Nungali

Disappearing threads ?

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The threads concerning the recent events involving the Mo Pai and More Pie factions on the forum have been locked. The Mo Pai faction has been banned from the forum and although a Moderation Log has been opened for this it also is locked.

 

We appear to have had a "Night of the Long Knives" and I for one await an explanation.

 

I believe it's the MoPai's faction's enemies who have been banned (not without justification, one must admit).

Edited by soaring crane
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I believe it's the MoPai's faction's enemies who have been banned (not without justification, one must admit).

 

Of the two western Mo Pai factions on the forum one has now been banned. My own view when choosing between the two was very much a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. The deep blue sea has now gone and we are left with the devil.

 

This is a devil that Dao Bums Admin has obviously chosen to sup with and we can but hope that he is using a very long spoon.

 

It is interesting that apart from wells the More Pai Gang has been pretty much absent from the forum since the banning of their rival school. It would be interesting to know what is going on behind the scenes. Is this a conspiracy between the More Pie Gang and Admin or is it simply an attempt at appeasement? How is it connected with the removal of Brian, Soaring Crane and myself and our replacement with a new Mod Team?

 

I have my doubts that we will ever learn the truth in this matter but of one thing we can be certain - the present lull in the Mo Pai debate will not last overlong.

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Take my word for it... The 'legit' thread (along with the diverged Welcome thread) is in the abyss (only viewable by mods/admins).

 

On the 'legit' thread, there were TDB members' real names being revealed, which has been rightfully reported to the moderating team. This information was quickly disseminated over the remainder of that fast moving thread by further posts quoting and referring to it. After agonizing over the problem for awhile, I decided that all I could do was to hide the most directly revealing posts, knowing that I hadn't done a really thorough job, as doing so indeed would have required getting rid of the whole later part of the thread.

 

Not to mention all the fierce accusations, insults and mockery that you wouldn't expect to see on a forum dedicated to spiritual philosophies. The battle drew a lot of attention, the moderating team was being swayed with reports, and some clear actions had to be taken in order to appease the situation before folks would have started opening bets. It is not always possible to avoid a tough decision - as you are certainly aware.

 

My interventions were mere reactions to obvious violations of sensible forum rules, and in no way dependent on who committed the latter. And I don't see that any member of the moderating team would have acted differently.

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This answers concerns raised only partially and still leaves the elephant in the room.

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We appear to have had a "Night of the Long Knives" and I for one await an explanation.

 

You'll have to wait some more...  just back from two weeks of vacation to the final puzzle pieces filled in on the issue.

 

Members know about 60%; Mods about 85%; Admins 100% of the issues... and there hopefully, obvious reasons for that.  And I will decide what parts I can share without giving away all the puzzle pieces.

 

Each sock puppet gets harder and harder to verify because they likely learn where they went wrong.   This one took me about 2 years of tracking to finally find enough evidence.

 

I had the benefit of when I first started the venerable BKA was tech and did a history dump of issues to me which I am forever grateful.  I also read all the past threads (public, hidden, and in staff areas) to see all the sides.   As well, I will once in a while talk with the past admins (including Sean) as needed.  This was done a few times over even the last few months.

 

Regardless, there were productive posts in that thread from various members who aren't (always) involved in the dramtics. Those posts are now gone, too.

 

Mo Pai threads may of lost productive discussion around 2012.    There is a past thread in 2011 of a member begging the moderating staff to "Pit" a Mo Pai thread as always the same arguments... here we are 5 years later with the same 'discussion' points :)

 

Of the two western Mo Pai factions on the forum one has now been banned. My own view when choosing between the two was very much a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. The deep blue sea has now gone and we are left with the devil.

 

This is a devil that Dao Bums Admin has obviously chosen to sup with and we can but hope that he is using a very long spoon.

 

It is one thing for members to present the "us vs them" but as staff it is important to not make these kinds of distinctions.  Everyone is a member and the only groups I see are based on posting behavior.   Yes, certain topics seem to attract certain posting behavior but we would do better to treat everyone as a member.

 

It is interesting that apart from wells the More Pai Gang has been pretty much absent from the forum since the banning of their rival school. It would be interesting to know what is going on behind the scenes.

 

If only one member has remained active, what does that have to do with behind the scenes. He has redirected his interests a few times to 'turning the light' and even Buddhist topics.  I would guess that is why he remains posting.

 

Is this a conspiracy between the More Pie Gang and Admin or is it simply an attempt at appeasement?

 

These seem like strange questions, particularly from staff.  And better in PM but there is no answer to except to treat members as members.

 

How is it connected with the removal of Brian, Soaring Crane and myself and our replacement with a new Mod Team?

 

Brian came on as a Tech but was not really used completely in that capacity. And he was honest at the start about whether some would view his staff position as biased on some issues.   So we had agreements he could stay out of decisions, etc.

 

When the Mo Pai stuff arose, I decided it was better he took the break from staff so no bias accusations arose.    He was told all this.  And I told him I'd like to see him back in tech stuff if the need arose but that would be his to decide on if it ever occurred.

 

And Zero is the one who has mentioned a few times in the last six months that a staff rotation seemed useful...  the Mo Pai stuff showed that it was time to get everyone a break as the "we vs them" feelings seemed to be everywhere, including staff.

 

The current staff has likewise told me of their willingness to do what.   So I work with that.  And I want to see how we can make the Owner's Permissions more widely used so that self-moderation becomes the norm and staff moderation as less... 

 

Here is to a New Year's Resolution attempt :)

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On the 'legit' thread, there were TDB members' real names being revealed, which has been rightfully reported to the moderating team.

 

14 reports... the new team had a crash course in "Reports".  I can't recall that many reports in such a short time.

 

Welcome to TDB   :D

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I believe it's the MoPai's faction's enemies who have been banned (not without justification, one must admit).

 

Believe me, there was plenty of justification. You just haven't seen it. But then again, why would you have seen it? You're not the administrator. What gives you the right to state that there was no justification when you have only a limited understanding of what has been going on?

 

This is a devil that Dao Bums Admin has obviously chosen to sup with and we can but hope that he is using a very long spoon.

 

You should be thanking dawei for ridding this community of two well-known scammers. Not accusing him of some ridiculous conspiracy with MPG.  :wacko:

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Believe me, there was plenty of justification. You just haven't seen it. But then again, why would you have seen it? You're not the administrator. What gives you the right to state that there was no justification when you have only a limited understanding of what has been going on?

 

This smacks very much of the pot calling the kettle black. But you are quite correct I am not the Administrator but I am still allowed to have my own views on these matters.

 

So far as I am concerned Western Mo Pai is a magnet to the most unsavoury of characters and most of the posts by you and yours simply reinforce this view.

You should be thanking dawei for ridding this community of two well-known scammers. Not accusing him of some ridiculous conspiracy with MPG.  :wacko:

 

I have grave doubts regarding the way this matter has been handled but am obviously wasting my time attempting to get to the bottom of the matter. If dawei has rid the community of two undesirables he is to be congratulated. Alas that he has left the job half done.

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I ask myself: Why all the animosity towards the neigongforum group, especially now as we helped to expose two scammers.

As far as I can tell, Ken's behaviour was always 100% correct.

Dayzhaze simply quotes Kosta and Jim and corrects wrong views with that.

So what's the problem.

I come to three conclusions:

1) The "anti-Jim's-teachings-propaganda" of the alleged (!) indonesian Mo Pai members works in giving tdb members a negative opinion towards those who defend Jim's teachings. Of course ignoring the fact, that Jim progressed successfully with training exactly according to his own teachings to the third Level. Therefore everybody believing the "indonesian Mo Pai members" propaganda reacts highly absurd and illogical, simply bowing to assumed authorities without thinking critically.

 

You really need no help to give the Dao Bums a negative opinion of western Mo Pai. Just carry on as you are with your splendid efforts.

2) People always fall for the smiling and nice sociopath who constantly lies to them and exploids (scams) them and always have a distaste for the grim defender of truth who constantly points out in a not so nice fashion the facts which they don't want to hear. Even after matters have been exposed and the truth has been established.

 

"The grim defender of truth" I do hope that you are not painting yourself in this role old boy.

 

"Even after matters have been exposed and the truth has been established." You have certainly convinced yourself and have become a victim of your own propaganda. I have no doubt whatsoever that you are delusional.

3) My often narcissistic behavior creates animosity towards me which people project also at my neigongforum fellows.

Opinions?

narcissistic
 
Having or showing an excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance.
 
You most certainly have a very high opinion of yourself which is not shared by many.

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This smacks very much of the pot calling the kettle black. But you are quite correct I am not the Administrator but I am still allowed to have my own views on these matters.

 

So far as I am concerned Western Mo Pai is a magnet to the most unsavoury of characters and most of the posts by you and yours simply reinforce this view.

 

I have grave doubts regarding the way this matter has been handled but am obviously wasting my time attempting to get to the bottom of the matter. If dawei has rid the community of two undesirables he is to be congratulated. Alas that he has left the job half done.

 

Oh, so now we're being compared to notorious criminals?

 

This guys steals money from people, lies to them, and spreads disinformation in the process. He's a wicked, lying, selfish sociopath who cares only for his own monetary benefit. He'd kill you and harvest your organs if he thought he could get away with it and get good money for them on the black market.

 

Comparing me to this person is completely insane. I know you don't like me and I don't particularly like you either. But I know better than to compare you to a thieving psychopath.

 

I've never robbed anyone. I've never, ever requested money from anyone who has asked for help with Mo Pai. And I'm not a pathological liar like this guy.

 

You most certainly have a very high opinion of yourself which is not shared by many.

 

I think highly of Wells because he's one of the few people I know who shows an interest in what's actually important and who knows how to think critically and with a skeptical yet open mind.

 

Sadly, this seems to be quite rare in today's world.

Edited by KenBrace
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But of course Ken you are quite guilty of being a complete bully, even if only on the written page. My short time on the neigong forum showed up all of your members true colours on that site. MPG decided he didn't like what I had said and group thuggery followed with gibes and insults flying from every direction. Of course Ken you got away with it on there but here.....instant ban, so don't go playing the innocent that you are so wonderful and don't dish out a load of dirt, because you have and will do given the chance. 

 

I went on the neigong site to ask a genuine question about lineage and I just got a load of abuse. Personally I feel we've had enough of Mopai and a lot of time wasted on what has amounted to very little expose of technique and practices other than what I would call very basic neigong beginner level stuff talked about. It has become extremely boring seeing people argue over whether John Chang is genuine, whether he taught anybody and whether anyone really knows anything. There are so many more interesting things to discuss on a Daoist forum IMO, it just takes the members to bring them up. I personally look forward to threads about genuine teachings that can be accessed, one of the reasons why I am here, for I feel I am doing my best to give that even if it is only on a typed message.

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Personally I feel we've had enough of Mopai and a lot of time wasted on what has amounted to very little expose of technique and practices other than what I would call very basic neigong beginner level stuff talked about. 

 

That attitude right there is why you were banned from the Neigong Forum. It had nothing to do with me bullying you.

 

You came to a Mo Pai forum with an anti-mopai attitude. So all it did was cause disruption.

 

What would you do if you started an atheist forum and then some muslim guy pops on and go on about how atheists are ignorant, will go to hell, science is a religion, etc.?

 

That would be considered trolling.

Edited by KenBrace
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That attitude right there is why you were banned from the Neigong Forum. It had nothing to do with me bullying you.

 

You came to a Mo Pai forum with an anti-mopai attitude. So all it did was cause disruption.

 

What would you do if you started an atheist forum and then some muslim guy pops on and go on about how atheists are ignorant, will go to hell, science is a religion, etc.?

 

That would be considered trolling.

 

 

No actually it wouldn't.  Or at least it shouldn't.  Atheists would see it as a chance to argue logically against his point of view.  What would lead to banning would be genuine trolling - that is deliberately taking antagonistic views to cause trouble and disruption and ad hominem attacks.

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Quotes from flowing hand's posts during his short visit to neigongforum:

 

Personally insulting John Chang:

 

Personally insulting MPG:

 
Threatening MPG (obviously to course him):

 

Showing possible signs of serious delusion:

 

etc., the rambling and trolling continued.

 

"Who is without sin among you cast the first stone."

 

No further comment.

:rolleyes:

 

 

I have been washed clean of all sin as must be obvious to all.

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No actually it wouldn't.  Or at least it shouldn't.  Atheists would see it as a chance to argue logically against his point of view.  What would lead to banning would be genuine trolling - that is deliberately taking antagonistic views to cause trouble and disruption and ad hominem attacks.

 

yes, unless the muslim wasn't there for logical debate. 

 

I'd have no problem with a Mo Pai skeptic if they had critical thinking skills and presented logical arguments.

 

But that wasn't the case. It was anit-mopai trolling.

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I'd have no problem with a Mo Pai skeptic if they had critical thinking skills and presented logical arguments.

 

But that wasn't the case. It was anit-mopai trolling.

 

We have to be careful with our choice of words here.

 

In this matter we are not discussing Mo Pai we are discussing Western Mo Pai.

 

When debating Western Mo Pai I have no problem with the practitioner if they possess critical thinking skills and present logical arguments. So far this has not proved to be the case.

 

What we do in fact have is pro Western Mo Pai trolling.

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Moved to the abyss... which I think you are aware of   :)

 

They contain information which includes the reasons for the recent banning as well as many references to member's names.

 

This thread has been reviewed, some hidden content, and put back to the Pit/Chaos.

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You are therefore continously breaking forum rules.

 

If that is indeed the case then I should be dealt with appropriately.

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