Learning from Immortals

[opendao]

Usually I read TaoBums because of curiosity: what's happening in western Daoism, maybe new good people come up and so on... Usually it's all the same: fake dantians, microcosmic orbits and arrogant mediocrity... Now it's popular to pretend here to talk to Immortals, visit Lao Zi and other funny "experiences"...

 

Why there is no way to believe in all such words?

 

Very simple: those who learn from true Immortals, know the Tradition and can demonstrate the results, described in the Tradition as "achieving Immortality" or "achieving Dao".

 

continue here: https://medium.com/@northerndao/learning-from-immortals-710fb3302ef5

[grassmountiansage]

Couldnt have put it better myself.

[grassmountiansage]

With any authentic practice and any authentic pai one will eventually start to see buddhas taoist saints or gods that is assoicated with the lineage anyways it happens in time with authentic training.

 

What im not seeing is for a lineage to be thousands years old and authentic im not seeing a stand alone high level practice rare herbal formulas a lineage chart no mention of the master interesting healing methods or a break down of how the alchemy from their shan works.

Edited November 12, 2016 by grassmountiansage

[thelerner]

 

Usually I read TaoBums because of curiosity: what's happening in western Daoism, maybe new good people come up and so on... Usually it's all the same: fake dantians, microcosmic orbits and arrogant mediocrity... Now it's popular to pretend here to talk to Immortals, visit Lao Zi and other funny "experiences"...

 

Why there is no way to believe in all such words?

 

Very simple: those who learn from true Immortals, know the Tradition and can demonstrate the results, described in the Tradition as "achieving Immortality" or "achieving Dao".

You might still end up in exactly the same place.  People dissing what you write as coming from Fake Immortals.  Posts about fake techniques, fake dantiens, microcosmic orbits and there arrogant superiority.   While the threads here do talk about experiences extremely few mention talks to immortals or visiting Lao Zi.  That's what you've glomed onto. 

 

Instead of finding or creating and sustaining worthwhile threads, its easy to criticize members who's focus is elsewhere or considered not 'Tao' enough.  We do have heavy hitters here, people of experience and dedication, but they out numbered by those who are just starting out and want to learn more.  The Dao Bums want a medium where all are welcome.

 

You'll find if your site lasts long enough you'll be hit the same criticisms, you're giving us, that you're a fake, teaching wrong doctrines and not serious enough.  It comes with the territory.

 

I encourage those who are looking for hard core, to create threads in the Tao Discussion area (usually less fluff), protected areas or PPD's where they have more control and can find others and share there experiences, teach and learn.

[grassmountiansage]

You might still end up in exactly the same place.  People dissing what you write as coming from Fake Immortals.  Posts about fake techniques, fake dantiens, microcosmic orbits and there arrogant superiority.   While the threads here do talk about experiences extremely few mention talks to immortals or visiting Lao Zi.  That's what you've glomed onto. 

 

Instead of finding or creating and sustaining worthwhile threads, its easy to criticize members who's focus is elsewhere or considered not 'Tao' enough.  We do have heavy hitters here, people of experience and dedication, but they out numbered by those who are just starting out and want to learn more.  The Dao Bums want a medium where all are welcome.

 

You'll find if your site lasts long enough you'll be hit the same criticisms, you're giving us, that you're a fake, teaching wrong doctrines and not serious enough.  It comes with the territory.

 

I encourage those who are looking for hard core, to create threads in the Tao Discussion area (usually less fluff), protected areas or PPD's where they have more control and can find others and share there experiences, teach and learn.

 

Nah I think opendao is right on this one.

 

Theres nothing wrong with calling things as you see them if your in the same field.

[thelerner]

Nah I think opendao is right on this one.

 

Theres nothing wrong with calling things as you see them if your in the same field.

maybe, but inevitably he'll have the same lines thrown at him.   Law of IUS

 

<and there is certainly.. fluff on the board.. not necessarily a bad thing>

 

 

 

**Internet Unhappiness Syndrome

[Taoist Texts]

Nah I think opendao is right on this one.

 

Theres nothing wrong with calling things as you see them if your in the same field.

You mean in the same fake field?

[grassmountiansage]

You mean in the same fake field?

lol

[thelerner]

Please don't get me wrong.  I welcome the teachers, the sincere, the hardcore.  I'd love nothing more then to see serious threads and keep them ontrack.   That was the impetus for a new section where the original writer keeps full control of the thread. 

[dawei]

One can't understand another system till they have achieved some level with that system.  It is for that reason I don't criticize another's practice or path; it is not mine and therefore not mine to really comment too much on.

 

I appreciate those who have been willing to demonstrate or share their practices, even if I felt nothing from it.  It is not so much about whether I can feel from their practice as it is not mine, but when I do I recognize there is something our energy shares in common.

[Aetherous]

It demonstrates a lack of virtue to disparage other traditions.

[opendao]

for thelerner:

Feel free to criticise Wu-Liu Pai as being fake, people desperately have been trying that for 15 years   But there is a simple fact: results in the School and its western branch are good enough to be sure to say what works and what not. And we're open for any critical approach from hard-to-find people with similar or greater results.

 

for Dawei: you have an illusion of alternatives in Daoism, but long term practical researches show that there are no "other systems": or you understand the Tradition and get results, or you are sideways. There are a few Schools in Daoist Tradition, some in Chan Buddhism, some in other parts of the world, so it's not limited to one school. But the Method is the same. And Results are the same. So when "other systems" don't follow the methodology and don't get the milestone results, they are obviously out of the Tradition. Even if they resonate with your energy, it doesn't mean they have any value. Especially for newbies here...

 

for Aetherous:

Disparage other Traditions shows obviously lack of good, but telling truth about fake homemade "esoteric systems" is what all great Teachers in the Daoist Tradition did. As a westerner you don't like it, and I can understand why, but it's just a part of our cultural code. All Traditions are based on the ancient cultural code, it has a practical sense. Keyword is "sincerity", try to see from this angle.

[Ish]

Quote

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Edited April 4, 2018 by Ish

[dawei]

for Dawei: you have an illusion of alternatives in Daoism, but long term practical researches show that there are no "other systems": or you understand the Tradition and get results, or you are sideways. There are a few Schools in Daoist Tradition, some in Chan Buddhism, some in other parts of the world, so it's not limited to one school. But the Method is the same. And Results are the same. So when "other systems" don't follow the methodology and don't get the milestone results, they are obviously out of the Tradition. Even if they resonate with your energy, it doesn't mean they have any value. Especially for newbies here...

 

I never mentioned 'Daoism'.  Dao is infinite paths... I mentioned paths. 

[SeekerOfHealing]

I know Wu Liu Pai is legit lineage.

 

First thing I saw their "mysterious" teacher Dymitri.

Second I know students who have great results and attaining high stages. (like human immortal under Dimitri)

 

All their students are very legitimate people and do not share their methods to public. Most of them are pretty well spoken and pretty well cultivated from basic steps.

 

So they are definitely real school based on my research on Dao schools (which I'm actually seeking to click-in).

 

The cons of this school that it's pretty traditional and you can not jump in into alchemy without doing their daogong (which is alchemical qigong) and you need to follow laid up path - this can be pro or con depends of person character.

 

You need to learn Russian really and be have real De in the heart. They want pass methods to the true students and highest teachings to people but you need to be 'that' person how have good qualities. I would say this school is very elite. Like Harvard or Yale of the regular schools so obviously other will be looked a little down spreading their (false or so called false) teachings - which sometimes can be reasonable as we have control fake doctors but we do not have control in fake school. They are part of 白雲觀 so anybody who claim this school is false just shows that sadly have no idea about Daoism besides personal judgement.

 

I really like to read Wu Liu Pai materials. Criticism of other schools is important to bring what is the best out of them.

 

I'm just researcher on lineages but I can tell this one is definitely most authentic. If I would have more money/knowing russian I would definitely jump into this school.

 

skype sessions are also pretty con because those things you can learn on video (like daogong) etc.

 

The only thing I can say that this school need better management in general. Rather the build walls I would build bridges and trust other people little more so people can start with alchemical methods without worry.

 

All the best for Wu Liu Pai.

[Aetherous]

for Aetherous:

Disparage other Traditions shows obviously lack of good, but telling truth about fake homemade "esoteric systems" is what all great Teachers in the Daoist Tradition did. As a westerner you don't like it, and I can understand why, but it's just a part of our cultural code. All Traditions are based on the ancient cultural code, it has a practical sense. Keyword is "sincerity", try to see from this angle.

What I said stands.

 

Some of us don't appreciate sleazy, con-artist marketing tactics at this forum, which include saying that everything else out there is fraudulent except (what a coincidence) your school, which (what a coincidence) has a hefty price tag. Having had a tiny bit of experience in your school, learning some of daogong and shengong, I am assured that the glorious advertising and promotion is false. It's just another school which does its own unique thing. If people like it, good for them.

 

Enough with the condescension toward other traditions, which you have no experience in.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Aetherous

[thelerner]

for thelerner:

Feel free to criticise Wu-Liu Pai as being fake, people desperately have been trying that for 15 years   But there is a simple fact: results in the School and its western branch are good enough to be sure to say what works and what not. And we're open for any critical approach from hard-to-find people with similar or greater results.

 

Again, no criticism, I'd love to see discussions on it, criticism free on all ends.   I think it can be very instructive to everyone to know how rigorous it is, ie how long daily sitting lasts.  Seemingly little things like breathwork during meditation.  Cultural things, how it interprets Buddhism and any unusual beliefs that add to cultivation in unique ways. 

Please don't get me wrong.  I welcome the teachers, the sincere, the hardcore.  I'd love nothing more then to see serious threads and keep them ontrack.   That was the impetus for a new section where the original writer keeps full control of the thread. 

[Vajra Fist]

Retracted

Edited November 12, 2016 by Vajra Fist

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[opendao]

Again, no criticism, I'd love to see discussions on it, criticism free on all ends.   I think it can be very instructive to everyone to know how rigorous it is, ie how long daily sitting lasts.  Seemingly little things like breathwork during meditation.  Cultural things, how it interprets Buddhism and any unusual beliefs that add to cultivation in unique ways. 

 

Probably later. Let's come to some understanding about results first and respond to critics 

[opendao]

Can you?

 

It's not so easy to find someone who has visual signs of achievements. Basically, it's as hard as to find a true Teacher.

 

I've seen some interesting things, for me it's important that other know such things exist, so they can research further.

[opendao]

I'm not sure if you already said it before, but what are the demonstrable results in your school that you speak of?

 

It was discussed a few times here and there... Shortly speaking, yangshen and tianxian. 

[opendao]

Retracted

 

Why? It's an important thing to understand, why in Daoism it looks so for you, while in Buddhism it looks different for you... But if retracted then retracted. Maybe it's not a proper time yet. Cheers.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells