised, a lot of clearing and cleaning from emotional and mental to karmic issues. This is what makes it as good as a lifetime job. 
 

Recognising you are the Self and that there is nothing left to do is in my mind a false conclusion, yes you may be the Self, but your conscious mind is not actually aligned with the Self in any true fashion, which is why this error can be made. 

 

a very important point that I relate to in the sense of a visitor...for instance or in a sort of analogy:

a human visits the Self and is thus the Self for an eternal moment yet then spins back to a human perspective;  but that can switch around with the Self taking over and then visiting the human, and when that is in effect then much of the mountain of work is complete.   

Edited November 30, 2020 by old3bob

[Limahong]

On 11/27/2020 at 12:54 AM, dwai said:

After Self-realization, what else needs to be done?

 

Hi dwai,

 

Before self-realization, what needs to be done?

 

Before comes before After. 

 

Before needs to be addressed first before After?

 

 

 

- Anand

 

[dwai]

1 minute ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi dwai,

 

Before self-realization, what needs to be done?

 

Before comes before After. 

 

Before needs to be addressed first before After?

 

 

 

- Anand

 

Sheer genius  

[manitou]

On 11/27/2020 at 10:43 AM, anshino23 said:

Moving further, you enter the fourth path of "true cultivation". Here one progresses, equipped with insight, to eradicate all the karmic hindrances from one's beginningless past, removing all emotional obscurations and blockades to the unimpeded, universal understanding of all phenomena. You gain power and skill in both self-liberation and in the instruction of others, mastering eloquence, knowledges both worldy and dharmic, all forms of meditation, etc.

 

 

 

I think this paragraph finally gets to it.  All paths do lead to the void in the center, but to see it as void we have to remove our conditioning.  

 

Once someone has gotten to the place of minimal conditioning, the more clarity they have.  The self-mastery at this point becomes very subtle.  It's not even actions that we monitor within ourselves, it's also thoughts.  Like the Nazarene said, to keep your eyes high up on the hill.  Our manifestations change.  Certainly all attitudes.  Recognizing the oneness of everyone and everything is a cause for real joy.  You are never a stranger.  You aren't at odds with people any more, because you realize that you and the other are one and the same.  Your thoughts, through training, are nothing but supportive, never critical.  You accept every single thing that happens for what it is, not what you think it should be.

 

You cease becoming competitive with others because you are totally sure of yourself.  All paths have been transcended.  'Learning' is no longer the important thing, but how to live out your new identity becomes the daily practice.

 

For those who have yet to relieve themselves of conditioning, and yet have the desire for enlightenment, the only path forward is inward.  You can start from where you are.  Start noticing your patterns, and any memories that may be attached.  Look truthfully at the part you played in all arguments and sour relationships.  Don't blame anyone for anything, it's not ours to judge.  If there are things you need to apologize for, this is the time to do it.  Just get this stuff out of the way; stand up to your full stature and own your behavior.  Correct that which needs to be corrected for full clarity.  Resentments, hatreds, and judgments are the very thing that keep us from enlightenment.  The loving heart must be found.

[Limahong]

33 minutes ago, manitou said:

The loving heart must be found.

 

 

 

 

[old3bob]

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

a very important point that I relate to in the sense of a visitor...for instance or in a sort of analogy:

a human visits the Self and is thus the Self for an eternal moment yet then spins back to a human perspective;  but that can switch around with the Self taking over and then visiting the human, and when that is in effect then much of the mountain of work is complete.   

 

And since there are so many Buddhists here perhaps consider correlating the following as described as "reaching" or "visiting",  with visiting maybe not being the best word usage although imo true in a sense.

 

"After reaching the first jhana the ardent meditator can go on to reach the higher jhanas, which is done by eliminating the coarser factors in each jhana. Beyond the four jhanas lies another fourfold set of higher meditative states which deepen still further the element of serenity. These attainments (aruppa), are the base of boundless space, the base of boundless consciousness, the base of nothingness, and the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception.[4] In the Pali commentaries these come to be called the four immaterial jhanas (arupajhana), the four preceding states being renamed for the sake of clarity, the four fine-material jhanas (rupajhana). Often the two sets are joined together under the collective title of the eight jhanas or the eight attainments (atthasamapattiyo)."

 

(and according to Buddhist scripture  the historic Buddha "visited" some of these before his passing, although I don't have the text at the moment)

Edited November 30, 2020 by old3bob

[Maddie]

12 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

(and according to Buddhist scripture  the historic Buddha "visited" some of these before his passing, although I don't have the text at the moment)

 

I believe its the Mahaparanibbna sutta