The origin of mankind

[Nungali]

It's natural that we all are getting older.I don't want to focus so much about getting older but I want to get wiser.

 

Well, sorry, it's inexorably intertwined  

 

(I am such a tease ! ) 

 

Meaning ;   I got older as I got wiser ... and the older I get the wiser I get. 

 

 

Apech tells me I am a  real wise guy !   

[Nungali]

If we could have a time machine.....but our technology level is much too far for that to reach it just like we can't reach to the answer of origin of mankind!! Is this connected?

 

Well, a time machine cannot exist ,  logically. I am sure you have encountered the conundrum with that idea. 

 

But I think we can reach the answer of the origin of mankind  (depending on your deffinition iof mankind) . 

[Marblehead]

But I think we can reach the answer of the origin of mankind  (depending on your deffinition iof mankind) . 

Well, we are on Page 73 and still wondering.

[Apech]

Well, a time machine cannot exist ,  logically. I am sure you have encountered the conundrum with that idea. 

 

But I think we can reach the answer of the origin of mankind  (depending on your deffinition iof mankind) . 

 

 

How did I get back here then?

[Karl]

 

 

Why on earth would you write that ?    For debate ? Or do you really think that ?

 

We come with at least 8 programms; 4 of them pretty much already written before birth and 4 to be written as we live, and the pattern repeats in the human race as a whole throughout its evolution. 

 

And what about 'spirit'    (I dont mean that mystically ) ;  what gives spirit , personality, type ?  Dont tell me its developed after birth as I have seen it operating way before any programming takes place ... even in a litter of puppies - each has their own personality or 'demeanor' just like people do . 

 

This may come through the genetic code or some other function ....   and speaking of the genetic code of an individual ; how can one think or write what you did above , are you saying there is no genetic code that defines an individual ? 

 

Thats crazy !   Actually, that's  outrageous     ....    how dare you suggest such a thing ... 

 

 

why , I orta .....  I orta .... 

 

 

 

It's not a case of belief, it's how it is. We don't have any knowledge of our past, or any other kind of knowledge. We have a cognitive and emotional faculty, physical response to pain and pleasure (the basis of our wider spread of conceptual emotion as we grow through infancy), we have automatic systems for our bodies and we have senses to automatic precepts.

 

Beyond that we are blank slates and must learn everything by direct experience, thus rooted in reality.

 

That means we have no innate knowledge of our past, but we have a faculty that might one day allow us to know it. I explore this more fully in objectivist 101 once I get to concept formation. I started it just so it would more fully answer questions such as this.

[Nungali]

Well, we are on Page 73 and still wondering.

 

'We' ? 

 

You   are still wondering . 

 

Like I said 50 pages  back ....  I know    ....  its just that people dont believe me      

[Nungali]

How did I get back here then?

 

 

[Marblehead]

 I know    ....  its just that people dont believe me      

Seems that you have work to do.

[Nungali]

It's not a case of belief, it's how it is. We don't have any knowledge of our past, or any other kind of knowledge. We have a cognitive and emotional faculty, physical response to pain and pleasure (the basis of our wider spread of conceptual emotion as we grow through infancy), we have automatic systems for our bodies and we have senses to automatic precepts. Beyond that we are blank slates and must learn everything by direct experience, thus rooted in reality. That means we have no innate knowledge of our past, but we have a faculty that might one day allow us to know it. I explore this more fully in objectivist 101 once I get to concept formation. I started it just so it would more fully answer questions such as this.

 

Hmmm ... now you seem to be taking a step back from the original first and very broad claim ... which seemed to deny things like genetic coding . 

 

or did you start backtracking after I mentioned the genetic code ?   

 

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Nungali

[Marblehead]

When we dance we must sometimes backstep.

[Karl]

Hmmm ... now you seem to be taking a step back from the original first and very broad claim ... which seemed to deby things like genetic coding . 

 

or did you start backtracking after I mentioned the genetic code ?   

 

 

 

Don't be crazy :-) this is specifically about innate knowledge not genetics. We can't use our minds to reveal our genetic coding directly, but we can by applying science.

 

Isn't that the issue here ? equivocation. A few believe we have innate knowledge that is occulted either introspectively-intrincisism or extrospectively -implying determinism and subjectivism.

 

I believe we can and probably will discover our beginnings just as we discovered our DNA coding, but it won't be by any kind of religious revelation, or fate moving our hands, it will be by scientific efforts that it will be known. Though we can offer conjecture here, we are guessing, but others think we already have the answer and a bit of communing/seancing will release the secret.

[Nungali]

Seems that you have work to do.

 

 

Nah ...  I am sure you realise my attitude about that !    *  

 

I have stopped taking on pointless work ( like trying  to get people to clearly define what they mean about the terms they use in discussion, lineal progression of ideas throughout discussion, etc. etc . ) 

 

Apparently most people dont work that way ? 

 

And obviously , its entirely my fault !     

 

 

[  Couple of days back a 'fellow communer' asks   "Do you mind if I cut the grass in your paddock." 

 

"YES!    Well ....   <thinks>    ... no, I dont mind if you  cut the grass . " 

 

" Oh ... here you go again with semantics .... you have been in court to much and are too literal ... why cant you just ..."

 

"Now hang on a minute !  If I had said yes generally you would have cut the grass and removed the mulch and put it on your crops and sold them and exported the nutrients out of this paddock, to yours and off property without replacing them ..... you know I have protested about that constantly !   So is that your aim ? "

 

wiggle wiggle bulls hit  - well, actually it was. 

 

"So, ask me if you can cut  and take the mulch then !    Dont try to manipulate me into it by making out you are doing me a favour and then blame me for being all semantical about things ! " 

 

- dork! 

 

 

Here is another classic ;     "  Oh   Fred has  stolen money off Bill ! "

 

"How do you know that ?"

 

" Mary told me ."

 

" How did she know?"

 

Bill told her and she told me  me . " 

 

"Then you dont know that, all you know is that Mary told you  she claimed Bill said that ."

 

"Huh?"

 

"It might not be true at all ... you dont know Bill is a thief, you just listened to gossip. "

 

 

.....   and they wonder why I wear this a lot ; 

 

[Junko]

Well, sorry, it's inexorably intertwined  

 

(I am such a tease ! ) 

 

Meaning ;   I got older as I got wiser ... and the older I get the wiser I get. 

 

 

Apech tells me I am a  real wise guy !   

I am used to it that my husband tease me often.

[Michael Sternbach]

I am used to it that my husband tease me often.

 

Not more than necessary!

[Karl]

Nah ... I am sure you realise my attitude about that ! *

 

I have stopped taking on pointless work ( like trying to get people to clearly define what they mean about the terms they use in discussion, lineal progression of ideas throughout discussion, etc. etc . )

 

Apparently most people dont work that way ?

 

And obviously , its entirely my fault !

 

 

[ Couple of days back a 'fellow communer' asks "Do you mind if I cut the grass in your paddock."

 

"YES! Well .... ... no, I dont mind if you cut the grass . "

 

" Oh ... here you go again with semantics .... you have been in court to much and are too literal ... why cant you just ..."

 

"Now hang on a minute ! If I had said yes generally you would have cut the grass and removed the mulch and put it on your crops and sold them and exported the nutrients out of this paddock, to yours and off property without replacing them ..... you know I have protested about that constantly ! So is that your aim ? "

 

wiggle wiggle bulls hit - well, actually it was.

 

"So, ask me if you can cut and take the mulch then ! Dont try to manipulate me into it by making out you are doing me a favour and then blame me for being all semantical about things ! "

 

- dork!

 

 

Here is another classic ; " Oh Fred has stolen money off Bill ! "

 

"How do you know that ?"

 

" Mary told me ."

 

" How did she know?"

 

Bill told her and she told me me . "

 

"Then you dont know that, all you know is that Mary told you she claimed Bill said that ."

 

"Huh?"

 

"It might not be true at all ... you dont know Bill is a thief, you just listened to gossip. "

 

 

..... and they wonder why I wear this a lot ;

 

Reminds of the estimates I got for my roof.

 

We replace all the slates with new.

Why ?

It's just better.

What do you do with all, those perfectly good blue Welsh slates you liberate from my roof ?

Errr well ...?

You sell them don't you ?

Well, yes, if we can

How much do you get per slate ?

I, well, yes, well it depends ...

And if I go on line right now and price up a Victorian Welsh blue slate from a reclaimer yard then what would I pay ?

I dunno, it might be all kinds of prices

And what to you sell them at ? Because I have in mind the price of that reclaimed slate is probably more than the entire job with the new Spanish slate.

I'll have a look at that and get back to you...

Edited May 9, 2016 by Karl

[Nungali]

Don't be crazy :-) this is specifically about innate knowledge not genetics.

 

Dont you be crazy !    

 

I was referring to this 

 

" We are born as blank slates, there isn't an intrinsic *   history encoded prior to birth.  "

 

( *  belonging naturally; essential ) 

 

genetic code IS an intrinsic history encoded prior to birth 

 

 

 

 

We can't use our minds to reveal our genetic coding directly, but we can by applying science. Isn't that the issue here ?

 

No, the issue is, you made a simple one wrong statement or claim ....  I refuted it , now you are changing that claim by extension .... or back peddling. 

 

 

 

equivocation. A few believe we have innate knowledge that is occulted either introspectively-intrincisism or extrospectively -implying determinism and subjectivism. I believe we can and probably will discover our beginnings just as we discovered our DNA coding, but it won't be by any kind of religious revelation, or fate moving our hands, it will be by scientific efforts that it will be known. Though we can offer conjecture here, we are guessing, but others think we already have the answer and a bit of communing/seancing will release the secret.

 

I agree , but this  ^   is now a qualification and an extension of the first statement that I disagreed with.   I never claimed the above ...  just differences in genetic coding and the fact of different 'spirit' (which I distinctly de-mystified ) . 

 

besides ....  I am in a room smashing mood today  

 

 

[Nungali]

When we dance we must sometimes backstep.

 

 

Not always ; 

 

[Nungali]

I am used to it that my husband tease me often.

 

 

What a brute !  

[Nungali]

Not more than necessary!

 

 

What .... a type of teasing dance is it 

 

 

[Karl]

Dont you be crazy !    

 

I was referring to this 

 

" We are born as blank slates, there isn't an intrinsic *   history encoded prior to birth.  "

 

( *  belonging naturally; essential ) 

 

genetic code IS an intrinsic history encoded prior to birth 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, the issue is, you made a simple one wrong statement or claim ....  I refuted it , now you are changing that claim by extension .... or back peddling. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree , but this  ^   is now a qualification and an extension of the first statement that I disagreed with.   I never claimed the above ...  just differences in genetic coding and the fact of different 'spirit' (which I distinctly de-mystified ) . 

 

besides ....  I am in a room smashing mood today  

 

 

 

I'm not, we are on different tacks. You are equivocation on the word 'history'. We can't get at that history intrinsically, there is no innate knowledge in our heads. Our minds are tabula rasa at birth I said nothing about biological genetics. Surely that should be obvious ? I'm sure our cell construction is a functioning part of our biochemistry, but I couldn't know that until I build a microscope to examine cell structure and I can't build a microscope until I've learned about lens construction....etc etc.

 

I do think you are in a room smashing mood to day, I get that, I get those :-)

[Nungali]

Wait !   You got spare old roof tiles !   

 

 

let me at 'em  !   Its karate time !   

 

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

Not always ; 

 

That's not dancing; that's wiggling.

[Marblehead]

Not more than necessary!

What she said sounded so cool.  What you said was unnecessary.  Hehehe.  Nice defensive posture though.

[Marblehead]

besides ....  I am in a room smashing mood today  

 

I hope you enjoy buying replacements for all the things you are destroying.

[Junko]

Nungali, I don't know how you can tell my feeling at a moment like that little video you put above a guy in the kitchen breaking plates one after the other(it looks like that)!I feel exactly like this since my best friend(one of my dog)has died recently.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Junko