Zen Pig

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." ..

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Rhetorical question to all the folks who drone on and on and on............ and on, about the theory of spiritual practice, argue about topics or metaphors quoted by dead guru's......... Those who preach there beliefs as if they are the finial truth, or written in stone..........

 

How's that working for you so far?

 

Looking back on all the time spent discussing spiritual topics to debate,  argued over,  offer invaluable opinions on.........  Have you ever had a deep ground shaking opening to life?  One that was impossible to put into words"? Have you ever had the experience, (or experiences)  of seeing this universe, life, god in the most simple and profound manner?

 

As I said,  kind of a rhetorical question,  but an interesting one for me. 

 

Not suggesting that I know something special,  (because I don't know anything special at all), or not that I don't comment on post,   because I am human and love being human with all its amazing wonder,  just something I am reflecting on this cold morning.  

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35 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

How's that working for you so far?

I do not think it works well for anyone.

 

If a person is open and truly practicing or cultivating their perspective shifts and I would venture to say many, many times. To me there is no end to understanding and knowing. Just when I think I've got it all figured out, bam! a new path to deeper clarity and understanding emerges from the mist.

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2 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

rhetorical question to all the folks who drone on and on and on............ and on, about the theory of spiritual practice, argue about topics or metaphors quoted by dead guru's......... Those who preach there beliefs as if they are the finial truth, or written in stone..........

I think there're a number of different reasons for this for different folk. In no particular order, these could be because they're

 

  • Still searching for a path/way
  • Still learning (aren't we all?) and are genuinely confused
  • Over-emphasing the intellect
  • Procrastinating instead of practising
  • Genuinely seeking clarification and a way through mental blocks
  • Simply enjoy talking about the many  facscinating topics that appear on the board
  • Enjoying an environment where they can safely talk about various topics, which may be in stark contrast to their off-line environment. 
  • Axe grinding
  • Trying to make sense of and contextualise their experiences
  • Proselytizing
  • Shit stirring
  • Are sorted and genuinely sharing
  • Aren't sorted and genuinely sharing
  • Enjoy debating
  • Are bored
  • Seeking out like minded indivduals
  • Seeking healing and wholness
  • Enjoy trolling
  • etc ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by rex
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48 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

Have you ever had a deep ground shaking opening to life?  One that was impossible to put into words"? Have you ever had the experience, (or experiences)  of seeing this universe, life, god in the most simple and profound manner?

Yeah, the awakening of a new sensation of joy, that is the opening of life and can often be felt as a ground shaking new awareness of a new idea and new realization that fills us with inspiriling inspirations of being in alignment with our true non-physical greater core our soul and highest most truest of ever expanding being ongoingly, ever expandingly, always through the here and now, in our ever more and ever new ever becoming of the moreness and newness of that joy. That always feels ground breaking and reliefing unlike anything that we have ever felt before, as it always happens ever new and ever here and ever now.

 

It is the freedom of being free, and letting go and allow the new and here and now, to fulfill us of all our desires and wants and needs. And allowing and trusting the universe to fulfill our desires and wants and needs. And going with the flow and enjoying the ride. And thus then being free ongoingly, evermore.

 

It is the appreciation that we feel when we appreciate that which brings us so much joy. As we then have the most valued freedom of enjoying that evermore, with evermore passion and ongoingly. And the never ending journey of that enjoyment that evermore expands our freedom and enjoyment ever new and ever refreshening and rejuvinating and re-vitalizing.

 

It is the excitement of being alife and living and going through this uniquely never before had experience evermore. And enjoying all of that evermore new and evermore valuable and unique experience and enjoying the ever renewing of all of that which we enjoy so much into evermore and ever new and ever here and ever more ever now.

 

It is the dance of being in alignment with your own soul and reason for being here, and agreeing fully with the life fulfilling and joyful feeling perspective of your own soul, who evermore lives with you and through you and as you, alongside you with your life and as your life. And it is the trust in and of that joy that you feel in all of that as the only reason for your being and evermore fulfilling and ever greater fulfilling reason for and of your being evermore.

 

It is the value of a life measured in joy. That thus then sets us free to live the live we'ves always dreamed of living. And enjoy everything that comes our way, through the tapestry of our life. As all the ingredients of live are there for our choosing. So we only choose the ones we like the most and enjoy the version of life that we enjoy and like the most thus then aswell. And being free to always change and explore new ways of being in alignment with our soul. And new ways of expressing our joy and core being of who we are evermore.

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Satori, enlightenment is a pretty high bar.   If one gets a sense of peace and a smile.. lowers the blood pressure a bit.. learns to let things go.. that's good enough for me.  I'm not chasing enlightenment anymore, at this point, it'll have to come to me. 

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9 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Satori, enlightenment is a pretty high bar.   If one gets a sense of peace and a smile.. lowers the blood pressure a bit.. learns to let things go.. that's good enough for me.  I'm not chasing enlightenment anymore, at this point, it'll have to come to me. 

That's wonderful. To be at peace with where you are, is not the first step towards enlightenment. It is the indication of your allowing to be walking down the path of least resistance, that is the same path as the everlasting journey of joy that is what it is to be enlightened.

 

So if people wanna experience enlightenment, simply just lighten up on yourself. And you'll be enlightened like thelerner has demonstrated here through the power of his very own valuable and uniquely leading example of allowing himself to be the state of being of his preference, unconditionally, meaning regardless of his conditions. Simply because you need no other reason, than that you exist, to know your eternally worthy nature and creatorhood that is of all of eternal and infinite ever expanding existance.

 

It really is that simple. To simply be at peace with who it is you are, who ever you are, whever you are and whenever you are.

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Also about expecting different results.

 

You are always getting a different result, it is only when you recognize the difference where it already is, that you then allow yourself to realise that difference for yourself evermore.

 

Even the smallest change, is a total change. A completely and entirely different universe all together and ever more ever new!

 

You are not the same you you used to be. You have a different history and future altogether. You are in your every moment of your here and now a completely and totally fully different being altogether.

 

Never the same thing twice. It is always a different here and now. Always a new here and now. And to allow and enjoy the freshness of your every new now moment of here and now, is what it's all about, to enjoy the changes as they come. As you can never know how something is going to happen, that only your higher mind can know.

 

We are here to experience the change that we allow to happen through our alignment with the guidance from our own higher mind that comes in the form of a feeling of excitement and ground breaking new idea of what we truely want to do in our new here and now and again, on and on.

 

It is the ever sanitizing sanity of the genius leading edge creatorhood of who it is you truely really already are and are evermore becoming evermore. In ever expanding new ideas of wants and preferences of your joy.

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55 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Satori, enlightenment is a pretty high bar.   If one gets a sense of peace and a smile.. lowers the blood pressure a bit.. learns to let things go.. that's good enough for me.  I'm not chasing enlightenment anymore, at this point, it'll have to come to me. 

same here my friend.  experiences come and go,  and while amazing, we find ourselves right here.  sometimes one has to laugh.  Reminds me of the old Oxhearding pictures,  where in the end,  the poem says: 

 

"

Ragged and bare-footed, you approach the market and the streets.

Even covered in dust, why would the laughter cease?

The bees and buttterflies are happy because flowers have bloomed on a withered tree.

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2 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

How's that working for you so far?

 

My life only really began changing when I discovered mindfulness. Living in the moment, here, now - aware of my own thoughts, my own feelings, my own actions. Insanity creeps back in when I forget to be present, but the "insanity events" are getting shorter, and fewer, and more time passes between them.

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For once, I had to go find the definition to "mindfulness" ,  which is interesting, and it also turns out that the majority of my meditation can be described with that word.  There is an aspect of what folks call "energy work" which seems to arise naturally, which I think it does for most folks who have a good meditation practice. 

 

"The connection between mindfulness and Buddhism is clearest, however, in the ancient text known as the Satipatthana Sutta; translated into English as The Discourse on the Establishing of Mindfulness (the word sati means mindfulness)Therein, the Buddha lays out the first-ever set of mindfulness instructions, guiding the practitioner to place careful attention on four different aspects – or foundations – of experience:

  1. The body (e.g., the breath)*
  2. Sensations or feelings
  3. The mind/consciousness
  4. Mental contents

*Note that the Buddha's first foundation of mindfulness is the body (which includes the breath), and it is no coincidence that many modern mindfulness practices begin by focusing on one or both of these aspects.

It is important to remember that modern mindfulness practices are often taught secularly – that is, with little or no mention of their Buddhist connections. "

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2 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

Rhetorical question to all the folks who drone on and on and on............ and on, about the theory of spiritual practice, argue about topics or metaphors quoted by dead guru's......... Those who preach there beliefs as if they are the finial truth, or written in stone..........

 

How's that working for you so far?

 

Looking back on all the time spent discussing spiritual topics to debate,  argued over,  offer invaluable opinions on.........  Have you ever had a deep ground shaking opening to life?  One that was impossible to put into words"? Have you ever had the experience, (or experiences)  of seeing this universe, life, god in the most simple and profound manner?

The way I look at is as follows --

In the spiritual path, there are two aspects. One is that of the "deep, ground shaking opening" - The Direct experiential aspect. The other is the theoretical framework which includes study, contemplation and meditation. This stabilizes the realization that we get from the Direct experience. 

 

IMHO, there is value in debates, arguing etc, until it is not needed anymore. While we are in the seeking mode, there is a tendency to do the debates, etc (in many cases overdo it). Once the seeking ends, there really isn't any argument anymore.

 

The argumentation, debating etc is a sign of turmoil. It can work as a process of "churning" , converting bookish knowledge into realization (like converting cream into butter). But the key for that is sincerity of intent. In indic frameworks, there are different categories of "discourse", viz. samvāda, vāda, jalpa and vitanda. Samvāda is essentially a discourse between an expert and a novice (teacher and student). The other three are described here -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debates_in_ancient_India.

 

Care should be taken to ensure discussions don't devolve into Jalpa or vitanda. On fora such as this, imho, the effort should be to inculcate vāda and/or samvāda. But, it is easier said than done. :) 

 

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A good point there, indeed, Anything one mindlessly repeats or overdoes should be examined for its value. ( and that includes me) 

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I started to write a post related to the OP in a different thread yesterday but deleted it.

Lately, I tend to delete most of my posts after seeing them in print.

Silence seems preferable to most of my words.

I'd imagine some of you would agree!

:D

 

It had to do with our tendency to attach ourselves to a conceptual framework or paradigm.

While we feel that aligning ourselves perfectly with a particular tradition is bringing us closer to a deeper understanding (and there is truth to this), at the same time it may well have the effect of restricting our growth.

We tend to reject the things that conflict with that paradigm and glom on to things that support it.

We are only wiling to see things in a way that allows them to fit into our framework.

This leads to limiting our perspective, something I feel is antithetical to spirituality.

 

For me, the single most important quality needed for growth is openness..

While there is some value to the paradigm as a support, we need to be careful it doesn't become a fetish or a belief system.

When we start denying and rejecting others' opinions and experiences to maintain our confidence in the paradigm, it has become an obstacle. When we endlessly debate and argue with others, trying to be right or get in the last word, who are we trying to convince?

Ourselves

 

Our tendency to try and align our experience with that framework can be quite subtle and pervasive.

Even in what we may think is direct experience, the narrator is often there directing our interpretation and processing of the experience, and selecting what we include and what we exclude.

 

I watch this in my meditation practice and in my day to day.

 

When faced with something that doesn't fit into my framework, there are a few possibilities.

1) I can reject the opinion or experience, considering it to be an error, a misunderstanding, a falsehood

2) I can reject my framework, finding it faulty, and go in search of another

3) I can recognize that I may have an imperfect understanding of the framework and recognize that no framework perfectly captures what is real, it is always an approximation.

 

For me, the 3rd option is the most conducive to personal growth in the spiritual arena.

Any framework can be a support and none is correct to the exclusion of others.

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, steve said:

For me, the single most important quality needed for growth is openness..

yes. flexible minds.  willing to work a path, but being open minded. If something is not working, it could be the way I am doing it, (or not doing it), or it could just not be my fit, for my personality,  or it could be shit.

Much like Martial Arts,  I could never do monkey form, because it does not fit my body type, and my personality.  But some forms of martial arts are not so good ,  but in the end,  we got to find what works, 

and Just Do the Art.

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5 hours ago, Everything said:

 

So if people wanna experience enlightenment, simply just lighten up on yourself. And you'll be enlightened like thelerner has demonstrated here through the power of his very own valuable and uniquely leading example of allowing himself to be the state of being of his preference, unconditionally, meaning regardless of his conditions.

 

 

hold on.. .. finishes shaking fist at universe that largely ignores him. 

 

Thanks, but I set a pretty low bar in terms of practice and realization.  I'm hoping most of you aim and achieve a little higher :)

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3 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

yes. flexible minds.  willing to work a path, but being open minded. If something is not working, it could be the way I am doing it, (or not doing it), or it could just not be my fit, for my personality,  or it could be shit.

Much like Martial Arts,  I could never do monkey form, because it does not fit my body type, and my personality.  But some forms of martial arts are not so good ,  but in the end,  we got to find what works, 

and Just Do the Art.

I thought the highlighted part of your post was very apt. Especially with traditional systems. They have worked for millions over thousands of years. Odds are that we need to work more (and usually it is at shedding our mental filters). 

Often once we are "insiders" of one system, there can be a tendency to look at others with the intent of finding flaws. One cannot learn anything if that is the attitude, imho.  

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33 minutes ago, steve said:

For me, the single most important quality needed for growth is openness..

While there is some value to the paradigm as a support, we need to be careful it doesn't become a fetish or a belief system.

When we start denying and rejecting others' opinions and experiences to maintain our confidence in the paradigm, it has become an obstacle. When we endlessly debate and argue with others, trying to be right or get in the last word, who are we trying to convince?

Ourselves

 

Our tendency to try and align our experience with that framework can be quite subtle and pervasive.

Even in what we may think is direct experience, the narrator is often there directing our interpretation and processing of the experience, and selecting what we include and what we exclude.

 

I am glad you decided to type and post, rather than composing and deleting this also :).

 It is a truly balanced perspective, thank you.

 

I believe in direct experiences and consider them very important.  At the same time, without the openness or emptying the cup, there may be no progress and one could get stuck in a certain state for a very long time.

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57 minutes ago, thelerner said:

hold on.. .. finishes shaking fist at universe that largely ignores him. 

 

Thanks, but I set a pretty low bar in terms of practice and realization.  I'm hoping most of you aim and achieve a little higher :)

It may sound weird, but you cannot believe that the universe is responding to your every request, and that it evermore conspires to satisfy your every desire, evermore, unless you first see how it is doing so always here and now, evermore, and thus then align with the ever occurance of such, causing it to expand into your minds capability of also understanding what is happening by the only teacher that has ever taught you anything, which is personal experience.

 

To synchronise with the perception of this desire to know, and thus the realisation of knowing it ever more, you first have to be feeling very good, which then allows you to perceive, by virtue of your frequential synchronised energy motional, emotional, alignment with this relativity of alignment with your true self as loving light as all that exists as consciousness as who it is you truely already are and are becoming evermore.

 

Thus it simply requires one to feel better, ongoingly, in order to, eventually also feel very good. 

 

Now what I said about your contentment, is that it is not the first step, because it will seem that way to you. That making peace is the most subtle alignment with your desire as you seek to perceive it and thus expand on it evermore. So in making peace you can eventually have that moment of enlightenment, it'll just happen by incident, which is actually co-incidended and co-created with your own deliberate alignment (indicated by feeling better/relief) with your greater non-physical being of who it is you truely already are.

 

And you in your physical being only ever choose that because it feels better. Because that emotional indication is the most accurate guidance of resistance/allowance between the relativity of your physical being and non-physical being.

 

But if you realise that one step, is the same as all the infinity of steps that come after it, then you will celebrate your ability to make peace here and now evermore, no matter how simple that ability is, this small change is a total change, with all that is, evermore, with all of creation, evermore. Why? Because it simply feels better. And that is the only way you can ever perceive all the good that is truely yours evermore. Thus you celebrate the better feeling evermore. As the highest succes of all succeses.

 

Thus the only requirement to succeed on your everlasting journey in fulfilling of your greatest reason for being here on your eternal joyous journey as a greater eternal and ever expanding infinite being, that always has acces to the Source of All Creation, and the endless stream of its wellbeing and intelligence, in your ever allowance of your ever more alignment with who it is you truely really already are, thus then your inspiral with your inspiration of your spirit, your true self, evermore. 

 

But you simply do it because it feels good. And if you are sensitive towards the way you feel, then nothing you can ever do, will ever go wrong. Cause you will feel it before it gets that far, and at worst, you fall asleep in all the good dreams you're dreaming. Then remember, who it is you truely are again, and on you go in living joy.

 

Remember that all of this is created for you, just for your enjoyment of it evermore. And that nothing serious is ever happening so you don't ever need try anything or accomplish anything accept that you feel good now and here where all of your power always already is, always has been and always will be. So nothing is left undone, and thus as you do not the action, but rather do the allowing of it to be so, as it already always has been so, is and always will be so, then you accomplish the only thing that is worthy of your discipline. And that is that you feel better. 

 

This ability to feel better, is something that you have the ability to do, but it requires one to be unconditional, meaning, not care about any conditions whatsoever. To align with the Source of All of your conditions, so that you can enjoy in an as obsessedly enjoying and unconditionally loving way that your soul already is always doing here and now in it's undivided attention on all of your physicalness and all that is of it. And that is why you feel so bad when you don't listen to your soul. Cause you are ment to feel that much better when you do care about how you feel and thus then allow yourself to become who it is you truely are evermore. You will see through the eyes of infinite intelligence as you feel that love and good feeling energy motional sycnrhonisation with your true essence of being, that you can thus then integrate effortlessly with the true meaning and thus your true purpose of being and true reason for being, evermore. So that the only truth that ever remains evermore, is that of your greater knowing, ever expanding greater knowing, evermore. As you simply allow that, and whenever you simply allow that.

 

Thus in doing nothing, and leaving nothing undone, you make way for haste of your joy, and inspired actions that leverage the power of the energy which creates world for your benefit of the life you are living here and now and all that are of it aswell. 

 

You might say, well, I'll just jump from a tall building then! And yes! That is the spirit! But it is more helpful, if you just be happy, without feeling the need to do anything, except what feels good. It is like letting go and fully trusting. And just loving and turn your attention away from what feels bad. You only do these things cause it feels better. And as you go with the flow of your ever expanding greater non-physical being, energy motionally, all is well for you, and all goes well, because you simply see how it is well and thus you feel well and thus you become evermore well. 

 

And when you die, you don't go anywhere else, but come back into your full blown conscious awareness of all that you have become in all of the true love for all the beingness you have truely been and thus evermore so allowed to become even more so. And how then your physical life resonates evermore into the spirals of infinity and into the creation of all that is, as all is here and now is forever. So there is no reason ever, not to feel good about who it is you are. 

 

And your soul is already loving you, unconditionally, and you don't need any conditions to know that, as your soul hasn't ever needed it either, so you can never be forgiven because you have never been blamed. So if you feel good, always here and now is available to you all the knowing you could ever want or need in order to fulfill your life of the most absolute joyful experience that can possibly be. And what you thus then don't know, you don't need to know when you don't need to know it. And when you do need to know it you will know it. 

 

Because the only thing that matters is that your alignment with who you really are, and thus feel good, so that you can become the total being that is who it is and what it is that you truely already are, always have been and always will be. As the everlasting dance of harmonies and resonances of your consciousness resonating evermore throughout all that is, so as to create all that is, which is here, evermore, which now. For no other reason than that it feels good as you do so, ad that is the only reason ever worthy of reasoning evermore into ever expanding and greater realisations of all of who it is you truely are evermore in your ever becoming. 

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46 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

I am glad you decided to type and post, rather than composing and deleting this also :).

 It is a truly balanced perspective, thank you.

 

I believe in direct experiences and consider them very important.  At the same time, without the openness or emptying the cup, there may be no progress and one could get stuck in a certain state for a very long time.

So allow yourself to feel free, cause you are free. And if you allow yourself to feel free, you will see how and why it is that you are free evermore. 

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57 minutes ago, Everything said:

Because the only thing that matters is that your alignment with who you really are, and thus feel good, so that you can become the total being that is who it is and what it is that you truely already are, always have been and always will be. As the everlasting dance of harmonies and resonances of your consciousness resonating evermore throughout all that is, so as to create all that is, which is here, evermore, which now. For no other reason than that it feels good as you do so, ad that is the only reason ever worthy of reasoning evermore into ever expanding and greater realisations of all of who it is you truely are evermore in your ever becoming. 

wow. lots, and lots of words....... 

My feeling is that you are either ecstatic, doing lots of meth, crazy, or drinking lots and lots of Starbucks.  LOL.  I think I like you.   You seem to just own it.  LOL.  would rather know crazy folks than sane folks.   cheers. 

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why do you quote a dead guru (Buddha) which sounds like ax grinding?

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3 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

wow. lots, and lots of words....... 

My feeling is that you are either ecstatic, doing lots of meth, crazy, or drinking lots and lots of Starbucks.  LOL.  I think I like you.   You seem to just own it.  LOL.  would rather know crazy folks than sane folks.   cheers. 

 

I hope someone is recording Everything’s posts.  It would make a great publication someday, entitled “The Book of Everything”. 

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13 hours ago, 3bob said:

why do you quote a dead guru (Buddha) which sounds like ax grinding?

 

in other words Zen guy you sound very dismissive of people quoting dead guru's as you've so flippantly put it, but its ok for you to quote yours namely the Buddha....which tends to imply that your dead guru is better than other dead gurus...besides other bits of equanimity?

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3 minutes ago, 3bob said:

in other words Zen guy you sound very dismissive of people quoting dead guru's as you've so flippantly put it, but its ok for you to quote yours namely the Buddha....which tends to imply that your dead guru is better than other dead gurus...besides other bits of equanimity?

dude,  seems that your idea of my intent is all in your head,  at least i did not say, "dead guru's who wear diapers"  LOL. (as far as Buddha goes,  "if you see him on the road , kill him"

Frankly,  if i had a choice, I would much rather go out and have a beer with Jesus than Buddha, after all, JC got pissed, kicked ass in the temple, and turned water to wine,  my kind of guy!  :)

 

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not really since you've made that dead guru statement a couple of times,  and since most of us are not mind readers how else are we supposed to take each other statements?  Btw, i suggest not mixing much beer with wine unlees one has total inner gut mastery.

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