Lazgrane

Strengthening the Blood

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2 hours ago, Song of the Dao said:

Can you define the word "toxin"?

 

A substance that has proven negative effect on a health and human internal organs.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

Bless her, she'll still try on occasion, because she loves many foods with these in them and interestingly we have found that when her stress levels are low, her tolerance increases, sometimes dramatically.

 

The thing is, I can eat bread / cheese and things, but I am not blind or senseless enough to not know about long lasting consequences of such food.

Just because someone is less or more sensitive, does not change the fact, that it plays its role on human health and wellbeing.

If you drink beer, and don't die after it, it does not mean beer does no harm to the body.

The thing with toxins is that they can accumulate, and you never know when they will accumulate enough to cause serious trouble.

Edited by GSmaster
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In terms of "toxicity", dosage has to be taken into account.

Even water, which is healthy for the body, can be deadly if you have enough of it in a certain amount of time.

 

Sugar is the current enemy of the diet industry. But in smaller doses, it benefits the body.

Every person is different. For some, they may not even benefit from sugar and have bad effects from taking any. For others, they may need it. For the person who needs it, if they take the right amount, it's not toxic but is good for them. Same with any other thing that people normally ingest.

All of this is in the realm of foods, which are generally "non-toxic"...people can eat them every day and live a relatively long healthy life. But there are substances out there where if you take a couple of grams of it, it's life threatening...now that's real toxicity.

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5 hours ago, GSmaster said:

A substance that has proven negative effect on a health and human internal organs.

 

So oxygen is toxic. And water.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Song of the Dao said:

So oxygen is toxic. And water.

 

Sounds to me like both have positive effects on human health and internal organs.

They are essential for life

Edited by GSmaster

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5 hours ago, Aetherous said:

Even water, which is healthy for the body, can be deadly if you have enough of it in a certain amount of time.

 

Toxins are toxic in any amounts, i.e you can drink a shot of alcohol, it is still toxic. The only quantity matters is how fast you will get to the disease, depending on each individual body and ability to detox.

 

It is not like there is or ever will be a healthy dosage of alcohol, nor there is a healthy dosage of white sugar, nor there is a healthy dosage of bread.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Aetherous said:

people can eat them every day and live a relatively long healthy life

 

Yes, but you never know when you get heart attack, or cancer, or celiac disease, or tumors, or brain stroke, or any other disease which is caused by eating bread / sugar / milk. 

You could still live a hundred of years of life, just being sick every once in a while.

Its like a roullette.

 

After I said all this, I am going to make some toasted bread with cheddar cheese, garlic, onion, herbs, sea salt.

And enjoy it.

Edited by GSmaster

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12 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

Toxins are toxic in any amounts, i.e you can drink a shot of alcohol, it is still toxic. The only quantity matters is how fast you will get to the disease, depending on each individual body and ability to detox.

 

It is not like there is or ever will be a healthy dosage of alcohol, nor there is a healthy dosage of white sugar, nor there is a healthy dosage of bread.

 

OK, so I can see where you are going. Maybe you should say: Things that have to go through Phase 1 and Phase II liver detoxification are toxic. That would make more sense. But milk and sugar do not go through that detox pathway. Alcohol does, however, so I would say alcohol is toxic and milk and sugar are is not. Your definition is not very specific. But even alcohol can be used a medicine, so what does toxic even mean?

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32 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

Toxins are toxic in any amounts

 

This is kind of semantics, but what you're saying is essentially untrue. Something is only "toxic" when it's an amount that causes harm...if it's not causing harm, then how can it be called "toxic"? Let's say if someone has 5 drops of vodka - absolutely nothing bad is going to happen to them.

 

32 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

It is not like there is or ever will be a healthy dosage of alcohol, nor there is a healthy dosage of white sugar, nor there is a healthy dosage of bread.

 

Yes, there are healthy dosages of all of those things. I mean, unless a person has celiac disease and can't have typical bread...then they probably can't handle any sort of dose.

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37 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

Yes, but you never know when you get heart attack, or cancer, or celiac disease, or tumors, or brain stroke, or any other disease which is caused by eating bread / sugar / milk. 

You could still live a hundred of years of life, just being sick every once in a while.

Its like a roullette.

 

You could avoid all of those food items for your entire life, and still get those diseases. And probably live a shorter and less healthy life due to avoiding them.

 

37 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

After I said all this, I am going to make some toasted bread with cheddar cheese, garlic, onion, herbs, sea salt.

And enjoy it.

 

Hell yeah.

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If you disagree, with anything I say, just move on.

I have calculated this thread to 12 pages of discussion and it won't give any results beyond wasting my time on 2 people who have zero potential in cultivation. 

 

I am always right. You don't like the right answers, go with the wrong ones, atleast they are hard earned and not given for free.

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7 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

If you disagree, with anything I say, just move on.

I have calculated this thread to 12 pages of discussion and it won't give any results beyond wasting my time on 2 people who have zero potential in cultivation. 

 

I am always right. You don't like the right answers, go with the wrong ones, atleast they are hard earned and not given for free.

 

If you're saying things that are plainly not true, others are free to point it out. Welcome to the concept of a discussion forum. If you want a place where you can tell others false things and have it be unquestioned, feel free to make your own forum and delude the people who would go there.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, GSmaster said:

If you disagree, with anything I say, just move on.

I have calculated this thread to 12 pages of discussion and it won't give any results beyond wasting my time on 2 people who have zero potential in cultivation. 

 

I am always right. You don't like the right answers, go with the wrong ones, atleast they are hard earned and not given for free.

 

Yes, you are always right. I will move on.

 

Funny, edited to add this article I saw pop up in my feeds this morning:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/todays-biggest-threat-the-polarized-mind/

Edited by Song of the Dao
Addded link.
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16 hours ago, Song of the Dao said:

 

Fascinating. X can be good, but just not too much X.

 

Seem to be the general rule with enough exceptions to confirm it right?

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On 4/14/2019 at 3:15 PM, freeform said:

Chlorella and spirulina are both excellent. They nourish both kidney Yin and blood (ideal for cultivators)... along with other very useful properties.

 

 

 

sorry if what I'm going to ask is off topic, but is there a substantial difference between blood and Kidney Yin ? the basis of all yin formulas is Shu Di Huang a blood tonic. So I'm guessing a kidney yin formula such as Liu Wei di Huang wan or Zuo Gui Wan would also serve as a blood tonic, or am I wrong about this?

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2 hours ago, marcobjj said:

is there a substantial difference between blood and Kidney Yin ?

 

I’m not really sure to be honest. I'm really not that well versed in medicine.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2019 at 1:03 AM, marcobjj said:

sorry if what I'm going to ask is off topic, but is there a substantial difference between blood and Kidney Yin ? the basis of all yin formulas is Shu Di Huang a blood tonic. So I'm guessing a kidney yin formula such as Liu Wei di Huang wan or Zuo Gui Wan would also serve as a blood tonic, or am I wrong about this?


The TCM answer is that shudihuang nourishes both blood and yin, as two separate actions.

 

Some say that "kidney yin" is basically just the blood of the kidney (similar with almost any other organ's "yin")...so from that perspective, some yin tonics are really just blood tonics which are specific to different organs. Other yin tonics, however, nourish the jinye (body fluids).

Others would disagree, and differentiate between blood and yin.

 

Another perspective: think of the generation cycle of the five elements. Water generates wood. If liver blood is deficient, you could nourish the kidney, its mother. It can be that simple.

 

One of the ways which Chinese Medicine thinks blood is created (besides through digestion) is through the marrow, which corresponds to the kidney...so nourishing kidney yin will generate blood that way, by increasing marrow. As a good rule of thumb, they say that when you nourish yin, you should also tonify yang at the same time, and vice versa. Liu wei dihuang wan was made for pediatrics, who already have a lot of yang, by taking the yang tonifying ingredients out of shen qi wan. For adults, it might not be the best choice (and for adults who have problems with the yang tonics, they probably need a different formula first, to clear their internal heat). Creation happens through the intermingling of yin and yang...if you just have a pile of yin, how could blood come from that? Generation is an activity, and yin is inert while yang is active, so the kidney yin needs some kidney yang for this to work.

Something I find interesting is how Chen Xiuyuan was pretty strongly opposed to the overuse of shudihuang, because he thought it was too cloying - it causes pathogenic qi to get stuck internally, and causes all of the herbs and foods to not function properly as a result. He says to use it only to safeguard the fetus from miscarriage, with si wu tang for pregnant women. He even thought that cooking shengdihuang was a bad idea, which would make it stagnant and not cooling, taking away its intended effect. So, notice that shen qi wan is a pill, which is not cooked. In its true form it works properly, and can nourish blood.

Also, an older text (Tang ye jing) might have suggested using shudihuang as opposed to shengdihuang for increasing semen, associated in that case with the essence. It's like using a very cloying substance to create a similar sticky substance in the body. But if I remember correctly, that was just for in the case of nocturnal or premature emissions, and would be stopped once those are fixed (there can be other causes for those, so no one reading this should think shudihuang is the solution, it's just a solution if you have a particular diagnosis).

edit: Wanted to add more about dihuang. Most herbal suppliers give a shengdihuang that's black in color. This is entirely due to the processing, where it's heated to dry it. That destroys the effect it's supposed to have, similar to what Chen Xiuyuan said about cooking it. Spring Wind supplies shengdihuang that's dried in a better way, to preserve the yellow color. "Di huang" means "earth yellow" - it's that way for a reason. When you dig it up out of the ground, you can see that it's super yellow. If you make a maceration tincture with the fresh root, it will be a very bright yellow colored tincture. If you're buying various brands of teapills that contain rehmannia/dihuang, first of all they're probably using shudihuang because TCM teaches that it's better for nourishing blood...secondly, if they're using shengdihuang, it's probably the black crap. If you have a practitioner who makes their own pills, and let's say you're wanting some genuine shen qi wan, you should ask them to use Spring Wind's shengdihuang when making the pills.

Edited by Aetherous
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Posted (edited)

There are situations where adults may replenish yin without any complementing hot herbs. Like for example in China it's common for women in their period to take a donkey hide (e jiao)  formulation  to make up for the blood loss. 

 

In my case, I had eczema from the time I was 8 years old, until my 20s. Due to the small but persistent blood loss, after a couple of years I began to suffer from what is today called "ADHD" . I personally find that a combination of 1 part of Shen QI Wan and 2 parts of Zuo Gui Wan works best for me.

 

Also, as soon as I moved to Southern California the eczema disappeared and never returned.That to me proves the TCM theory of damp-stagnation. How can you go from a place of 100% humidity to a place of 10% humidity and your skin becomes moister and more nourished? The absence of dampness in the spleen allows yin to ascend and go the the exterior. There's an MMA fighter named Bas Rutten that claims the same thing, had eczema and asthma as a kid in the Netherlands, gone as soon as he landed in socal.

 

Thanks for the tip on the processing of Rehmannia, I've ordered from several brands in the past including Dragon Herbs, they always look dark. I'll make sure to check out Spring Wind.

Edited by marcobjj
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, marcobjj said:

In my case, I had eczema from the time I was 8 years old, until my 20s. Due to the small but persistent blood loss, after a couple of years I began to suffer from what is today called "ADHD" . I personally find that a combination of 1 part of Shen QI Wan and 2 parts of Zuo Gui Wan works best for me.

 

Also, as soon as I moved to Southern California the eczema disappeared and never returned.That to me proves the TCM theory of damp-stagnation. How can you go from a place of 100% humidity to a place of 10% humidity and your skin becomes moister and more nourished? The absence of dampness in the spleen allows yin to ascend and go the the exterior. There's an MMA fighter named Bas Rutten that claims the same thing, had eczema and asthma as a kid in the Netherlands, gone as soon as he landed in socal.

 

Eczema is caused by different infections, but usually a fungal imbalance, so of course a dryer climate will reduce eczema since it will change the microbiome of the skin.


https://journals.co.za/docserver/fulltext/caci_v31_n3_a7.pdf?expires=1556801916&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=3F3D2AA458F955405FC7919C9A8D435B

Quote

People with atopic eczema are more susceptible to bacterial, viral and fungal infections, some of which play a role in triggering and maintaining the chronic inflammation.

 

Damp-stagnation is just an old way of putting it, but I think now we have better ways to explain what is happening. TCM is ahead of its' time in these observations though.

 

The internal issue is still there however, hence the ADHD. I often find people who have ADHD also struggle with Eczema, and the link to both is too much serotonin and not enough dopamine, norepinepherine, and epinephrine. There is a way to balance this but I'll only explain if you ask.

 

I am guessing you have possibly red hair or freckles, or come from Irish/English decent.

 

(I have some what of the same problem, however, I do not lack in dopamine and the epinephrines but still have high serotonin most times. So no ADHD but Bipolar Disorder.)

 

Edited by Song of the Dao

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Posted (edited)
On 5/2/2019 at 5:56 AM, Song of the Dao said:

 

Eczema is caused by different infections, but usually a fungal imbalance, so of course a dryer climate will reduce eczema since it will change the microbiome of the skin.

 

 

 

 

It's the lack of moisture (yin and jing deficiency) that allow fungus and other toxins to penetrate beneath the epidermis and cause the imbalance and subsequent immune response. Even in a drier climate, the eczema returns if I get too depleted (I've tested this).

 

Quote

The internal issue is still there however, hence the ADHD. I often find people who have ADHD also struggle with Eczema, and the link to both is too much serotonin and not enough dopamine, norepinepherine, and epinephrine. There is a way to balance this but I'll only explain if you ask."


I've taken both SSRI and MAOI years ago. MAOI made me jittery and SSRI made me gain weight and get into a lot of bar fights.

No visible benefits from either drug.  I quit taking Paxil because I was afraid it was going to get me killed.

 

 

I honestly don't like the western approach of breaking things down to the single molecule level. Not only are their effects on the body not well understood, but often times they can become hard to manage (for example people taking thyroid hormone replace sometimes find out that their adrenal glands have become depleted). With neurotransmitters its hard if not impossible to detect what their actual levels are on the brain, and more so to figure out what their proper balance is. If I ever need a hip replacement , liver transplant , something drastic live that I'll def go Western, but for endocrine disorders, digestive and immunological problems I like the TCM approach. Just supplement your body with the materials it needs (Jing/Yin/Yang/Shen/QI/Blood etc tonics) and let it figure out homeostasis on it's own.

 

 

 

 

Edited by marcobjj
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5 hours ago, marcobjj said:

It's the lack of moisture (yin and jing deficiency) that allow fungus and other toxins to penetrate beneath the epidermis and cause the imbalance and subsequent immune response. Even in a drier climate, the eczema returns if I get too depleted (I've tested this).

 

I did not say it is the only change that affected the skin microbiome. You could have genetic changes that mess up your filaggrin or just an overly sensitive immune system.

 

And it is yin deficiency or too much yang? And how do you know? How long have you been studying TCM?

 

5 hours ago, marcobjj said:

I've taken both SSRI and MAOI years ago. MAOI made me jittery and SSRI made me gain weight and get into a lot of bar fights.

No visible benefits from either drug.  I quit taking Paxil because I was afraid it was going to get me killed.

 

I honestly don't like the western approach of breaking things down to the single molecule level. Not only are their effects on the body not well understood, but often times they can become hard to manage (for example people taking thyroid hormone replace sometimes find out that their adrenal glands have become depleted). With neurotransmitters its hard if not impossible to detect what their actual levels are on the brain, and more so to figure out what their proper balance is. If I ever need a hip replacement , liver transplant , something drastic live that I'll def go Western, but for endocrine disorders, digestive and immunological problems I like the TCM approach. Just supplement your body with the materials it needs (Jing/Yin/Yang/Shen/QI/Blood etc tonics) and let it figure out homeostasis on it's own.

 

Science does not care if you like it, neither does the Dao. Like I said, you have too much serotonin, hence your reactions to the SSRI and MAOI. You do not need to see the brain to understand neurotransmitters, you just need to look at behavior and illness. Like when someone trips on acid or ayuasca.

Think of the neurotransmitters on a yin/yang level and it will make sense:

Yang = Glutamate and too many catecholamines (serotonin, dopamine norepinepherine, epinepherine)

Yin = GABA and too few catecholamines.

Internal and external happen at the cellular level as well, like how voltage gated ion channels change concentrations of calcium, sodium and potassium.

All these cycle throughout the day, and year.

Don't you think all the TCM stuff effects the things I listed about? TCM can merge with the western approach and maybe both will benefit. Why choose one over the other? I have used this understanding to relieve myself from all the psychiatric meds.

Check out the benzo properties of Dan Shen, or the MAOI activity of Turmeric.

 

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Posted (edited)

The West it seems excels at diagnosis of symptoms and treatments of symptoms.

The five major life threatening issues my wife and I have collectively experienced, of the five, western doctors had no clue what causes any of them.  Of the three doctors on my case for the last hiccup I experienced, two of them 180 degree contradicted the surgeon over the best approach to prevention of a relapse.  180 degree contradiction.

 

In the one life threatening issue faced by one of our feline companions... the vets have no idea what causes it.

Far less is known than is unknown it seems from my experience.  They put up a good front.  They can describe symptoms and using their molecular approach relieve symptoms, but description is not understanding... and how often does the relief of symptom through the use of specific molecules, bring about another pallete of further symptoms that must then be chased down with yet more pharaceutical molecules?

 

Western medicine is great at treating symptoms and caring for trauma and physical damage, ie carpentry and surgical repair.

 

As for prevention and true understanding, I've about let go of Western med approach entirely.

 

 

Edited by silent thunder
changed phrasing for clarity and effect
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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

As for prevention and true understanding, I've about let go of Western med approach entirely.

 

One or the other? Why? To bring Eastern wisdom into Western wisdom would be like merging heaven and earth, the unification Yin and Yang! But this is the reaction today. Left or right, white or black, east or west. Sad.

 

And is TCM that great? Do they know everything? Go to two different TCM doctors and you will get two different answers. One will say yin deficiency and the other yang excess. Maybe two expert TCM and Eastern Doctors will give the same diagnosis,  but the world is full of people who know little but profess much. Or maybe it is all the heavy metals in the herbals that help in TCM?
 

If one can use western wisdom to explain and translate eastern wisdom I see only benefits as a result.

Edited by Song of the Dao

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