Is ‘Dao’ more easily translated as ‘God’, or ‘Nature’?

[Walker]

8 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

 

The western man god does not like people and is fond of genocide. The term foreign devils comes from the western introduction of religion to china. After reading the bible they assumed they in the west worshiped some kind of devil. 

 

You're usually a font of on-point comments, but in this case WMJ, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, you gotta be fucking kidding me.

 

Asians in general and Chinese in specific have been genociding left right and center for just as long as all the other motley colors of mankind. Guangzhou massacre. Dzungar genocide. Or, if you want something that people from Sichuan still talks about today, howzabout 張獻忠/Zhang Xianzhong, whose armies slaughtered 1,000,000 people, or 1/3 of the province's population back in the 1600s: 

 

Quote

According to Shu Bi (蜀碧), an 18th-century account of the massacre, after every slaughter, the heads were collected and placed in several big piles, while the hands were placed in other big piles, and the ears and noses in more piles, so that Zhang Xianzhong could keep count of his killings.^[21] In one incident, he is said to have organized an imperial examination ostensibly to recruit scholars for his administration, only to have all the candidates, which numbered many thousands, killed.^[22] In another, to give thanks for his recovery after an illness, he was said to have cut off the feet of many women. The severed feet were heaped in two piles with those of his favorite concubine, whose feet were unusually small, placed on top. These two piles of feet were then doused in oil and set alight to become what he called "heavenly candles".^[18]

 

 

It seems advisable to make efforts to not occlude our sight with naive Orientalism or banal PRC "we Chinese love peace, you foreigners love war" propaganda.

[voidisyinyang]

8 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

You're usually a font of on-point comments, but in this case WMJ, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, you gotta be fucking kidding me.

 

Asians in general and Chinese in specific have been genociding left right and center for just as long as all the other motley colors of mankind. Guangzhou massacre. Dzungar genocide. Or, if you want something that people from Sichuan still talks about today, howzabout 張獻忠/Zhang Xianzhong, whose armies slaughtered 1,000,000 people, or 1/3 of the province's population back in the 1600s: 

 

 

 

It seems advisable to make efforts to not occlude our sight with naive Orientalism or banal PRC "we Chinese love peace, you foreigners love war" propaganda.

 

Sure - the "Hub" referred to in the Tao Te Ching - is the Chariot Warriors Indo-Europeans that invaded into Western China right? Just as they invaded into India around 1700 BCE - as DNA science has now proven (much to the dismay of the Indians). haha.

"Dragon and Tiger" terms are proven to go back to 5000 BCE - tombs in China.

So yeah no need to idealize China - but the original human culture, the San Bushmen, did not have war, nor rape, no homosexuality, nor masturbation - and that culture did spread around the world...(and is the origin of the spiritual healing training).

[Walker]

On 7/31/2018 at 5:58 AM, Phoenix3 said:

Please give a reason.

 

And if ‘God’ usually is seen as masculine, and ‘Nature’ is usually seen as feminine, then what gender is ‘Dao’?

 

If ‘God’ is usually seen as personal, and ‘Nature’ is usually seen as impersonal, then what is ‘Dao’?

 

Please don’t just repeat the predictable answer of ‘Dao is genderless’ or ‘the Dao that can be named is not the true Dao’, like a mindless drone. Not to say they are wrong, but it’s just a typical answer from someone who doesn’t think. Please provide a thoughtful answer, though I acknowledge thinking isn’t for everyone.

 

Thanks

 

Since you're such a thoughtful smartypants, why, then there's no need for us unthinking simpletons to botch things up by trying to answer this question for you--you're doubtlessly capable of using your brainy brain to read the classics directly. Since you're probably busy thinking about lots of things and reading so many books, I'll try my best to help you a wee bit by suggesting a tiny little paragraph, but sheesh, I don't know if it'll be up to your standards, o Phoenix.

 

關尹子曰：「事有在，事言有理。道無在，道言無理。知言無理，則言言皆道。不知言無理，雖執至言，為梗為翳。」

 

Now that we got that out of the way.

 

1. Dao is genderless. Gender does not remove one from Dao.

2. Dao is impersonal. Persons are not separate from Dao.

3. The Dao in our definitions is not the true Dao.

4. There are no synonyms for a word that has no definition.

5. All words are synonymous with a word that has no definition.

6. No words express Dao.

7. No words are separate from the Dao.

8. You are more likely to find your answers by being "mindless" than not. 

9. Thinking is merely an adjutant for cultivators of Dao.

10. You seem to possess youth and energy. If you care so much, use those things to learn Chinese and sincerely cultivate. Or, spend your life asking half-baked questions on the internet and getting stupid answers from insipid forum bums like me in return for your tepid efforts. Whatever. 

[Taoist Texts]

On 7/31/2018 at 2:14 AM, Marblehead said:

"Dao gave birth … " would indicate that Dao would be feminine.  So Dao is the Mother of all Nature (within the universe).

Of course it is. Not genderless at all.

 

it is the Mother of all things.

[Taoist Texts]

On 7/31/2018 at 7:12 AM, vonkrankenhaus said:

So Dao is not a thing.

well, DDJ begs to differ. Of course it is a thing.

 

There was some thing undefined and complete, coming into existence before Heaven and Earth.

[voidisyinyang]

yes - good Q & A - Dao is feminine.

Pregadio states "Mysterious" is male (yang) and "Valley" is female (yin) - but in the cycle of generation Wood is the beginning. The Dao is female because with the eyes open - external reality is yang from Sun but the secret source of light is from the Dao - discovered with the eyes closed as the internal FEmale - the yin qi (wood).

 

And then in terms of etymology - it is the translator - Red Pine - who argues Tao means Moon.

http://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-tao-moon-red-pines-translation-of.html

As I have blogged.

Quote

Lao Tzu came from a Miao (Hmong are a sub-group of Miao) influenced shamanic culture and the Tao actually means the Moon. Red Pine says the T'ai Chi symbol is actually the full and new moon interwoven and the meaning of Tao has the character "head" which refers to the face of the Moon.

And so - the reason being that the first half of enlightenment is the yin qi manifesting as the lunar energy through the ancestral cavity - out of the pineal gland. The light seen then is yellow-white like the full moon. And the pineal gland is then controlled by the lunar energy, as the moon governs life on Earth.

 

So the original healers are female - most of Nature does not need males - as parthenogenesis is the norm for Nature.

 

As for God - the etymology means Bull as in plow patriarchal farming for wheat monoculture. Brahman also means Bull.

And so - a good book on this is "When God was a Woman" by Merlin Stone - that gives details on how the earlier matrifocal moon cultures got co-opted into the Chariot Patriarchal plow cultures of the iron age....

 

Quote

The Germanic Gott and the English God come from another Indo-European root, Go, which surprisingly means "the bull".

 

p. 49, Gods of Love and Ecstasy: The Traditions of Shiva and Dionysus by Alain Danielou.

My earlier blog has more details.

 

 

Quote

 

 

In the god-list An:Anum (53), the title of balang servant-gods was written with the logogram GUD.BALAĜ, where GUD is the logogram for the bull.

 

From bull to god was a small gap to jump in Mesopotamian culture: anthropomorphic gods carried horns on their headgear, betraying an original bovine nature. According to the ritual, it happened by way of the death of the bull. It was important that it was not a working animal, not touched by goad or stick in the ritual, even less touched by civilization in the OB version of the oratorio Uru’amma’irabi an undomesticated aurochs bull.

 

Balang-gods were given the title GUD.BALAĜ in An:Anum, a term translated as mumtalku ‘the one with whom one takes counsel, confidant’ in KAV 64 II 17. The same function was expressed in Sumerian with the title ad-gi4-gi4, literally ‘sound repeating’, in conventional translation ‘adviser’, or as we might say ‘sounding board’.

Gabbay (PHG:103–109) pointed out that the designation GUD.BALAĜ is restricted to An:Anum, not attested as Sumerian word, and probably a logogram of ad-gi4-gi4 ‘adviser’.

“(Sumerian) Harpist (= Akkadian) seer, BALAĜ = lyre.” [62]
The conventional transliteration of the word for lyre is gi-na-ru12-um. The sign GI was used to write /ki/ elsewhere in Ebla texts, and the Hebrew word, kinnōr begins with /k/. The word na-ṭi3-lu-um has been understood to mean ‘to raise one’s voice’. [63] In Akkadian, it means ‘to raise one’s eyes, observe’, and at Mari is also as substantive, ‘observer’. An observer (igi-du8) working with the balang instrument, used to control weather-storms, is attested in Ur III texts (29, cf. Section 3c2).

The Sumerian expression “its porch of the balang was a princely sounding bull (21)” may refer to the fact that the cover of the soundbox was a bull hide rather than to the actual cattle-like sound.

 

wolfgang heimpel on sumeria

To see this we will consider two Sumerian hymns to the Moon-god, Nanna-Suen, that were studied by my teacher Professor Wolfgang Heimpel in the Festschrift for Ake Sjoberg, where the stars are referred to as cows and cattle, living in heavenly cattle pens.“

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Walker]

4 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

yes - good Q & A - Dao is feminine.

Pregadio states "Mysterious" is male (yang) and "Valley" is female (yin) - but in the cycle of generation Wood is the beginning. The Dao is female because with the eyes open - external reality is yang from Sun but the secret source of light is from the Dao - discovered with the eyes closed as the internal FEmale - the yin qi (wood).

 

Firstly, I'm glad to finally see somebody reference this exceedingly important point, which I will expand upon since Pregadio isn't here to do so.

 

We are used to seeing English translation after English translation that talks about "the mysterious female." This comes from two Chinese characters side by side, 玄 and 牝; usually the first character is taken to be an adjective describing the second, and that's where "mysterious female" comes from. 

 

However, there is a long tradition in inner alchemy of viewing these two characters as two nouns placed side by side. When that happens, you get, instead of "the mysterious female," basically, "male and female." This should draw readers minds two two very commonly repeated phrases in Daoist cultivation. The first, from the Yijing, is "一陰一陽謂之道," or "one yin, one yang, this is called Dao." The second is "孤陰不生，獨陽不長," or "alone, yin will not be born; alone, yang will not grow" (Wang Chongyang is famously supposed to have told this to Sun Bu'er, who was at first scandalized, thinking he was trying to "put his yang in her yin," until she and Ma Danyang realized he was telling her a secret of inner alchemy practice). The import of this is that inner alchemy involved yin and yang, not pure yin, nor an idea that the Dao is all yin or female, and that that's where we're headed. 

 

When it comes to the question of where Pregadio got his idea about what 玄 and 牝, most likely he saw Liu Yiming present it numerous times in his writings. I've seen it in other writers' works and my guess--just a guess--is that this kind of explanation can be found in writing at least in the Song Dynasty, maybe earlier. Something to look into later. 

 

Now, secondly, Drew, here's where there's a problem. Above you say, "external reality is yang from sun, but the secret source of light is from the Dao--discovered with the eyes closed as the internal female, the yin qi (wood)." I see two major mistakes with this line of thought.

 

1. It runs contrary to Daoist thought to claim that the manifest world is not Dao where as the unmanifest is Dao. The Dao is all encompassing, yet it is not a thing that encompasses; there is nothing in which the Dao is not to be found, although you will not find the Dao in things. 

 

2. In five phase theory, wood is not really yin. It actually represents the phase in which the first yang is born in stillness and grows until reaching its full potential (fire), which which point a first yin is born, which will grow into metal and back into water. Wood is associated with growth, upwards movement, stirring from slumber, the awakening of spring from winter, the morning. Wood is quite yang. 

 

 

4 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

And then in terms of etymology - it is the translator - Red Pine - who argues Tao means Moon.

http://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-tao-moon-red-pines-translation-of.html

As I have blogged.

And so - the reason being that the first half of enlightenment is the yin qi manifesting as the lunar energy through the ancestral cavity - out of the pineal gland. The light seen then is yellow-white like the full moon. And the pineal gland is then controlled by the lunar energy, as the moon governs life on Earth.

 

Huh? On your blog post you said that Red Pine said that the taiji symbol means moon. Anyway...

 

1. The taiji symbol (perhaps more properly called the "yin yang symbol," because the circle with the dot in the middle is also referred to as a taiji) is just a symbol for taiji. It is not called "the Dao symbol" in China.

2. I don't think there is record of its being associated with Daoism till 1,500 years after Laozi, though I may be wrong.

3. With all due respect to the man, Red Pine is an expert on Buddhist but not Daoist practice. I came to this conclusion after asking him a question in person about Daoist practice, and his answer was one that only somebody who does not read inner alchemy writings would give. 

 

And

 

4. The logical train of, "Red Pine said that the taiji symbol is a moon and Laozi was a member of the Miao people therefore the Dao is feminine and your pineal gland proves this by glowing with moonlight," is... certainly Drewism, not necessarily Daoism. 

 

 

4 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

So the original healers are female - most of Nature does not need males - as parthenogenesis is the norm for Nature.

 

As for God - the etymology means Bull as in plow patriarchal farming for wheat monoculture. Brahman also means Bull.

And so - a good book on this is "When God was a Woman" by Merlin Stone - that gives details on how the earlier matrifocal moon cultures got co-opted into the Chariot Patriarchal plow cultures of the iron age....

 

p. 49, Gods of Love and Ecstasy: The Traditions of Shiva and Dionysus by Alain Danielou.

My earlier blog has more details.

wolfgang heimpel on sumeria

To see this we will consider two Sumerian hymns to the Moon-god, Nanna-Suen, that were studied by my teacher Professor Wolfgang Heimpel in the Festschrift for Ake Sjoberg, where the stars are referred to as cows and cattle, living in heavenly cattle pens.“

 

How on earth Sumerian/Sanskrit/whatever philology sheds light on Daoism is beyond me, even with your extra large, highlighted red font... 

[Phoenix3]

7 hours ago, Walker said:

Since you're such a thoughtful smartypants, why, then there's no need for us unthinking simpletons to botch things up by trying to answer this question for you--you're doubtlessly capable of using your brainy brain to read the classics directly. Since you're probably busy thinking about lots of things and reading so many books, I'll try my best to help you a wee bit by suggesting a tiny little paragraph, but sheesh, I don't know if it'll be up to your standards, o Phoenix

 

I just said what i said so there would be no silly predictable platitudes and then 99 pages of off-topic nonsense, as is the case for most threads. You are just being rude for the sake of being rude, but whatever.

[Phoenix3]

7 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

the "Hub" referred to in the Tao Te Ching - is the Chariot Warriors Indo-Europeans that invaded into Western China right? Just as they invaded into India around 1700 BCE - as DNA science has now proven (much to the dismay of the Indians). haha.

 

What is this ‘hub’? And I thought the invasion wasn’t proven as there is no archeological evidence of an invasion around 1700BCE? 

 

[Stosh]

7 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Of course it is. Not genderless at all.

 

it is the Mother of all things.

The moon has no boobs. 

[Taoist Texts]

12 minutes ago, Stosh said:

The moon has no boobs. 

but it is made of green cheese

[Stosh]

7 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

but it is made of green cheese

Cheese is yang.

 

[voidisyinyang]

4 hours ago, Walker said:

 

Firstly, I'm glad to finally see somebody reference this exceedingly important point, which I will expand upon since Pregadio isn't here to do so.

 

We are used to seeing English translation after English translation that talks about "the mysterious female." This comes from two Chinese characters side by side, 玄 and 牝; usually the first character is taken to be an adjective describing the second, and that's where "mysterious female" comes from. 

 

However, there is a long tradition in inner alchemy of viewing these two characters as two nouns placed side by side. When that happens, you get, instead of "the mysterious female," basically, "male and female." This should draw readers minds two two very commonly repeated phrases in Daoist cultivation. The first, from the Yijing, is "一陰一陽謂之道," or "one yin, one yang, this is called Dao." The second is "孤陰不生，獨陽不長," or "alone, yin will not be born; alone, yang will not grow" (Wang Chongyang is famously supposed to have told this to Sun Bu'er, who was at first scandalized, thinking he was trying to "put his yang in her yin," until she and Ma Danyang realized he was telling her a secret of inner alchemy practice). The import of this is that inner alchemy involved yin and yang, not pure yin, nor an idea that the Dao is all yin or female, and that that's where we're headed. 

 

When it comes to the question of where Pregadio got his idea about what 玄 and 牝, most likely he saw Liu Yiming present it numerous times in his writings. I've seen it in other writers' works and my guess--just a guess--is that this kind of explanation can be found in writing at least in the Song Dynasty, maybe earlier. Something to look into later. 

 

Now, secondly, Drew, here's where there's a problem. Above you say, "external reality is yang from sun, but the secret source of light is from the Dao--discovered with the eyes closed as the internal female, the yin qi (wood)." I see two major mistakes with this line of thought.

 

1. It runs contrary to Daoist thought to claim that the manifest world is not Dao where as the unmanifest is Dao. The Dao is all encompassing, yet it is not a thing that encompasses; there is nothing in which the Dao is not to be found, although you will not find the Dao in things. 

 

2. In five phase theory, wood is not really yin. It actually represents the phase in which the first yang is born in stillness and grows until reaching its full potential (fire), which which point a first yin is born, which will grow into metal and back into water. Wood is associated with growth, upwards movement, stirring from slumber, the awakening of spring from winter, the morning. Wood is quite yang. 

 

 

 

Huh? On your blog post you said that Red Pine said that the taiji symbol means moon. Anyway...

 

1. The taiji symbol (perhaps more properly called the "yin yang symbol," because the circle with the dot in the middle is also referred to as a taiji) is just a symbol for taiji. It is not called "the Dao symbol" in China.

2. I don't think there is record of its being associated with Daoism till 1,500 years after Laozi, though I may be wrong.

3. With all due respect to the man, Red Pine is an expert on Buddhist but not Daoist practice. I came to this conclusion after asking him a question in person about Daoist practice, and his answer was one that only somebody who does not read inner alchemy writings would give. 

 

And

 

4. The logical train of, "Red Pine said that the taiji symbol is a moon and Laozi was a member of the Miao people therefore the Dao is feminine and your pineal gland proves this by glowing with moonlight," is... certainly Drewism, not necessarily Daoism. 

 

 

 

How on earth Sumerian/Sanskrit/whatever philology sheds light on Daoism is beyond me, even with your extra large, highlighted red font... 

 

Yeah - nice "commentary" -

If you want to get into five elements and meridians - go for it - but try to remember that the "generation" cycle of the elements is not the same as the "reversal" of the cycle that occurs as alchemy.

I agree with you about the yin yang symbol and how yin and yang go together but in alchemy the "lead is extracted to replenish the mercury. Once the yin qi is restored to a 16 year old - then the Yuan Qi as the middle tan t'ien is activated and the pineal gland opens up.

Now at that stage, the Dao is experience also the T'ai Chi. So this is a "point" of contention obviously. I can quote a philosophy professor I corresponded with this. But Yuan Qi is "undivided yin-yang" - and so the T'ai Chi is the Wuji.

Actually I corresponded with Pregadio about this as well. He embraces the "hub" concept of the Wuji as a static emptiness that is "before" the Taiji. I disagree with this. I embrace an eternal motion - with the Wuji equalling the Taiji.

And so the subtly can be explained using relativistic quantum physics.

Wang Mu states how the Yuan Shen has "movement with non-doing." So when light is turned around, because it has zero rest mass, it can not be "captured" but light does have relativistic mass. This relativistic mass is from the future! This is also called the Golden Key in Zhong Gong - aka "yin matter." So light as radiation converts to matter even though the mass stays the same. How is this possible? Because the relativistic mass is through hidden momentum as positive pressure - or phonons - acoustic oscillations as pure time-frequency energy that can not be seen. So Yuan Qi is the "mother" of Spirit and  Spirit is the child of qi.

 

So I said that this Yuan Qi (undivided yin-yang) is accessed through the yin qi. And so yin qi is "without substance" and so necessarily has to go "down" as the Green Dragon - to turn the Black Tiger into the White Tiger - so the yang now goes up with yin inside it. But then that yang has to go down again, so that the yin is within the  yang - now as White Tiger of saliva or ambrosia - the "sweet Dew" - and as the energy develops this turns into the Golden Nectar. And so the Yuan Qi is then the Elixir - the White Tiger originates from the Water but functions in the House of Li or Fire.

And so the Sun has the Moon in it and the Moon has the Sun in it.

But the Dao can only be logically inferred - as formless awareness with energy - it can not be seen - but it can be listened to, in silence! And the Dao is self-organizing - and is superluminal - again this is confirmed by relativistic quantum physics but it is documented in quantum biology.

So - you say Red Pine is wrong because he is not an "authority" on Daoism, but rather an "authority" on Buddhism and your conclusion is from his wrong answer to a question you gave on Daoist alchemy.

So my question to you is - did you ask him the question, already knowing the answer?

Quote

his answer was one that only somebody who does not read inner alchemy writings would give.

Cuz that's what I call a "fake question" - when someone asks a question that they think they already know the answer to.

haha.

And so why would you ask such a question? Seems like a waste of time to me.

Or.... did you realize that Red Pine just didn't know the answer and so you were left to look elsewhere for the answer?

If that was the case - then I'm just curious - where did you find the answer to your question?

Just to clarify - Red Pine does say the Taji symbol is the phases of the Moon - but he says the word Dao has the character "head" meaning the face of the Moon.

 

[voidisyinyang]

4 hours ago, Walker said:

How on earth Sumerian/Sanskrit/whatever philology sheds light on Daoism is beyond me, even with your extra large, highlighted red font... 

 

The OP asked about God and the Dao - and so the connection is the Sun and the Moon. Plow-based wheat monoculture relied on the solar calendar whereas farming original was based on the lunar calendar. So "original Sin" - this actually refers to the Moon - as I quoted - the Moon God of Sumeria was Sin. The original Garden of Eden story is from Sumeria.

 

And I quote how this ties into music harmonics - in Sumeria and Babylon - the Gods (the planets) were based on music harmonics as ratios of tuning. And so we find this in Daoism as well - the first "note" of music harmonics as alchemy is the Moon. It is both the number 1 and also tied to the Moon calendar.

 

So the Tiger, in ancient China, "rose up" in the East http://thegreatlearning.tripod.com/MOTHER-CHINA-2.htm

Quote

Suzanne Cahill, an authority on Xi Wangmu, places her as one of several ancient “mu divinities” of the directions, “mothers” who are connected to the sun and moon, or to their paths through the heavens. She notes that the widespread tiger images on Shang bronze offerings vessels may have been associated with the western mu deity, an association of tiger and west that goes back to the neolithic. [Cahill, 12-13] The tomb art of this province shows the goddess of transcendence seated in majesty on a dragon and tiger throne. [Liu, 40-3] This magical pair goes back to the Banpo neolithic, circa 5000 BCE, where they flank a burial at Xishuipo,  Henan. [Rawson, 244] Tiger and dragon represented yin and yang before the familiar Tai Ji symbol came into use during the middle ages.

Quote

 

until the “Inner Chapters” of the Zhuang Zi, circa 300 BCE. This early Taoist text casts her as a woman who attained the Tao [Feng, 125]:

Xi Wang Mu attained it and took her seat on Shao Guang mountain.
No one knows her beginning and no one knows her end.

 Xi Wangmu often appears on circular bronze mirrors whose backs are filled with concentric panels swirling with cloud patterns and thunder signs. She is flanked by the tiger and dragon

 

So this is the mirrored alchemically - the male faces south, the left hand is yang as East, the right hand is yin as West. -

The Moon is the mercury since it travels "faster" in relation to the Sun - so the Moon is the psychic yin qi energy. This yin qi energy is then gathered through the Earth - since the Moon controls life on Earth. And Sound expresses this jing energy - as sound is the byproduct of qi and form as jing.

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Wu Ming Jen]

12 hours ago, Walker said:

 

You're usually a font of on-point comments, but in this case WMJ, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, you gotta be fucking kidding me.

 

Asians in general and Chinese in specific have been genociding left right and center for just as long as all the other motley colors of mankind. Guangzhou massacre. Dzungar genocide. Or, if you want something that people from Sichuan still talks about today, howzabout 張獻忠/Zhang Xianzhong, whose armies slaughtered 1,000,000 people, or 1/3 of the province's population back in the 1600s: 

 

 

 

It seems advisable to make efforts to not occlude our sight with naive Orientalism or banal PRC "we Chinese love peace, you foreigners love war" propaganda.

I get it it was not funny. Unfortunately one side of my family were actual puritans landing in america and believe me in their eyes god hates you and we are all a piece of shit in gods eyes. I know that the puritans are an extreme off shoot but America did not celebrate Christmas or pagan holidays for a long time. 

[Stosh]

2 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

So the Tiger, in ancient China, "rose up" in the East...association of tiger and west that goes back to the neolithic.

So Suzanne Cahill  appears self contradictory. ..  as does

"So this is the mirrored alchemically - the male faces south, the left hand is yang as East, the right hand is yin as West. -"

since the tiger is the yang half of the combo. 

You see what I mean right? this is not a consistent association of the yang, with either east or west. This isnt a matter of my opinion , the associations have nothing to do with my choices.  Either the tiger is yang and associated with the west , or it is associated with the east. Unless those who are making the associations got confused sometime after the neolithic , and swapped it around. 

You can see Xi wang mu , sometimes with a deer or on a dragon , but where she is flanked with the pair, the tiger is on her left ,,,,  if the male faces south , the female Xi,  faces north , and so the tiger is in the west again but still on the left hand side. 

Regarding the neolithic  burial, which was male ...

 Xishuipo M45 is part of the Yangshao culture, a Chinese neolithic culture ... a tiger design to the right (west) and a dragon design to the left (east).

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Stosh

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, Stosh said:

So Suzanne Cahill  appears self contradictory. ..  as does

"So this is the mirrored alchemically - the male faces south, the left hand is yang as East, the right hand is yin as West. -"

since the tiger is the yang half of the combo. 

You see what I mean right? this is not a consistent association of the yang, with either east or west. This isnt a matter of my opinion , the associations have nothing to do with my choices.  Either the tiger is yang and associated with the west , or it is associated with the east. Unless those who are making the associations got confused sometime after the neolithic , and swapped it around. 

You can see Xi wang mu , sometimes with a deer or on a dragon , but where she is flanked with the pair, the tiger is on her left ,,,,  if the male faces south , the female Xi,  faces north , and so the tiger is in the west again but still on the left hand side. 

 

 

 

yes it is complicated - because you have lower body and upper body - and so it depends on the organ as well. For example the left EAR is tiger while the left eye is dragon. Why? Because the right side vagus nerve connects to the left side of the body but not the other way around - the left side vagus nerve does not connect to the right side of the brain. So with the eyes closed, the hearing becomes right side dominant which then connects over to the left side.

 

And so also with the eyes - the left eye is dragon, the right eye is tiger, but if you rotate the eyes - the direction of rotation then changes the direction that the shen-qi is directed in the body.

 

So for the lower body - for males - you want to sit in full lotus with the left leg on top - so that the Yang embraces the lower body (the yin). And for the upper body you want the right hand against the upper body - so that the yin embraces the yang.

 

My point being is that the yin and yang are together and yet exchange polarities. So going down the front - the Dragon goes into the Tiger - as mercury-semen. But then up the back - the white tiger then goes back down the front as the Yang within the Yin. So with the dragon going into the tiger - it is the yin within the yang. But going down - the qi is within the saliva (ambrosia - cerebrospinal fluid) - so that is the yin with the yang qi inside it. The yang qi has "substance" - and so this is called White Blood.

 

The pineal gland changes blood into cerebrospinal fluid - and then the shen-qi rises up from the heart and emanates out of the pineal gland.

So the process takes place internally but it is only when the light is seen externally - that the Absolute Void is achieved.

But the Absolute Void is actually the 5th dimension - that can not be seen. It is not the Light but the Yuan Qi.

Science has corroborated this place.

So - for example after the ancestral cavity is activated - the pineal gland is permanently magnetized because of all the blood turning into cerebrospinal fluid - it is increased from celibacy. As neuroscience states - "what fires together wires together" - or one researcher claims that the neurons are no longer "inhibited" - and so ...

 

the point being that when the Full Moon happens then meditation is ten times stronger - 3 days before and after the full moon - because you can feel the magnetic bliss as stronger in the pineal gland.

 

In other words - the external world is experienced holographically internally - there is a mirroring as the 5th dimension based on Shen or light and relativity as the void.

 

So this is why "diagnosis" of energy blockages has to also include healing - at the same time. Because when an energy healer detects a blockage - it is through the shen, via the pineal gland as a psychic transducer of the yin qi.

And so - if a person has a lot of repressed anger - the the healer's liver will get hot. If a person has a lot of sadness - then the healer's lungs will be affected as a blockage, etc.

 

And then there is precognition - a precognitive vision is "More real" than being awake - all the senses are more vivid. So as quantum biology has shown, in fact, for example the sense of smell is based on quantum frequency and phase - and so it is nonlocal. Nonlocal phase is superluminal - as the 5th dimension. So qigong masters can smell over the phone - as Jim Nance has described to me. And if a precognitive vision is more real than being awake - as I have had dreams or visions like this - it means us being awake right now is not the source of reality - with our eyes open.

 

So the Dao is an impersonal reality that is timeless but is accessed via Shen - think of black holes as the 5th dimension that stores information. The spin stores information via magnetic flux or Memristor as science calls it.

 

So then a qigong master can go into the Emptiness and see the past of a place and see the future of a place - because the foundation of reality is based on time, not space.

 

Growth happens from within - and so we have to go back to within to access the 5th dimension.

 

There is a time lag between external reality - at the speed of light - so with the eyes open, the subconscious is activated before the conscious brain can react - because the prefrontal cortex is a more recent addition to evolution, based on the illusion of linear time. Humans require REM dreaming to process all the subconscious holographic information - but meditation is the conscious "processing" of the subconscious - to turn the holographic reality into the superconsciousness. Whereas the subconscious triggers our nervous system as a photonic signal that triggers the electromagnetic process - this is the "Gate of MOrtality" becoming triggered so it is now "dilated." Unless that subconscious holographic trigger is reversed - then our DREAMS become very REAL indeed.

 

haha.

 

So females are yang internally and males are yin internally. The male has to learn to embrace the yin in order to achieve the T'ai Chi as the Dao.  And this brings us back to the  Vagus nerve and the Ear as the jing energy. So with the eyes open - then hearing is left ear dominant due to left brain dominance. But music - listening to frequency as melody - is right brain dominant. And so this is why "trance" as meditation is necessary. And then when the lower body energy is activated - then first the right side of the brain is cleared out - and the left side of the brain. Then the white tiger can descend to the heart - via the cerebrospinal fluid overflowing out of the sinus cavity. The lecithin myelinates the nerves so that a stronger charge can be stored up. Once the yin qi is back to a 16 year then it opens up the third eye - by the shen from the jing rising up.

 

For example when we wake up in the morning - if you meditate - you can feel the qi rise up along with the shen - and literally the shen is then going out of the brain and out of the eyes - and that is what it means to wake up!

 

But then our left brain is telling us to move - because like birds - the humans, we have our motor cortex very close to the auditory cortex. And so this is why in alchemy it states with Stillness - no movement - then the shen can return to the Emptiness - based on the superluminal phonon "yin matter" secret. The relativistic quantum "matter" is created from light - being reversed in time.

There's two directions to time - one is the "internal" clock of a particle - and the other is this 5th dimension that is superluminal, called the guiding wave or pilot wave. This guiding wave is the 5th dimension of the Universe - so it is beyond the 4 directions and beyond the sun/moon. But the 5th dimension has to be listened to with the eyes closed - to access it - to achieve this right brain dominance in silence. So even if a qigong master "goes into the Emptiness" - you will see their eyes get this blank stare - because they are turning the shen back around to the source in the heart - and it is the right side of the heart that is the source of the Yuan Qi - beyond death.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Stosh]

Right now we are talking about whether the associations are , , if yang ,goes with the tiger, and is associated with the east , lets keep a focus here.  Then we can see about all the rest of that.

Just pick the grouping of associations which you think is true,  for Chinese daoists, and we can check if they fit the historical associations or not. 

 

[thelerner]

15 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

The irony is you can choose any word you like and people will eventually find a way to deify it. Then you'll need to find a whole new word.

Yup, and once deified, dogma moves in and minds get closed. 

 

Lao Tzu, deified.  Buddha, deified.  Jesus, defied.   imo, We lose there humanity and our potential, when we do such. 

[vonkrankenhaus]

12 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

well, DDJ begs to differ. Of course it is a thing.

 

Notice what kind of "thing" they say this is:

"Formless", "reaching everywhere", "the Way or Course", etc.

 

So, unlike any and every "thing" you can see or name.

 

And notice stuff like this: "Heaven is great; Earth is great; and the (sage) king is also great."

 

Which means this is not a philosophical treatise so much as a socio-political one.

 

I would not look here for the best explanations of YinYang or Taoist cosmology, for example.

 

And this "thing" has no form - so no up/down, inside/outside, etc.

It is also infinite and already everywhere, which no other "thing" is.

 

And this is a "thing" which is described as "the Way or Course".

 

What other "way" is an actual "thing"? The way home isn't. The way to get along isn't.

 

Maybe I am an idiot for disagreeing with Lao Tzu, but I do not think Tao is a "thing".

 

Let me know what you think.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[thelerner]

It's gets so semantic..  Arguing over male or female is not that far from arguing if Tao is black or white.  Not that it can't be a pleasant diversion, but too much and you start moving into increasingly silly dogma or catma, as you will. 

[Stosh]

43 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Notice what kind of "thing" they say this is:

"Formless", "reaching everywhere", "the Way or Course", etc.

 

So, unlike any and every "thing" you can see or name.

 

And notice stuff like this: "Heaven is great; Earth is great; and the (sage) king is also great."

 

Which means this is not a philosophical treatise so much as a socio-political one.

 

I would not look here for the best explanations of YinYang or Taoist cosmology, for example.

 

And this "thing" has no form - so no up/down, inside/outside, etc.

It is also infinite and already everywhere, which no other "thing" is.

 

And this is a "thing" which is described as "the Way or Course".

 

What other "way" is an actual "thing"? The way home isn't. The way to get along isn't.

 

Maybe I am an idiot for disagreeing with Lao Tzu, but I do not think Tao is a "thing".

 

Let me know what you think.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

That depends on what the meaning of is is

[rene]

35 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Notice what kind of "thing" they say this is:

"Formless", "reaching everywhere", "the Way or Course", etc.

 

So, unlike any and every "thing" you can see or name.

 

And notice stuff like this: "Heaven is great; Earth is great; and the (sage) king is also great."

 

Which means this is not a philosophical treatise so much as a socio-political one.

 

I would not look here for the best explanations of YinYang or Taoist cosmology, for example.

 

And this "thing" has no form - so no up/down, inside/outside, etc.

It is also infinite and already everywhere, which no other "thing" is.

 

And this is a "thing" which is described as "the Way or Course".

 

What other "way" is an actual "thing"? The way home isn't. The way to get along isn't.

 

Maybe I am an idiot for disagreeing with Lao Tzu, but I do not think Tao is a "thing".

 

Let me know what you think.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

I dont think you are in disagreement with Laozi's ideas about Tao at all - rather with the words of the TTC, which everyone argues about, are incomplete, insufficent, because they're words...

 

The Tao that can be spoken...

 

Words dont work, and even Tao is just an idea. (-:

 

warm regards

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

but I do not think Tao is a "thing".

may be you will agree with this definition:

dao is qi--for example, Tao Hongjing in his Yangsheng Yanminglu23 cited Fuqijing24 (Breathtaking Scripture) that "dao is qi."

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, rene said:

Words dont work, and even Tao is just an idea. (-:

We could use the word "Singularity".  I have before.