After Self-realization, what else needs to be done?

[manitou]

2 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Limmers - When we kiss, do you close your eyes, pretending that I'm someone else?

[manitou]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:55 AM, Limahong said:

 

 

 

 

That's one furled fault fold.

[Geof Nanto]

From reading these Dao Bums discussions the sincerity of the majority of members is apparent. And it’s obvious a number of people here have had real spiritual experiences. There are strong strands of profound insight on display along with plenty of knowledge of a wide selection of spiritual teachings. That’s why I like the place. However it’s also obvious from the way these discussions are shaped and play out that in most all cases, including my own, these insights sit within a chaotic web of poorly acknowledged emotions. Hence I have no trouble concluding that a lot more needs to be done by us all, and even more so by those who are apparently too blinded by their own light to see their own darkness.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Yueya

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

 

Limmers - When we kiss, do you close your eyes, pretending that I'm someone else?

 

sounds like an inside story 

[manitou]

16 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

sounds like an inside story 

 

 

it is an inside story, as it would be for you too if you listened to the song.  

[manitou]

25 minutes ago, Yueya said:

That’s why I like the place. However it’s also obvious from the way these discussions are shaped and play out that in most all cases, including my own, these insights sit within a chaotic web of poorly acknowledged emotions. Hence I have no trouble concluding that a lot more needs to be done by us all, and even more so by those who are apparently too blinded by their own light to see their own darkness.

 

 

 

Your insights here are so valued.  By me, at least.  When you say a chaotic web of poorly acknowledged emotions, are you referring to the fact that it results in too many egos clashing here?  That folks who fight consistently do so because they have a need to do so, to protect themselves from an underlying fear from many years ago?

Or are you speaking of something else?

 

[Geof Nanto]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

 

Your insights here are so valued.  By me, at least.  When you say a chaotic web of poorly acknowledged emotions, are you referring to the fact that it results in too many egos clashing here?  That folks who fight consistently do so because they have a need to do so, to protect themselves from an underlying fear from many years ago?

Or are you speaking of something else?

 

 

Thanks Manitou but there's no easy way for me to answer those questions. In that post I'm speaking very broadly whereas you have given some specific examples of how these unacknowledged emotions might play out. And you've even gone into some analysis of possible causal factors, which may or may not be relevant. I rather not go there as it's something for us all to individually come to terms with (or not come to terms with) in our own unique ways.  

 

From my experience, for such exploration to be productive it needs be done with empathy within an atmosphere of profound compassion, either one on one or within small groups of people with similar psyches.  Any desire I have to try and force this type of work onto people is more indicative of my own unacknowledged emotions, and when I do feel this need, it's within myself I look first.  That's what I do with all my interactions here. I don't post much because I get plenty stirred up within myself to work through from what may seem from the outside to be a low level of interaction.  Believe me, it is not! Of special importance is the feedback I feel outside and beyond the words. In that way Dao Bums has helped me enormously in gaining deeper insight into myself and into our human psyche in general......is helping me still.  If one avails themself to it, there's a stream of healing magic at work here. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Yueya

[dwai]

55 minutes ago, Yueya said:

From my experience, for such exploration to be productive it needs be done with empathy within an atmosphere of profound compassion, either one on one or within small groups of people with similar psyches.  Any desire I have to try and force this type of work onto people is more indicative of my own unacknowledged emotions, and when I do feel this need, it's within myself I look first.  That's what I do with all my interactions here.

I think it will help to just share without reacting with anger or irritation.

 

When we are “triggered”, what degree of self-introspection do we undergo? Why should some individual’s opinions even trigger us at all? I’m not suggesting that I’m immune to this — but I find it a worthwhile endeavor to pursue.  
 

I don’t believe in anonymity of internet handles. I know several of the folks here on a first-name basis. I think it helps change the nature of discourse when we know each other a little better, at a personal level  

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

it is an inside story, as it would be for you too if you listened to the song.  

 

Well I did hear, "take me back to Lukenback Texas" 

[manitou]

I think the next 45 came down already.  Actually, I seem to recall it was a 78!  If you heard the Lukenback Texas song it wasn't the right one.  Surely you remember 'But Where Is Your Heart?'.  I must break this spell, this cloud that I'm under.  You're here with me now, but where is yer hart?

[steve]

1 hour ago, Yueya said:

 

Thanks Manitou but there's no easy way for me to answer those questions. In that post I'm speaking very broadly whereas you have given some specific examples of how these unacknowledged emotions might play out. And you've even gone into some analysis of possible causal factors, which may or may not be relevant. I rather not go there as it's something for us all to individually come to terms with (or not come to terms with) in our own unique ways.  

 

From my experience, for such exploration to be productive it needs be done with empathy within an atmosphere of profound compassion, either one on one or within small groups of people with similar psyches.  Any desire I have to try and force this type of work onto people is more indicative of my own unacknowledged emotions, and when I do feel this need, it's within myself I look first.  That's what I do with all my interactions here. I don't post much because I get plenty stirred up within myself to work through from what may seem from the outside to be a low level of interaction.  Believe me, it is not! Of special importance is the feedback I feel outside and beyond the words. In that way Dao Bums has helped me enormously in gaining deeper insight into myself and into our human psyche in general......is helping me still.  If one avails themself to it, there's a stream of healing magic at work here. 

 

 

 

I really appreciate your sincerity and devotion.

[Geof Nanto]

2 hours ago, steve said:

 

I really appreciate your sincerity and devotion.

 

Any real wisdom I have has been shown me by Spirit, starting with an extreme vision quest I was guided to undertake during a downward spiral of my life back in 1982; a quest which took me as near to death as it’s possible to go and still survive. By divine grace I got my vision but I also caused massive damage to myself. After almost 40 years, plenty of qi work, many teachings and much life experience, I’m still coming to terms with the implications of that quest. It was both profoundly spiritually helpful and profoundly physically harmful. My sincerity and devotion is because my life depends on this work. 

 

Most people are spared such a path but I take comfort in the words of those who aren’t. From William Blake, The Four Zoas:

 

What is the price of Experience? do men buy it for a song
Or wisdom for a dance in the street? No it is bought with the price
Of all that a man hath, his house his wife his children.
 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Yueya

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

“For My Ally Is The Force, And A Powerful Ally It Is.” - Yoda

 

I have read, that with true self mastery of our internal world, comes a mastery of the external world. As both internal and external are the same, the elements, now subdued, can be directed. I'm not sure if this is true or not however its interesting to note. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by idiot_stimpy

[dwai]

This video talk is excellent to outline two different ways of looking at the "delusion" and "enlightenment" relationship --

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=246428883468739

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, dwai said:

This video talk is excellent to outline two different ways of looking at the "delusion" and "enlightenment" relationship --

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=246428883468739

 

Btw, some of us don't use face book, thus a  youtube version should reach more folks.

[Limahong]

On 12/1/2020 at 10:56 AM, Yueya said:

What is the price of Experience? do men buy it for a song
Or wisdom for a dance in the street? No it is bought with the price
Of all that a man hath, his house his wife his children.

 

Hi Yueya,

 

Your Experience is priceless as reflected thus...

On 12/1/2020 at 8:33 AM, steve said:

I really appreciate your sincerity and devotion.

 

On 12/1/2020 at 10:56 AM, Yueya said:

After almost 40 years, plenty of qi work, many teachings and much life experience, I’m still coming to terms with the implications of that quest. It was both profoundly spiritually helpful and profoundly physically harmful. My sincerity and devotion is because my life depends on this work. 

 

Hi steve,

 

May I echo you re my appreciation of Yueya's contributions at TDB...?

I really appreciate your sincerity and devotion.

 

Let us thank Yueya for his crescent moon... re living forward...

 

月牙

 

 

 

 

- Anand

 

[Limahong]

On 12/1/2020 at 4:20 AM, manitou said:

Limmers - When we kiss, do you close your eyes, pretending that I'm someone else?

 

Of course not Honey... listen closely...

 

 

 

- Limmers

 

[manitou]

8 hours ago, dwai said:

This video talk is excellent to outline two different ways of looking at the "delusion" and "enlightenment" relationship --

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=246428883468739

 

 

An excellent talk!  And hearing someone describe it in terms of doing and being was a nice way to frame it.  I think that once the realization is made, then it becomes a lifelong lesson in how to wear it and what to do with it.

[Apech]

21 hours ago, dwai said:

This video talk is excellent to outline two different ways of looking at the "delusion" and "enlightenment" relationship --

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=246428883468739

 

Thanks,

 

The more I listen to talks like this I realise that the similarity of dharmic traditions - even though they would doubtless dispute what exists/what doesn't exist and so on - the whole analysis or approach of this and buddhism say, is very much along the same lines.  I recently was reading 'Being Different' by https://beingdifferentbook.com/ by Mahlotra and it's easy to see how 'Western Universalism' has interfered with our understanding.

 

And actually I think this discussion illustrates one way in which that has happened in that there may be a dispute between saying the realisation of 'Self' is complete and the idea that there is a Great Work to be done.  How can something be big and small at the same time, how can there be more when it is complete, how can it be both light and dark ... and so on.  Western thought can block this always either/or and not both/and if you see what I mean.

 

 

[Apech]

On 12/1/2020 at 2:56 AM, Yueya said:

 

Any real wisdom I have has been shown me by Spirit, starting with an extreme vision quest I was guided to undertake during a downward spiral of my life back in 1982; a quest which took me as near to death as it’s possible to go and still survive. By divine grace I got my vision but I also caused massive damage to myself. After almost 40 years, plenty of qi work, many teachings and much life experience, I’m still coming to terms with the implications of that quest. It was both profoundly spiritually helpful and profoundly physically harmful. My sincerity and devotion is because my life depends on this work. 

 

Most people are spared such a path but I take comfort in the words of those who aren’t. From William Blake, The Four Zoas:

 

What is the price of Experience? do men buy it for a song
Or wisdom for a dance in the street? No it is bought with the price
Of all that a man hath, his house his wife his children.
 

 

I am now so old I think of the 1980's as modern and as the recent past

 

When I think how long I have been practicing - I started when I was 16 - and how long it took me to pass certain barriers and problems I am in awe at the immensity of the path - and yet for some reason I proceed with a buoyant certainty and optimism each day!  Oh yes life can bring me down and depress me, but never mysticism.  Part of it is, I think that I never grew into an adult (despite bringing up a family) which is something I am thankful for.  The price is huge, perhaps everything - but I offer it gladly, knowing there is no alternative.

 

Thank you @Yueya for adding so much depth to this conversation.

 

 

 

 

[dwai]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

Thanks,

 

The more I listen to talks like this I realise that the similarity of dharmic traditions - even though they would doubtless dispute what exists/what doesn't exist and so on - the whole analysis or approach of this and buddhism say, is very much along the same lines.  I recently was reading 'Being Different' by https://beingdifferentbook.com/ by Mahlotra and it's easy to see how 'Western Universalism' has interfered with our understanding.

Yes, Rajiv has some good ideas in that book. 

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

And actually I think this discussion illustrates one way in which that has happened in that there may be a dispute between saying the realisation of 'Self' is complete and the idea that there is a Great Work to be done.  How can something be big and small at the same time, how can there be more when it is complete, how can it be both light and dark ... and so on.  Western thought can block this always either/or and not both/and if you see what I mean.

What a great paradox, that seemingly an artificial limitation that veils our true nature via delusion, leads us down what seems like many years of spiritual pursuit, only for it to be realized that there was no delusion at all because that which we were seeking has already and always been "us". 

[old3bob]

a sprout is not a tree, thus it takes work in a sense for the sprout to mature even though it already has everything needed as a seed to be a tree.

 

[Limahong]

On 12/1/2020 at 5:21 AM, Yueya said:

From reading these Dao Bums discussions the sincerity of the majority of members is apparent. And it’s obvious a number of people here have had real spiritual experiences. There are strong strands of profound insight on display along with plenty of knowledge of a wide selection of spiritual teachings. That’s why I like the place. However it’s also obvious from the way these discussions are shaped and play out that in most all cases, including my own, these insights sit within a chaotic web of poorly acknowledged emotions. Hence I have no trouble concluding that a lot more needs to be done by us all, and even more so by those who are apparently too blinded by their own light to see their own darkness.

 

On 12/1/2020 at 10:56 AM, Yueya said:

After almost 40 years, plenty of qi work, many teachings and much life experience, I’m still coming to terms with the implications of that quest. It was both profoundly spiritually helpful and profoundly physically harmful. My sincerity and devotion is because my life depends on this work. 

 

 

Hi Yueya,

 

At last ~ I know where you are coming from.

 

Thank you.

 

- Anand

 

[silent thunder]

Does a flower strive to unfold?

Does a fern strain to unfurl?

 

Is effort or training required?

 

We each unfold according to our nature.

We are never not our nature, no matter what we do, or do not...

 

That which is... is.

 

There is this... This is it.  And you and I are This.

[old3bob]

7 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Does a flower strive to unfold?

Does a fern strain to unfurl?

 

Is effort or training required?

 

We each unfold according to our nature.

We are never not our nature, no matter what we do, or do not...

 

That which is... is.

 

There is this... This is it.  And you and I are This.

 

I'd say genetically driven unfolding is automatic to a point, after that evolution (or devolution) is not automatic for a soul/matrix but a possibility either way. 

 

While the Self it-Self does not evolve, devolve or fold or unfold. (thus does not change)

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by old3bob