effilang

Xiao Yao Pai & Xiantian Dao Yin Shu - [OFFICIAL THREAD]

196 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, effilang said:

 

FlowingHands, didn't you declare in former posts here that you were not coming back to this thread, several times? - Yet you are here again, trolling, misleading others and trying to set up shop here again with a platform to launch attacks and make baseless and unsubstantiated accusations?

 

You can't stop yourself can you?

 

For someone who proclaims to be so well versed in Daoism, you really lack restraint and morals.

If I wasn't sure that you were a troll before, I'm convinced of it now through your last post - more than ever.

 

Here is why:

You started an independent thread with the purpose of making libellous pronouncements against the origins of our school and attempted to substantiate the accusation that our tradition is a result of Mao's cultural revolution, placing us under the umbrella of many unauthentic arts. You fell flat on your face with your arguments; yet you are here now saying that, I had no solid answers? - Sorry, SFH - I only had the truth.

 

As I can see from what is left of your pontificated thread, you've conveniently deleted most of your posts; yet you talk to me about solidity?

And let me quote you further from your own and very same thread, after I refuted your accusations in a post on this thread which you can read here:

 


Honestly fella, you're starting to look desperate, have some dignity.

Haven't we had enough of this admins?

 

No not at all fella, you basically have been immoral, you deleted my posts because I showed that what you were doing could not be from the source that you claim and then I discover that you are boasting about the fact that I showed you up and your mixed bag of shen gong, with Buddhist hands and other techniques that were not even the slightest bit Daoist and certainly an originator like Tai Sung would not use these, as these were well after his time and then say that I took a 1970's swing at you and failed. I'm afraid it is you who has failed, you have more importantly failed to impress me the student of Tai Sung Lao Jun who has received his teachings for over thirty five years. I know what he teaches and how he teaches and what his system is and it is not some mixed bag of tricks that has been borrowed from other religions and other practices.

Either take it or shut up whinging.

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

No not at all fella, you basically have been immoral, you deleted my posts.

 

No I haven't. I was within my right to delete your posts and the administration of the website supported me in my actions. You are wilfully being ignorant to serve your false narratives. I'm sorry that you're butthurt, but If you have or had a problem with it, which apparently you still do, you can discuss it with them.

 

Quote

because I showed that what you were doing could not be from the source that you claim and then I discover that you are boasting about the fact that I showed you up and your mixed bag of shen gong, with Buddhist hands and other techniques that were not even the slightest bit Daoist and certainly an originator like Tai Sung would not use these, as these were well after his time and then say that I took a 1970's swing at you and failed

 

This is all very nice, but anyone with half a brain who reads my posts above and follows the thread you started and my reply to it, can make up their own minds.

 

Quote

I'm afraid it is you who has failed, you have more importantly failed to impress me the student of Tai Sung Lao Jun who has received his teachings for over thirty five years. I know what he teaches and how he teaches and what his system is and it is not some mixed bag of tricks that has been borrowed from other religions and other practices.

 

More importantly, LOL?!

Come down from your high horse, Sir. - I have no interest in you, beyond protecting the reputation of my school.

 

Quote

Either take it or shut up whinging.

 

That is abusive. No, I will not accept your experiences as law and "shutup".

You're just going to have to learn to live with that.

 

Toodles.

Edited by effilang

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1 hour ago, effilang said:

 

No I haven't. I was within my right to delete your posts and the administration of the website supported me in my actions. You are wilfully being ignorant to serve your false narratives. I'm sorry that you're butthurt, but If you have or had a problem with it, which apparently you still do, you can discuss it with them.

 

 

This is all very nice, but anyone with half a brain who reads my posts above and follows the thread you started and my reply to it, can make up their own minds.

 

 

More importantly, LOL?!

Come down from your high horse, Sir. - I have no interest in you, beyond protecting the reputation of my school.

 

 

That is abusive. No, I will not accept your experiences as law and "shutup".

You're just going to have to learn to live with that.

 

Toodles.

 

The first thing that put me on to your case was the fact that while you were in your diapers I was accepted as a student of Tai Sung Lao Jun. In a proper Daoist school a senior student of the same master is given the respect and deferred to straight away, but you, no, your teaching doesn't hold with that and you quite blatantly and easily argued with me showing no respect or deferential attitude. I sent you a pm saying that I wasn't going to comment any further on your thread, which you didn't read and deleted straight away, which you told me, that you had done this and by doing so,  anything I could say was of no value.

Well I will tell you now exactly what is happening to you and all the others who get initiated.

You are at the time given some fa by the teacher in the name only of Tai Sung Lao Jun. The teacher does not go into a trance of the divine master. The fa mixes with your own energy and so when you concentrate, your own energy takes over and is moving and teaching you. You must remember that the mind absorbs millions of things every second, although consciously we can't remember 99% of them. So when you stimulate your own mind and soul you can produce all sorts of illusions and that's why you can produce a shen gong that actually has very little to do with real shen gong and why it has many Buddhist  hand and techniques. Because it comes from your own mind and not from an external spirit. Of course once into this cycle of mind/spirit practice one goes deeper into it and therefore it is self convincing of its authenticity, but really it is your own mind that is teaching you.

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SFH. Give it a rest if you have any dignity at all.

 

For the nth time, I'm genuinely not interested in your propaganda.

 

If you want to put your money where your mouth is,  and prove to everyone here that we are a fake, then I invite you to our next initiation where you can conduct your investigation and if you like, even test your power against ours - if it pleases you. I have good HD digital recording equipment and will be happy to document the whole thing to present it here as evidence for public viewing.

 

If you give me ample time, I will even fundraise your ticket and or visa fees to accommodate you to carry out an official investigation.

Until you accept that invitation and demonstrate a willingness to backup your empty talk; you're just a forum troll to me with zero integrity.

 

Have a pleasant evening.

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MOD TEAM NOTICE

 

It is time to agree to disagree and move on from this discussion.

No person has the right to demand that their "way", abilities or tradition be recognized as superior to another.

There is no hierarchy on TDB.

 

On September 23, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Trunk said:

TDBs' Conversational Context:
1. At TDBs member participation in conversation is non-hierarchical.  Meaning, members have equal ability to talk regardless of level of knowledge, achievement, or status / credentials of any kind.  TDBs has an underlying ethic of valuing the communication of each person.

2. TDBs most basic rules about conversation are around civility (leaving enough flexibility for lively debate).  A moderator's basic role is to moderate members' uncivility toward each other in coversation.  Members support this process by 'reporting' offending posts.

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/31825-thedaobums-three-foundations-eclectic-egalitarian-civil/

 

 

………..

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If I recall right, you asked for "showy" moves for that video? 

 

And what can be more showy and recognized than the old one finger chan palm move? Everybody have seen shaolin, in one way or the other. 

 

I guess, if you did a similar one now,  the even more recognized one finger mudra "golden phoenix tail feather strings bow" would be in it, slightly hidden so the mods wouldn't see it. :ph34r:

 

No,  wait, that would be if I posted a video.

Sorry. 

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On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 3:03 PM, Mudfoot said:

If I recall right, you asked for "showy" moves for that video? 

 

And what can be more showy and recognized than the old one finger chan palm move? Everybody have seen shaolin, in one way or the other. 

 

I guess, if you did a similar one now,  the even more recognized one finger mudra "golden phoenix tail feather strings bow" would be in it, slightly hidden so the mods wouldn't see it. :ph34r:

 

No,  wait, that would be if I posted a video.

Sorry. 

 

Immortals are beyond 'showy' things and would not make such an exhibition. The basis of their principles are that of humbleness and definitely not making a show. The Chan hand is not part of the Daoist remit. I have never been taught this, even though one of my masters is a Buddha (Chi Tien Da Shen). Over the thirty five years of teaching me many styles of martial art, this has never occurred even in one style that came from Shaolin that he taught me. The Chan hand is relatively a new hand development.

 

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5 hours ago, flowing hands said:

Over the thirty five years of teaching me many styles of martial art, this has never occurred even in one style that came from Shaolin that he taught me. The Chan hand is relatively a new hand development.

 

I have only encountered it in adjunct exercises, like Iron Hand and power enhancing exercises. 

In the Yi Zhi Chan, it doesn’t look like that. 

I have no experience of being taught by immortals, but evidently there are mixed opinions about how they choose to teach. 

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On ‎14‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 9:16 PM, Kar3n said:

MOD TEAM NOTICE

 

It is time to agree to disagree and move on from this discussion.

No person has the right to demand that their "way", abilities or tradition be recognized as superior to another.

There is no hierarchy on TDB.

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/31825-thedaobums-three-foundations-eclectic-egalitarian-civil/

 

 

………..

 Ah... but Effilang has chosen not to value my communication or my opinion, by dissolving any posts that were incriminating to his end. It was he who decided of his own free will to delete a pm unread, that I sent him and banning any communication from me. I said in this pm that I would not post anymore on his thread. But he deliberately devalued the communication between us, so he left me with no choice, but to continue till my point was made and recognised.

 

I, as the head of my sect,  have not the slightest interest in Effilang or his school, or what he and his school wish to believe and practice, it is up to them. But when my teacher tells me that he has nothing to do with this school and like many, it is only in name, I have the duty to defend my teachers good name and reputation. He is one of the highest Immortals in the Heavens and he just can't be ordered around and simply be made to take on new students because he is told to, like some dumb servant. That is simply senseless  and against thousands of years of tried and tested traditional training and teaching. No human Sifu worth their weight would do so, so why would an Immortal of such great standing act like a dumb idiot?

 

So this is my last words on the subject.

Edited by flowing hands
typo
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Ok, a question not related to the thread (sorry for that) pops up in my mind. 

 

Why are spiritual immortals,who are reluctant to teach mortals, spending time teaching a seasoned martial artist more martial arts, instead on focusing on the finer points on spiritual practice? 

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2 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

Ok, a question not related to the thread (sorry for that) pops up in my mind. 

 

Why are spiritual immortals,who are reluctant to teach mortals, spending time teaching a seasoned martial artist more martial arts, instead on focusing on the finer points on spiritual practice? 

 

This off topic and a personal question you may ask me in a pm.

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Off topic is the name of the game here on TDB. But I was curious rather than interested.

 

Getting instructions from someone in the tradition I follow,  pre- generation 16, would be really interesting, but since that isn't likely,...... 

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On 09/09/2017 at 1:31 PM, flowing hands said:

Immortals are beyond 'showy' things and would not make such an exhibition. The basis of their principles are that of humbleness and definitely not making a show. The Chan hand is not part of the Daoist remit. I have never been taught this, even though one of my masters is a Buddha (Chi Tien Da Shen). Over the thirty five years of teaching me many styles of martial art, this has never occurred even in one style that came from Shaolin that he taught me. The Chan hand is relatively a new hand development.

 

Ah... but Effilang has chosen not to value my communication or my opinion, by dissolving any posts that were incriminating to his end. It was he who decided of his own free will to delete a pm unread, that I sent him and banning any communication from me. I said in this pm that I would not post anymore on his thread. But he deliberately devalued the communication between us, so he left me with no choice, but to continue till my point was made and recognised.

 

I, as the head of my sect,  have not the slightest interest in Effilang or his school, or what he and his school wish to believe and practice, it is up to them. But when my teacher tells me that he has nothing to do with this school and like many, it is only in name, I have the duty to defend my teachers good name and reputation. He is one of the highest Immortals in the Heavens and he just can't be ordered around and simply be made to take on new students because he is told to, like some dumb servant. That is simply senseless  and against thousands of years of tried and tested traditional training and teaching. No human Sifu worth their weight would do so, so why would an Immortal of such great standing act like a dumb idiot?

 

So this is my last words on the subject.

 

In reality, every Shen Xian has their own personality; just like we have different characters as human. We are all unique. You will not lose your personality through spiritual cultivation; this is something most people are often concerned about when they begin practice. Your emotions will not disappear, neither will your ability to feel and express them. What happens as a result of good practice, briefly put, is that our emotions stop being in control of us, while simultaneously; powerful emotions like anger, jealousy and hatred are progressively dissolved through the accumulation of wisdom, compassion and the cultivation of self responsibility and karmic intelligence. All these processes and more, take place as a product of internal cultivation.

 

The immortals we work with in Xiao Yao Pai, are not beyond everything; on the contrary, they have cultivated to the point where they are everything, or nothing, depending on what they wish to experience. Therefore in our tradition, you will find that our Hu Fa Shen, can be funny and humorous, stern and strict, they experience joy and love - and can even be martially assertive if we are under attack.

 

Our school is called "Xiao Yao", because this is the primary characteristic that is expressed by those whom have been practising for some time. Every Dao Yu (initiated) becomes more "Xiao Yao" as their practice progresses. If you can connect to the spiritual head of our school; Tai Shang Lao Jun, the first thing you will feel is his cheerful, easy going, carefree and happy energy; it almost feels like a warm and innocent childlike joy.

 

One of my teachers, Immortal Jiu Tian Xuan Niu, often dances gracefully during my practice sessions with her; her beautiful dancing might also be considered "showy", but that would only be because they fail to understand the energy of the "Xiao Yao" concept that permeates the entire heritage of our tradition.

 

If an immortal from our school therefore wanted to dance, or perform a flashy form, make jokes, demonstrate compassion, humour, distaste or even be grumpy; they can : )

 

The level that our teachers are at, allows them to be or express whatever they wish. Why? Because they have transcended notions of showyness and exhibitionism; and overcome the human mindset that would have them worry about how others perceive their actions when they chose to act. No, when our teachers want to express something, they do it.

The ability to express one's self in such a way, is also a type of power. Perhaps not the sort of power most people look for, but one that we hold in high regard in our school; it is the manifest power of the concept of "Xiao Yao", acquired by the transcendence of the mundane mind, that is responsible for inhibiting the unabridged expression of the limitless divine "wholy" spirit; Yuan Shen.

 

I can confidently say, that if anyone works with a spirit which worries about how they will be perceived or criticised, especially by the likes of a human; is dealing with spirits that have not yet grown into the mind of the Dao or acquired the wisdom of non-dualistic existence. Be weary of such teachers for they are likely with you entirely out of personal interests.

 

Furthermore, like Mudfoot mentioned, I specifically made a request to my Hu Fa Shen, Jin Xiao Fa, to move me more during that session in a way that was, yes, more showy; as the video was created as a demonstration of the level of interactivity and physicality achievable through a connection to an Immortal while practising Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu.

 

What a lot of people don't know is that one of my primary objectives here in the West, is the marriage of Spiritual Cultivation with Natural Sciences.

My aim in this lifetime and very much so in the next decade, is to create a bridge between the two fields and usher in a new era of possibilities in the investigation and examination of non-physical and multidimensional energetic phenomena, currently undetectable by modern day instruments.

 

This is one of the first times in our history that, a method for the direct experience and empirical observation of spiritual phenomena has become available, and I very much intend to make certain that this opportunity will become an integral part of scientific endeavours in the fields of quantum physics, ontological research, spiritual intelligence, natural sciences, and an integral part in the collective evolution of humanity.

 

We are making great progress already. I don't have the words to explain to you what it feels like to meet devout atheists, passionate monotheistic followers, and modern day graduates in the fields of Physics, Psychology, Medicine, Engineering and Biology - and then have the pleasure of watching them connect to one of our school's Shen Xian and experience the rewiring of their belief systems in real-time as their body and energy begins to be moved and guided by their Hu Fa Shen. It's life and belief altering.

 

We are literally, right now, working to and promoting the spiritual evolution of human kind through a reproducible, experience-based tool, that is Xiantian Dao Yin Shu - and from it generating wide spread consensus experiences that can be corroborated by large groups of individuals, regardless of association, creed, belief system and so forth.

 

Then I come here, to this thread, and I see some people beating their chests and professing their academic superiority, claiming exclusivity and entitlement and making accusations and allegations without offering any proof - and honestly guys, I just fucking take a deep breath and sigh.

 

As I've always said, to each their own, BUT don't come here trying to push your agenda and your experiences on me; I do not accept them, I have made that clear numerous times, but despite that, unlike you, I do not visit other people's threads to make accusations and relentlessly attempt to hammer in my own experiences. If you have your own views and experiences, keep them, they are yours. Mine are different and I do not agree with yours, and since you fail to provide any objective proof of your statements during every one of your tantrums; I will always just consider you a troll with an inability to control himself. And like I told you, a long, long, long, long time ago, SFH. I'm genuinely not interested in you or what you have to say anymore and particularly not in the way you say it. Yeah, that also means don't send me PM's and harass me.

 

Now, and this wasn't something I was going to reply to, because I just figured I would let you ferment in your ignorance, but alas, there's one thing I hate more than ignorance and it's misinforming the masses, knowingly or unknowingly - so I'm going to answer your question about what you refer to as "One Finger Zen Palm".

 

In the years that I've had the displeasure of communicating with you, I've noticed a trend; your mind is very much tied up in concepts; that is, superficial names, ideas and symbols that correspond to unified energetic laws of nature that are independent of human conceptualisation. So for the sake of education, let's do a simple exercise in mental purgation, like I often have to do with new candidates. Let's examine the following concept; "One Finger Zen Palm":

 

The origin of the concept may or may not be attributed to a certain group of people ie Buddhists - that is still a matter of debate; although we do know they certainly popularised it.

 

Now, let's remove the concept and it's corresponding association to Zen. 

What are we left with? - We are left with, "One Finger Palm".

 

Can "One Finger Palm" still carry out it's underlying energetic purpose if it's not "Zen" anymore? - It sure can.

 

Why? - Because the foundational basis for the movement and interplay of our body's internal energy is not dictated by mental concepts. Yes, mental concepts can affect our energy and vice-versa, but they are not responsible for the basic blueprint that determines how certain qualities and types of energy move in the body and through which mediums they express themselves. What dictates that is a product of natural evolution.

 

What is the underlying purpose of "One Finger Palm" in human cultivation: the underlying purpose of "One Finger Palm" is to stimulate, focus, energise and tonify our body's energy through the employment of finger and palm configurations that form a hand seal.

 

A hand seal or mudra can be employed by any human being to modify the energy within their body's electromagnetic channel network and they have been in use by the Taoist clans and schools, both public and private - for a very long time. It doesn't matter what your race is or what belief you subscribe to, or if you're Zen, Taoist, Christian or Muslim. Those are man made concepts, that come after the energetic formation of the viscera and energetic architecture of the body, at a time when the conceptual mind has no power to create any of these dualistic notions you speak of.

 

In energy work to do with the human body, as well as in, would you know it; Taoism - the creases on the fingers can be activated by touching them with the thumb or bending the fingers which directly affect the corresponding energetic fields in the body. Similarly extending particular fingers will, among other things, stimulate the energy in the corresponding meridian and organ to manifest an intended effect.

 

It doesn't matter what concepts you have in your head, that prevent you from seeing things from a greater perspective beyond your own experiences, when it comes to the energetic processes of the body, no one school or people have exclusivity, not you, not Taoism, not Buddhism. This is a human practice.

 

Someone who claims to have been practising for 35 years, should know this stuff. It is elementary esoteric Taoism.

 

The level at which our Hu Fa Shen, are allows them to operate beyond these restricting concepts, which again seem to be the root of most of your limiting and self defeating beliefs.

 

When they interact with a Dao Yu (initiated) during the course of a Liangong (cultivation practice); they don't look at you as a Buddhist, or a Christian, or a Muslim or a Taoist; they go deeper and interface directly with the basal energy of the student in order to bring about internal change - and when necessary for those possessing a mind that has been made rigid and heavy by emotions and concepts; they either use lessons throughout the day to target specific limiting beliefs and refine them in order to bring about wisdom, or occasionally, directly interact with the sense based energy cluster to release the negative concepts and bring about a state of naturalness and tranquility.

 

I really wish onto you that you will learn to look beyond the well of your own experiences to realise that there is an endless sea around you.

Perhaps even your sense of exclusivity, entitlement and authority may be a test on your path.

 

Good luck to you with that work - and as I have said before, If you ever want to put your money where your mouth is, I invite you to one of our initiations, where you can test your power and your beliefs against ours. I will be happy to record it and post it on here for free. Or, you know, you can just continue with your MO here and make unsubstantiated claims and accusations without ever providing any credible or verifiable objective proof. If you choose to the the latter, please make a thread elsewhere and litter it with as much of your sentiment as fills your heart, but kindly stop coming on my thread and regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. You're a grown man, have some dignity..

Oh, wait, you did make that thread already, if I recall. I guess nobody was paying you attention there.

 

On 09/09/2017 at 1:31 PM, flowing hands said:

So this is my last words on the subject.

 

I've heard that before, several times actually, but you keep coming back.

Let's see if you're a man of your word and actually have the dignity to follow through this time.

 

PS: For the record, If anyone wants to ask me anything about Xiao Yao Pai, you can ask me here, no need to PM me.

Edited by effilang
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49 minutes ago, effilang said:

 

In reality, every Shen Xian has their own personality; just like we have different characters as human. We are all unique. You will not lose your personality through spiritual cultivation; this is something most people are often concerned about when they begin practice. Your emotions will not disappear, neither will your ability to feel and express them. What happens as a result of good practice, briefly put, is that our emotions stop being in control of us, while simultaneously; powerful emotions like anger, jealousy and hatred are progressively dissolved through the accumulation of wisdom, compassion and the cultivation of self responsibility and karmic intelligence. All these processes and more, take place as a product of internal cultivation.

 

The immortals we work with in Xiao Yao Pai, are not beyond everything; on the contrary, they have cultivated to the point where they are everything, or nothing, depending on what they wish to experience. Therefore in our tradition, you will find that our Hu Fa Shen, can be funny and humorous, stern and strict, they experience joy and love - and can even be martially assertive if we are under attack.

 

Our school is called "Xiao Yao", because this is the primary characteristic that is expressed by those whom have been practising for some time. Every Dao Yu (initiated) becomes more "Xiao Yao" as their practice progresses. If you can connect to the spiritual head of our school; Tai Shang Lao Jun, the first thing you will feel is his cheerful, easy going, carefree and happy energy; it almost feels like a warm and innocent childlike joy.

 

One of my teachers, Immortal Jiu Tian Xuan Niu, often dances gracefully during my practice sessions with her; her beautiful dancing might also be considered "showy", but that would only be because they fail to understand the energy of the "Xiao Yao" concept that permeates the entire heritage of our tradition.

 

If an immortal from our school therefore wanted to dance, or perform a flashy form, make jokes, demonstrate compassion, humour, distaste or even be grumpy; they can : )

 

The level that our teachers are at, allows them to be or express whatever they wish. Why? Because they have transcended notions of showyness and exhibitionism; and overcome the human mindset that would have them worry about how others perceive their actions when they chose to act. No, when our teachers want to express something, they do it.

The ability to express one's self in such a way, is also a type of power. Perhaps not the sort of power most people look for, but one that we hold in high regard in our school; it is the manifest power of the concept of "Xiao Yao", acquired by the transcendence of the mundane mind, that is responsible for inhibiting the unabridged expression of the limitless divine "wholy" spirit; Yuan Shen.

 

I can confidently say, that if anyone works with a spirit which worries about how they will be perceived or criticised, especially by the likes of a human; is dealing with spirits that have not yet grown into the mind of the Dao or acquired the wisdom of non-dualistic existence. Be weary of such teachers for they are likely with you entirely out of personal interests.

 

Furthermore, like Mudfoot mentioned, I specifically made a request to my Hu Fa Shen, Jin Xiao Fa, to move me more during that session in a way that was, yes, more showy; as the video was created as a demonstration of the level of interactivity and physicality achievable through a connection to an Immortal while practising Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu.

 

What a lot of people don't know is that one of my primary objectives here in the West, is the marriage of Spiritual Cultivation with Natural Sciences.

My aim in this lifetime and very much so in the next decade, is to create a bridge between the two fields and usher in a new era of possibilities in the investigation and examination of non-physical and multidimensional energetic phenomena, currently undetectable by modern day instruments.

 

This is one of the first times in our history that, a method for the direct experience and empirical observation of spiritual phenomena has become available, and I very much intend to make certain that this opportunity will become an integral part of scientific endeavours in the fields of quantum physics, ontological research, spiritual intelligence, natural sciences, and an integral part in the collective evolution of humanity.

 

We are making great progress already. I don't have the words to explain to you what it feels like to meet devout atheists, passionate monotheistic followers, and modern day graduates in the fields of Physics, Psychology, Medicine, Engineering and Biology - and then have the pleasure of watching them connect to one of our school's Shen Xian and experience the rewiring of their belief systems in real-time as their body and energy begins to be moved and guided by their Hu Fa Shen. It's life and belief altering.

 

We are literally, right now, working to and promoting the spiritual evolution of human kind through a reproducible, experience-based tool, that is Xiantian Dao Yin Shu - and from it generating wide spread consensus experiences that can be corroborated by large groups of individuals, regardless of association, creed, belief system and so forth.

 

Then I come here, to this thread, and I see some people beating their chests and professing their academic superiority, claiming exclusivity and entitlement and making accusations and allegations without offering any proof - and honestly guys, I just fucking take a deep breath and sigh.

 

As I've always said, to each their own, BUT don't come here trying to push your agenda and your experiences on me; I do not accept them, I have made that clear numerous times, but despite that, unlike you, I do not visit other people's threads to make accusations and relentlessly attempt to hammer in my own experiences. If you have your own views and experiences, keep them, they are yours. Mine are different and I do not agree with yours, and since you fail to provide any objective proof of your statements during every one of your tantrums; I will always just consider you a troll with an inability to control himself. And like I told you, a long, long, long, long time ago, SFH. I'm genuinely not interested in you or what you have to say anymore and particularly not in the way you say it. Yeah, that also means don't send me PM's and harass me.

 

Now, and this wasn't something I was going to reply to, because I just figured I would let you ferment in your ignorance, but alas, there's one thing I hate more than ignorance and it's misinforming the masses, knowingly or unknowingly - so I'm going to answer your question about what you refer to as "One Finger Zen Palm".

 

In the years that I've had the displeasure of communicating with you, I've noticed a trend; your mind is very much tied up in concepts; that is, superficial names, ideas and symbols that correspond to unified energetic laws of nature that are independent of human conceptualisation. So for the sake of education, let's do a simple exercise in mental purgation, like I often have to do with new candidates. Let's examine the following concept; "One Finger Zen Palm":

 

The origin of the concept may or may not be attributed to a certain group of people ie Buddhists - that is still a matter of debate; although we do know they certainly popularised it.

 

Now, let's remove the concept and it's corresponding association to Zen. 

What are we left with? - We are left with, "One Finger Palm".

 

Can "One Finger Palm" still carry out it's underlying energetic purpose if it's not "Zen" anymore? - It sure can.

 

Why? - Because the foundational basis for the movement and interplay of our body's internal energy is not dictated by mental concepts. Yes, mental concepts can affect our energy and vice-versa, but they are not responsible for the basic blueprint that determines how certain qualities and types of energy move in the body and through which mediums they express themselves. What dictates that is a product of natural evolution.

 

What is the underlying purpose of "One Finger Palm" in human cultivation: the underlying purpose of "One Finger Palm" is to stimulate, focus, energise and tonify our body's energy through the employment of finger and palm configurations that form a hand seal.

 

A hand seal or mudra can be employed by any human being to modify the energy within their body's electromagnetic channel network and they have been in use by the Taoist clans and schools, both public and private - for a very long time. It doesn't matter what your race is or what belief you subscribe to, or if you're Zen, Taoist, Christian or Muslim. Those are man made concepts, that come after the energetic formation of the viscera and energetic architecture of the body, at a time when the conceptual mind has no power to create any of these dualistic notions you speak of.

 

In energy work to do with the human body, as well as in, would you know it; Taoism - the creases on the fingers can be activated by touching them with the thumb or bending the fingers which directly affect the corresponding energetic fields in the body. Similarly extending particular fingers will, among other things, stimulate the energy in the corresponding meridian and organ to manifest an intended effect.

 

It doesn't matter what concepts you have in your head, that prevent you from seeing things from a greater perspective beyond your own experiences, when it comes to the energetic processes of the body, no one school or people have exclusivity, not you, not Taoism, not Buddhism. This is a human practice.

 

Someone who claims to have been practising for 35 years, should know this stuff. It is elementary esoteric Taoism.

 

The level at which our Hu Fa Shen, are allows them to operate beyond these restricting concepts, which again seem to be the root of most of your limiting and self defeating beliefs.

 

When they interact with a Dao Yu (initiated) during the course of a Liangong (cultivation practice); they don't look at you as a Buddhist, or a Christian, or a Muslim or a Taoist; they go deeper and interface directly with the basal energy of the student in order to bring about internal change - and when necessary for those possessing a mind that has been made rigid and heavy by emotions and concepts; they either use lessons throughout the day to target specific limiting beliefs and refine them in order to bring about wisdom, or occasionally, directly interact with the sense based energy cluster to release the negative concepts and bring about a state of naturalness and tranquility.

 

I really wish onto you that you will learn to look beyond the well of your own experiences to realise that there is an endless sea around you.

Perhaps even your sense of exclusivity, entitlement and authority may be a test on your path.

 

Good luck to you with that work - and as I have said before, If you ever want to put your money where your mouth is, I invite you to one of our initiations, where you can test your power and your beliefs against ours. I will be happy to record it and post it on here for free. Or, you know, you can just continue with your MO here and make unsubstantiated claims and accusations without ever providing any credible or verifiable objective proof. If you choose to the the latter, please make a thread elsewhere and litter it with as much of your sentiment as fills your heart, but kindly stop coming on my thread and regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. You're a grown man, have some dignity..

Oh, wait, you did make that thread already, if I recall. I guess nobody was paying you attention there.

 

 

I've heard that before, several times actually, but you keep coming back.

Let's see if you're a man of your word and actually have the dignity to follow through this time.

 

PS: For the record, If anyone wants to ask me anything about Xiao Yao Pai, you can ask me here, no need to PM me.

 

Effilang I can't understand you, you write all this stuff in answer to me and yet you bait me and poke fun and nastiness and this has been your way all along. 

 

'please make a thread elsewhere and litter it with as much of your sentiment as fills your heart, but kindly stop coming on my thread and regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. You're a grown man, have some dignity.'

 

Oh, wait, you did make that thread already, if I recall. I guess nobody was paying you attention there.

 

 

I've heard that before, several times actually, but you keep coming back.

Let's see if you're a man of your word and actually have the dignity to follow through this time.'

 

Méiyǒu xīn, Jiǎ xīn,

 

Bù zūnzhòng

 

 

  

 

 

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22 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Effilang I can't understand you, you write all this stuff in answer to me and yet you bait me and poke fun and nastiness and this has been your way all along. 

 

 

Ok, let me try to help you understand me, in very basic terms;

 

1. I don't like people who make accusations without offering objective proof.

2. I don't like people who act as if they are entitled to respect, recognition and authority and sit on a high horse.

3. I don't like people who ceaselessly try to force their own experiences and beliefs onto others, while negating others' value and authenticity.

4. I don't like people who don't keep their word, as in your case, you keep coming back to this thread to repeat the same thing over and over, after saying you won't.

 

You tick all those boxes for me.

 

If I poke fun and nastiness, it is because you created those nasty things that I am poking at, out of your own personal desire to slander myself and my school, so you only have yourself to thank for that.

 

In all our exchanges, I have never once attacked your beliefs, your experiences or your methods, even when you claim to study under Tai Shang Lao Jun.

 

Have you ever wondered why that is? Have you ever wondered why in all this time that you've slandered and tried to bad mouth myself and my school that I've never once retaliated in a similar fashion and attacked your school or your experiences or claims?

 

Let's leave it a mystery. It's a lot more interesting that way : )

In terms of respect; I give it where it is shown.
You have not shown it to me, so do not expect it in return.

Edited by effilang

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14 hours ago, effilang said:

 

Ok, let me try to help you understand me, in very basic terms;

 

1. I don't like people who make accusations without offering objective proof.

2. I don't like people who act as if they are entitled to respect, recognition and authority and sit on a high horse.

3. I don't like people who ceaselessly try to force their own experiences and beliefs onto others, while negating others' value and authenticity.

4. I don't like people who don't keep their word, as in your case, you keep coming back to this thread to repeat the same thing over and over, after saying you won't.

 

You tick all those boxes for me.

 

If I poke fun and nastiness, it is because you created those nasty things that I am poking at, out of your own personal desire to slander myself and my school, so you only have yourself to thank for that.

 

In all our exchanges, I have never once attacked your beliefs, your experiences or your methods, even when you claim to study under Tai Shang Lao Jun.

 

Have you ever wondered why that is? Have you ever wondered why in all this time that you've slandered and tried to bad mouth myself and my school that I've never once retaliated in a similar fashion and attacked your school or your experiences or claims?

 

Let's leave it a mystery. It's a lot more interesting that way : )

In terms of respect; I give it where it is shown.
You have not shown it to me, so do not expect it in return.

 

Bad mouth is what you do, I try to stick to facts and explain myself factually and logically, showing where there is deep misguidance and misunderstanding. That is not slander nor bad mouthing it is looking at what is going on based on what I have been taught and what I have experienced while I was in Malaysia of other Daoist spiritual systems and the common theme that runs through such practices in every culture that practices spiritual arts. Your school does not tick many boxes according to research and tradition throughout the world and is more like one of these mixed up Indian cults where a person or people such as you, canvas forums to gain more members and lets face it that's what you are doing here, you rarely make any contribution to any other part of this forum. You say your teacher is Tai Sung, yet you have never appeared at his teachings section or commented. Tai Sung is of course only known for his monumental work. Tai Sung is my teacher so I am there all the time. Why aren't you?

 

James Randy has exposed so many frauds, do you think he is slanderous? He just uses facts and his vast experience to expose these people. So do I, that's not slander, you need to grasp a better use of English. My school do not advertise, I rarely put down anything about the school and because I no longer live in Malaysia I have no contact with the rest of all the temples and its people. There is no hierarchy, any one can go into a temple and beg the Immortal master to teach them and that is the case for all the temples of any Immortals. If you can find fault with anything that I practice then it is your prerogative to say so, it is not slander, you would be expressing an opinion whether educated or not, which is what I have done. But you have taken exception to that because what I have said had shown some very big questions about what you do. I don't canvas on TDB's for students, or have a Facebook page and like my teacher says in his philosophy "followers of the Dao don't make a show". I just try and help guide people in a way that will be genuine that will make some sense to them; there are enough lost souls in this world without creating more.

 

What I meant by I don't understand you, is that anyone who is taught by Immortals would not act and say the things that you did. I don't know you from Adam so I have not commented on you as a person only on what you have been saying and what you have shown. Your likes and dislikes are of no concern of mine and are transient.

But I know that;

The Immortals don't like people who show a snide side to them, who will actively torture and bait someone and bad mouth them and then say, but remember you've got to keep your word and not defend yourself and if you do, look you've broken your word, ha ha he he.

 

 Cunning that is and bad hearted behaviour.

 

That's very telling and this would not come from someone who is taught by Immortals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Bad mouth is what you do, I try to stick to facts and explain myself factually and logically, showing where there is deep misguidance and misunderstanding. That is not slander nor bad mouthing it is looking at what is going on based on what I have been taught and what I have experienced while I was in Malaysia of other Daoist spiritual systems and the common theme that runs through such practices in every culture that practices spiritual arts. Your school does not tick many boxes according to research and tradition throughout the world and is more like one of these mixed up Indian cults where a person or people such as you, canvas forums to gain more members and lets face it that's what you are doing here, you rarely make any contribution to any other part of this forum. You say your teacher is Tai Sung, yet you have never appeared at his teachings section or commented. Tai Sung is of course only known for his monumental work. Tai Sung is my teacher so I am there all the time. Why aren't you?

 

James Randy has exposed so many frauds, do you think he is slanderous? He just uses facts and his vast experience to expose these people. So do I, that's not slander, you need to grasp a better use of English. My school do not advertise, I rarely put down anything about the school and because I no longer live in Malaysia I have no contact with the rest of all the temples and its people. There is no hierarchy, any one can go into a temple and beg the Immortal master to teach them and that is the case for all the temples of any Immortals. If you can find fault with anything that I practice then it is your prerogative to say so, it is not slander, you would be expressing an opinion whether educated or not, which is what I have done. But you have taken exception to that because what I have said had shown some very big questions about what you do. I don't canvas on TDB's for students, or have a Facebook page and like my teacher says in his philosophy "followers of the Dao don't make a show". I just try and help guide people in a way that will be genuine that will make some sense to them; there are enough lost souls in this world without creating more.

 

What I meant by I don't understand you, is that anyone who is taught by Immortals would not act and say the things that you did. I don't know you from Adam so I have not commented on you as a person only on what you have been saying and what you have shown. Your likes and dislikes are of no concern of mine and are transient.

But I know that;

The Immortals don't like people who show a snide side to them, who will actively torture and bait someone and bad mouth them and then say, but remember you've got to keep your word and not defend yourself and if you do, look you've broken your word, ha ha he he.

 

 Cunning that is and bad hearted behaviour.

 

That's very telling and this would not come from someone who is taught by Immortals.

 

 

It may not be legally slanderous, SFH, but it sure as hell is libellous defamation - and let me remind you that when you say things to and officially damage a person or an organisation's reputation, if you can't offer objective evidence to substantiate your accusations, you leave yourself wide open for a defamation lawsuit.

 

I would probably take a little more care when making damaging defamatory claims against an organisation, when you don't have any evidence that would stand in court.

 

Finally, for the nth time; I'm not interested in you or your life, so you can stop coming back here and telling me about yourself and what you do. I really don't honestly care.


You already made a separate thread specifically aimed at defaming our school, yet you still come here to do the very same, because I don't engage with you there. You love attention, pure and simple - if that wasn't the case, you would have accepted my invitation for a meeting by now to come and test your claims, which I've said I will record for evidence; or by now, you would have provided objective evidence to support your claim that the head of our school isn't Tai Shang Lao Jun.

 

You have failed to do both.

 

If I go through all your posts on this thread and make a list of all the damaging claims you've made against us, without providing any evidence, I think you're going to realise just how far you've dug yourself in, Sir.

Edited by effilang

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It is curious that one of the highest immortal masters in the heavens would need or condone a human student defending his good name and reputation if "followers of the Dao don't make a show."

 

This thread is turning into a show, and not a good one. It might be worth asking yourselves if devaluing another Daoist practioner, no matter the school or master, is what a follower of the Dao should be wasting his time and energy on.

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Some basic information from my tradition for high gong

 

“Preventing any form of evil from penetrating one’s energetic field
And pursuing innumerable benevolent deeds is seen as a ladder to heaven.”

 

One hopes to be able to sublimate and transform through the cultivation of one’s self’ and one’s virtuous character, as well as through one’s devout faith in Taoist Immortals and the reverence of the Purple Heaven’s gods, the Heavenly Sages and the Perfected Ones.

 

The direction and objectives are to obtain the compassion and protection from higher life forms and high-dimensional wisdoms, to open the human body’s even greater potential, to attain “Spirit Gong”, a skill beyond the mundane astonishing world. 

 

 The requirements include the study of Daoism’s scriptures such as the Dao De Jing, the Scripture of the Hidden Talisman (Yin Fu Jing), the Yellow Court Scripture (Huang Ting Jing), the Yi Jing, the Yellow Emperor’s Internal Classic (Huang Di Nei Jing), the Founding Father’s Treasured Instructions (Zu Shi Bao Xun), Action and Response According to the Great High (Tai Shang Gan Ying Pian) 

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Well claiming legendary masters as part of one lineage is a very well known thing that is done in china. To help with this lineages use lineage charts, handed down items, herbal formulas and so forth or all the above.

 

The Wu Li Pai claims lao tzu as their founder but they have a lineage chart on the home page and from what I hear many rare and old practices as well....

 

http://www.all-dao.com/

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This subforum 'Systems and Teachers of' is meant to serve as a platform for members to explain there traditions (ie " very specific discussion on a system or teaching/teacher) unlike the General forum where off topic comments are more or less acceptable.  Beyond straightforward questions and direct comments, please keep the conversations here civil and on subject.  It's a great way to learn indepth about an art.  

 

What I'm getting at is- please show the OP author respect here and in turn if you want to explain indepth about your system you should be able to do so, without getting tangled in unfortunate tit for tat arguments and side topics (better created in General or other forum sections).   

 

 

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