The origin of mankind

[Marblehead]

I don't know how you can tell my feeling at a moment like that little video you put above a guy in the kitchen breaking plates one after the other(it looks like that)!I feel exactly like this since my best friend(one of my dog)has died recently.

Those feelings are going to happen.  Break the dishes and you have to buy replacements.  I'm sure you could find better things to do with the money.

[Junko]

That's not dancing; that's wiggling.

They are warming up!Then they would start dancing incredibly next!

[Junko]

Those feelings are going to happen.  Break the dishes and you have to buy replacements.  I'm sure you could find better things to do with the money.

Well, I am just feeling like I want to do it.I know it's just messy so I wouldn't do it.Beside that it wouldn't be good for my other dog.!

[Marblehead]

They are warming up!Then they would start dancing incredibly next!

That's Michael's woman.  Always the optimist.

[Junko]

I always want to look forward. Is this attitude called optimist?

[Nungali]

That's not dancing; that's wiggling.

 

 

It gets better ;

 

 

[Nungali]

I hope you enjoy buying replacements for all the things you are destroying.

 

Nope !   This is what we do with that stuff around here ;  

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

Nungali, I don't know how you can tell my feeling at a moment like that little video you put above a guy in the kitchen breaking plates one after the other(it looks like that)!I feel exactly like this since my best friend(one of my dog)has died recently.

 

 

Nungali has empathy  -  that's how .

 

Condolences Junko . 

[Nungali]

Those feelings are going to happen.  Break the dishes and you have to buy replacements.  I'm sure you could find better things to do with the money.

 

 

Ohhhh right !  Now I get you  

 

 

..... those were not my dishes   

 

 

I'm not gonna break my own  dishes !   

[blue eyed snake]

Well, we are on Page 73 and still wondering.

 

well, as you are the wondering taoist that should suit you,

 

on the other hand, I think Junko gave us a neverending thread fulll of nice derailings, nice!

[blue eyed snake]

It's not a case of belief, it's how it is. We don't have any knowledge of our past, or any other kind of knowledge.

 

well, there's good reason to believe that past lives are real, there's a nice book on it, someone else may be able to post a link on it. 

 

some nice  empirical evidence for the diehard materialists around here 

[blue eyed snake]

 ( like trying  to get people to clearly define what they mean about the terms they use in discussion, lineal progression of ideas throughout discussion, etc. etc . ) 

 

see, I just knew there are english words to describe what can be regularly observed when you read or listen how people communicate

 

Apparently most people dont work that way ? 

 

they don't

 

And obviously , its entirely my fault !     

 

always ....

[Karl]

well, there's good reason to believe that past lives are real, there's a nice book on it, someone else may be able to post a link on it. 

 

some nice  empirical evidence for the diehard materialists around here 

 

That's for DH :-) I'm not an empiricist/materialist. For an objectivist 'past lives' are very easy to refute, regardless of any 'evidence'.

It doesn't stand up to any logical reasoned scrutiny starting from the basic axioms. Existence has primacy over consciousness. Existence exists and consciousness must be conscious of some-thing. Therefore everything has a seperate identity, including consciousness. The only 'past life' is biological or material. Everything is made of something else and of course parents hand down chunks of biological identity to their children.

 

However, children are born tabula rasa. Everything they learn is in this life, therefore even should you posit that some semblance of some previous human being existed as a hidden memory, it would be over written completely from the beginning of life.

 

Past life is just another projection of the primacy of consciousness. It is mysticism worthy of very ancient pagan societies and should be seen as ridiculous as chariots pulling the sun across the sky.

 

It's nice to imagine these things, make stories out of them, but they aren't reality.

[blue eyed snake]

That's for DH :-) I'm not an empiricist/materialist. For an objectivist 'past lives' are very easy to refute, regardless of any 'evidence'. It doesn't stand up to any logical reasoned scrutiny starting from the basic axioms. Existence has primacy over consciousness. Existence exists and consciousness must be conscious of some-thing. Therefore everything has a seperate identity, including consciousness. The only 'past life' is biological or material. Everything is made of something else and of course parents hand down chunks of biological identity to their children. However, children are born tabula rasa. Everything they learn is in this life, therefore even should you posit that some semblance of some previous human being existed as a hidden memory, it would be over written completely from the beginning of life. Past life is just another projection of the primacy of consciousness. It is mysticism worthy of very ancient pagan societies and should be seen as ridiculous as chariots pulling the sun across the sky. It's nice to imagine these things, make stories out of them, but they aren't reality.

 

well, seems to me that an objectivist should examine new facts that might provide evidence of previously misunderstood concepts. How else would the body of knowledge grow? 

 

so I looked it up for you

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0852073526/

 

In this book children from all over the world remember their past lives. When the children's statements are subjected to scientific verification, they are invariably confirmed in every detail.

 

and:

 

German therapist Trutz Hardo shares extraordinary case studies of children from around the world who remember details of their past lives. One child in the Golan Heights, a region near the border of Syria and Israel, has a tale that will give you goosebumps.

 

A three-year-old of the Druze ethnic group, a group of people for whom reincarnation is a core belief, told his elders that he knew what had happened to him in his past life: He was murdered. The boy, whose story was documented by Dr. Eli Lasch and then told to Hardo, was born with a long, red birthmark on his head. For the Druse birthmarks like these are an indication of death wounds, says Hardo, and children born with them are paid close attention to for anything they may remember of their past lives.

 

“As soon as a child is born its body is searched for birthmarks, since they are convinced that these stem from death wounds, which were received in a past life,” Hardo writes. 

If such marks are found on a child they try to discover something from his or her past life as soon as the child is able to speak in order to get the first clues to the circumstances of his or her former death.”

Once this particular child turned three and could speak, he told his elders that he was killed by an axe blow to the head. He was led through villages to see if he could remember where he lived, until he came to one that seemed familiar to him. The child said he remembered both the first and last name of his killer with complete clarity.

 

Hardo writes that the boy confronted a man he’d never met but knowing his full name, claiming him to be the murderer. “Suddenly the boy walked up to a man and said, “Aren’t you … (Eli [Lasch] forgot the name)?” The man answered yes. Then the boy said, “I used to be your neighbour. We had a fight and you killed me with an axe.” Eli told me how the man had suddenly gone white as a sheet. The three-year-old boy then said, “I even know where he buried my body.”

 

Lo and behold, the boy led the elders to the exact spot, a pile of stones, under which there lay a buried body. The buried man’s skull showed a split in the front. The boy also led the group to the spot where the axe was buried, forcing the accused killer to eventually confess his crime.

[Marblehead]

I always want to look forward. Is this attitude called optimist?

Yes, I think it is fair to call you an optimist.  (Remember, I know you only from what you have said here at DaoBums.)

 

To look forward with a positive vision knowing that life could be better for most if only a little effort were put forth.  This is optimism.  To never give up on the potential goodness of the human animal.

 

At this point I could easily slip into some Buddhist or Taoist sayings but I won't.

[Marblehead]

It gets better ;

 

Okay.  Yes, they did dance.

[Marblehead]

some nice  empirical evidence for the diehard materialists around here 

 

I used to hold first place with that label but I think Karl might have knocked me down a notch.

[Karl]

well, seems to me that an objectivist should examine new facts that might provide evidence of previously misunderstood concepts. How else would the body of knowledge grow? 

 

so I looked it up for you

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0852073526/

 

In this book children from all over the world remember their past lives. When the children's statements are subjected to scientific verification, they are invariably confirmed in every detail.

 

and:

 

German therapist Trutz Hardo shares extraordinary case studies of children from around the world who remember details of their past lives. One child in the Golan Heights, a region near the border of Syria and Israel, has a tale that will give you goosebumps.

 

A three-year-old of the Druze ethnic group, a group of people for whom reincarnation is a core belief, told his elders that he knew what had happened to him in his past life: He was murdered. The boy, whose story was documented by Dr. Eli Lasch and then told to Hardo, was born with a long, red birthmark on his head. For the Druse birthmarks like these are an indication of death wounds, says Hardo, and children born with them are paid close attention to for anything they may remember of their past lives.

 

“As soon as a child is born its body is searched for birthmarks, since they are convinced that these stem from death wounds, which were received in a past life,” Hardo writes. 

 

Once this particular child turned three and could speak, he told his elders that he was killed by an axe blow to the head. He was led through villages to see if he could remember where he lived, until he came to one that seemed familiar to him. The child said he remembered both the first and last name of his killer with complete clarity.

 

Hardo writes that the boy confronted a man he’d never met but knowing his full name, claiming him to be the murderer. “Suddenly the boy walked up to a man and said, “Aren’t you … (Eli [Lasch] forgot the name)?” The man answered yes. Then the boy said, “I used to be your neighbour. We had a fight and you killed me with an axe.” Eli told me how the man had suddenly gone white as a sheet. The three-year-old boy then said, “I even know where he buried my body.”

 

Lo and behold, the boy led the elders to the exact spot, a pile of stones, under which there lay a buried body. The buried man’s skull showed a split in the front. The boy also led the group to the spot where the axe was buried, forcing the accused killer to eventually confess his crime.

 

There are no facts, anecdotal proof isn't scientific fact, or proof. People write these books because they believe in these things and other people buy them to support their faith. I dislike getting into these discussions because, inevitably, sitting behind this faith is emotional investment. I don't go around telling children that Santa doesn't exist-although I strongly suspect that it's actually the adults that want to preserve the myth of the invisible benevolent altruist because they wish the world was like that. Children would, at a certain age, probably wonder why their parents had been lying to them.

[Stosh]

I used to hold first place with that label but I think Karl might have knocked me down a notch.

That's just because you graciously allowed him to take 'point'

 

Adult to child,, Are You Sure you had past lives? 

child ,,Yes!

 

There you have it ! proven in every detail. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by Stosh

[Karl]

I used to hold first place with that label but I think Karl might have knocked me down a notch.

 

Race ya

[Karl]

That's just because you graciously allowed him to take 'point'

 

Aye. One good volunteer is worth a million conscripts.

[Marblehead]

Race ya

Hehehe.  I don't compete any more.  (Actually rarely have.)  But thanks for the offer.

[Stosh]

Aye. One good volunteer is worth a million conscripts.

Eh,, I do get the sentiment , but from a personal standpoint , Ill take the million conscripts, and let em all go home -once theyve dispatched the volunteer and secured us all some booty. Volunteers are operating out of their own volition by definition,, and frankly I dont want to put up with anyone elses motivations. Being a materialist ,,Im not supposed to care why they do as theyve been told, just that they do it. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by Stosh

[Nungali]

see, I just knew there are english words to describe what can be regularly observed when you read or listen how people communicate

 

 

they don't

 

 

always ....

 

I'll grab that tongue of yours with a pair of chopsticks !   

 

Wait ...  why are they called chop sticks ?   Its impossible to chop with them  -  grabsticks , that's what they should have called them. 

[Nungali]

That's for DH :-) I'm not an empiricist/materialist. For an objectivist 'past lives' are very easy to refute, regardless of any 'evidence'. It doesn't stand up to any logical reasoned scrutiny starting from the basic axioms. Existence has primacy over consciousness. Existence exists and consciousness must be conscious of some-thing. Therefore everything has a seperate identity, including consciousness. The only 'past life' is biological or material. Everything is made of something else and of course parents hand down chunks of biological identity to their children.

 

 " Everything is made of something else  "   ....    ?  

 

 

More T-shirt material that one !   

 

 

 

However, children are born tabula rasa. Everything they learn is in this life, therefore even should you posit that some semblance of some previous human being existed as a hidden memory, it would be over written completely from the beginning of life. Past life is just another projection of the primacy of consciousness. It is mysticism worthy of very ancient pagan societies and should be seen as ridiculous as chariots pulling the sun across the sky. It's nice to imagine these things, make stories out of them, but they aren't reality.

 

 

Ridiculous  ...........  nowadays we all know the Sun uses a segway .