I collectively direct this message to everyone.
You keep discussing stupid shit instead of practising : )
There are two major branches to the approach of spiritual cultivation, be it under the umbrella of Daoism or any other culture.
The first is through a direct connection to a Shen and is how it all began. Here the work is primarily Wu Wei.
The second is learning through books or from a living master. Here the work is primarily You Wei.
In Wu Wei systems like Xiantian Dao Yin Shu, we don't have to study theory before practice, because Hu Fa Shen directs every movement of energy in the body, be it the physical body, the subtle energy body or the human/divine consciousness.
Think about all the things you need to take into consideration working on your own;
Does the energy need to move into this meridian or that?
How do I make sure it doesn't go into the wrong path?
When does it have to do it exactly?
How much should we push inside?
Should the pressure be light or strong?
Where do we pause the movement along the path?
Does the force have to synchronise with the breath?
How long do we keep it there?
Do we bring it all back or divert some of it somewhere else?
What time during the day/night/year should we do it?
Should we use the imagination for this one or should we wait for our spirit to act spontaneously?
How deep should we inhale?
How deep should we exhale?
Should we pause the breath on inhale or exhale?
For how long?
In which direction do we lift the sphincters and at which of the pauses do we do it?
Where is our attention at this time?
etc Ad infinitum.
Knowing all the technical details is something that can be mutually exclusive from executing all the technical details during the practice of DYS.
There are times when we have to voluntarily apply pressure in order to increase the force with which energy is moving in a meridian, but the direction is still administered by the Hu Fa Shen.
It is like if you have a car.
You wash it.
You change the oil.
You change the fuel.
You take it for regular check-ups.
Maybe change the colour sometimes or buy some cool accessories etc.
Inviting Hu Fa Shen is like someone taking the driver's seat in your car, while you relax in the passengers seat (most of the time).
You don't even have to help navigate with a map, because Hu Fa Shen knows the way to his home by heart, but the trip is long, so the condition of the car is important.
The tires have to be pumped, tank regularly topped up and you need to have tools to fix anything that needs maintenance or gets broken.
Thankfully, HFS is also a professional mechanic : )
Don't get me wrong though. DYS practice doesn't always feel like you're just a feather being taken by a gentle current.
We're dealing with a lot of pure energy here that steps down into the system and stars harmonising, and this can cause a great deal of physical reactions when energy starts flowing and stagnated pockets of energy are cleared. You may experience strong gyrating movements and vibrations, spontaneous crying, screaming, yelling, whaling, grunts, snarls, blowing of air in specific sounds, burning sensations, extreme and near unbearable gravity at specific acupuncture points (particularly when they are activated with primordial qi). Honestly the variety of ways in which a persons individual practice can unfold is an endless list that can be compared in its vastness only to the uncountable multitude of individual consciousnesses that inhabit the Dao. Nevertheless, all development by the Shen is direct along the Divine curriculum of our school, which serves to develop the consciousness of the Dao Yu in a manner that will facilitate its resonance with the dimension of the Dao within which the collective consciousness of Tai Shang Laojun and all the Shen in the role of Hu Fa reside.
Things just "happen" when you practice XTDYS - and yes, those "things" match up with the things you read in the modern books and the classics, but you don't HAVE to know them, in order for them to happen. In fact, the less you know the better, as your mind's expectations of what it has never experienced or a place it has never been to, ironically enough, tends to cause resistance.
Those that make the fastest progress in DYS are those that are most ignorant of the methodologies of internal alchemy.
This is the FUNDAMENTAL reason why our tradition as a whole is not particularly popular in literature and by extension in public, because along the course of its history, there was never any pressing reason to communicate or record anything for future disciples to reference. Either you were initiated and therefore could cultivate under the administration of a Shen or you weren't, in which case you needed oral or written instructions from another school. It's really that simple.
Li Shifu was just a teenager when an old man came to him and took him as his disciple.
He would go to the forest to meet him there.
After he inherited Dao Yin Shu and had his own family, he transmitted it to them.
The art was transmitted very selectively since the beginning of time.
Our Shifu was granted authority to share it openly.
Today, DYS has been inherited by over 140,000 Daoists, including government ministers, nobility and priests of the major Daoist sects in prominent temples and organisations around the world.
We really don't have anything to prove at this point. We're long past that and at a point where it speaks for itself.
In fact, if anything, we should be asking for people to prove to us why they think they deserve to inherit Dao Yin Shu.
I always find this misunderstanding quite amusing when I come across it, since forms of early shamanistic practice and Daoist thought were already prevalent thousands of years before the time of Laozi; which is what people tend to consider traditional Daoism.
Chinese spiritual practice doesn't start with Laozi or even Huang Di. The consciousness of our celestial headmaster, Tai Shang Laojun, and of others, such as the aforementioned, Huang Di, have been presiding over the development of the earth and supporting the evolution of individual beings since the very early beginnings of this planet, when the most basic forms of energy were still in the early stages of coagulating to form the material organism that could facilitate the growth of consciousness through the process of incarnation ie; the crossing of the bridge between Wuji and Taiji.
It reminds me of responses I often receive from persons when I'm discussing something like the Huangdi Neijing, Neijingtu, Cantongqi or the Wuzhen Pian.
They say, look at this non-traditional new age stuff
Anyway. I'm just thinking out loud so please don't take anything personally - It is just that most people's history doesn't go back far enough to realise that often, their idea of "traditional" IS actually, in many cases, the new-age stuff they are referring to.
Nevertheless, I am only making this statement to raise to view the dichotomy of this perspective. In reality, Daoism is an evolving one and during the course of time the Shen have also made adjustments to accommodate and harmonise with the cultural and technological development of human civilisation. They don't just stick to one thing unintelligently.
Daoism isn't just what we can read in texts.
It's happening right now, everywhere, and if you continue to look back to the past you will miss what is taking place right in front of you.
All the masters whose texts you read and methods you practice to call yourself a Daoist, are alive, still teaching and among us always as disembodied consciousness who enter and exit Taiji to help us draw ourselves closer to them by the condition of our consciousness., in so doing, going deeper into the subtle dimensions of the Dao.
The Shen follow the heartbeat of the Dao and support us all in our evolution. In fact, they are the heartbeat of the Dao.
And I'll tell you something funny, many of the Shen do not look upon their texts and produced works with the same religiousity and drunken reverence that we often do.
Some even have said, hmm, I could probably have written that a little better and I'd probably explain that in a different way to the humans of today!
Search for the Dao in the present moment which is the most current culmination of all wisdom. It is not in the past.
Do you remember when Confucius went to meet Laozi all dressed up fancy with elaborate robes, wanting to have a discussion about etiquette and ceremonial customs; citing those from the past and Laozi cut him off abruptly and told him, all the masters you speak of are dead in their graves, you cannot learn wisdom from the ancients and a swan does not need to bathe daily to remain white.
There are some interesting lessons worth contemplating there.
There's no such thing as a Shen only system or a Jing Qi Shen only system. This is an outrageous proposition and I don't know why people say this.
The 3 Bao are interconnected and interdependent within the complex of the human body. Any event that causes some form of partial disconnection, or better yet put, disharmony between them, in any form, while the heart is still beating, are states of disease, unwell, near death or physical death.
In Xiao Yao Pai, which I take it you're incorrectly referring to as a Shen only system, the SOURCE of transformation is primordial qi from Wuji, which is received from beyond the differentiated state brought about by the separation of Yin and Yang from the divine one. This is where the Shen reside and when they interact with us during practice, they help to temporarily bridge this energy into our body so it can be absorbed by it. Then, the Shen feeds the Qi and the Qi feeds the Jing, but instead of doing this from a source of turbid energy (the body), it uses the purest energy from the subtle realm and steps it down so you have a clean flow.
The energy cannot be absorbed directly initially, because the human consciousness is still weak, the difference in vibration will simply shock the fuck out of it and even damage it or worse. So, Hu Fa Shen bridges it by entering Taiji to a vibration that is safely digestible.
By practising Tai Shang Shen Gong within Dao Yin Shu, we eventually create our own internal bridge, or in order words, with time the consciousness adapts certain qualitative parameters that allow it to process the energy internally without. Hu Fa Shen needing to bridge it constantly. So we gradually become more and more independent and this allows us to be able to pull in energy from Wuji to transform our consciousness more efficiently and more independently.
Because we start from the top and move down, again, due to the SOURCE of energy (this is our primary difference), our skills also develop first within the subtle dimension.
In other words, the skills we develop initially can be used on a vibration level that is strictly above Qi or Jing, so it cannot affect the subtle energy or physical body at the early stage, but it can directly manipulate the energy of someones consciousness. Some of these are skills inherited, some of these are developed.
In order for us to shift that skill into the physical dimension we need to practice Tai Shang Shen Gong, which moves down the system and begins to develop physical power and subtle power. This is essentially our system of Neigong (we don't have Waigong), because it moves from Shen to Qi to Jing and by the time it gets to Jing the internal energy is already at a very strong level of development.
With Houtian Xiulian Gong, you can either work on Neigong first, or Waigong - then lead the energy inwards to develop Neigong and from Neigong move to Neidan.
Yes, he has observed it, because I invited him.
Maybe its me, but the way you wrote that makes it seem like he came to spy and therefore discovered something we were trying to hide.
No. He was openly and lovingly invited.
Every consciousness is individual and independent from one another. We influence each other, but are individual and our individuality remains always.
One consciousness cannot possess another. I do not condone the use of the word possession even if you are employing it in its positive connotation of mutually agreed control, because that still implies that you're handing over control for whatever period of time, which is not how DYS works.
Handing over complete control is a direct violation of free will and a violation of the highest law, which even God-Dao does not violate.
What happens is not control, but guidance, you're "guided" (that's why our art is called The Divine Guidance Art) to move or do something at which point you can either follow it or reject it, because you're always in control.
During practice you have to develop your sensitivity to the Shen's energy and feel it when he/she guides you.
You should be able to distinguish your Hu Fa Shen's guiding energy from your own will and no matter the instruction, you can always move in the opposite direction if you wish.
There are no installations, chains, attachments, chip implants or whatever other metaphorical expressions exist : )
It is simply one consciousness helping another consciousness, no bonds are necessary for this.
The only one that owns anyone and is superior to everyone is the primordial Dao; for we all exist within its body and enrich it.
No, there isn't a way to know before initiation. You will need to become initiated and cultivate to see it for yourself.
Third parties outside of Xiao Yao Pai, don't always see Hu Fa Shen directly. Very often what they experience is their shadow in Taiji because most people can't detect Hu Fa Shen directly in their raw formless state of light. They show themselves only when they wish to be seen and to who they wish to see them.
You can have a group of Shen in the room before initiation and nobody will see them until the moment they are initiated, while others won't see them at all (yet) : )
A Shen and a Xian are both a consciousness outside of a physical body.
A Human is a consciousness inside a physical body.
Both a Shen and a Human can help another Human, teach him, educate him, energise him, heal his energy etc - and in both instances, no bonding is necessary.
What is it about the lack of a physical body that suddenly makes you think that consciousness must bond with you?
It is just mere energetic interaction.
You go to your patients' home and do your Wai Qi Liao Fa and then you go home.
Hu Fa Shen comes to your home and does his work and goes home too. No strings attached.
Moreover, if anybody wants to leave the school, they just face Tai Shang, make a formal request and dissolve the apprenticeship, then they will be stricken off the heavenly register until next life, when they can apply again. Heaven doesn't like time wasters and unserious people, so if you don't appreciate the value after you receive it, then you'll have to wait for your next life, if you're lucky enough to find us.
I do not always share everything about everything, so if I explained something in the past, it doesn't mean that is all the information regarding the subject.
The mutually beneficial exchange I speak of is not about collecting coins in a purse.
The Shen that have merged with the Dao embody its qualities, power, will and divine directive the deeper they go into the core.
The benefit for such a Shen is in its ability to conduct the evolution of souls within Taiji (The physical universe), using the power of the Dao to do so (or however much of this power it has managed to inherit as a result of the condition of its own consciousness as determined by its resonance with the core values of the Dao).
All the Shen desire to do is give themselves.
That is what Love is. Giving yourself endlessly.
The Dao gives itself endlessly to all of its creations in supporting their life and evolution.
The Shen who have drawn themselves closer to the Dao and have merged with it to become one consciousness; and who therefore act both as its body and as their individual identities, also give themselves endlessly. They are incessantly among us here in one form or another, either influencing life directly from Wuji or entering Taiji to more directly direct us in our development.
The benefit to you is your own growth in the direction of the Shen and the Dao through the refinement of your negative personality traits, your turbulent emotions and the density of your consciousness to make it light and soft, but also strong so it does not break or diffuse. This is the Yuan Shen that is both Yin and Yang and must be crystallised through proper cultivation. The benefit is love, peace, calm, happiness, compassion, bliss and freedom from turmoil and incarnation - the same benefits that the subtlest Shen enjoy.
I do not understand the point you're trying to make here at all.
Even the Dao is expanding. With every consciousness that merges into the primordial it too is enriched.
With every unique experience we have in Taiji within the physical body; the Dao is too is enriched.
Every Shen that has merged into the subtlest dimension of the Dao. Into is core, becomes the Dao.
It is like a drop jumping in the sea, it becomes the sea and the sea becomes it.
In that sense they have attained the highest perfection of oneness, but even within this perfection, there is life and continued involvement with the evolution of the collective consciousness.
It is empty but not void (Kong).
Ok, and what are you expecting exactly?
You have to sit down and practice. That's it.
Most of those experiences in the beginning serve to convince and assure the disciple that what he is experiencing is genuine.
After that, things calm down as the work moves into the cultivation of consciousness.
Sitting in OBLIVION.
Sitting and FORGETTING.
CONSCIOUSNESS. Only the most subtle thing in all of existence, but you want what?
Drum and Base playing every time you sit down to meditate?
Or you want to be woken up by unicorns every time your alarm rings?
Some people cant even feel their own physical bodies.
Others can't feel their Qi or believe it exists.
But you're complaining that consciousness isn't perceptible? : )
I will tell you EXACTLY why, the people who didn't experience lasting results failed, because as with everything else, they simply failed to persist, thinking that since all the bells and whistles have stopped singing now, things must be finished - no, when the bells and whistles stop, is when you're moving into the cultivation of consciousness. It's a boring exercise meditation. Sitting still and being quiet inside and out.
Do amazing mind blowing things happen. Oh hell yes, but if you keep expecting things with your mind, you will always fail.
Moreover, I think most people are too spoilt nowadays.
You can be initiated into a system where a Shen comes to teach you personally, to which you can speak to and receive messages and direction, see it, hear it, touch it.
But people still want more
I can't help those ones which will not help themselves : )
Is my testimony too inconvenient or must it come from someone who was a complete virgin in internal cultivation to please you? : )
What?! - Why the hell not?
Are you implying I can't distinguish between when I started practising one system and stopped another and to which I can attribute specific achievements?
Of course I can. How can anybody not! It is not a matter that demands much to be intellectualised!
What a surprise. Consciousness, the most subtle energy in the Dao, is subtle...
Common guys, is this even a serious conversation : )))
You expect to cultivate your consciousness and everything to keep on feeling physical?
Then you're just cultivating your Taiji energy, which will disperse with the body after death and not your consciousness.
Every Hu Fa Shen can read your mind and will treat you according to your stubbornness, arrogance, ignorance, wisdom, ethics, expectations and so forth.
They have an endless ways to test you.
Keep looking for palpable experiences and your Hu Fa Shen will make certain that even while you're being refined intensely, you don't get any.
Maybe you'll quit, maybe you'll surmount your ego and on the other side of the hill is a paradise of experiences.
Every Hu Fa Shen will target your weakness for it is that which needs to be refined.
Dao Yin Shu isn't only about energetic cultivation.
It's about ethical cultivation, wisdom cultivation, love cultivation, compassion cultivation, power and skill cultivation and it is about emotional and psychological cultivation.
You will be hit on every single one of those levels and you are the only thing that determines if you fail or succeed : )
Anybody who thinks that all parts of this practice are easy, just don't bother coming at all.
Better stay at home. Seriously : )
NO! For crying out loud. This is absolute horse kaka.
We have Dao Yu who didn't even know what meditation was before they got initiated and they are making fantastic progress!
NO, stop trying to OBSERVE and UNDERSTAND whats going on.
This is the crux of the problem.
You're trying to use information that your mind has accumulated within the span of a lifetime to fathom the unfathomable infinity of the Dao.
It is an inconceivably stupefying attempt of the mind of a frog trying to comprehend the mind of the whole ocean, from within a WELL.
It is always doomed to failure.
Yes, it is definitely different, because we are under the guidance of Shen, so they direct us.
Our understanding comes through the act of doing, but we needn't know beforehand what to do or how to do it. It simply burdens the mind with anxiety.
No, no, Ashino.
Many of those who have very successful practice came with no knowledge of alchemy, frail bodies, often sick or weak in some way.
It is not the quality of the body that is the most important thing when dealing with Shen, but the quality of the heart-mind which always takes precedence.
They function in a way which facilitates the continued reunification of the spirit within the primordial qi, linking together the water element in the kidneys and the fire element in the heart so the true yang and true yin can invert their places to bring bout the primordial state of being signified by Qian and Kun in their right positions. Then the water of the primordial qi stops flowing down and out and the fire spirit stops flaring up.
Once these are inverted and fire is under water, the steam is constantly produced by their union which settles in the yellow court around the Zhong Dantien, from here consciousness starts to expand beyond the chest and physical body and grow in size without limit. You can always determine someones level of cultivation by the size of their consciousness, which can grow to the size of rooms, buildings, neighbourhoods, cities, countries, the planet and up to the size of the Dao which it attains after it dissolves into it completely at the sage of Kong (emptiness; our tradition's highest goal).
Once the primordial qi is flowing through these meridians it enables this entire process of refinement, helping the consciousness crystalise into one solid being.
Theses functions are not activated by Houtian Qi flowing through the body meridians which are mostly a product of food, drink and environmental Qi.
From the moment we are initiated we are directly absorbing primordial qi into the body which feeds the Xia Dantien and speeds up the whole process of work, which would otherwise have to be performed solely with ones own energy.
It's kind of like we plug-in and download the blueprint and the blueprint itself starts to recallibrate us form the inside, while Hu Fa Shen, the engineers, implements and administers the integration of the divine blueprint into the subtle energy and consciousness in a way that allows a steady gradual reversal of the post-natal state (ni).
When we move the primordial qi from the Xian Dantien, unlike in Houtian, where we cycle it, we instead move it up the Ren and up the Du simultaneously, this is around the time the MDT and LDT start to relink together which you will feel sometimes like a stream or a line connecting between them with something like an amorphous ball passing up and down between them.
In all our Xiantian Qigong (which is the equivalent of the Houtian Neidan) we only focus on the Xiao Zhou Tian (Micro-CO) - we don't focus on the other Qi Jing Mai (Liu/Six).
Our whole work takes place in the torso between the LDT, MDT, UDT and outside of the physical body.
Signs, I've already included above, but the movement of the primordial qi in the LDT standa out for me, which is like a sudden spontaneous resuscitation of live energy. It is like the manifestation of Hun-tun within the body. Something is suddenly born. It feels like you are pregnant with a child that is moving, yet its a kind of weaving, waving, nebulous and serpentine energy, that is wanting to move and do and transform.
We also clear the 3 passes going up Du as well.
So we share a lot of similarities with Houtian Xiulian and also have divergences in different areas.
Even though there is crossover, it goes something like this:
- Xiantian Tai Shang Shen Gong: helps us bridge primordial qi from wuji down into taiji to be used by the body.
- Xiantian Qigong: Our Neidan and our Neigong practice - both of which involve energy work, so we call it Qigong; energy work.
- Xiantian Jing Zuo: here we primarily refine out consciousness to become more subtle by absorbing primordial qi, while increasing its crystalisation so it becomes Yang.
Various methods of working with energy, absorbing energy from the sun and moon, spiritual combat and finger weaving, working on converting the spiritual energy into physical to ground it into the body for neigong power, projecting the spirit outside of the body, learning to move the consciousness more flexibly, learning to dissolve into the consciousness of other things, material or immaterial, moving energy consciously in the body.
Alrighty then, there you are : )
No they didn't.
It is not your choice.
There is a directive beyond your preferences.
They just accommodated your arrogance with a lolly-pop so you would shut your ego up.
Now you are just practising the same thing, thinking it is something else and It's kind of funny, but that is what you deserve : )
Our school has its own system, its own methodology, its own curriculum, its own heirarchy of Shen that act as its executors and its own organisational rules in heaven as on earth.
It is for all intents and purposes like a traditional school in any one of our societies.
One student cannot come and change the system; this is hubris in its worst form, for a human to think he can send away a God and ask for another like some child who is unsatisfied with his toys, or to imply that he is so special that he cannot be taught in a "common" way and to imply that the school has no alchemy owing to your own limited understanding.
A Shen can reject a student, a student can't reject a Shen.
I feel dirtied by the self-conceited egocentrism of this sentiment just by reading and replying to it.
Nobody looses the connection to their mandated Hu Fa Shen, providing they wish to cultivate.
The Shen under Xiao Yao Pai are not volunteers, they are on formal duty and it is their duty to use a way particular to their apprentice's consciousness and ego to advance them.
The assessment of one's "ripeness" is carried out during initiation, when the candidate Hu Fa Shen appear in the room to pick their students, and it is done on a soul level.
If one is rejected due to having a malevolent heart.
They are rejected on the spot, no dilly-dallying.
The apprenticeship is dissolved only when you dissolve it formally and after death, not before.
So rare in fact that when it is under your nose you do not see it.
Physical immortality doesn't exist.
There can only be an extension of physical life through healthy living and good internal work, but all things that are born must die.
There are no living physical immortals. Every Daoist and Buddhist school on the planet today that claims they have a lineage of physical immortals, have all buried their former masters in graves, or their founders would still be alive. When you ask them if their masters were buried or not, they all suddenly get very sensitive around this topic.
Please refer to my above replies to the former posters regarding some of the phases of Neidan in Xiao Yao Pai, which you're clearly ignorant of.
You first need to enrich your understanding of the word Dan in Daoism as well as Primordial Qi.
Most of your misunderstandings are due to very basic misconceptions in both order of and meaning of things in Neidan.
FYI: the process Houtian Xiulian in Neidan is what takes place in many parts of our Xiantian Qigong, after it advances to a phase you obviously haven't reached yet, which is fine of its own, but It is not very respectable to jump to conclusions based on that lack of experience and then go on public forums saying, it doesn't exist because I didn't reach it yet.
We cultivate the highest Dan of the Dao and the primordial qi into which our consciousness settles and disperses during Xiantian Qigong and Xiantian Jingzuo practice and we also have Neigong.
And before you start saying again that you had a very long 15 minute conversation with one of our Masters, let me just remind you that I've been practising Dao Yin Shu and have been receiving education in this system of work for over 6 years now.
Damn, we dodged a bullet there.
Such a thing as "shen alone" does not exist and any "real" alchemist or TCM Practitioner for that matter, would spit their coffee out reading that.