Sinai

Ultimate Inner Alchemy

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Hello all

Dear friends i wanted to tell anyone who is practiced Tao and its path to immortality to share their knowledge in this topic so we can find its techniques much faster ... these formulas are not written in English books nor in public Chinese books so please if you have any knowledge or information please share
OK as you may know in Taoist astrology we begin the cultivation of our Original Energy  and in 9th stage we return to our original source Wu Chi ( The nothingness, Ultimate Stillness or The Primordial Tao ) the last 2 stages are unknown for many and only was available to those who were lucky enough to receive them Orally from live teachers i opened this topic for everyone including those who are familiar with Chinese and other ancient languages used in Taoism ... Please Feel free to express your opinions and share your materials which help people in realization of Wu Chi

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Posted (edited)

There are no missing secrets - it is all in the Basics - which are  by far the most important foundational aspects.

 

There are no books regarding what you are asking and no 'answers' that might be given by anyone anywhere ever.

 

Nothing Orally or written would provide what you are asking - it has nothing to do with a "doing" that is done from an "answer" from outside or oneself. (obviously one could argue that nothing is outside of one's Self in absolute reality but that said - "the answer" will not be found in words from another whether written or spoken or transmitted)

 

It is a revealing within - not an "aha" moment - not an epiphany - not a question one formulates to which there is an answer.

 

At the stages you are speaking of it is never ending patience, continuous comprehension and ever expanding compassion.

These are based in the foundations of your seeking. The loss of beginners mind is always at hand as are the sirens of the siddhis.

 

If you are dragging anchors they will set at some point - however short their scope at some point they will find surface - you will create the surface and become stationary in your orbit - and you will be convinced otherwise.

 

  One of the hardest things to see are the momentums that hold you even when the holdings have fallen away. Constant massive incredible change - seeming unending falling away - exquisite subtle body refinements / expansions. And holding as energies reach levels of complete oblivion - when the bodies reach epic light.

 

In this the planet stands with you - great trees - beings of great golden light - "answers' are not needed - this by this time has been known for a long "time".

Edited by Spotless
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This is the Return to the Nothingness

 

and the Crushing the Nothingness.

 

These techniques exist.

 

But I see nobody is prepared.

 

It takes years for a normal person to get to.

 

Today, people are not even normal. They are "impaired".

 

So they need to study and practice to get to "normal" first.

 

Then do the 15+ yrs training to get to these techniques.

 

If you got to that - you are not asking here what to do next.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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Posted (edited)

Thanks everyone for your posts

I wanted to mention to 2 formulas of inner alchemy for returning to Wu Chi according to Master Chia's UHT System

i will share them here with respects to UHT :

https://www.universal-tao.com/products/congress_of_heaven_and_earth.html

https://www.universal-tao.com/products/reunion_of_heaven_and_man.html

Congress of Heaven and Earth

Heaven and Earth inner alchemy method by Taoist Master Mantak Chia formulasThis practice integrates the Early Heaven or formless Self with the Later Heaven (Earth) physical Self. The Self here identifies itself here with two dimensions that co-exist and co-create: the “formless form” of our being and the “substantial form” of our becoming. These two polar dimensions of our greater Self engage in cosmic sex. They couple in order to re-open the portal to their Original state, or “Pre-Self”. This pre-state or Primordial Heaven is called hundun, the primal chaos-unity that preceded the “big bang” of the cosmic egg cracking open.

The Three Originals (san yuan) of Heaven, Earth, and Humanity are gathered in the three body cauldrons as original Ching (Jing), original Chi, and original Shen. This three-tone harmonic chord is resonated with the fundamental or original tone of time and space. Consciousness then stabilizes in the axial center where our true multi-dimensional nature can now be embodied. This is symbolized by a tonal double vortex spinning faster than the speed of light within the void of space. Into this is fused our inner sage’s immortal presence, the quintessence of humanity meditating in the center of a cosmic torus (spiritual black hole). We must enter this portal to complete our journey of Return to the Origin.

This formula is difficult to describe in words. It involves the incarnation of a male and a female entity within the body of the practioner. These two entities have sexual intercourse within the body. It involves the mixing of the Yin and Yang powers on and about the crown of the head, being totally open to receive energy from above, and the regrowth of the pineal gland to its fullest use. When the pineal gland has developed to its fullest potential, it will serve as a compass to tell us in which direction our aspirations can be found. Taoist Esotericism is a method of mastering the spirit, as described in Taoist Alchemy Without the body, the Tao cannot be attained, but with the body, truth can never be realized.

This Formula consists of: Mingling (uniting) the body, soul and spirit with the universe, fully developing the positive to eradicate the negative completely, and returning the spirit to nothingness.

 

Reunion of Heaven and Man

Union of Human and Tao, Heaven and Man internal alchemy by Taoist master Mantak ChiaThis stage is the integration of the eight previous levels of consciousness into the experience of living simultaneously in the present moment in all dimensions, from physical linear time to spirit’s eternal time. This state cannot be fully known or defined conceptually for others. Perhaps it might be conceptualized as the experience of living fully in the Wu Chi, the Supreme Unknown.

This is the true achievement of the authentic or Immortal Self, a permanent state of grace known as Wu Wei, effortless action, or spontaneous action without acting. Creation (of the manifest) and Return to Formless Origin seamlessly complete each other. Attainment of this ninth level is spontaneous, and happens when the inner will of our Immortal sage within has reached complete alignment with the Tao. It may occur only by direct transmission from the Tao to the mature and receptive adept.

We compare the body to a ship, and the soul to the engine and propeller of a ship. This ship carries a very precious and very large diamond which it is assigned to transport to a very distant shore. If your ship is damaged (a sick and ill body), no matter how good the engine is, you are not going to get very far and may even sink. Thus, we advise against spiritual training unless all of the channels in the body have been properly opened, and have been made ready to receive the 10,000 or 100,000 volts of super power which will pour down into them. The Taoist approach, which has been passed down to us for over five thousand years, consists of many thousands of methods. The formulae and practices we describe in these books are based on such secret knowledge and the author’s own experience during over forty years of study and of successively teaching thousands of students.

Main Goal of Taoist Practitioners: This level—overcoming reincarnation and the fear of death through Enlightenment. Higher Level—the Immortal Spirit and Life after death. Highest Level—the Immortal Spirit in an Immortal Body. This body functions like a mobile home to the spirit and soul as it moves through the subtle planes, allowing greater power of manifestation.

 

as you saw these formulas still not written anywhere at least in English but in Daozang 道藏 which contains 5000 volumes but unfortunately i am not good in Chinese and trying to master it

 

Dear vonkrankenhaus you mentioned about two practices :

Return to the Nothingness

and the Crushing the Nothingness

could you please explain these two or share its resources for learning and practicing ? I would really appreciate it

 

Edited by Sinai
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18 minutes ago, Sinai said:

author’s own experience during over forty years of study and of successively teaching thousands of students.

lol

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Posted (edited)

what make you say that ?!!:D

Edited by Sinai

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1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

A Chia thread. 

This can get ugly! 

 

Shields up. 😁 

:unsure::D

well he is a good teacher but of course i agree that nothing will be comparable to original Taoists scriptures and books but it is better to start from a point, I personally received this advice from a master that, in practices, despite of master, it isn't the art that is powerful, it is the practitioner. While the Techniques and Training Methods are extremely important, the biggest factor is who is doing the art and how they are doing it. The arts are important, but your intent, willpower, imagination, and what you feel are much more important. I know what you mean Mr Doyle and dear VonKrankenhaus and others, but here my point is the practices of Congress of Heaven and Earth and Reunion of Heaven and Man  or anything beyond that i dont know...if you may please share your opinion

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3 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

This is the Return to the Nothingness

 

and the Crushing the Nothingness.

 

These techniques exist.

 

But I see nobody is prepared.

 

It takes years for a normal person to get to.

 

Today, people are not even normal. They are "impaired".

 

So they need to study and practice to get to "normal" first.

 

Then do the 15+ yrs training to get to these techniques.

 

If you got to that - you are not asking here what to do next.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Dear VonKrankenhaus could you please describe those two techniques : Return to the Nothingness and the Crushing the Nothingness which you mentioned ? i am eager to know about them cause i wasn't aware of those ... are they the same with my desired techniques ? do just names changed ?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sinai said:

well he is a good teacher

He is a very controversial teacher you mean. There have been people in the past claiming to have been damaged by his techniques. You can find related posts by the search function. If the stories of people having been damaged by his system are true then his system must not be good and/or his teaching method is problematic. I do not have any first hand experience with his system, these are my observations as a neutral party.

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6 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

A Chia thread. 

This can get ugly!

 

I will never forget my meeting with Chia, it was hillarious.

He brought in a family of russian speaking occultists / witchers,

they made him a mandala or some drawing, to increase his business profits and amount of students. Like a success bringing.

That mandala itself was expensive. Chia looked very troubled / desperate.

That happened on my eyes.

 

Living in tao garden you could know that he is constantly scandaling with everyone who takes a pie of his system profits,

Some people got rich teaching his system and bringing many dozens of students to tao garden but making them stay on their own houses, and he made a big ruckus of all this.

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3 hours ago, Zork said:

There have been people in the past claiming to have been damaged by his techniques

right. if you practice his system without any preparations your body can not hold the energy ... i myself had this experience also in beginning of Fusion of 5 elements practice i test it with the first Pakua practice and suddenly i felt an enormous energy rising up to my teeth and suddenly my chin and teeth feeled numb... this is because i wasn't ready for this if you are ready like any system you are all set ... I saw terrible things happened for people doing Kryia Yoga without preparation and without master ... cautious must be taken seriously , the rules are the same

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6 hours ago, Sinai said:

if you may please share your opinion

It is good to read that the attainment of this level comes spontaneously to the practitioner who has practiced properly. 

Few will disagree with that. 

 

And the notion that the practitioner is a factor in the equation, not only the method: Few will disagree with that. 

 

When it comes to willpower and imagination, there is more debate. 

In some traditions, this is important. In others, it is actively discouraged. 

I am biased, coming from the second camp. 

 

I am not up to date on the Chia publications, but if you compare with other material, his earlier work would be classified as preparatory exercises, not even coming to laying the Foundations as I understand Wang Mu or as I understand my own non-daoist non-neidan tradition. 

 

But these are the last levels? 

In that case I am sure he has come to the core of the subject. 

 

Hard to tell by the description, even harder when you are biased by a tradition that uses a different terminology. 

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If there is someone who knows "last levels" or will ever reach high levels in taoist practice, or even become an immortal, that won't be Mantak Chia, for sure :)

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1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

It is good to read that the attainment of this level comes spontaneously to the practitioner who has practiced properly. 

Few will disagree with that. 

 

And the notion that the practitioner is a factor in the equation, not only the method: Few will disagree with that. 

 

When it comes to willpower and imagination, there is more debate. 

In some traditions, this is important. In others, it is actively discouraged. 

I am biased, coming from the second camp. 

 

I agree with you dear friend also in some schools say that : "It is not the tool, it is who using that is important.". many masters including myself even with people who i know from different arts that talk the talk but don't walk the walk. The arts are important, but your intent, willpower, imagination, and what you feel are much more important. and again i agree with you
i am not only in master Chia's side but i studied many other resources from different authors and different publications , those two methods which i mentioned are not only in UHT system take a look here :
https://www.goldenelixir.com/press/occ_03_jindan_history.html

and i have enough papers from these documents :
https://www.goldenelixir.com/press/_sub_taoism.html

1- Taoist Internal Alchemy : An Anthology of Neidan Texts

2 - Cultivating the Tao : Taoism and Internal Alchemy

3 - The Seal of the Unity of the Three : A Study and Translation of the Cantong qi, the Source of the Taoist Way of the Golden Elixir

4 - The Book of the Nine Elixirs : An Early Chinese Alchemical Text

and and some other documents and 2019 stuff , Prof Jerry Alan Johnson's bookstore is fascinating and similars with master's Chia in some topics but i know that still we have a long way to go
does anyone here is familiar with Chinese language ? this way we can progress faster

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2 hours ago, GSmaster said:

If there is someone who knows "last levels" or will ever reach high levels in taoist practice, or even become an immortal, that won't be Mantak Chia, for sure :)

 

well a green light on what i have learned :

 

3 hours ago, Sinai said:

right. if you practice his system without any preparations your body can not hold the energy ... i myself had this experience also in beginning of Fusion of 5 elements practice i test it with the first Pakua practice and suddenly i felt an enormous energy rising up to my teeth and suddenly my chin and teeth feeled numb... this is because i wasn't ready for this if you are ready like any system you are all set ... I saw terrible things happened for people doing Kryia Yoga without preparation and without master ... cautious must be taken seriously , the rules are the same

 

And my response :rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Sinai said:

And my response :rolleyes:

 

So why you werent ready? What was not ready? How did you correct this?

 

---

I have tried his iron shirt qigong exercises, many many years ago, all I got were headaches from increased pressure.

I have not seen anyone who achieved good results with his system. Yet, it is 40 years old system, where are the students?

Like his best iron shirt qigong instructor with 15 years of practice, was proud of breaking a plate, without breaking fist bones, though the fist was heavily damaged and bleeding.

 

Later, I learned that all internet / youtube iron shirt qigong demonstrations, with breaking stones, bending things by neck, bending swords by eyesockets, standing on balloons, and e.t.c are a scam. Anybody can do this, without any "qigong training".

Edited by GSmaster

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Sinai said:

i am eager to know about them cause i wasn't aware of those ... are they the same with my desired techniques ? do just names changed ?

 

If you mean the "Reunion of Heaven and Man" stuff you posted:

Those aren't techniques.

 

Those are like "filler", or "ad copy" text, not cultivation. Just a kind of "marketing". "Fluff".

 

People who bought old texts were not taught these techniques.

 

Some are sincere and honest about this, and others are not so much honest.

 

These techniques exist. 

 

First step to finding them is being able to recognize them.

 

If you trained up to that point where you need these, then consult who taught you.

 

If it was these people with books, or online videos, then you are not actually being taught cultivation.

 

Seek a traditional school. Start with traditional Gongfu school. If real, that will put you in contact with better and real learning to go forward.

 

Without that - look like everyone is just "guessing" what to do with no teacher in sight.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited by vonkrankenhaus
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5 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

If you mean the "Reunion of Heaven and Man" stuff you posted:

Those aren't techniques.

 

Those are like "filler", or "ad copy" text, not cultivation. Just a kind of "marketing". "Fluff".

 

People who bought old texts were not taught these techniques.

 

Some are sincere and honest about this, and others are not so much honest.

 

These techniques exist. 

 

First step to finding them is being able to recognize them.

 

If you trained up to that point where you need these, then consult who taught you.

 

If it was these people with books, or online videos, then you are not actually being taught cultivation.

 

Seek a traditional school. Start with traditional Gongfu school. If real, that will put you in contact with better and real learning to go forward.

 

Without that - look like everyone is just "guessing" what to do with no teacher in sight.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

The key word is marketing, trying to resell the same system over and over again.

I was fascinated by their idea to take one book, spread into three parts and sell 3 books.

 

Btw, VonKrankenhaus do you have some list of best translated (not new age) neigong / neidan texts?

Something that could be ordered from amazon.

 

I have

wang mu - Foundations of internal alchemy

zen teaching of bodhidharma, red pine press (best book ever, can recommend)

wang jie - mirror for the compounding medicine

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4 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

If you mean the "Reunion of Heaven and Man" stuff you posted:

Those aren't techniques.

 

Those are like "filler", or "ad copy" text, not cultivation. Just a kind of "marketing". "Fluff".

 

People who bought old texts were not taught these techniques.

 

Some are sincere and honest about this, and others are not so much honest.

 

These techniques exist. 

 

I really appreciate for your information and help
my mean was Return to the Nothingness and the Crushing the Nothingness ... i am not aware of these 2 techniques and there is nobody here in my country who know about Taoism except 1 person who i met with him , he saw Mantak Chia only and told me about his experience , but about what you saying dear VonKrankenhaus i have no teacher neither there is anybody around me but i felt the progress , could you please guide me more ... ?

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5 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

The key word is marketing, trying to resell the same system over and over again.

I was fascinated by their idea to take one book, spread into three parts and sell 3 books.

 

Btw, VonKrankenhaus do you have some list of best translated (not new age) neigong / neidan texts?

Something that could be ordered from amazon.

 

I have

wang mu - Foundations of internal alchemy

zen teaching of bodhidharma, red pine press (best book ever, can recommend)

wang jie - mirror for the compounding medicine

 

Here is some books for you

1 - Decoding the Dao: Nine Lessons in Daoist Meditation , Book by Thomas Bisio ( recommended )

2 - Golden Elixir Free documents and

3 -  Foundations of Internal Alchemy : The Taoist Practice of Neidan-Golden Elixir Press

4 - Encyclopedia of Taoism ( 2 Volumes set ) golden elixir

these are good for start

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23 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

So why you werent ready? What was not ready? How did you correct this?

 

---

I have tried his iron shirt qigong exercises, many many years ago, all I got were headaches from increased pressure.

I have not seen anyone who achieved good results with his system. Yet, it is 40 years old system, where are the students?

Like his best iron shirt qigong instructor with 15 years of practice, was proud of breaking a plate, with only damaging his fist, bleeding and not breaking fist bones.

 

Later, I learned that all internet / youtube iron shirt qigong demonstrations, with breaking stones, bending things by neck and e.t.c are a scam. Anybody can do this, without any "qigong training".

 

Really it is ?!! well i wasn't prepared because i had not practiced Microcosmic orbit and Macrocosmic orbit yet , i had no Tao experience before and it was my first time when i met them , but despite of his system if you want to make progress in Tao or Chi kung one must cultivate his Qi after that those practices are easy to achieve ... still i am not practicing Iron shirt so seriously , thanks for your information and this is good news for me ... if you really like to know more about Qi and Cultivation read 道藏 first but you must learn Chinese to make use of these texts

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14 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

This is the Return to the Nothingness

 

and the Crushing the Nothingness.

 

These techniques exist.

 

But I see nobody is prepared.

 

It takes years for a normal person to get to.

 

Today, people are not even normal. They are "impaired".

 

So they need to study and practice to get to "normal" first.

 

Then do the 15+ yrs training to get to these techniques.

 

If you got to that - you are not asking here what to do next.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

repair the shitty car 

 

build a new car from scratch 

 

 

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1 minute ago, GSmaster said:

do you have some list of best translated (not new age) neigong / neidan texts?

 

I had not seen any books about this until just recent 5 years or so.

 

Before that I had some Chinese texts and my notes from 1970s to now.

 

First 10 years was all personal instruction from being a kid, then I went to the world to look.

 

I am amazed by the books that have been published. 

 

Best route for people still is traditional training from the basics. Then you are at least starting in the ballpark.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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Title Index to Daoist Collections 1st Edition by Louis Komjathy

along with : Index of Zhonghua Daozang (中華道藏書目總錄) by Fabrizio Pregadio

 

are index and references of classic Chinese Taoist texts ... you will find your answer here GSmaster these are not compiled by author but index of exist references

 

i hope you will find what you seek ....

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